The Mail Bag
Progress is relative
Comments (22)
So we lose a game because yet another referee is in love with The Big Four and our manager and players are all crap? Well,that`s nothing new ? it's the response we get in these columns everytime Everton lose.
So let's just imagine that Everton finish in 10th position this season and every succeeding one for the next five years (the length of the manager`s new contract). Would that be so terrible?
Of course not. Just do the sums to find our average finishing spot for every five years since the time we were Champions and you'll discover how magnificent that would be. Bill and the Board see this ? why can't the fans?
Richard Dodd, Posted 20/10/2007 at 20:00:54
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
oliver reed
1 Posted 20/10/2007 at 22:40:52
1 Posted 20/10/2007 at 22:40:52
this post is pure cock! show some spirit will you man! The team selection today was fuckin jarg. the ref was bent, but the real concern is moyes and his mickey mouse tactics!
get loose brother.....
get loose brother.....
Brian Waring
2 Posted 20/10/2007 at 22:54:09
2 Posted 20/10/2007 at 22:54:09
Oliver spot on man.People will blame the ref etc.But no-one will question Moyes’ tactics.
glen strachan
3 Posted 20/10/2007 at 22:59:01
3 Posted 20/10/2007 at 22:59:01
Interesting range of views on the site today.
Did anybody else feel that is the worst display that they have ever seen from a Liverpool team?
The only reason that they won this game was that they wanted it more...........they scored against themselves and fought back as we disappeared.
Mr Dodd............you might be right about David Moyes in that he is a polite man who wore a nice suit and he has made himself the highest paid manager in Everton’s history with the most expensive car.
Good for David - never give the suckers who run Everton an even break .
Money for nothing and your Kicks for free eh ?
After his days as a trainee at Celtic , David has never won anything in football and of course that will continue but we should get behind him.
He lacks the experience of managing a top side or playing in one (since the Celtic of his teenage years) and maybe if Everton is relegated under Davie , we will see the best of him in the divisions that he knows better.
If you want to reply to this I ask just one thing. Do not start to speak about the next two games when we have to play against the mighty Larissa and then the great Derby County.......surely two of the best teams in Europe and if we do slip further down the league we will still be outside the drop zone.
The joke of all this is that Liverpool will not win anything this season either and Benitez will likely be sacked but David Moyes could be at Goodsion for ever.
I presume , Richard that you do not remember the good times when we won things and I suppose mediocrity is fine for you.
I am happy that you are happier than I am about that !
Did anybody else feel that is the worst display that they have ever seen from a Liverpool team?
The only reason that they won this game was that they wanted it more...........they scored against themselves and fought back as we disappeared.
Mr Dodd............you might be right about David Moyes in that he is a polite man who wore a nice suit and he has made himself the highest paid manager in Everton’s history with the most expensive car.
Good for David - never give the suckers who run Everton an even break .
Money for nothing and your Kicks for free eh ?
After his days as a trainee at Celtic , David has never won anything in football and of course that will continue but we should get behind him.
He lacks the experience of managing a top side or playing in one (since the Celtic of his teenage years) and maybe if Everton is relegated under Davie , we will see the best of him in the divisions that he knows better.
If you want to reply to this I ask just one thing. Do not start to speak about the next two games when we have to play against the mighty Larissa and then the great Derby County.......surely two of the best teams in Europe and if we do slip further down the league we will still be outside the drop zone.
The joke of all this is that Liverpool will not win anything this season either and Benitez will likely be sacked but David Moyes could be at Goodsion for ever.
I presume , Richard that you do not remember the good times when we won things and I suppose mediocrity is fine for you.
I am happy that you are happier than I am about that !
