The Mail Bag
No coincidence
Comments (14)
It is obviously no coincidence that the team managed to go away from home score two, get a clean sheet, three points in the bag WITHOUT Hibbert and Neville.
Now, considering Jags had a good game at right back, it will be no surprise to see him keep his place as Hibbert is woeful and badly low on confidence.
But will the manager have the nouse to keep Neville on the bench (where he belongs)? Don't think so. What are the odds Carsley will make way for Moyes's favourite player?
Andy Codd, Posted 28/10/2007 at 23:13:08
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Neil Pearse
2 Posted 29/10/2007 at 00:27:06
2 Posted 29/10/2007 at 00:27:06
Carsley. I think it’s Cars - when he’s playing on his own just in front of the back four - that makes a big difference. Vastly superior as a defensive mid to Neville or Jags. But I’d take Neville over Jags at RB too. What we really need is a younger version of Cars in the January window.
Mikhail Ridhuan
3 Posted 29/10/2007 at 00:33:53
3 Posted 29/10/2007 at 00:33:53
Yes, without a doubt, Derby make us look good. A team bereft of confidence, nous and ability are bound to, regardless of the presence of Neville and Hibbert. What I like to comment is our continued use of the long ball that is at best laughable and at worst, sheer nonsensical.
You got a team like Derby with a woeful defense, non-existent midfield and a lightweight attack. Your two best moves, both played ball to feet, with Yakubu as intended target, resulted in goals. So why not play this way more often than not? I still cannot understand why this empty punt into space is always utilized when it can only result in loss of possession.
I don’t want to slag us off, especially after an away win and a clean sheet to boot, but Derby were piss-poor and any other team on the up will provide much stiffer opposition against us.
You got a team like Derby with a woeful defense, non-existent midfield and a lightweight attack. Your two best moves, both played ball to feet, with Yakubu as intended target, resulted in goals. So why not play this way more often than not? I still cannot understand why this empty punt into space is always utilized when it can only result in loss of possession.
I don’t want to slag us off, especially after an away win and a clean sheet to boot, but Derby were piss-poor and any other team on the up will provide much stiffer opposition against us.
Jay Campbell
4 Posted 29/10/2007 at 03:02:29
4 Posted 29/10/2007 at 03:02:29
Andy goes without saying Hibbert is Fucking useless and Neville is neva a midfielder. Just hope Moyes can now work it out.
jayharris
5 Posted 29/10/2007 at 02:59:44
5 Posted 29/10/2007 at 02:59:44
It is no coincidence that we have achieved our best results since Carsley has come back in.
It was particularly noticeable against Derby the way he covers our defence and drops in to cover midfield,
Before he came back into the fold our midfield was cut wide open.
I would also like to praise Ossie who has come in for so much stick from the boo boys and is currently one of our best players(aLSO SINCE cARS HAS COME BACK)
NSNO
It was particularly noticeable against Derby the way he covers our defence and drops in to cover midfield,
Before he came back into the fold our midfield was cut wide open.
I would also like to praise Ossie who has come in for so much stick from the boo boys and is currently one of our best players(aLSO SINCE cARS HAS COME BACK)
NSNO
Mikhail Ridhuan
6 Posted 29/10/2007 at 05:19:49
6 Posted 29/10/2007 at 05:19:49
Can you believe this little quote from Moyes? From Soccernet review of the Derby County game:
’Today he (Yakubu) delivered with an impressive goal that took the pressure off us and a great dummy. He showed intelligence and awareness and he is a better footballer than I thought.
’But in Britain what we really enjoy is seeing players put in their graft. That’s part of our culture and Yakubu did that today and he got a standing ovation for us.’
Does Moyes place a premium, above all else, on graft and sheer hard work? Is he willing on Yak to run and run and run, work and work and work, until all his scoring prowess drains when he finally gets to the box? The fact that he mentions Yak’s intelligence being better than he thought seems like it is a small unexpected bonus to him compared to workrate and hard effort.
’Today he (Yakubu) delivered with an impressive goal that took the pressure off us and a great dummy. He showed intelligence and awareness and he is a better footballer than I thought.
’But in Britain what we really enjoy is seeing players put in their graft. That’s part of our culture and Yakubu did that today and he got a standing ovation for us.’
Does Moyes place a premium, above all else, on graft and sheer hard work? Is he willing on Yak to run and run and run, work and work and work, until all his scoring prowess drains when he finally gets to the box? The fact that he mentions Yak’s intelligence being better than he thought seems like it is a small unexpected bonus to him compared to workrate and hard effort.
