The Mail Bag
Stubbs ruins our play
Comments (24)
It seems to me that whenever Alan Stubbs is selected, the team's overall play suffers.
The defence is forced to sit deep because his complete lack of pace which has one of two knock on effects: (1) there is too much space between defence and midfield so opposition attackers get too much time and space and routinely cut us to ribbons, as happened last night; or (2) the midfield drops deep, our forwards are isolated and we cant keep possession and we have a 90 minute backs to the wall effort.
Either way our more attacking players suffer. I dont think the Yak would be getting so much stick from the fans if he was playing in a team that was able to keep possession in the opponents half build pressure and create chances. We cant expect Arteta to dominate a game single handedly when he's being overun and doesnt have any options around him. There seems no point in playing Osman at all in such circumstances as he offers nothing to a team thats having to defend.
Although Stubbs plays with his heart every game I dont think he should be such a regular in the team. I think that he appears to have good games because he is a decent defender who puts his body on the line - the problem is that when he plays he has to do this all the time because the team is invariably playing on the back foot and spending most of the time defending not attacking.
Simon Reason, Posted 05/10/2007 at 10:16:11
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Carl Wright
2 Posted 05/10/2007 at 13:58:55
2 Posted 05/10/2007 at 13:58:55
Bit of subject, and i know hes one of our own but....
How Phil Neville manages to command a squad place for England is beyond me. Is he really one of the best 25 players in the country!? He cant hit a blue shirt 90% of the time!!
mrs stubbs
3 Posted 05/10/2007 at 16:08:32
3 Posted 05/10/2007 at 16:08:32
Stubbs does more work than you think mate.He’s on yobo and hibberts back all game.He constanley talking and pushing his team mates todo the right things
Granted he looked abit vunerable last night but he had no protection from midfield.
The midfield should be collecting the ball off the centre backs as we all knowbut it just doesn’t happen,whens the last time we saw our midfield demanding the ball,exactly.
Granted he looked abit vunerable last night but he had no protection from midfield.
The midfield should be collecting the ball off the centre backs as we all knowbut it just doesn’t happen,whens the last time we saw our midfield demanding the ball,exactly.
Adam Baig
4 Posted 05/10/2007 at 16:16:43
4 Posted 05/10/2007 at 16:16:43
Its a valid point. When we bought Baines, I thought we finall had a back four that had the pace to hold a high line and have 50 yards instead of 80 to chip the ball into!Once Stubbs enters the equation, we drop back to the edge of our box and await the onslaught.
Maybe David Weir can drag him up to Rangers and he can be one of the few to play for both Glaswegian teams.
We need to settle the back four by playing Nevill Yobo Lescott and Baines together for as many games as possible, and try to press the game on as much as possible. Perhaps then, our midfield players may get the chance to thread a few passes into the strikers rather than watch the ball as it continually passes over their head
Maybe David Weir can drag him up to Rangers and he can be one of the few to play for both Glaswegian teams.
We need to settle the back four by playing Nevill Yobo Lescott and Baines together for as many games as possible, and try to press the game on as much as possible. Perhaps then, our midfield players may get the chance to thread a few passes into the strikers rather than watch the ball as it continually passes over their head
Jim Hourigan
5 Posted 05/10/2007 at 16:25:15
5 Posted 05/10/2007 at 16:25:15
I agree 100% - he’s a complete liability and let me add a few more points. Firstly heading, gone are the days when he knocked the ball back 25 yds. Now he does well to head it 5yds, often up in the air and always still in the danger zone. Also look how often the ball skims off his head because he can’t jump as high as he used to. Then, again with his heading alone, watch how often he’s beaten when the ball is played in at an angle, crosses, corners, free kicks etc - his only chance is balls played down the middle for him to compete with the attacker and use his weight. When he has to use his ability to jump forwards are able to get in front of him or across him because they are far more mobile.
The second aspect is his desire to play everything 50yds. He seems intent on some wonderful ’pele’ type pass from the back that will somehow create a goal. In reality all he does is give the ball to the opposition or turns it into an ariel challenge that serves no purpose at all and we lose the ball.
Stubbs may have been a decent servant and the fact he’s ’one of us’ should not be allowed to cover the fact that he’s past it. Too slow, can’t jump, blames everybody else, gives the ball away constantly but most importantly is just not mobile and alert enough for football today.
