To be blunt mate you are a complete idiot. You were entrusted with a vote in one of the biggest decisions in the clubs history and after voting for a move to this proposed shithole you have now changed your mind!! fantastic. To answer your question, yes it is too fucking late. Cheers by the way, cheers to the rest of your lot too, the retail park will be tremendous i’m sure.

For years the RS have redeveloped Analfield and for years I havent given a monkeys how big it is or shiny it is, I love Goodison Park, love the atmosphere and it just feels special where it counts sitting watching the match. Yes the toilets and concession stands are shite but how hard would it be to fix them? For Christ’s sake thats a refurbishment not a rebuild. I spend plenty of time in Scotland and am often at Ibrox especially when they have Champions League games on and guess what their toilets are as shite as GP and their food stands as small and shite too but do you think for one second they would dream of moving to a retail park for a better khazi or place to buy a pie and pint?

Plenty of people were sold the doom and gloom falling down cant compete line but how are we competing now and last time I checked nothing ever fell on my head at Goodison besides a fellow fan celebrating a goal. Sold lies and too many accepted the words of a liar and a self interested money grabber, shame.

I dont normally resort to this type of language but too fucking late, Mick Gillian!

Thanks Mick - but I voted Yes and have no regrets. Not because I love Kirkby and wouldn’t much rather have moved to King’s Dock or someplace similar. Who wouldn’t?

I voted Yes because we actually do have to move pretty soon to raise more revenues if we are not going to be left seriously behind. And because unless a rich new owner comes along Kirkby is a very good deal and the best we can afford. No videos change these basic facts. I also believe Everton is a strong club with a fantastic fanbase (as shown by this site), and we will still make Kirkby into something very special. We aren’t Derby or Bolton or Middlesborough and never will be.

If you voted Yes because you thought we were going to get the Emirates in Kirkby, then I don’t think you were paying very close attention. I am more than a little surprised by the current wave of Miraculous Conversions - they saw Stubbsy and they saw the light!

To those who either originally voted No, or who have now had the Road to Damascus experience, the questions remain just the same as ever. Do you think we can stay at GP? If not, where do you want to move to apart from Kirkby THAT WE CAN AFFORD?

From Old Roan mate? Looks like you have fallen at the first hurdle.

Reap what you sow, Gillian!

"I remember going to Wigan away a few years ago and seeing there ground at the far end of a retail complex, and thinking, "this is shite,"

You answered your own fears in this statement alone even before you had the chance to vote, so why did you vote YES!? "We had no choice" Pfffffffff!

Mug!

Gavin, again you make the serious charge that Wyness is somehow personally on the make with the Kirkby deal. I’ve also asked you on another thread, would you (or anyone else) like to provide any substantiation for such a serious charge?

Lyndon, I also now note from your post that you said Kirkby was Wyness’s "meal ticket". Perhaps you would like to comment on your evidence for this?

Wyness is paid to be the CEO of Everton Football Club. I am not a huge fan of his as it happens (too many cock ups on too many fronts), but I have no evidence that he is corrupt. Others make the charge, so I would be interested in hearing the evidence. I also assume that he would still be paid as CEO of Everton if we did the Loop deal, stayed at GP, or relocated to the moon.

neil as replied on that other thread where is your ecidence he isnt? Come on its your turn to substantiate your loyalty, look at the books, look how KW has been allowed to run his own business on the club’s clock and paid performance bonuses while he was on sick leave, look at his track record in business elsewhere. Over to you Neil just so eager to see your evidence as you must surely have some with the conviction you have made on two threads. Sure Lyndon would love to hear it to as would many more that have not commented.

Just out of interest, when EFC invited questions to be put to Wyness about the move (his replies were filmed and published on the website) I asked whether he stood to make any financial gain from the move aside from his salary package from EFC. Guess what. The question was not selected.

Like others, I remain very suspicious of his motives. He is very committed to this move, despite all the negatives and risks that seem obvious to most people. The question ’Why’ remains to be propoerly answered.

See the other thread Gavin. You and others have made the corruption charge against Wyness, not me. Obviously it is up to you to provide some evidence. In a court of law it’s the prosecution that has to come up with the evidence. You are the prosecution, not me.

So what if Everton’S new stadium has a tesco next door? What difference does it make? Goodison is sorrounded by some of the shittiest property and dirtiest manky pubs and chippeis in liverpool but it makes no difference to us because it’s what’s inside that matters. Nothing has changed about the stadium since we voted on it except for the huge surprise that there is a Tesco next door (my god! why didn’t anyone tell us there was going to be a Tesco next door??????). Its not the stadium or the retail park that people are pissed off about. Its the same old issue of moving to Kirkby.

Gavin you wonder how we are able to compete now but I think you know the answer to that. We are able to compete now by going deeper and deeper into debt every year (something else you regularly complain about). But you raise a very significant point that I think underlines the commitment and success of this board.Since the eighties I cant remember the last time we were had such a strong squad or played such good football or spent so much money on players or refused to sell our better players when other clubs coveted them. Well guess what we are doing it now and if things continue in the same direction while we build this new stadium it wont matter if they build it on the moon it will be full to bursting.

