The Mail Bag
It's up to us
Comments (19)
Like most, the Derby still rankles.
Like most, I am disgusted more by the events (or lack of them) thereafter.
However, we have to look at the fact that this inactivity also includes our own club.
What have EFC done to keep this on the public agenda? Sometimes you get out what you put in. I sincerely hope Moyes is not now keeping stumm to preserve himself from a fine from the FA. Sometimes, and this is one of them, things are worth fighting for.
I urge all Evertonians to take 5 minutes to email the Premier League and the BBC (MoTD and FF). Keep this public and something will be done.
Up the blues.
James McPherson, Posted 29/10/2007 at 15:42:45
Comments
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Lyndon Lloyd
I'm not sure what the club have done behind the scenes with regard to contacting the FA and lodging complaints but Moyes spent most of last week complaining about Clattenburg in the media and even carried it into the press conference before the Larissa match. He has been reticent to bitch too much in the past but I'm glad that he hasn't let this one lie. I don't think, however, that anything is going to be done by the FA on this one. They clearly don't give a toss. No, if we were Man United...
Pat Mustard
1 Posted 29/10/2007 at 18:09:46
1 Posted 29/10/2007 at 18:09:46
I suspect the reason for the silence is that the FA have a real dilemma here. I can’t see how Mr. Clattenburg can be given another game at Goodison. If he refs another game involving Liverpool then the opposition will badger him on his every decision. He certainly can’t be given another Merseyside derby.
So we have a ref who can’t be given certain games? It just can’t be done.
The FA either have to admit he got it wrong and give out some form of punishment or they have to let it be and hope it will go away.
Given that the FA are a spineless set of bureaucrats then I suspect they will arrange for Mr. Clattenburg to avoid games involving either Everton or Liverpool without ever formally admitting it.
So we have a ref who can’t be given certain games? It just can’t be done.
The FA either have to admit he got it wrong and give out some form of punishment or they have to let it be and hope it will go away.
Given that the FA are a spineless set of bureaucrats then I suspect they will arrange for Mr. Clattenburg to avoid games involving either Everton or Liverpool without ever formally admitting it.
Arthur jones
2 Posted 29/10/2007 at 18:26:11
2 Posted 29/10/2007 at 18:26:11
This incident could create even more of a problem for the FA as for future Euro championships and world cups , don’t the "" powers that be "" have to nominate a ref ? After Poll’s total cockup at the last World cup then I think Clottenbog was probably in line to restore the English refs reputation , How can he be recommended now ?? The merseyside derby is broadcast worldwide , Complete balls up for all to see , can you see FIFA wanting this clown to officiate in vital games ? I actually thought clottenbog was one of our better refs , pre derby match , but then I was also made up Collina was nominated to ref the Villareal game until he blew his whistle !!!!! Offhand , I can’t actually think of a ref who I am actually happy with when I look at the Premiership list , Poss Howard Webb , but bottles it sometimes , I hate mr Walton but i think he’s consistent , consitently CRAP , but we seem to win every game he refs for us , including when he sends our keeper off after 8 minutes !!
Lets just get the techno’ in , as soon as possible
Lets just get the techno’ in , as soon as possible
David Barks
3 Posted 29/10/2007 at 18:52:49
3 Posted 29/10/2007 at 18:52:49
The FA will do nothing because they have no incentive to. Moyes can and should stay vocal and keep it in the spotlight every press conference but the FA will still do nothing. They want certain teams to be getting the results and to qualify for the Champions League each season because they draw more money, which is what matters to them in the end. If Liverpool would have lost that game to us the meeting with Arsenal the next week would have meant that much less, as Liverpool would have been further down the table and clearly not a title contender. What I would like done is for Everton to undertake their own investigation. Pay for a team of private investigators to look into Clattenburgs past year, phone calls, travel arrangements, even bank account. Corrupt officiating has just happened in Germany and Italy, England is not immune to this.
Roy coyne
4 Posted 29/10/2007 at 19:10:02
4 Posted 29/10/2007 at 19:10:02
I honestly think that the complaint is in the wrong as much as the ref he did not make mistakes ,he was biased thats a whole new ball game a poor ref errs for both teams maybe erring more for one this piece of shit did not he favoured Liverpool when ever he could and I think also Dominic King should now resign as chief writer on the Echo for Everton his let it go now message in the Echo was to save Liverpool and Benitiz in particular any embarrisment
David Barks
5 Posted 29/10/2007 at 19:53:56
5 Posted 29/10/2007 at 19:53:56
Roy,
That’s exactly why I want the club to hire investigators to dig up anything that they can. Those were not errors, they were biased decisions. It is not incompetence when an official gets 4 major decisions wrong all in one teams favor. You’re absolutely right.
