ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

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Pop Quiz

Please someone tell me:

Which Premiership Manager in the last 5 seasons has consistently out-performed David Moyes both in terms of finishing league position and providing 'entertaining football' on an equivalent or smaller budget?

If anyone can provide names that prove Moyes is consistently underperforming his peers then I suggest we return our season tickets in protest, send a polite note to BK, pointing out the obvious, and wait for the new appointment.

Over to you...
Robert Miller, London Posted 09/10/2007 at 23:02:06

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Comments

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David OBrien
1 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:12:39

Arsene Wenger? He may have spent more on individual players (big signings) but with what he has recouped with the sale of them he is I believe in the black. Over to you!!!

David Barks
2 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:15:10

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Arsene Wenger!!!!!!!!! Tell me you were joking with that response. They were just announced as the richest club in England weren’t they? And you find us to be comparable with them.

David OBrien
3 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:16:30

Also Robert you forgot to add the requirement ’and has red hair’ just to make the question even more closed/fusion/blue sky

David OBrien
4 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:20:32

I thought the question was about league performance/spend/entertaining not turnover? Perhaps that should have been added as well as ginger hair/pubes

David Barks
5 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:37:10

No, read it again. "on an equivalent or smaller budget". Arsenal’s turnover suggests quite a bit more of a budget wouldn’t you say.

David OBrien
6 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:42:53

Without wanting to be anal - turnover doesn’t equal profit/ budget. Like I said it’s a closed question. How many teams that play in purple have had a better/worse season with (or without) a similar budget on a tuesday and finished fourth? All teams are different look at Newcastle and say Bolton (Big Sam’s team). Therefore comparison is pointless.

David Barks
7 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:49:14

Sorry, but you are wrong. Turnover allows profit. Your budget is set by your turnover and profit. Wenger has loads of money to spend. He also is at a club with a much better international reputation, a more preferred location of London, and a much better stadium. The question isn’t too closed. In the past 5 years name a manager with a better finishing position, with an equal budget, who plays the style of football opposite that which everyone hates Moyes for playing. People are calling for his head based on style of football now, so this guy is asking for a name of a replacement who has outperformed Moyes over the past 5 seasons with similar finances.

David OBrien
8 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:55:03

Look Dave - it’s 12.50am and we are arguing about turnover. Moyes is OK and I like him most of the time and even more if we beat the shite again at Goodison - my tickets in the bag

David Barks
9 Posted 10/10/2007 at 01:02:01

Good point, enough said on this pretty pointless thread.

Barry Earley
10 Posted 10/10/2007 at 01:35:53

The simple answer is absolutely no one with a similar budget comes near to David Moyes achievements over the past five years. This is why his peers have voted him the best manager in the Premier league TWICE.

Glen Anderson
11 Posted 10/10/2007 at 01:39:02

Sam Allardyce comes close, but then again he’s just Moyes in disguise. Harry Redknapp is trying with Pompey. In short, 3 solid managers doing as best they can on a shoe-string .... whether they’d be any good with loads of money to spend is another matter.

Nick Harrison
12 Posted 10/10/2007 at 01:52:48

If we were playing entertaining football, would everyone settle for mid-table finishes? I’m sorry but my love for Everton makes me overlook the quality of football. I cheer just as loud for the scrappiest of goals as I do the wondergoal. Sure, I might get frustrated if we (Phil Neville) misplaces a pass but I don’t regard that as poor quality football, I regard it as a weakness in an area of ONE of our players’ game. I mean, how much does Goodison come down on players if they try a cheeky flick that doesn’t come off? Is McFadden entertaining? I’d say he has the flair we complain about not having yet whenever he dribbles with the ball and loses it, the crowd metaphorically rapes him.

In keeping with the tradition of the thread: Over to you!

Kieran Doyle
13 Posted 10/10/2007 at 02:41:49

Turnover/Budget/Transfer kitty...call it want you want..Moyes without doubt has no competition when it comes to playest the shittest football in the Premiership. I cant think of a team that plays worse than us...can you? Dress it up how you want..we sometimes get results, sometimes we dont...but one thing is clear we cannot play good football. That is pure & simple down to Moyes. Simple as that. Over to you!

David Barks
14 Posted 10/10/2007 at 04:49:50

Kieran, I’m not going to go too long into responding to your idea that you can’t think of a team that plays worse than us, but have you ever heard of Derby. Come on now, it’s comments like that one that completely ruin any credibility in any future comments you might make.

Kieran Doyle
15 Posted 10/10/2007 at 06:10:20

Derby...play worse football than us...debatable...that could be one. David...last time I looked I could post my opinions as I so wish. So for you to state ..."it?s comments like that one that completely ruin any credibility in any future comments you might make" is completely childish. What are you the "king of comments" all of a sudden? Ive read your posts over the last few months and I ceratinly dont think so but I know that your are entitled to your opinion however much nonsense like that you spout. Grow up.

Nick Xenos
16 Posted 10/10/2007 at 06:53:12

OK, we all know that Moyes has done an incredible job over the last 5 years to steady the ship and have us competing in Europe again. But, due to his success over this time, does that mean that we are indebted to him forever? Should we now rest on our laurels and keep on reminding ourselves about where we were and where we are now? Teams like Man City, Aston Villa, Blackburn, and Portsmouth of whom I think are in direct competition with us for the UEFA spots, seem to have improved alot this season. We seem to have stood still or even lost some ground on these teams. I wonder what the state of affairs would of been like if we didn’t scrape through that 2nd leg in Ukraine as I think UEFA qualification has clouded some of our supporters’ minds.

