The Mail Bag
Stadium Capacity
Comments (23)
One of the reasons for a new stadium is to allow us to compete once again with Man U and Liverpool. How are we ever going to compete with them if the stadium only extends to 60,000? We may as well put up a white flag to them. Why not make it extendable to 80,000?
Keep the initial capacity at 50,000 of course. Sure we're years off competing with them, but then this stadium is for the rest of our lifetime and our children's lifetime. So why put such a small lid on our ambitions?
No-one can envisage what football will be like in 20, 30, 40+ years' time, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't plan for it.
We may never need to even go beyond 50,000, but what would we have lost by building each stand with a foundation that will allow for an extra tier? Nothing. Have we not learnt anything by this move away from Goodison regarding regarding future expansion?
If we do ever achieve a period of domination and reach a point where we need to go beyond 60,000, will we all be voting on a move to Skelmersdale? Just because because we couldn't be bothered amending the design now.
There are also other advantages to making the stadium 50,000 extendable to 80,000. If and when we do need to expand we will have the choice on how we expand. For example if we wanted to extend to 60,000 we are not forced into adding four corners. We will have the option of retaining four indivual stands and adding a third tier to the side stands. Each new additional tier will have the added benefit of being fitted with the all the latest state of the art gadgets of the day.
At this point, we will have have a 60,000 stadium plus options on how to extend. The stadium can grow when Everton can grow. If we don't grow then the stadium doesn't have to grow.
Peter Benson, Posted 16/11/2007 at 16:50:50
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Gavin Ramejkis
2 Posted 16/11/2007 at 18:43:13
2 Posted 16/11/2007 at 18:43:13
Two reasons it could never happen:
1. Billy Bullshitter has more chance of finding Atlantis than investment to pay for the extended seating as he’ll get the club up to its eyes to pay for the cattle shed
2. The prefab shed type stadiums only have a shelf life of 10-20 years max by then who is going to want to doll it up? GP has stood for considerably longer and as Tom Hughes has eloquently fought in many posts the debt we will get building this soulless shithole could be spent on GP, who will pay? Exactly the same people that will pay for the asbodome the punters buying tickets at the club as BK is potless.
1. Billy Bullshitter has more chance of finding Atlantis than investment to pay for the extended seating as he’ll get the club up to its eyes to pay for the cattle shed
2. The prefab shed type stadiums only have a shelf life of 10-20 years max by then who is going to want to doll it up? GP has stood for considerably longer and as Tom Hughes has eloquently fought in many posts the debt we will get building this soulless shithole could be spent on GP, who will pay? Exactly the same people that will pay for the asbodome the punters buying tickets at the club as BK is potless.
Stuart Mitchell
3 Posted 16/11/2007 at 20:43:27
3 Posted 16/11/2007 at 20:43:27
Gavin, try and put across constructive arguements without all the billy bullshitter nonsense, you just come across as childish and therefore noone will take your comments seriously.
frank duffy
4 Posted 16/11/2007 at 21:01:53
4 Posted 16/11/2007 at 21:01:53
Hey guys we had a stadium of 78000 once upon a time back in the 1950s. I remember a derby game in the old first division in 1963 when we played Liverpool (just been promoted) . My dad took me to the game in a crowd of 73000. ( drew 2 a piece).
However with more seating put in and other restrictions over the years the capacity has been reduced.
We were the kings of Liverpool in those days attracting very big crowds whilst the Reds were lingering in the second divsion with poor gates. But all taht was pre Bill Shankly.
The point is if we are successful and can keep it going we have massive support to fill at least a 60000 stadium.
I just hope the stadium is in the City of Liverpool for out children and grandchildren.
Always a blue
However with more seating put in and other restrictions over the years the capacity has been reduced.
We were the kings of Liverpool in those days attracting very big crowds whilst the Reds were lingering in the second divsion with poor gates. But all taht was pre Bill Shankly.
The point is if we are successful and can keep it going we have massive support to fill at least a 60000 stadium.
I just hope the stadium is in the City of Liverpool for out children and grandchildren.
Always a blue
Gavin Ramejkis
5 Posted 16/11/2007 at 21:13:07
5 Posted 16/11/2007 at 21:13:07
Just for you Stuart old boy, BK has been a board member since the 90s and has offered little progress to the club beyond lending from a business colleague in Paul Gregg then stabbing him in the back using the local press to feed carefully supplied antoi Gregg stories whilst Everton languished without new investment unless you call BK’s several untruths (apparently you have a problem with the word LIAR) such as Fortress and Russian billionaires that simply never existed, add Rooney the £50m player, the King’s Dock fiasco, his invisible act while the vote was going on and no doubt many more that never made the light of day and I guess you could grasp that maybe just maybe some long serving supporters would count their fingers if he ever shook their hand. The statement regarding the cut price, in quality only, Kirkby solution and the post vote released images and maybe just maybe you might grasp that other supporters even those that did vote in favour of the continuing investigation with Tesco and KBC NOT the agreement without further question to move and you might just might guess they are also aggrieved.
