ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

Ray Robinson
1 Posted 09/10/2007 at 21:58:20

Trevor - I like Moyes - his passion, his integrity and I respect his chievements. I desperately want to see him succeed but I am increasingly frustrated at his seeming inability to get the most out of his players. This used to be his strength but the football that is being churned out at the moment is regularly dire. Beattie, Johnson and Yakubu all look poor strikers - it can’t be a coincidence can it? We all know the midfield needs shoring up. My criticism of Moyes is that he reacts to the obvious far too late. We still have Hibbert at right back for God’s sake,

I really do hope things change for the better with him in charge. I’m not calling for his head just yet but I really do want to see the side play to its obvious potential more often. If not, I’ll believe reluctantly that he has taken us as faras he will be able to.

David Barks
2 Posted 09/10/2007 at 22:28:47

Oh, the seasons over, we lost away to Newcastle after 3 successive wins. It’s all over, game over man, game over. Oh, we’re only 2 points behind Chelsea in 6th, you don’t say. So we haven’t even kicked a ball in the group stages of Europe and we’ve already lost, in your eyes. You people are hilarious except that at the same time it’s pathetic. We have been without what would be our two starting central midfielders, but that shouldn’t effect anything now should it. No, every player on the team should be just as good as the next. Chelsea didn’t miss Lampard and Drogba being out did they. And United were just fantastic wihtout Ronaldo in their side. Why shouldn’t we be top of the league and undefeated, nil satis nisi optimum and all that!!!!!!!!!!

Ray Robinson
3 Posted 09/10/2007 at 22:50:13

David Barks, you’re putting words in my mouth or at least trying to explain how I apparently feel. I don’t think the season is over, far from it - I’m actually quite optimistic. If you’d just step back and think about what I’m saying, it’s that injuries notwithstanding, Moyes is not getting the best out of his players any more. I don’t expect us to win the League or play with the artistry of Arsenal, but I do expect the players to play joined up football (you know, pass), and for the forwards to be given the opportunity to shine. I’m sorry but team selection, tactics and substitutions are down to one man and he needs to keep learning - quickly. Football has moved on in the last 5 years - Moyes looks like he’ sstuck in a time warp sometimes.

David Barks
4 Posted 09/10/2007 at 23:10:43

Ray,

I had not even read your comments. My post was in response to the first post by Trevor. I didn’t mention your name, didn’t quote anything from your post, I don’t know why you think I’m putting words in your mouth.

Ray Robinson
5 Posted 09/10/2007 at 23:15:02

David - my apologies

David Barks
6 Posted 09/10/2007 at 23:18:33

No problem Ray. For the record, after reading your comments I can agree with some of it. But I don’t think that AJ turned into a terrible striker. He missed two penalties, you can’t blame Moyes for that. In the games before that he has had a couple cleared off of the line, has been crowded out by defenders, but the delivery had been quite bad which goes to your point. And when he came on against Newcastle he looked like his old self, was keeping possession, threatening the defense, then got the goal from the very good cross by Baines. Which brings me to another point. Where was Baines in the first half. I’m so use to him getting up the wing, but in the first half he was nowhere to be seen. Then to start the second half he suddenly starts taking the ball and assisting the forward players. The sad thing about Sunday is that I think we were actually playing some good football in the second half, created some good chances that Anichebe just stalled on, and I really thought we would get the win. Then our woeful defending pops up, and yes that does go to Moyes in training, and we lose the damn game. But that’s football, anything can happen.

Steve Ryan
7 Posted 09/10/2007 at 23:34:43

David, in response to your comment about Baines, he was clearly under instruction from Moyes to curb his natural instincts and not to advance beyond the half way line in the first half. The minute we went one down he started to progress up the field to assist the forwards and consequently, we looked a differnt team. Then, as soon as we equalised, he once more stayed deep. This is how our Manager plays the game; avoid defeat and dont take the initiative.

David Barks
8 Posted 09/10/2007 at 23:51:42

Come on Steve, Moyes has spoken greatly about Baines ability to get forward and the need for him to do that. He wasn’t "clearly" under orders to hold back. He wasn’t able to get involved in the first half because we didn’t hold possession long enough for him to get up the wing. When AJ came on he held possession up for the midfield to get forward, which allowed Baines to get down the sideline. McFadden would receive the ball and either lose it, or just go forward with it without waiting for support.