That’s exactly why I want the club to hire investigators to dig up anything that they can. Those were not errors, they were biased decisions. It is not incompetence when an official gets 4 major decisions wrong all in one teams favor. You’re absolutely right.
arthur jones
6 Posted 29/10/2007 at 22:13:04
6 Posted 29/10/2007 at 22:13:04
There is an excellent blog called " football is fixed " which can be found with a google search . This tells not just individual cases of corruption in football , Germany and Italy , but also how vast amounts are being gambled on games worldwideand how bribing refs can be worth millions to these gambling syndicates . The Premiership is the richest league in the world , Players don’t really need to be bribed , they’re multi-millionaires anyway , Referees aren’t , they might be quite well paid but 25 grand to ensure a result ????? It’s happened in Italy and Germany only recenty ,is the premieship immune to this practice ? who knows , maye every English ref is beyond reproach and dodgy decisions are just incompetance ......., and maybe Kelly Brooke is my bit on the side
Dave wilson
7 Posted 29/10/2007 at 22:11:05
7 Posted 29/10/2007 at 22:11:05
David
Private investigators ? Delve into Phone calls, travel arrangments and even bank accounts ? were does it end ? what if your wrong and he isnt a cold calculating cheat ?
what if he was just identified - long before this game - by Liverpool players as week indivual easily influenced
this isnt Watergate, we just had another spineless official, thats all
Everton have a clear choice, we raise hell every time a decision doesnt go our way, making refs terrified to give a decision agqainst us - works for the top four.
Or we can continue to adopt the mustnt grumble attitude - then whinge like fuck amongst ourselves for weeks -
until camera evidence is introduced ALL clubs face a choice they are either the bully or the victim
Private investigators ? Delve into Phone calls, travel arrangments and even bank accounts ? were does it end ? what if your wrong and he isnt a cold calculating cheat ?
what if he was just identified - long before this game - by Liverpool players as week indivual easily influenced
this isnt Watergate, we just had another spineless official, thats all
Everton have a clear choice, we raise hell every time a decision doesnt go our way, making refs terrified to give a decision agqainst us - works for the top four.
Or we can continue to adopt the mustnt grumble attitude - then whinge like fuck amongst ourselves for weeks -
until camera evidence is introduced ALL clubs face a choice they are either the bully or the victim
David Barks
8 Posted 29/10/2007 at 22:42:18
8 Posted 29/10/2007 at 22:42:18
Politics are corrupt, there are corrupt corporations and business dealings, there are corrupt employees. We commonly refer to the Italians as cheats because of past evidence, and rightly so. But at least action was taken against them. Juventus got relegated. Could you ever see the FA relegating Liverpool or United because of illegally influencing matches? I have no doubts that there is serious corruption in the FA and the league, nobody and no institution is immune. Evertonians have seen plenty of evidence of it, and as the footballing world has become more and more just about business with all the foreign investment and T.V. contracts, corruption has seeped in and is getting worse every year. I knew immediately following the Derby two weekends ago that the match was fixed, it was the only explanation. But the fact that the FA have said and done absolutely nothing about it only proves to me that my initial feelings were absolutely correct.
David Barks
9 Posted 29/10/2007 at 23:57:57
9 Posted 29/10/2007 at 23:57:57
Dave Wilson,
What if I’m wrong about it and he isn’t a cheat? Well then nothing would come out of the investigation now would it. It’s a private investigation, not public, so the only time anything would be done is if criminal activity was found through the investigation. That was not a spineless official. He gave them 2 penalties and sent off two of our players, at Goodison, and turned down two of our penalty appeals. He refused to send off Kuyt for a karate kick attempt. He showed plenty of spine by giving the away team all the calls, and giving us none. It’s your attitude of thinking we just had another spineless official that would allow match fixing to go on. And what do you think would happen if our players tried to bully the refs into making calls. I’ll tell you, they would be shown a red card just like McFadden was against Arsenal last season for crying out for a blatant penalty against AJ. Everton need to take matters into their own hands and try to find hard evidence because last weekend was an absolute disgrace.
What if I’m wrong about it and he isn’t a cheat? Well then nothing would come out of the investigation now would it. It’s a private investigation, not public, so the only time anything would be done is if criminal activity was found through the investigation. That was not a spineless official. He gave them 2 penalties and sent off two of our players, at Goodison, and turned down two of our penalty appeals. He refused to send off Kuyt for a karate kick attempt. He showed plenty of spine by giving the away team all the calls, and giving us none. It’s your attitude of thinking we just had another spineless official that would allow match fixing to go on. And what do you think would happen if our players tried to bully the refs into making calls. I’ll tell you, they would be shown a red card just like McFadden was against Arsenal last season for crying out for a blatant penalty against AJ. Everton need to take matters into their own hands and try to find hard evidence because last weekend was an absolute disgrace.