Neil Pearse
4 Posted 20/10/2007 at 23:16:58
4 Posted 20/10/2007 at 23:16:58
Well, I always like it when Doddy comes on - then we can see that he and Tony are mirror images of each other. For one, Moyes can do no wrong; for the other he can do no good. For one nothing short of playing like Arsenal will do; for the other mediocrity is fine.
oliver reed
5 Posted 20/10/2007 at 23:16:49
5 Posted 20/10/2007 at 23:16:49
thats a good response to ol’ dickey there glen...i believe we all know that he (dick) is a michief maker, and when he posts such blag, he sports a great diamond cutter...
if this cat is happy about the current situation...well, i dont want to get too spicey here..
by the way, we’ll never get relegated under david...just merely tread water...
drink, smoke, fight...get loose...
if this cat is happy about the current situation...well, i dont want to get too spicey here..
by the way, we’ll never get relegated under david...just merely tread water...
drink, smoke, fight...get loose...
Alan Rycroft
6 Posted 21/10/2007 at 00:01:26
6 Posted 21/10/2007 at 00:01:26
Dear all,
Really sickened by today’s capitulation. They were there for the taking and Everton playing much the best football, even Yakubu was gettting off his butt. Surely though along with the cruel fortune and harsh biased refereeing
Mr. Moyes tactics were surely at fault. Down to ten men you pack the penalty area, common sense, ain’t rocket science, and bring on Carsley etc. Where was our left side defence? They went awol and you can’t give Liverpool oceans of space, they will punish you.. In all a real waste and an atrocious day. bring on Jose! or somebody. I like Dave but I really feel we need a new manager. We are way too loose at the back at the moment and are not going to get anywhere.
Really sickened by today’s capitulation. They were there for the taking and Everton playing much the best football, even Yakubu was gettting off his butt. Surely though along with the cruel fortune and harsh biased refereeing
Mr. Moyes tactics were surely at fault. Down to ten men you pack the penalty area, common sense, ain’t rocket science, and bring on Carsley etc. Where was our left side defence? They went awol and you can’t give Liverpool oceans of space, they will punish you.. In all a real waste and an atrocious day. bring on Jose! or somebody. I like Dave but I really feel we need a new manager. We are way too loose at the back at the moment and are not going to get anywhere.
Roy coyne
7 Posted 21/10/2007 at 00:13:04
7 Posted 21/10/2007 at 00:13:04
Where we cheated YES did we deserve to win no One thing stood out after reading a letter about the 1962 derby I reminisce and than thought about captains in either 63 or 64 St John had a spat with West and Westy collapsed to the floor (un touched by St John) the ref calls St John and starts to point to the dressing room up steps our captain Brian Labone who says something to the Ref and St John stays on compare that to that bastard Gerrard not content getting a highly debatable penalty talks the ref into sending Hibbo off I suppose this is the difference in standards Labone was honest as the days long where Gerrard is just a thug who is lucky enough to play football
wes wright
8 Posted 21/10/2007 at 00:37:58
8 Posted 21/10/2007 at 00:37:58
good posts tonight dont agree with doddy but why as toffeeweb got old news on headline on a bloody derby day - keep up lads
Richard Dodd
9 Posted 21/10/2007 at 09:20:52
9 Posted 21/10/2007 at 09:20:52
Of course I want to do better than finish tenth each season.My point was that in comparison to what has been the achievement under other regimes we will have done well.Only a foolish optimist sees Everton troubling the Big Four on a regular basis-our blessing is that we have a manager who has done it once and can do it again but as a rolling average tenth IS good.
Dave
10 Posted 21/10/2007 at 09:49:24
10 Posted 21/10/2007 at 09:49:24
Laughing to myself almost its now sinking in that all what happened capitulation wise was down to Tony(ball watcher)Hibbert.. How this lad stays in the team I will never know..Going back to the first minute of yesterdays game Hibbert was nearly even caught out by Benayoun who once again ball watched.. Why did Moyes sign Jagielka? This guy is not a midfielder. Ok he put in a few tackles but when the ball is at his feet he may aswell be a fish walking along the pavement. A midfield of him and Neville is scary.. Will Jagiela replace Hibbert at full back once we have Gravesen and Cahill fit (if we ever have them fit)?.