John Pickles
9 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:22:59

The problem is David that we NEVER hold possession long enough. The players are forever twatting the ball up the field to absolutely nobody. Now either the defence can’t pass, to which a strategy where midfield players allow an easy pass to them is produced, or the defence can pass and therefore are disiplined to pass more accurately, without that it dosn’t matter if we have strikers worth £20 million or £20, your strikers score goals by finishing off quality balls into the box, not chasing aimless punts down the wings. Metalisk proved you need disipline and training not multi-million pound players to pass accurately, if they (and Blackburn) hadn’t sat back every time they scored they could have thrashed us.

Rob Jones
10 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:49:35

trevor, i agree about us being over expectant but i think the seasons far from over, i’ve even gone as far as putting a bet on us qualifying for uefa next season and on us reaching the semis, always look on the bright side of life (whistle)

David Barks
11 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:55:00

But it is the job of any good forward to hold up the ball for the rest of the players to catch up. Drogba does this, Schevchenko is horrible at it. Adebayor does this, and Smith did it very well on Sunday. After watching the game on Sunday I think the defense might just punt the ball forward because so ofter when they do play it short the forward just gives up possession, putting pressure right back on the defense. That is why we need another ball player in the middle (Gravesen) to team with Arteta in distributing the ball instead of relying on the forwards so much, since they are not doing it well enough. I believe that this is why Yakubu was brought in, for his strength to hold up play, but it is just not working at the moment because our central midfield is not good enough. Vaughan was great at this at the end of last season, with Arteta and Fernandes to play it to.

Roy coyne
12 Posted 10/10/2007 at 01:58:13

Its all those at toffeeweb towers imagine expecting our boys to be able to pass the ball

Nick Xenos
13 Posted 10/10/2007 at 01:54:51

I think that part of the reason why we are conceding so many goals is that our midfield sits so far back, that they are almost as one with the defence, thus inviting more pressure onto ourselves. When going forward, our only outlets are to pump it long to the forwards or look for Arteta and Piennar. What happens on the rare occasion when the pass is accurate and they gain possession....total isolation, no support. This is what was happening in the 1st half against Newcastle, Metalist, and many other games. You just know it’s only a matter of time before we concede. When Moyes sets the team out to play cautiously, we get punished because our attacking outlets have no support. Moyes, lets start our games as if we are 1-0 down...don’t inhibit our play!

Michael Dillon
14 Posted 10/10/2007 at 03:57:07

Relax guys. Relax. Why don’t we all just sit back. Relax. Support Everton when they win. Support them when they lose. Support them when they draw.

I thought that’s what real supporters are for... Isn’t it?

Nick Xenos
15 Posted 10/10/2007 at 04:48:31

Michael, how can you just sit back and relax when the team you love so much is playing embarrassingly poor football, and you know that they could be doing much better. I can go on and on...but one thing I can’t do is relax! :-)

Paul Mackay
16 Posted 10/10/2007 at 05:08:28

I blame gazza.

Mick Gillian
17 Posted 10/10/2007 at 04:04:49

I have been a season ticket holder at our beloved blues for over 20 years; I was there in the 80s to watch the last Everton side who played true football the way it should be played.

We all adhere and dream that our side could play like Arsenal do now, and have done for the last 10 years... some may say it is impossible to achieve, but look at Man City, many people's outside tip for the drop this season. I know they have spent but with the right coaches there they have been superb and also play great football as well.

Now correct me if I am wrong but as a season ticket holder we love grit, heart and battle at Everton... but enough is enough, we have overdosed on this now. Everton fan's will be happy as long as a player give's 110%, how many times have you heard that over the year's?... What shite, how the fan's standard's have dropped if this is the case.

If city can do it, so can we, but under the current coaching regime i know it won't happen....bring back the flair, bring back the ball on the floor, bring back the football. I write in vague hope and total despair

Mick Gillian
18 Posted 10/10/2007 at 04:04:49

I have been a season ticket holder at our beloved blues for over 20 years; I was there in the 80s to watch the last Everton side who played true football the way it should be played.