Dave wilson
10 Posted 30/10/2007 at 00:08:27
10 Posted 30/10/2007 at 00:08:27
David Barks
yes your right turn a mans private life inside out and if your wrong, just shrug your shoulders. Thats a serious case of paranoia you have there mate
you claim it took spine to give them two penalties ? DID YOU SEE THE GAME ?
I know we were robbed but lets not get stupid about it, The last minute Lescot incident, the Kuyt leniency and the Hibbert sending of were all direct results of RS influence.
continue to br the victim if you want, but dont tell me Jimmy Macs camp histrionics could ever be construed as intimidation
yes your right turn a mans private life inside out and if your wrong, just shrug your shoulders. Thats a serious case of paranoia you have there mate
you claim it took spine to give them two penalties ? DID YOU SEE THE GAME ?
I know we were robbed but lets not get stupid about it, The last minute Lescot incident, the Kuyt leniency and the Hibbert sending of were all direct results of RS influence.
continue to br the victim if you want, but dont tell me Jimmy Macs camp histrionics could ever be construed as intimidation
David Barks
11 Posted 30/10/2007 at 01:28:36
11 Posted 30/10/2007 at 01:28:36
Dave Wilson,
How is hiring private investigators to do a private inquiry to see if any wrong doing turning the mans private life inside out? This happens all the time, and the only one who is privy to any of the information gained through such an investigation is the person who hired the investigator, in this case that would be Everton FC. If nothing was found then obviously Everton would have to just accept it as mistakes. But if something was found then they could go public to the proper authorities and action could be taken. And yes I saw the bloody game and I was pointing out that this was not a gutless scared official. He made plenty of hugely controversial bug decisions, but all for one team, the away team. You seem to be implying that I’m calling the guy brave, when in fact I’m saying that he knew exactly what he was doing the entire match.
How is hiring private investigators to do a private inquiry to see if any wrong doing turning the mans private life inside out? This happens all the time, and the only one who is privy to any of the information gained through such an investigation is the person who hired the investigator, in this case that would be Everton FC. If nothing was found then obviously Everton would have to just accept it as mistakes. But if something was found then they could go public to the proper authorities and action could be taken. And yes I saw the bloody game and I was pointing out that this was not a gutless scared official. He made plenty of hugely controversial bug decisions, but all for one team, the away team. You seem to be implying that I’m calling the guy brave, when in fact I’m saying that he knew exactly what he was doing the entire match.
DaffyDavid
12 Posted 30/10/2007 at 02:53:55
12 Posted 30/10/2007 at 02:53:55
You guys are a bunch of crazy jokers! Nobody say or mention anything before the derby game. There wasn’t any "corruption" before this game? COYB! Investigators?! This is really funny! Get up and move on folks!
Dave wilson
13 Posted 30/10/2007 at 07:17:07
13 Posted 30/10/2007 at 07:17:07
David Barks
think about what your saying, when matches are fixed, they are fixed for one reason and one reason only, somebody - usually way out of clottenbergs league - gets rich
I havent read a single thing anywhere that mentions betting irregularities on this game, its really quite simple, if we are to get "the rub of the green" our players have to be more dominant and powerful like players from the so call big clubs, they need to let refs know you dont fuck with EFC. The so called big four do all the time !
can you imagine The waiter, Fergie , Jose or Venger staying quiet about the supposed comments made by Clottenberg ? or any of their captains ushering protest away at the end of the game ? no that ref would have gone home in a cold sweat knowing he fucked up and guess what happens next time he’s in charge ?
Sorry but coming on here to whine about our treatment will not change a thing, nor will hiring some grubby little P I to rake through Clottenburgs bin bags.
Only Everton can change this
think about what your saying, when matches are fixed, they are fixed for one reason and one reason only, somebody - usually way out of clottenbergs league - gets rich
I havent read a single thing anywhere that mentions betting irregularities on this game, its really quite simple, if we are to get "the rub of the green" our players have to be more dominant and powerful like players from the so call big clubs, they need to let refs know you dont fuck with EFC. The so called big four do all the time !
can you imagine The waiter, Fergie , Jose or Venger staying quiet about the supposed comments made by Clottenberg ? or any of their captains ushering protest away at the end of the game ? no that ref would have gone home in a cold sweat knowing he fucked up and guess what happens next time he’s in charge ?
Sorry but coming on here to whine about our treatment will not change a thing, nor will hiring some grubby little P I to rake through Clottenburgs bin bags.