Now Stuart is that more suitably phrased? By the way one comment from one person does not ring true over anyone besides you (JUST YOU) ignoring them.
Now Stuart is that more suitably phrased? By the way one comment from one person does not ring true over anyone besides you (JUST YOU) ignoring them.
Stuart Mitchell
6 Posted 16/11/2007 at 21:29:18
6 Posted 16/11/2007 at 21:29:18
Gavin did you not get enough hugs as a kid?
I cannot stand negative fans (I use to word loosely) like you. We are going great guns in Europe, have the best squad we have had in so many many years, a great young manager and a Chairman who loves Everton FC, he may not have russian billions and maybe has not been as astute in business as he could have been. but he is a blue like us.
So lets get behind him and the team, and for one I am just happy we are getting new stadium, for all the great history of GP, its falling down!!
I cannot stand negative fans (I use to word loosely) like you. We are going great guns in Europe, have the best squad we have had in so many many years, a great young manager and a Chairman who loves Everton FC, he may not have russian billions and maybe has not been as astute in business as he could have been. but he is a blue like us.
So lets get behind him and the team, and for one I am just happy we are getting new stadium, for all the great history of GP, its falling down!!
jayharris
7 Posted 16/11/2007 at 21:50:45
7 Posted 16/11/2007 at 21:50:45
Stuart,
I and I am sure many other non negative true blues happen to totally agree with Gavin and I am a glass half full sort of person.
The team are doing much better now but that is no thanks to BK who also messed up the Fernades fiasco.
I often raise this question but if Billy liar only had a million to his name where do you think the 20 million to buy Johnson out came from and how did everton’s debt all of a sudden become 30 million?
He then stabbed his old friend Paul Gregg in the back by trying to blame him for the Kings Dock fiasco when all he was looking for was security for the 30 million he was being asked for to secure the deal.I for one will never forgive him for that.Look at the cowshed in an awful location compared to what we could have had at Kings Dock.That is the true measure of a Chairman.
I and I am sure many other non negative true blues happen to totally agree with Gavin and I am a glass half full sort of person.
The team are doing much better now but that is no thanks to BK who also messed up the Fernades fiasco.
I often raise this question but if Billy liar only had a million to his name where do you think the 20 million to buy Johnson out came from and how did everton’s debt all of a sudden become 30 million?
He then stabbed his old friend Paul Gregg in the back by trying to blame him for the Kings Dock fiasco when all he was looking for was security for the 30 million he was being asked for to secure the deal.I for one will never forgive him for that.Look at the cowshed in an awful location compared to what we could have had at Kings Dock.That is the true measure of a Chairman.
Roy Kroft
8 Posted 16/11/2007 at 21:42:44
8 Posted 16/11/2007 at 21:42:44
Gavin,
A few holes in your BK conspiracy theory. Do you actually have factual documentary evidence of BK feeding anti Gregg stories to the press, oh I see, you ASSUME that’s what happened. Now the Kings Dock fiasco, I seem to remember, that when it came to putting up the money, Paul Gregg was asked to underwrite the £35 million needed, but refused unless he had full control of the shareholding (This is the guy who wanted to sack Moyes don’t forget!). What makes me laugh about this whole ’The Board are liars’ theory, is how short some memories are. Remember Johnson, selling players behind the managers back? This board, without major investment, have moved this club foward from annual relegation strugglers, to regular European challengers and have continually backed Moyes, with funds for the promising young side we see today, that will only get better.
Doesn’t matter much what the facts are though, some people are just born miserable.
A few holes in your BK conspiracy theory. Do you actually have factual documentary evidence of BK feeding anti Gregg stories to the press, oh I see, you ASSUME that’s what happened. Now the Kings Dock fiasco, I seem to remember, that when it came to putting up the money, Paul Gregg was asked to underwrite the £35 million needed, but refused unless he had full control of the shareholding (This is the guy who wanted to sack Moyes don’t forget!). What makes me laugh about this whole ’The Board are liars’ theory, is how short some memories are. Remember Johnson, selling players behind the managers back? This board, without major investment, have moved this club foward from annual relegation strugglers, to regular European challengers and have continually backed Moyes, with funds for the promising young side we see today, that will only get better.