The second aspect is his desire to play everything 50yds. He seems intent on some wonderful ’pele’ type pass from the back that will somehow create a goal. In reality all he does is give the ball to the opposition or turns it into an ariel challenge that serves no purpose at all and we lose the ball.
Stubbs may have been a decent servant and the fact he’s ’one of us’ should not be allowed to cover the fact that he’s past it. Too slow, can’t jump, blames everybody else, gives the ball away constantly but most importantly is just not mobile and alert enough for football today.
Russell Shoult
6 Posted 05/10/2007 at 16:43:31
6 Posted 05/10/2007 at 16:43:31
Again i agree. Great servant for the club and great to have a guy whos blood runs blue, a rarity in todays modern game but i think time is up for Stubbsy. I think he still thinks Big Dunc is up there battering defenders to get to the ball as his first instinct is to belt the ball upfield rather than play it to our midfield. Most worrying thing about the Metalist game for me was how dejected Arteta and Pienaar looked as the ball was booted over there heads time and time again yesterday. Stubbs does nothing to help this. We can play football we saw that against, for example, Tottenham earlier in the season. Stubbs has gotta go im afraid. Disappointing that £20 million spent in the summer didnt secure a back up to Lescott and Yobo who must surely be our first team pairing.
Jay Campbell
7 Posted 05/10/2007 at 16:49:59
7 Posted 05/10/2007 at 16:49:59
He’s sh*te!!!! He’s finished, way past his best and he shouldn’t even be in the squad!!! He’s slow as f*ck and iz about 50 so again questions have to be raised about Moyes eyesight!!!
Simon Reason
8 Posted 05/10/2007 at 16:59:04
8 Posted 05/10/2007 at 16:59:04
Russell - I think Jags is the back up bought in for Lescott and Yobo. I hope so after watching his performances so far in midfield...
Ray Robinson
9 Posted 05/10/2007 at 17:23:16
9 Posted 05/10/2007 at 17:23:16
I agree with most of the comments about Stubbs but he does bring something that is lacking - experience. It’s no coincidence that we won the three games he has played, two of them with clean sheets but we do defend too deep when he’s in the side.
James Bernard
10 Posted 05/10/2007 at 17:32:20
10 Posted 05/10/2007 at 17:32:20
True Ray, Stubbs may be old but he certainly brings that something into the team. When he paired up with Lescott at CB they were quite a force.
Alex Quigley
11 Posted 05/10/2007 at 17:23:51
11 Posted 05/10/2007 at 17:23:51
100% agree that our greatest liability is Alan Stubbs. Its a more subtlely damaging effect that Hibbert or Neville not being able to pass a ball; but the point about the gap between our midfield and defense is spot on, as is the fact that we play far too deep when Stubbs is on due to his lack of pace. it kills Moyes entire tactical plan of tight midfield and defensive unit.
I love the guy; he loves the club and that means a lot to me, but he needs to go. A good friend of mine is a big Sunderland fan and he couldnt believe how bad Stubbs was when he signed for them. No pace, poor in the air, blasted clearances masking themselves as passes, even comical own goals! He couldnt believe that he came back to Everton and we kept clean sheets. Now, any Blue will know that moyes defend as a team, cram the midfield and scrape the win tactics of the past (well, im being wishful!) does get results and has masked Stubbs many shortfalls.
The only reason I’d have him on the pitch is to keep Yobo awake (sometimes Yobo has ’Rio-style’ lack of concentration issues that blight his game..far too regularly lately).
What to do? Put Stubbs firmly at the back of the squad (his true blue attitube is valuable for squad unity), make Lescott captain, get him to sort out Yobo, and get ourselves another Lescott-style buy of a young English talent...before Spurs ruin the lot of ’em! Job done.
By the way, after winning last night our season is setting up nicely, bring Cahill, Vaughn back, buy one or two in jan and who knows!!!
I love the guy; he loves the club and that means a lot to me, but he needs to go. A good friend of mine is a big Sunderland fan and he couldnt believe how bad Stubbs was when he signed for them. No pace, poor in the air, blasted clearances masking themselves as passes, even comical own goals! He couldnt believe that he came back to Everton and we kept clean sheets. Now, any Blue will know that moyes defend as a team, cram the midfield and scrape the win tactics of the past (well, im being wishful!) does get results and has masked Stubbs many shortfalls.