Only Everton can change this
Trevor Day
14 Posted 30/10/2007 at 12:52:21
14 Posted 30/10/2007 at 12:52:21
just heard , clottenburger has been sitting around the pool of the waitors spanish mansion, with a bag full of euros , i say lets just shoot the bastard dead ... end of story , then no one will fuck with us again.
now lets go and hammer the hatters
now lets go and hammer the hatters
Walter Peck
15 Posted 30/10/2007 at 14:11:06
15 Posted 30/10/2007 at 14:11:06
I for one have moved on from the derby "defeat". The fact of the matter is we did not lose because the game is corrupt but more so because we had a complete Grade A Ass-Clown of a referee still finding his feet at the top level, who was clearly out of his depth for a game of such magnitude.
You want an example of a fixed game? Try austria vs west germany world cup 1982 or when argentina had to score six against peru to reach the 78 final. - Thats match fixing.
I will say this though, all the match fixing in the world will not stop the shite from elimination from the champions league quite soon now. And as for the league title, better make that eighteen years...
You want an example of a fixed game? Try austria vs west germany world cup 1982 or when argentina had to score six against peru to reach the 78 final. - Thats match fixing.
I will say this though, all the match fixing in the world will not stop the shite from elimination from the champions league quite soon now. And as for the league title, better make that eighteen years...
David Barks
16 Posted 30/10/2007 at 15:12:28
16 Posted 30/10/2007 at 15:12:28
It’s not just as simple as one Ref having one bad day. Rob Styles made a questionable penalty call against Liverpool and the league came out and blasted him, apologized and announced that he was being dropped. Clattenburg makes 4 terrible calls all in Liverpool’s favor and there has been no comment, no suspension, no apology from the league. And I’m not talking about some betting irregularities, I’m talking about the big money that rides on league standing and qualification for Europe. That is why matches get fixed. Juventus was done in because their owner was influencing refs, not for betting reasons, but for the much bigger money that he gets for winning the league and qualifying for the Champions League every season.
Dave wilson
17 Posted 30/10/2007 at 19:56:08
17 Posted 30/10/2007 at 19:56:08
David
I know what your talking about, The Juve chairman already had these referees in his back pocket, he just got caught making sure they were officiating his clubs games, the Italians were’nt match fixing, it was worse than that, they were season fixing.
our refereeing selection system is different,
your right to voice concerns and if I didnt think they were credible I wouldnt have bothered listening or debating these points with you, but surely you must agree that although far from being whiter than white, our culture isnt as corrupt as it is in other parts of the world
The gunners are mega rich now, Man U as big as any club in the world and Roman has incalculable wealth, do you really believe any of them would jeopardise there standing in world football by becoming embroiled in "fixing" ? its much easier for them just to buy the best players and employ the best managers, generally speaking that works
I know what your talking about, The Juve chairman already had these referees in his back pocket, he just got caught making sure they were officiating his clubs games, the Italians were’nt match fixing, it was worse than that, they were season fixing.
our refereeing selection system is different,
your right to voice concerns and if I didnt think they were credible I wouldnt have bothered listening or debating these points with you, but surely you must agree that although far from being whiter than white, our culture isnt as corrupt as it is in other parts of the world
The gunners are mega rich now, Man U as big as any club in the world and Roman has incalculable wealth, do you really believe any of them would jeopardise there standing in world football by becoming embroiled in "fixing" ? its much easier for them just to buy the best players and employ the best managers, generally speaking that works
David Barks
18 Posted 30/10/2007 at 23:15:41
18 Posted 30/10/2007 at 23:15:41
Well put Dave Wilson,
You’re absolutely right about the Italian culture generally being more "cheaty". But I still wouldn’t put it past some of these people to ensure that their investment pays off. Just think about the insane amount of money Liverpools owners will lose if they fail to get out of the group phases of the Champions League, and fail to qualify for it the following year. Remember, they are American, not English, and have ties to the W. Bush no less. We have already seen that their stadium cost are soaring, now they could fall out of Europe and I seriously doubt they will win anything this year and could finish outside the top 4. Desperation can cause people to do desperate things. That’s my point, but I can completely understand your point as well.
You’re absolutely right about the Italian culture generally being more "cheaty". But I still wouldn’t put it past some of these people to ensure that their investment pays off. Just think about the insane amount of money Liverpools owners will lose if they fail to get out of the group phases of the Champions League, and fail to qualify for it the following year. Remember, they are American, not English, and have ties to the W. Bush no less. We have already seen that their stadium cost are soaring, now they could fall out of Europe and I seriously doubt they will win anything this year and could finish outside the top 4. Desperation can cause people to do desperate things. That’s my point, but I can completely understand your point as well.
tony hughes
19 Posted 31/10/2007 at 15:35:46
19 Posted 31/10/2007 at 15:35:46
dave Wilson. you sure you are a blue?
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