John Doolan
11 Posted 21/10/2007 at 10:05:29
11 Posted 21/10/2007 at 10:05:29
Richard - if we finish below 10th do we have your permission to sack the average one or is your rolling average moveable ie finishing 15th is better than 17th - on second thoughts dont bother replying as I suspect you would be happy in the championship
Richard - you really need to get out more and by that I mean out of Moyes backside, its beginning to badly affect your brain
Richard - you really need to get out more and by that I mean out of Moyes backside, its beginning to badly affect your brain
Russ Kavanagh
12 Posted 21/10/2007 at 10:10:01
12 Posted 21/10/2007 at 10:10:01
This post proves to me that you are a wind up merchant. No true, blue=blooded Evertonian would be happy with finishing tenth for the foreseeable future.
The majority of Blues are pained by the constant lack of progress since Moyes (much to his credit) took us back into the top 4.
He is tactically inept and his spending on big buys is woeful. He has spent well in excess of twenty million pounds on forwards yet not one has truly set the team alight (I think this is mainly down to his tactics but this is for another debate). He has bought Jagielka yet it is plain to see that he is not a midfielder - where does davy play him - yes in midfield. What is the point of signing Baines if we are not going to use him? Why sign a competent right back in Neville who could lead and gel the back four if we are going to put him in - yes, midfield. Why have we not signed Fernandez? We had plenty of time. The list of dithering misses goes on and on...
Richard Dodd - you are either a fool or a red.
The majority of Blues are pained by the constant lack of progress since Moyes (much to his credit) took us back into the top 4.
He is tactically inept and his spending on big buys is woeful. He has spent well in excess of twenty million pounds on forwards yet not one has truly set the team alight (I think this is mainly down to his tactics but this is for another debate). He has bought Jagielka yet it is plain to see that he is not a midfielder - where does davy play him - yes in midfield. What is the point of signing Baines if we are not going to use him? Why sign a competent right back in Neville who could lead and gel the back four if we are going to put him in - yes, midfield. Why have we not signed Fernandez? We had plenty of time. The list of dithering misses goes on and on...
Richard Dodd - you are either a fool or a red.
Richard Dodd
13 Posted 21/10/2007 at 10:16:55
13 Posted 21/10/2007 at 10:16:55
I plead guilty to neither but I’d rather be branded a fool than a Red!
One thing is for certain,I get more pleasure from being an Evertonian than you do!
One thing is for certain,I get more pleasure from being an Evertonian than you do!
Tony Williams
14 Posted 21/10/2007 at 10:34:44
14 Posted 21/10/2007 at 10:34:44
You may possibly be a wind or just want a reaction so you can tell Mummy that loads of people answered your article.
Finishing 10th should be the lowest expectation we should have, we should aim to win the league and at the very least, which would mean a dire season, finish 10th.
No true fan would settle for 10th, I would like European football every season and a growth in sqaud size, strength and skill.
Finishing 10th should be the lowest expectation we should have, we should aim to win the league and at the very least, which would mean a dire season, finish 10th.
No true fan would settle for 10th, I would like European football every season and a growth in sqaud size, strength and skill.
Seamus Murphy
15 Posted 21/10/2007 at 10:47:37
15 Posted 21/10/2007 at 10:47:37
This guy cannot be for real.Happy with 10th for the next 5 seasons!!!!
Cop on man - We are EFC - 9 times league champions, fans like you accepting of mediocrity will be the ruination of this club - i really hope you are in a minority of one or else a red on a wind up cause i would hate to think that an Everton fan could be happy with mid table mediocrity forever...too hard to believe really
Cop on man - We are EFC - 9 times league champions, fans like you accepting of mediocrity will be the ruination of this club - i really hope you are in a minority of one or else a red on a wind up cause i would hate to think that an Everton fan could be happy with mid table mediocrity forever...too hard to believe really
Harry Meek
16 Posted 21/10/2007 at 10:51:20
16 Posted 21/10/2007 at 10:51:20
An average finish of tenth is what we can expect under Moyes as he is a very average manager. Now that would be heaven for the Fulhams, Readings and Birminghams but definitely NOT for Everton.
Most of us recognise that in reality, Moyes hasn?t a clue on how to take us on to the next level. He makes ?big? signings but expects them to adapt to small-club tactics. When he tries to modify his natural defensive strategy, they leak goals like a sieve. Only the blind would not have seen that pushing Lescott so forward needed cover at the back.