The only reason I’d have him on the pitch is to keep Yobo awake (sometimes Yobo has ’Rio-style’ lack of concentration issues that blight his game..far too regularly lately).
What to do? Put Stubbs firmly at the back of the squad (his true blue attitube is valuable for squad unity), make Lescott captain, get him to sort out Yobo, and get ourselves another Lescott-style buy of a young English talent...before Spurs ruin the lot of ’em! Job done.
By the way, after winning last night our season is setting up nicely, bring Cahill, Vaughn back, buy one or two in jan and who knows!!!
James Elworthy
12 Posted 05/10/2007 at 17:47:41
12 Posted 05/10/2007 at 17:47:41
I said all summer we need another centre back, Stubbs has a year left, Yobo is going to the ANC, either move Jags there or buy a good young one in January
Al Dugan
13 Posted 05/10/2007 at 18:27:13
13 Posted 05/10/2007 at 18:27:13
And Stubbs’ replacement is who exactly? I can’t tell you how many times folks post on these boards and complain without a solution...What to do? Here is one from the last post: Put Stubbs firmly at the back of the squad (his true blue attitube is valuable for squad unity), make Lescott captain, get him to sort out Yobo, and get ourselves another Lescott-style buy of a young English talent...before Spurs ruin the lot of ?em! Job done." Wow, that’s the perfect solution...let me get Moyes on it right away...I’m sure there are 5-6 Lescotts out there that we can pick up for little or no money...and their NAMES are who?
That’s what I mean when I say you have absolutely no clue to what a team is made up of....what it takes to compete...I’m glad you took the advice of a Sunderland supporter because they have had so much success in the last few years that they know good football when they see it....
Did you like the free that Alan scored a couple of weeks back? You probably hated it because it deosn’t validate your point...Here’s a guy who lives and dies with us, and you want to run him out..I’ll take 15 Alan Stubbs on my squad every day...play with heart, soul desire, and a love for the shirt...
That’s what I mean when I say you have absolutely no clue to what a team is made up of....what it takes to compete...I’m glad you took the advice of a Sunderland supporter because they have had so much success in the last few years that they know good football when they see it....
Did you like the free that Alan scored a couple of weeks back? You probably hated it because it deosn’t validate your point...Here’s a guy who lives and dies with us, and you want to run him out..I’ll take 15 Alan Stubbs on my squad every day...play with heart, soul desire, and a love for the shirt...
Ed
14 Posted 05/10/2007 at 18:15:43
14 Posted 05/10/2007 at 18:15:43
Stubbs is a good organiser the problem is when he plays we defend deeper, therefore leaving large gaps between the midfield and the forwards. (Moyes loves him, Neville, Carsley et al because he is fundementally a cautious manager). This leads to a negative style of play.
There is nothing wrong with Yobo when we defend higher up the pitch (he is quick) and it is a travesty to play Lescott at left back (with Baines on the bench!). We must become more foward thinking and god help us attractive to watch!
As for Stubbs the great Blue I dont buy any bullshit like that anymore.(remember Sunderland and his choice words about the club and his encouraging words to Rooney to join Man U) All footballers are the same its a job to them and I can accept that so lets stop treating them like ’one of us’. When Alan, Wayne, Jeffers and the rest of the those true blue scousers make the trek to places like Kharkiv as a supporter then they will be one of us.
There is nothing wrong with Yobo when we defend higher up the pitch (he is quick) and it is a travesty to play Lescott at left back (with Baines on the bench!). We must become more foward thinking and god help us attractive to watch!
As for Stubbs the great Blue I dont buy any bullshit like that anymore.(remember Sunderland and his choice words about the club and his encouraging words to Rooney to join Man U) All footballers are the same its a job to them and I can accept that so lets stop treating them like ’one of us’. When Alan, Wayne, Jeffers and the rest of the those true blue scousers make the trek to places like Kharkiv as a supporter then they will be one of us.
Tony Marsh
15 Posted 05/10/2007 at 18:43:42
15 Posted 05/10/2007 at 18:43:42
Utter Bollocks.Take alook at Moyess
tactics before your slag off the players.
tactics before your slag off the players.
Aidan Wade
16 Posted 05/10/2007 at 18:45:37
16 Posted 05/10/2007 at 18:45:37
Whatever about our general play, we are more solid in defence with Stubbs than without. He controls the backline and keeps Yobo aware of the dangers.