Brian Noble
7 Posted 29/10/2007 at 09:53:11
7 Posted 29/10/2007 at 09:53:11
The comment says it all about Moyes’ mindset-sometimes he gets there by accident ie. the Hibbert and Neville suspensions, the need to play Carsley because the other options aren’t available......all in all he gets about 40% of his decisions right,by no means enough to make a real mark.
philip mcavoy
8 Posted 29/10/2007 at 09:58:22
8 Posted 29/10/2007 at 09:58:22
Why’s the graft a bad thing? It is where yakubu needs to improve and it will make him a better player. It’s why ronaldo and joe cole have improved so muh over the past year or so before they learned to put in the work they were talented but ineffective.
Am Iwrong to say that when yakubu worked harder today he had his best game so far?
Am Iwrong to say that when yakubu worked harder today he had his best game so far?
Paul Tran
9 Posted 29/10/2007 at 11:12:54
9 Posted 29/10/2007 at 11:12:54
Moyes’ comments sum up the mindset of the current raft of British managers. They can’t/won’t coach players to pass and keep the ball, so they judge them on their ability and willingness to run all day.
If we’re going to keep playing this way, what’s the point of spending over £20m on proven goalscorers, only to turn them into ’honest plodders’?
People always ask about alternative managers. Over the past three years, I have seen various names posted. The usual British suspects: O’Neill, Curbishley, Pardew, Hughes, Allardyce, plus the fantasy European ones: Mourinho, Klinnsmann, Ranieri.
Every time one of these names is suggested, we are told that either they are ’no good’ or that they would ’never come to Everton’. So at least we know that Kenwright/Moyes’ trick of re-branding Everton as a tinpot, second rate, limited ambition club has partially succeeded.
Please tell me why a quality manager wouldn’t want to take Everton by the scruff of the neck and make things happen?
We all know what we get and what we’re probably always going to get with Moyes. It’s clear that most of us have a strong opinion as to whether that will take us further.
Changing manager will be a gamble, regardless of who comes next. Remember that doing nothing is also a gamble. There’s no leadership on the pitch - isn’t it time for some genuine leadership off the pitch?
If we’re going to keep playing this way, what’s the point of spending over £20m on proven goalscorers, only to turn them into ’honest plodders’?
People always ask about alternative managers. Over the past three years, I have seen various names posted. The usual British suspects: O’Neill, Curbishley, Pardew, Hughes, Allardyce, plus the fantasy European ones: Mourinho, Klinnsmann, Ranieri.
Every time one of these names is suggested, we are told that either they are ’no good’ or that they would ’never come to Everton’. So at least we know that Kenwright/Moyes’ trick of re-branding Everton as a tinpot, second rate, limited ambition club has partially succeeded.
Please tell me why a quality manager wouldn’t want to take Everton by the scruff of the neck and make things happen?
We all know what we get and what we’re probably always going to get with Moyes. It’s clear that most of us have a strong opinion as to whether that will take us further.
Changing manager will be a gamble, regardless of who comes next. Remember that doing nothing is also a gamble. There’s no leadership on the pitch - isn’t it time for some genuine leadership off the pitch?
Gavin Hoare
10 Posted 29/10/2007 at 11:33:25
10 Posted 29/10/2007 at 11:33:25
It?s no coincidence that we kept a clean sheet more so because we were playing against the worst team in the Premiership rather than Hibbert and Neville not playing.
However I would like to say that in my opinion Carsely is head and shoulders above Neville playing the holding midfield role. I reserve judgement on the right back slot until I?ve seen more of Jags and Neville in that position.
However I would like to say that in my opinion Carsely is head and shoulders above Neville playing the holding midfield role. I reserve judgement on the right back slot until I?ve seen more of Jags and Neville in that position.
Matthew Williams
11 Posted 29/10/2007 at 12:47:11
11 Posted 29/10/2007 at 12:47:11
Well most people would say Arteta is our most gifted player yet he works very hard for the team. If moyes gets a bit more workrate from Yakubu then he will turn into more of an all round player which can only be a good thing. Moyes has already said "there has to be a bit of give and take" as to regards to his workrate/goals
Brian Waring
12 Posted 29/10/2007 at 14:53:31
12 Posted 29/10/2007 at 14:53:31
The problem with trying to change a players style of play is that it can backfire.Look at AJ,bring more work-rate into his game the goals stop coming.Beattie,it was mentioned plenty of times on here that his work-rate had improved greatly,thing is he couldn’t find the back of the net.You buy strikers to score goals,not to run around like headless chickens all game.The Yak proved yesterday,give him the ball in the box and it will end up in the back off the net.He has scored goals wherever he has been,I don’t give a fuck if he is a lazy twat,as long as he puts them away,thats all what matters.I don’t want him chasing long balls into the corners,I want him in the box where he can do the damage.