Doesn’t matter much what the facts are though, some people are just born miserable.
jayharris
9 Posted 16/11/2007 at 22:21:32
9 Posted 16/11/2007 at 22:21:32
Roy
You really should deal in facts.
We are not regular European qualifiers we have qualified for Europe twice in 6 years under Moyesy.Thats not to say he is not doing a decent job but I and many others see the weakness in our club and that is Bliiy liar and his mate Wyness neither of whom Ihave any trust in.
For the record All Gregg asked for was for HIS 35million to be secured on Kings Dock not unreasonable in my opinion but as usual Billy wanted total control using other peoples money so Gregg sought his only exit route.
I know quite a few people who know regg and they all say he is a very honorable man.Try to find anyone who says the same about Kenwright.
You really should deal in facts.
We are not regular European qualifiers we have qualified for Europe twice in 6 years under Moyesy.Thats not to say he is not doing a decent job but I and many others see the weakness in our club and that is Bliiy liar and his mate Wyness neither of whom Ihave any trust in.
For the record All Gregg asked for was for HIS 35million to be secured on Kings Dock not unreasonable in my opinion but as usual Billy wanted total control using other peoples money so Gregg sought his only exit route.
I know quite a few people who know regg and they all say he is a very honorable man.Try to find anyone who says the same about Kenwright.
Mark Pendleton
10 Posted 16/11/2007 at 22:38:46
10 Posted 16/11/2007 at 22:38:46
Who’s to say it can’t be expanded to that? Yes, the corners can be filled in to improve capacity but it hasn’t been stated that extra tiers can’t be added in the future if need be.
Alan Ryder
11 Posted 16/11/2007 at 22:32:00
11 Posted 16/11/2007 at 22:32:00
......and if we build a 60,000 seater stadium it should have been a 70,000 seater and so on etc etc etc. I am not sure the mathematics can be calculated but whichever way you look at it .........you just can’t win!
In the days before 78,000 crowds there was a massive walk up to the stadium ,many couldn’t get in but would soak up the atmosphere outside. Why were there so many? Because it wasn’t on Sky or Sultana and they probably had nothing better to do!!
In the days before 78,000 crowds there was a massive walk up to the stadium ,many couldn’t get in but would soak up the atmosphere outside. Why were there so many? Because it wasn’t on Sky or Sultana and they probably had nothing better to do!!
Kevin Mitchell
12 Posted 16/11/2007 at 22:45:23
12 Posted 16/11/2007 at 22:45:23
Build a stadium of 50,000 extendable to 80,000, are you lot raving mad! Have you escaped from some secure unit.
If everton move to Kirkby I would think a 30,000 seat stadium would do with the option to make it 25,000 in ten years time and so on.
If everton move to Kirkby I would think a 30,000 seat stadium would do with the option to make it 25,000 in ten years time and so on.
Mick Mac
13 Posted 17/11/2007 at 00:14:29
13 Posted 17/11/2007 at 00:14:29
Tel you what Jay and Gavin you talk some absolute twaddle. Taking of Gregg and Kenwright. What prevented the Kings Dock for going forward was the red shites council interference asking for further financial assurances to cover any over shoot of the costs of the build. DYou cant blame BK and Wyness for that
Thommo
14 Posted 17/11/2007 at 04:56:52
14 Posted 17/11/2007 at 04:56:52
Welcome to Bill’s World!
I suppose you voted to move as well.
I suppose you voted to move as well.
Brian Waring
15 Posted 17/11/2007 at 11:42:46
15 Posted 17/11/2007 at 11:42:46
Peter,why make the stadium so that it can be extended into an 80,000 seater,when we will struggle to fill it at 50,000?
Peter Benson
16 Posted 17/11/2007 at 12:10:51
16 Posted 17/11/2007 at 12:10:51
Brian, if we don’t need to go beyond 50,000 or 60,000 then we don’t build beyond that figure simple as that. However, what if we do? No-one knows what the future will bring, There’s no harm in planning for it. The figure of 80,000 can be reached in a number of stages like at Old Trafford.
So as there’s no problem with building for expansion your argument must be against the starting capacity of 50,000, which is a separate issue to my post, I personally think that a 50,000 is a realistic starting point and does send out a bolder statement than if we only have a 40,000 capacity. Don’t forget we won’t need to sell out to make a 50,000 stadium worthwhile, anything over the current capacity of 40000 will make it worthwhile moneywise. I’m sure there will be matches below 40,000, but then we can revert to unreserved seating, always a great for atmosphere, Give away fans 3,000 tickets in a 5,000 area to make them look bad! Even reduce prices!