He’s not going to play it out of the defence, but I prefer him to clear the lines than fuck about.
He’s not going to play it out of the defence, but I prefer him to clear the lines than fuck about.
John Talbot
17 Posted 05/10/2007 at 18:40:14
17 Posted 05/10/2007 at 18:40:14
Our problem last night was not at the back, that defence has played together on a number of occations. The problem was in the centre of midfield with Jags and Ossy.Have they played together no should they play together NO. Don’t go having a go at Stubbsy he always talking to the other players at the back. I wait every game for Yobo’s mistake it usually costs us a goal Did you all watch the Bro game no Yobo Clean sheet I rest my case
Al Dugan
18 Posted 05/10/2007 at 19:13:56
18 Posted 05/10/2007 at 19:13:56
Tony...and Moyes tactics have what to do with this discussion...please enlighten me oh football genius....When did you get you badges, Tony?
Like I said, just keep making inane comments that you couldn’t back up if your life depended on it, and we’ll all be fine...
These three in a row have really sent poorTony over the edge...he can’t wait for Sunday because he figures we will get run out of St. James. And then he will be validated.
Like I said, just keep making inane comments that you couldn’t back up if your life depended on it, and we’ll all be fine...
These three in a row have really sent poorTony over the edge...he can’t wait for Sunday because he figures we will get run out of St. James. And then he will be validated.
DJ
19 Posted 05/10/2007 at 19:13:03
19 Posted 05/10/2007 at 19:13:03
Tony Marsh & John Talbot you pair speak BOLLOCKS, "talking to the players at the back" is that gona stop a player getting past you, utter shit, a defenders job is to defend not just shout your mouth off.
James Elworthy
20 Posted 05/10/2007 at 19:46:08
20 Posted 05/10/2007 at 19:46:08
To Al Dugan
Replacement for Stubbs:Long term: Jack Rodwell, perhaps John O’Shea would be available in January or perhaps he will give Jagielka a chance
I am sure Moyes and his scouts know of a few names we are not aware of in the Championship or playing in Europe also.
Replacement for Stubbs:Long term: Jack Rodwell, perhaps John O’Shea would be available in January or perhaps he will give Jagielka a chance
I am sure Moyes and his scouts know of a few names we are not aware of in the Championship or playing in Europe also.
Dutch Schaffaer
21 Posted 05/10/2007 at 21:41:57
21 Posted 05/10/2007 at 21:41:57
Is it coincedence that Stubbs comes back into the team and Everton manage their first two clean sheets of the season.
Stubbs did ok last night, it was Yobo who was shite.
Stubbs did ok last night, it was Yobo who was shite.
Simon Readon
22 Posted 05/10/2007 at 21:51:28
22 Posted 05/10/2007 at 21:51:28
How can anyone use the Boro clean sheet as a vindication of the players involved? We were taken apart in the first half and should have conceded three goals - very similar to the Metalist game.
And for everyone who has come on here to defend Stubbs I’m not saying he is a bad player or doesnt bring anything to the team - however his lack of pace makes the defence too deep and constantly puts us on the back foot
And for everyone who has come on here to defend Stubbs I’m not saying he is a bad player or doesnt bring anything to the team - however his lack of pace makes the defence too deep and constantly puts us on the back foot
Danny Jones
23 Posted 06/10/2007 at 01:42:46
23 Posted 06/10/2007 at 01:42:46
Yobo was the player who was shite last night, I think he is still valuable to us because Lescott and Yobo don’t seem to be able to play together at centre back without having concentration lapses, we look alot more secure with Stubbs playing. As for last night we may have been defending deep but apart from Yobo’s positional mistakes Jagielka didn’t have a clue what he was doing, if Carsley would have played I have no doubt we wouldn’t have been as exposed.
Al Dugan
24 Posted 06/10/2007 at 02:12:07
24 Posted 06/10/2007 at 02:12:07
Simon...but we didnt concede three goals against Boro did we...I think the score was 2-0...Would you have been happier if we had conceded 3? Would that have been okay then, because your theory would have been correct?
At least someone mentioned a player or two who would be realistic transfer targets....
At least someone mentioned a player or two who would be realistic transfer targets....
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1 Posted 05/10/2007 at 14:46:42