I’ll be happy when the footy is back. I hate these international breaks.

Simon, perhaps Wyness is committed to the move because he thinks it is a very good deal for Everton given our financial position, and he can’t see a better one? And he thinks the much more risky things would be to sit in a decaying GP, or to borrow money to the hilt for a better stadium which we can’t afford. Has that occurred to you? Just because he disagrees with you doesn’t mean he is on the make. I disagree with you, and I don’t think Terry Leahy is planning to send me any money in brown envelopes either.

Neil and co , Why do you constantly question people to bring the evidence about Wymess wanting to cash in on this Kirkby project?
Maybe they cannot show this on paper to you but have a look at the mans short history here, it is riddled with lies and utter contempt for the wokling class fans of this club , He knows nothing about what this club means to us and he is a ruthless business man so if you think he is doing it all for the sake of us then more fool you.
Can you honestly sit there and say you trust this man with such a decision?
We all know we need new matchday facilities but it has to be right and that video in the week was not , There is something unique and different about our club as many old school fans around the country will tell you , but if this project happens then we will just be another souless club in an outlet village.
And if you honestly think we will dissapear
if we dont grasp this move then you dont know Everton.
As Mr Murphy put it the other day our bill for kirkby is rising in the £50-£80 mill bracket but hey we cannot afford to develop Goodison !!!
I run my own company so have some experince on marketing etc and I cannot fathom for one single minute how these men are even contemplating running away from the fastest growing city in europe to a town bordering farmlands ! its gross missmanagement in my eyes, but who am to question a man who can give himself huge page rises (LAST YEAR) when his company has made such a big loss.

Paul, the serious point about all this is that I believe that we need to discuss the different ground options that Everton now has on their merits. This is, as everyone agrees, perhaps the most important decision in the club’s history. It should not be clouded by unsubstantiated corruption claimst hat Wyness (and even Kenwright from some) are moving to Kirkby for their own benefit rather than the club’s. I do actually thing it is a disgrace to accuse people of being corrupt with no evidence whatsoever. But my greater concern is that this is a complete distraction from focusing on the important issues.

In my view this is an extremely tough choice for the club, with no easy answers, and there are very good arguments on both sides of the question regarding Kirkby. I wish we would talk about those rather than making silly unsubstantiated allegations.

Its like the fuckin X files on here with all the conspiracy theories.....and the gobshite "we told you so mob"...as it has been pointed out,everybody knew that a Tesco amongst other things was going to be nearby...It was always going to be in or part of a retail park...Do you people only read the bits you like?

If Wyness and Kenright are corrupt then why are they giving players long term contracts? Why are they investing in new young hungry players of international quality?

Its always the same..DONT LET THE TRUTH GET IN THE WAY OF A GOOD MOAN...

Can anybody honestly tell me what difference it will make to have clean well lit walkways to the ground, parking for 1000 cars...and better facilities inside...ON A NEGATIVE NOTE? because I cant find any....

When you are watching young vaughny putting his third past the red shite in 2011..to go with AJ’s brace...will you be thinking.."That was great ..but Tesco is next door ..so its spoilt it for me?

And of course the question that none of the "NO " crowd or LCC or Bestway..or marsh or gavin or anyone can answer..

What else is their, how much will it cost..and of course who will pay for it...

You dont walk into a car showroom with £500 in your pocket and drive away in a brand new rolls royce....But with £60,000 in your pocket you can get a top of the range BMW......

In this case will get a bit more than our moneys worth ,because we are getting help from Tesco and KBC in one form or another...not because they love us..but because it benefits them...(thats public knowledge as well)..and surprisingly..that benefits us too..

And if it all goes well , if we have a brand new stadium..and save millions in getting it..well i hope Wyness gets a big fat bonus..cos thats his job ..to do the best for Everton Football Club..with the resources at his disposal..

People are entitled to change their minds
Mick Gillian isnt the baddy, he voted yes because that crook Wyness led him and thousands more up th garden path with a shiny presentation designed to sway the undecided
Neil
The evidence of Bullys lack of intergrity is in front of your eyes, look at the presentation on the eve of the vote and then look at the current crop of pictures. Mark my words the next set of picture will show further deterioration, by the time the Kirkby project was complete it would be unrecognisable from the one presented by this twat
If / when this deal goes belly up Bully will be out of here as if he was fired out of a cannon, anything to gain ? of course he has

Terry, the thing is though:

"When you are watching young vaughny putting his third past the red shite in 2011..to go with AJ?s brace...will you be thinking.."That was great ..but Tesco is next door ..so its spoilt it for me?

And of course the question that none of the "NO " crowd or LCC or Bestway..or marsh or gavin or anyone can answer.."