We all adhere and dream that our side could play like Arsenal do now, and have done for the last 10 years... some may say it is impossible to achieve, but look at Man City, many people's outside tip for the drop this season. I know they have spent but with the right coaches there they have been superb and also play great football as well.

Now correct me if I am wrong but as a season ticket holder we love grit, heart and battle at Everton... but enough is enough, we have overdosed on this now. Everton fan's will be happy as long as a player give's 110%, how many times have you heard that over the year's?... What shite, how the fan's standard's have dropped if this is the case.

If City can do it, so can we, but under the current coaching regime i know it won't happen....bring back the flair, bring back the ball on the floor, bring back the football. I write in vague hope and total despair...

Michael Dillon
19 Posted 10/10/2007 at 08:29:53

Ok Nick. Got your point. Maybe I’ll rephrase that about the relaxing part.

But I still think we should 100% support Everton no matter what.

The positive thing about this is, the season is still young. Time is on our side. Remember Walter Smith’s Days? And other managers before Moyes? Every season we worry about Everton being relegated. But this time round, we are looking good. Have faith in the boys.

Richard Dodd
20 Posted 10/10/2007 at 08:29:01

Truth to tell,there’s no need to blame anyone at present.The team’s doing pretty well.Still going great in Europe and the Carling and only a handful of points off the ’big boys.’The Board are doing wonders to find the finance for team buiding and a new stadium and the ’feel good factor’is at its highest for years.
If there was election tomorrow, Blue Bill and Davey would get back with a huge majority!

Randy Mathis
21 Posted 10/10/2007 at 11:48:04

I thought initially after the first few games especially the tottenham game that we had the potential to do something. I never agreed with the best side for twenty years side of it. The teams of 89-90 and 95-96 were just as good i felt. people are not happy because after some 15 years of slumber we got a good young manager and achieved some damn good positions. Now its now looking so rosy at the school of science and everybodys high expectations is looking rather flawed questions are being asked. In all honesty when we finished fourth i never expected to go on to better things or challenge for the title. But was pleasantly surprised when we finished sixth again. If we can get out of this uefa group and maybe reach a cup final (league cup most likely) i will be satisfied. Lets not go expecting more than we can hope for.

Richard Dodd
22 Posted 10/10/2007 at 12:24:50

My thoughts exactly,Randy.I know that our revered Chairman thinks the same.’We EXPECT (and budget to finish tenth but HOPE to do better’,he always says.
’So far Davey is on the credit side of our expectations’

Nick Wall
23 Posted 10/10/2007 at 12:58:30

How many more daft threads like this do we have to put up with ?

Everton are still in every competition. There’s no reason why we can’t progress some way further in Europe yet, and finish in the top 6 in the league. That’s a very real achievement given that we don’t have the resources to sign up 20 top international players and pay them sky high wages. Who said we had to get into the top 4 ? We all hope to see it, but wishing it isn’t going to make it happen, we have to start from where we’re at, and that is one of several improving teams capable of challenging for a top 6 place.

Defence is a little ropey at the moment, and we’re not playing as well as we can by our own high standards, but we’re doing ok for now. Will you stop trying to manufacture a crisis when there isn’t one. Some players need to improve and they know who they are, but this talk of scapegoats is ridiculous - scapegoats for what ??

Monty Freeman
24 Posted 10/10/2007 at 13:26:35

Everton are still in every competition. Lets define that a little. The league title - thats a competiton is it not?. Thats dead in the water. Was never going to happen. As for the rest of them. We have played one or two games in the league cup and the same goes for the uefa. And as for the FA CUP well, that does not concern us until january. so saying we are in that in october is not quite right. The rest of your piece makes sense though, players are not fulfilling their potential or their earning their corn. And yes there is no crisis , not unless they run out of changs at half time.

Tony Williams
25 Posted 10/10/2007 at 13:39:33

Monty I get where you are coming from but don’t you think the moaners would use that as a stick to beat Everton with if they were not still in all the cups, Moyes especially?.

You are deffinitely correct that it’s daft to say it in October but playing Devil’s advocate it is still an achievement for Moyes compared to his woefull other cup records.

He is doing something right, for a change yet suggesting that posters are unable to use it as a plus point for Moyes just simply isn’t fair when you could bet your house that it would have been used against him.