Most of us recognise that in reality, Moyes hasn?t a clue on how to take us on to the next level. He makes ?big? signings but expects them to adapt to small-club tactics. When he tries to modify his natural defensive strategy, they leak goals like a sieve. Only the blind would not have seen that pushing Lescott so forward needed cover at the back.
He relies so much on set pieces for his teams to score that we now have gung-ho tactics at corners. In reality Hibbert was the patsy for the Gerrard break-away..... oh I could go on but can?t be arsed!
Brian Noble
17 Posted 21/10/2007 at 11:17:03
17 Posted 21/10/2007 at 11:17:03
Good post,Harry,as always.But what does Kenwright ask of Moyes? I suspect it’s to finish tenth at all costs-anthing else is a bonus.
Trust me,Dodd can be relied on to trot out the official party line. He IS connected!
Trust me,Dodd can be relied on to trot out the official party line. He IS connected!
Matthew
18 Posted 21/10/2007 at 12:00:19
18 Posted 21/10/2007 at 12:00:19
I can’t believe the amount of ’fans’ that slag off Moyes on this site. Lets try and be honest for a change.
1. Moyes has improved us from a relegation fighting team to a mid/top half table team. Fact. If you can’t read where a club is in the table you shouldn’t be a fan.
2. I admit, Moyes is perhaps not a great tactician. This was proved in the Kharkiv games and the European level is perhaps a step to far for Moyes. In his defence to this, he is still inexperienced in Europe and has only managed 4 games. If Moyes level is only getting to top 6, then perhaps we need another manager to kick on further, but after 4 games in Europe, give him a chance after all he has earned it, as in point 1 above.
3. I believe Moyes got the tactics RIGHT yesterday. Benitez came out with the better tactics by playing a diamond midfield to win that area as that is how we have done well in the derby recently. Therefore, Liverpool were the better team for the first 15 minutes as Moyes tried to work out how to combat this. After about 15 mins, we started to gain control as Osman was moved inside and slighlty forward and told to play off Mascherano and Arteta was brought more into the middle. This created a scenario where the centre midfield was packed with both teams in reality playing a 4 man centre midfield and no one from either side on the wings. Only after Moyes changed that, did Everton then get control of the game and duly got their reward and the first goal. The second half started the same with Everton in control and it only looked like one winner, us. Until Clattenberg and Gerrard combined for their goal and reduced us to 10 men. Even then, Moyes could have shut up shop and would have got criticised on the site specifically for being defensive. For fucks sake, Moyes was still being positive and trying to win the game, and guess what, we still looked the only team likely to score and win the game, especially with Lescott playing left-back and left-midfield (not for the first time this season) all at once and doing a sterling job and looked like being our main creator as he would have been had Clattenberg taken his red shirt off.
Moyes had to change tactics a couple of times which all worked. The players were blameless (although Hibbert should have taken Gerrard out earlier or let him shoot, as England know he can’t score). The only reason we lost was because the ref bottled every decision in favour of them. Coincidence? I think not.
1. Moyes has improved us from a relegation fighting team to a mid/top half table team. Fact. If you can’t read where a club is in the table you shouldn’t be a fan.
2. I admit, Moyes is perhaps not a great tactician. This was proved in the Kharkiv games and the European level is perhaps a step to far for Moyes. In his defence to this, he is still inexperienced in Europe and has only managed 4 games. If Moyes level is only getting to top 6, then perhaps we need another manager to kick on further, but after 4 games in Europe, give him a chance after all he has earned it, as in point 1 above.