So as there’s no problem with building for expansion your argument must be against the starting capacity of 50,000, which is a separate issue to my post, I personally think that a 50,000 is a realistic starting point and does send out a bolder statement than if we only have a 40,000 capacity. Don’t forget we won’t need to sell out to make a 50,000 stadium worthwhile, anything over the current capacity of 40000 will make it worthwhile moneywise. I’m sure there will be matches below 40,000, but then we can revert to unreserved seating, always a great for atmosphere, Give away fans 3,000 tickets in a 5,000 area to make them look bad! Even reduce prices!
Peter Benson
17 Posted 17/11/2007 at 12:48:18
17 Posted 17/11/2007 at 12:48:18
Re Alan "and if we build a 60,000 seater stadium it should have been a 70,000 seater and so on etc etc etc. I am not sure the mathematics can be calculated but whichever way you look at it .........you just can?t win! "
Hopefully we will reach a stage where we will need a stadium more than 80,000, but at least we wil be 20,000 fans pw better off than if we only go to 60,000! Soyou’ll be wrong before I’m wrong
Hopefully we will reach a stage where we will need a stadium more than 80,000, but at least we wil be 20,000 fans pw better off than if we only go to 60,000! Soyou’ll be wrong before I’m wrong
Alex May
18 Posted 17/11/2007 at 15:02:59
18 Posted 17/11/2007 at 15:02:59
Unfortunately, it’s not stadium capacit ythta makes your club welthy. It’s the ability to fill them.
Show me a season ticket waiting list with tens of thousands on like Man U, Arsenal and Liverpool and we can have grand plans for a futue super-sized stadium.
Until then, it remains the latest ploy in Wyness’ pathetic game to rule out any possible site in Liverpool.
Show me a season ticket waiting list with tens of thousands on like Man U, Arsenal and Liverpool and we can have grand plans for a futue super-sized stadium.
Until then, it remains the latest ploy in Wyness’ pathetic game to rule out any possible site in Liverpool.
Peter Benson
19 Posted 17/11/2007 at 15:27:57
19 Posted 17/11/2007 at 15:27:57
But Alex it may be too late then, we have to plan for expansion now. What if the waiting list is in 20 years time and the stadium has been built without the foundations for a greater expansion than 60,000?
ray
20 Posted 17/11/2007 at 15:39:16
20 Posted 17/11/2007 at 15:39:16
I posted the following comments on another stream on this site but they are just as pertinent to this discussion.
"Just a quickie regarding the necessity for a "55k capacity stadium"....the last time we averaged above 40k was 1974-75. 33 years ago!! And then it was only 40,021. Prior to that it was 1970-71 when we were reigning champions, so we have to ask ourselves, why do we need a 55k arena? We haven?t managed an average over 50,000 since 62-63,the first season the Shite were in the (old )First Division. Does anyone honestly think our gates will improve in a Retail Park? Nothing is worse than a half empty stadium, with your shouts echoing around vacant stands. Remember 83-84 with an average of 19,288.....Goodison was an awful place to be.
"Just a quickie regarding the necessity for a "55k capacity stadium"....the last time we averaged above 40k was 1974-75. 33 years ago!! And then it was only 40,021. Prior to that it was 1970-71 when we were reigning champions, so we have to ask ourselves, why do we need a 55k arena? We haven?t managed an average over 50,000 since 62-63,the first season the Shite were in the (old )First Division. Does anyone honestly think our gates will improve in a Retail Park? Nothing is worse than a half empty stadium, with your shouts echoing around vacant stands. Remember 83-84 with an average of 19,288.....Goodison was an awful place to be.
Bob Fletcher
21 Posted 17/11/2007 at 23:51:41
21 Posted 17/11/2007 at 23:51:41
As a resident of Kirkby, I am cheesed off with people constantly referring to the proposed new stadium as the ’ asbodome’. At least you don’t read in the papers every other day about people being shot in Kirkby. Have some respect, after all Kirkby people are not always slagging off the city of Liverpool.
Dave Lawley
22 Posted 18/11/2007 at 10:34:39
22 Posted 18/11/2007 at 10:34:39
Gavin, does anyone really believe you when you state this stadium only has " a shelf life of 10-20 years", honestly mate £150,000,000 ought to pay for something a little bit more substantial than that don’t you think? Your comments seem to be increasingly desperate, maybe even full of shit.
Dave King
23 Posted 18/11/2007 at 22:52:36
23 Posted 18/11/2007 at 22:52:36
Team performance will determine results.Big names determine capacities.
Over to you the board
Over to you the board
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1 Posted 16/11/2007 at 18:38:09
Also people are going to look at our capacity of 50,000 and liverpools of 78,000 and draw their own conclusions; its a massive difference.