ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Reality or Misery?

I love this website, I think it's a great place where Evertonians can post their individual opinions about all things Blue. What I don't love is being called 'miserable' just because I'm not satisfied with the performance against Boro or the ultra-defensive substitutions in the same match. If you thought we were the next best thing to Brazil on Sunday then we'll agree to disagree, but respect the right of other posters to have a different opinion to yours.

Michael himself has come in for some criticism lately for being 'negative' when he's just calling it as he sees it. Me? I want to see us play like we did away to Spurs in August. To be honest, I'll be delighted if we beat Metallist on Thursday night and for once I really won't care how we do it, just so long as we get through to the group stages. But at home to weaker teams in the Premiership? I don't think there's any excuse for the hopeless long ball game or playing with 7 defenders.
Robin Byrne, Dublin, Ireland Posted 01/10/2007 at 18:23:15

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Comments

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Michael Kenrick

Well said, Robin. I can accept people saying they were satisied with that performance; I can also accept people saying they weren't satisfied. I find all reasonably expressed views of interest.

What I can't accept is one group bad-mouthing the other group for having their own opinions about the game itself, and labelling it "misery". What is all that about?

I can only understand it from a school playground persepective, where these people expect us to be rooting for "our team" against all-comers and in the face of all logic and sense. Well guess what, people: we're engaging in reasoned discussion about the merits of our team, our players, our manager. We're not here to slam each other for having differing opinions.

If you can't handle that, is there really any need for you to even get involved?

[Sorry, folks.. dunno why the Comments were turned off on this one. We're having a spot of bother here at ToffeeWeb Towers...]

Anthony Newell
1 Posted 01/10/2007 at 20:36:59

Well said both of you. For Patty Blue, Barks and all the other Moyes apologists out there who will settle for this mind numbing crap with our forwards becoming increasingly marginalised/demoralised, please oh please tell me one thing: do you disagree with the contents of the Telegraph article by Steve Robson or are you just too Moyes blinkered to even read it? If you do disagree let us know why as I for one would be interested to hear it. I suspect the latter. It’s people like you that mean we would have to bump along the bottom of the fucking league table before anything changes for the better or we try and take that next step up and that to me is a fucking sad, miserable and downright depressing prospect more than any moaning bastard on here - End of

Peter Singer
2 Posted 01/10/2007 at 21:21:18

See? Every time somebody starts to make some sense, some very familiar faces turn up and write things like "apologists" and "bitter bastards".

Anthony, ffs can you express your views just once without using the expressions "crap", "dross" or "apologists"? It doesn’t help much in developing what some would call a sensible clash of views, does it?

I’m seriously interested in your opinion but you come out with all guns blazing all the time and that puts me off, and I think I’m not the only one.

Michael, you’re not always helping either. It must be hard to run a website and be a fan at the same time but sometimes your comments only make matters worse.

I don’t want to convince everyone of my truth, I’m happy when people accept the validity of my point.

But then again, I’m easily pleased. :)

Roy coyne
3 Posted 01/10/2007 at 21:56:20

I think the Yobo substitution summed up Mr. Moyes attitude two up at home and he replaces A striker with a defender why not go for goals.

Anthony Newell
4 Posted 01/10/2007 at 22:04:59

Couldn’t agree more Roy and I’m not sure what dumbfounded me more, that, selecting Neville in midfield again or his post-match comments!!! Lets get one thing straight, I’m not on here to curry favour or please anyone Peter, if the guns need to blaze then so be it - it’s been a long time coming. I think it’s necessary for people to start telling it as it is and stop hiding from the unpleasant truth that Moyes is not the man to take us to that next level. The excuses have to stop, wake up smell the coffee, Moyes likes clean sheets and will set up his sides up accordingly. In the meantime our forward line will be rendered as much use as a plastic frying pan

Ray Robinson
5 Posted 01/10/2007 at 22:18:29

I’f like Moyes to be more adventurous at times but shutting up shop against Boro was just about acceptable in my eyes. Ask Martin O’Neill if he is happy tonight after presumably continuing to play an expansive game afainst Spurs. On weak ground here, I know as I didn’t actually see tonight’s match, but you catch my drift?

Brendan McLaughlin
6 Posted 01/10/2007 at 22:01:08

I don’t quite see anything in the Robson article which merits its elevation by some people as the definitive critique of Moyes. As I read it he basically is saying that apart from Arteta (& possibly Pienaar) we lack craft and guile in the middle of the park.

So tell us something we don’t already know?

wes b
7 Posted 01/10/2007 at 22:37:39

I can see why people look at moyes’ shortcomings and are asking for more from which I believe is now a pretty strong team that should have the ability to play football on the ground and attack down the flanks to supply balls to predator strikers ala johnson and yakubu. however moyes has built this team pretty much from scratch so he needs and deserves a chance to manage them and see what they can do. More to the point and this is a serious question to those who want him out, who is there out there that you could see doing a better job and taking us to the "next level" without 1. a lot of money to secure his services which we deff dont have and 2. a lot of money for him to bring in his new faces again which we dont have!! Not to mention the fact that the players clearly respect moyes, so a new face would have to win em over pretty quick or ship them out, you only have to look at the predicaments that spurs ,chelsea and newcastle to an extent have had to face.answers on a postcard please

Peter Singer
8 Posted 01/10/2007 at 22:52:16

Roy, what use for goals if we’re already 2-0 up and have the game wrapped up? You can’t get more than three points out of a game.

What you can get however, is a place to experiment in real conditions with little risk. The purpose of the Yobo substitution was clear for all who weren’t blindfolded: try Baines out as a left winger in a 4-5-1 formation.

Anthony, the problem with your attitude is that nobody will listen to you. You cry wolf all the time so why bother? Do you do it to get it off your chest? It’s fine then, go on. But you’re not going to convince anyone. Moreover, I personally like clean sheets. It’s a matter of taste.

And success is all about clean sheets nowadays, you may not like the idea but it’s how football goes. (Reading scored four on Saturday, ask their fans if they’re happy with it.)

Dave Lynch
9 Posted 01/10/2007 at 23:16:13

Peter.
Why try Baines as a left winger ? The lad is a defender, this just goes to illustrate the Moyes mentality or obsession with playing players out of their natural position.
As a consequence their form and confidence dips. The side becomes disjointed and unbalanced and we go fucking doolally trying to watch the shite that we play.
Neville gets a right earfull from some quarters. But it is not the lads fault, he is a defender. End of.
This manager drives me nuts. PLAY YOUR PLAYERS IN THE POSITIONS THAT THEY ARE MOST COMFORTABLE IN.

Neil McKinney
10 Posted 02/10/2007 at 13:26:26

Dave - I think it’s a little harsh to say that Moyes has an "obsession" with playing players out of position. It is only now that Moyes has enough players anywhere near the right calibre to even play players where he wants to. Previously, many of the decisions to play players out of position were made for him by the lack of fit players.

As on Sunday, with the centre of midfield. Lots of people on here continuing to slag off the central pairing of Neville and Jags, but exactly who else was there? Carsley? Same type of player who also can’t pass a ball.

I agree that Baines is a defender, but you will find many fans who have called for Baines to be tried further up the pitch. So who is right?

I must also disagree with this argument about how many "defensive minded" players were on the pitch at the end of the Boro game. With the exception of the risky Shandy Andy, exactly who was he supposed to bring on that was any more attack minded?

I do think that our performance still left a lot to be desired, but I prefer to take the positives from the game. I think going for more goals at 2-0 is a rediculous strategy, especially considering that we were still looking vulnerable. Well done Pienaar, Arteta, Hibbert (improvement), Lescott and Faddy.

COYB