3. I believe Moyes got the tactics RIGHT yesterday. Benitez came out with the better tactics by playing a diamond midfield to win that area as that is how we have done well in the derby recently. Therefore, Liverpool were the better team for the first 15 minutes as Moyes tried to work out how to combat this. After about 15 mins, we started to gain control as Osman was moved inside and slighlty forward and told to play off Mascherano and Arteta was brought more into the middle. This created a scenario where the centre midfield was packed with both teams in reality playing a 4 man centre midfield and no one from either side on the wings. Only after Moyes changed that, did Everton then get control of the game and duly got their reward and the first goal. The second half started the same with Everton in control and it only looked like one winner, us. Until Clattenberg and Gerrard combined for their goal and reduced us to 10 men. Even then, Moyes could have shut up shop and would have got criticised on the site specifically for being defensive. For fucks sake, Moyes was still being positive and trying to win the game, and guess what, we still looked the only team likely to score and win the game, especially with Lescott playing left-back and left-midfield (not for the first time this season) all at once and doing a sterling job and looked like being our main creator as he would have been had Clattenberg taken his red shirt off.
Moyes had to change tactics a couple of times which all worked. The players were blameless (although Hibbert should have taken Gerrard out earlier or let him shoot, as England know he can’t score). The only reason we lost was because the ref bottled every decision in favour of them. Coincidence? I think not.
Tony Williams
19 Posted 21/10/2007 at 12:30:13
19 Posted 21/10/2007 at 12:30:13
Well said Matthew, however you will no doubt be labled a Moyes Apologist or a Moyesette or something similarly dreogative, as the Anti-Moyes group do not want to hear sensible debate they just want to scream and shout how crap Moyes is and how he will be the ruin of our club.
You also have posters like Harry Meek saying he is a very average manager, so average in fact he has given us Europe in two out of three season, a bet about 10 other teams would love to be that average.
Moyes deffinitelt has his faults and is still learning his trade, I for one am glad he is learning it with us and hope to see him improve and push us on further, however a lot of posters feel we should be playing like Brazil every week and always disappear when we win or still find something to slag Moyes off about.
The postal stricke has caused delays with tickets - It’s Moyes’s fault sack him.
Give me strength.
You also have posters like Harry Meek saying he is a very average manager, so average in fact he has given us Europe in two out of three season, a bet about 10 other teams would love to be that average.
Moyes deffinitelt has his faults and is still learning his trade, I for one am glad he is learning it with us and hope to see him improve and push us on further, however a lot of posters feel we should be playing like Brazil every week and always disappear when we win or still find something to slag Moyes off about.
The postal stricke has caused delays with tickets - It’s Moyes’s fault sack him.
Give me strength.
Exiled Toffee
20 Posted 21/10/2007 at 13:40:57
20 Posted 21/10/2007 at 13:40:57
Will people please stop reacting to Richard’s emails? He’s just trying give us a daily dose of fun to keep our spirits up!
I mean someone who works for a local borough council and yet seems to have the ear of every journalist and everyone at the club? Really? He’s so good the way he rights it, and with the number of people who fall for it, I have to say I think he is a Master Baiter - a legend! Give him his own column please!
I mean someone who works for a local borough council and yet seems to have the ear of every journalist and everyone at the club? Really? He’s so good the way he rights it, and with the number of people who fall for it, I have to say I think he is a Master Baiter - a legend! Give him his own column please!
Ray
21 Posted 21/10/2007 at 18:41:13
21 Posted 21/10/2007 at 18:41:13
Ive said all along that Moyes is great at getting the best out of poor players, just look when he first came here to see that in the 2002/03 season but the problem is can he blend together what will be our best squad in years once Gravesen and Cahill will be in contention to start again?. I t makes me wonder whether he will still lean towards a defensive formation even at Goodison in games we should be destroying teams in. We have the players but we just dont have the nous or the blend to get in and behind teams on a regular basis
Dan Sedlak
22 Posted 30/10/2007 at 16:56:30
22 Posted 30/10/2007 at 16:56:30
Is the real Richard Dodd a kopite from Kent?
http://richards-thought-online.blogspot.com/
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
To golf clap and say, "jolly good show" to the perennial underdogs who are always punching above their weight? To be content that Davey really is trying his hardest and that we should get behind the lads because it's not their fault they're not world beaters?
Five years of finishing 10th with no European football just so we meet an average statistic over our history. That's progress?
Yes, progress is relative; relative to the past five years under Moyes during which time we've finished 7th, 6th and 4th... So 10th this season after spending record amounts in the summer and the likes of you praising the manager and Board to the rafters wouldn't be progress at all, would it?