Nick Xenos
17 Posted 10/10/2007 at 07:23:12

One more thing, I admit that Cahill and Gravesen are huge losses for us but Moyes had money to spend over the summer. OK, he missed out on Fernandes in unfortunate circumstances but he decided to spend 6mill on a young player who he is now finding trouble fitting him into the starting 11. I know, the jury is still out on Jagielka but surely, someone with experience like Vogel would of been priceless right now.

Billy Swanson
18 Posted 10/10/2007 at 09:02:32

Jimmy McCardle of the Dog & Gun in the Liverpool Sunday League Premiership.
Jimmy is on a budget of a tenner a week as half the players dont pay their subs always finishes in the top 5.

Steve Lyth
19 Posted 10/10/2007 at 09:38:35

MarK Hughes, has spent less,has a better squad of players than Moyes and has been in the job for a shorter period.
What do you get for winning ?

Felix Fulcrum
20 Posted 10/10/2007 at 09:54:01

Kieran is a gaylord

patty
21 Posted 10/10/2007 at 10:01:43

Glen - When did Harry Redknapp have to manage on a shoe string - certainly not this year - look at the players he bought during the transfer season - he did that on a shoe string? I thinks not me darlin’

patty
22 Posted 10/10/2007 at 10:17:44

Come to think of it, Sam Alladyce spent plenty of money as well so I don’t think he was on a limited budget neither..think of Alan Smith, Joey Barton etc..etc.

Franny Porter
23 Posted 10/10/2007 at 10:25:49

Its Alan Sugar, on the apprentice isnt it?

it is snt it......

Or maybe Jossy, from Jossys Giants.....

Paul Olsen
24 Posted 10/10/2007 at 11:17:39

Yeah, Mark Hughes. But, no-one can seriously say that Blackburn Rovers play good football.

Just like us, hoofball and thugs that’s Blackburn and Mark Hughes.
I seriously can’t believe anyone critizising our style of play are coming up with Mark Hughes?

Sure, he has done well but Blackburn truly don’t play attractive football.

Val Grainger
25 Posted 10/10/2007 at 11:34:07

If and when Dave goes, either by fault or design we could always see if Ronald McDonald is interested in taking over. A big mop of ginger hair, appearance of a clown and has a scottish name also. If Mr Mcdonald took over for the derby i dare say i would notice the difference. Just hope he keeps the Big Macs and fries away from Gravesen. Thank the lord that rooney is no longer with us.

Mark Stone
26 Posted 10/10/2007 at 11:33:23

I’ve asked this myself before and the only personen is the only person to give a decent answer then is also the only person to give a decent answer this time.

Mark Hughes. Although if you check his record his games/wins/losses/draws isn’t quite as good as Moyeses.

For me I think people want to take the next step up, but we’re not ready yet. We’re not getting into Europe regularly - yet - lets be there or there about for 2/3 years before we start thinking we should be challenging for the top 4.

Moyes isn’t perfect but he’s good and still learning - maybe a more experienced coach would be good for him - someone additional to Irvine who has experience in Europe or something.

Moyes certainly doesn’t deserve the sack though

patty
27 Posted 10/10/2007 at 12:17:15

Why does everyone keep referring to Davey as being Ginger??? He’s not really - more of a strawberry blonde I would have thought. Either way, he’s all right by me.

Steve Lyth
28 Posted 10/10/2007 at 13:00:00

Hiya Stoney how you doin mate ?
Paul Olsen, Blackburn are more than capable of turning in good performances without kicking people, did you see their last two games at Goodison ?
Moyes himself has gone record saying the same, you aint going to disagree with Moyesiah are you Paul ?

Kieran Doyle
29 Posted 10/10/2007 at 13:37:56

Felix’s mum is obviously gutted he was born giving him a name like that. Unlucky pal

Chris Masey
30 Posted 10/10/2007 at 13:37:32

The question can be easily answered on a statistical basis. Simply add up the amount of points gained and divide that by the net transfer fee applicable over the last five seasons. This will provide us with a points to spend ratio, which can then be compared to other managers. I don’t know the answer and I am not prepared to shirk anymore in my office to figure it out, but I do know that during my illustrious economics drinkers degree, I studied football finance (I had to, didn’t I?), and Moyes had the best points to wages ratio of any manager in one of the 03/04/05 seasons. It still doesn’t mean we play good football, but from a purely quantitive point of view, his record is impressive.

David Barks
31 Posted 10/10/2007 at 13:57:51

So Mark Hughes is the response coming out eh. Well lets just see here. Blackburn are a very good side, but play very similar to us. Also, everyone was up in arms about Moyes making Everton the laughing stock of Europe for getting knocked out of Europe at the first hurdle. But Blackburn just did the same thing as us two years ago, so why doesn’t the same criticism go to Mark Hughes. I think he is a very good manager, but I’d rather have a couple of his players, Bentley and Gamst Pederson.

DJ
32 Posted 10/10/2007 at 14:06:24

Have Blackburn finished above us in 5yrs? I dont think so.

Neil McKinney
33 Posted 10/10/2007 at 13:50:19

One thing that I would not be pleased about would be a situation like Fulham. You could argue many of the same points about Chris Coleman and the pathetic amount of money that he was afforded by his board (especially after the free reign that they gave Tigana). He did ok with what he had to work with then got the sack because he couldn’t take them to the next level. I know it’s early days yet, but I don’t see Fulham getting anywhere near the next level in the next few seasons.

Moving to the next level is one thing, but everybody knows that new managers require investment and time. However, I do agree that if the club treads water for a number of seasons then at some point a risk must be taken. I just don’t think things are that bad at this moment in time.

Al Dugan
34 Posted 10/10/2007 at 22:37:18

One more thing to consider here is when you swap managers you tend to go backwards for a little while...I can’t remember a team that went forward right off with a new manager after having the same manager for a long period of time (over 4 years). Moyes did it with us, but if we had gone any further backwardswe would have been with Tranmere.