Mikhail Ridhuan
13 Posted 29/10/2007 at 15:38:43
13 Posted 29/10/2007 at 15:38:43
@philip mcavoy:
I’m not suggesting that hard work and graft has no place in the modern game; it is a worthy attribute to have and when applied strongly, should give you more than a chance in a difficult game. But I just think that Moyes is selling the team short in the long-term because creativity is then allowed to ease into hit-and-hope moments with the awareness that your attackers are going to chase and harry for any loose (and inevitably, long) ball. This is a trapped mindset that might work once or twice in a game, but hopeless when the onus is on us to chase the game.
I agree with Brian that this might have something to do with the rapid disintegration of Beattie and to a lesser extent Andrew Johnson’s goalscoring exploits. Watch Beattie when he was at Saints and see how confident he is when he shoots. Free-kick belters against the likes of Spurs, Chelsea and Newcastle attest to his shooting ability. Watch AJ during his Palace days; searing runs to the box, leaving defenders in the dust, due to intelligent running and incisive passing, ball on ground.
Now watch the majority (very subjective, I agree, but happens more often than not) of their Everton games: long balls high over the air for them to head on. Not their strength at all. How about aimless punts to the sides of the opposite half for them to chase needlessly. Not constructive at all. And this is aiming to continue with the likes of Yakubu and Anichebe.
I am frustrated even more about this because the potential for creative thinking and movement is there: just look at the Osman goal in the Larissa game, it’s pure class. We threaded it like gold around silk, it was a beauty to watch. Why can’t we do it more often? Not to say to score like that every game, but more like applying yourself more creatively than just fear of losing ground on your opponents.
I just want to suggest that the team just ease up on the hopeful punt. Build from the back, pass it to midfield and let them create magic. We have that personnel to do that: Arteta, Osman, Pienaar. Carsley had a great game at Derby but we need someone in that position that can not only break things up but also to start the attack rolling. I know we can do this. I have seen it happen. But if Moyes continue to play this hard graft card once too often, we are not climbing out of that bottomless well called mediocrity.
I’m not suggesting that hard work and graft has no place in the modern game; it is a worthy attribute to have and when applied strongly, should give you more than a chance in a difficult game. But I just think that Moyes is selling the team short in the long-term because creativity is then allowed to ease into hit-and-hope moments with the awareness that your attackers are going to chase and harry for any loose (and inevitably, long) ball. This is a trapped mindset that might work once or twice in a game, but hopeless when the onus is on us to chase the game.
I agree with Brian that this might have something to do with the rapid disintegration of Beattie and to a lesser extent Andrew Johnson’s goalscoring exploits. Watch Beattie when he was at Saints and see how confident he is when he shoots. Free-kick belters against the likes of Spurs, Chelsea and Newcastle attest to his shooting ability. Watch AJ during his Palace days; searing runs to the box, leaving defenders in the dust, due to intelligent running and incisive passing, ball on ground.
Now watch the majority (very subjective, I agree, but happens more often than not) of their Everton games: long balls high over the air for them to head on. Not their strength at all. How about aimless punts to the sides of the opposite half for them to chase needlessly. Not constructive at all. And this is aiming to continue with the likes of Yakubu and Anichebe.
I am frustrated even more about this because the potential for creative thinking and movement is there: just look at the Osman goal in the Larissa game, it’s pure class. We threaded it like gold around silk, it was a beauty to watch. Why can’t we do it more often? Not to say to score like that every game, but more like applying yourself more creatively than just fear of losing ground on your opponents.
I just want to suggest that the team just ease up on the hopeful punt. Build from the back, pass it to midfield and let them create magic. We have that personnel to do that: Arteta, Osman, Pienaar. Carsley had a great game at Derby but we need someone in that position that can not only break things up but also to start the attack rolling. I know we can do this. I have seen it happen. But if Moyes continue to play this hard graft card once too often, we are not climbing out of that bottomless well called mediocrity.
philip mcavoy
14 Posted 29/10/2007 at 16:51:25
14 Posted 29/10/2007 at 16:51:25
Mikhail I think it’s a case of which needs to come first. I agree with moyes that the graft is very important and that that needs ot be out into the players. You can’t inject more talent into players - you need to provide them a platform on which to show it.
It’s taken a few games for the players to settle and get used to each other but now they;ve done that the ball is going to feet rather than through the air.
It’s taken a while to click but now we have options and variety in our team for the first time in ages.
It’s taken a few games for the players to settle and get used to each other but now they;ve done that the ball is going to feet rather than through the air.
It’s taken a while to click but now we have options and variety in our team for the first time in ages.
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1 Posted 29/10/2007 at 00:16:53
Neville is better than Jags at right back