I don’t think many of the NO crowd will be there, I know I certainly am never gonna step foot in it(I’ll go to aways)

Dave, personally I knew before the vote there was going to be a Tescos next door to our ground. Everybody did. Terry Leahy wrote an article on the club’s official fucking website for God’s sake! The only ’shock! horror!’ here is to people who are against Kirkby anyway, or who simply weren’t paying attention. Fair play to the genuine Nos, but this has nothing to do with anybody’s integrity.

The real issues are not about integrity. They are about the fact that we have to move from GP, and are looking for the best option that we can actually afford. It really is time for the Nos to leave off the conspiracy theories and the personal attacks, and start telling us where there are better options than Kirkby which can be delivered in the forseeable future and which we can actually finance without going into much worse levels of debt.

Terry

Just had a quick check of the dazzling images sent to me with my vote, cant see where we are a mere extention to Tescos
in fact can even see Tescos
As for the comment that no voters dont have alternatives, it may have escaped your notice.but the club, on entering there murky exclusivity agreement, flatly refused to listen to any,

Dave, maybe that’s because the other options are all inferior to Kirkby? Our good friends the Reds dismissed the Loop out of hand too. Perhaps they are stupid and corrupt as well? Or just maybe it’s actually not a very viable option for a major football stadium....

Neil

Dont get me wrong, I also knew Tescos would be a neighbour, I merely pointed to the presentation to prove The custodians deliberately mislead the fans, the images presented then and the ones presented now could hardly contrast more
I dont understand how you fail to see that financially, its now imperative for Kenright + Wyness to push throught this move
these are not conspiricy theories they are financial facts of life
I have no axe to grind with yes voters, I believe they act in what they consider the best interest of the club, but given track records and the underhaded way this whole fucking shambles has been mismanaged is it any wonder the fanbase is split in two

Neil <
You claim the other options are inferior to Kirkby, the club never listened or even attempted to explore other options so how do you know that ? br />the Reds did not dismiss the loop out of hand, they just found a better option
Conspiricy ? bollocks, their custodians are just far more astute than ours,

Graham! That is the funniest and the saddest thing I have heard on the subject. I take it you are a grown man? You sound like my 3 year old in a strop.

Dave Wilson.

Liverpool were offered the loop and dismissed it because it was too small. That is fact. Not conjecture. Everton have done the same.

If that isn’t overwhelming evidence that the site is too smal, then I don’t know what is ? Why do you refuse to accept it ?

Everton looked at other options. Do you think that they sat down at a Board meeting one evening and said "Right, we need a new ground but it has to be in Kirkby, so that’s the only option we’ll explore" ?

And how were we misled ? Everyone with an ounce of common sense (It appears there were plenty with none at all) knew that the new ground would be situated in close proximity to the revamped Kirkby town centre and the big Tesco, didn’t they ? What’s changed ?

Dave Wilson, first of all I do appreciate your friendly tone on all this! But continuing the debate...

It is financially imperative FOR THE CLUB to push through a ground move. I think Bill and Keith are going to be fine either way. That’s my point: it is not about personal gain, it is about what is best for the club.

Secondly. only fools were misled by the pre-vote presentation on Kirkby. The whole point then, as now, was that this was basically a deal with Tescos. Nothing significant has changed. I have no idea why the Damascene Converts are so shocked.

Thirdly, on the Reds. As Tom has said, both Everton and Liverpool have dismissed the Loop on the basis that it is too small. That is because it is too small. And, the Reds may or may not more astute than us, but the whacking great difference is THE REDS ARE A LOT RICHER THAN US. There, I’ve said it. That is why they are building on Stanley Park and we aren’t. No more, no less.

Finally, again following Tom. We are going to Kirkby not because Bill or Keith have their hands in the till, nor because for some reason they prefer Kirkby to a £200 million stadium in the centre of the city. I’m sure they would love to be building on Stanley Park just as much as the rest of us. We are going to Kirkby because, given our financial situation, it is the best deal we can afford. Until anyone comes up with a better one (no sign yet), or until we are taken over by a billionaire (no sign yet), it actually is the best deal we can afford. Reality sometimes hurts.

It is with sadness that I am forced to record on this thread my utter shame at the behaviour of some of the fans of the club which owns my heart, in footballing terms.

For people to make casual and unsubstantiated allegations of corruption, against anyone, and then, when challenged to provide evidence to support this, reply that the accused ought to provide evidence of their innocence, is utterly, utterly obscene. It’s like living in Stalinist Russia. How, ffs, do you produce evidence of something you have not done.

Please, please, you people (you know who you are) grow up or shut up! Your actions are as shameful and embarrassing as those who used to throw bananas at black players (I’ve seen that at Goodison, and heard the ’monkey grunts’

Sooner or later this site will get shut down, or its owners sued for publishing libel, and then where would you moan!

Tom /Neil
Guys this is my last post on this thread, I respect both your points of view but we are not going to ever change each others minds on this issue
The reds have a slightly more ambitious plan than us - yes Neil your right they do have more financial clout than us - but they did get a better alternative and took it, thats fact.
Before I finish though I must point out that I wasnt only refering to the loop, I was refering to all alternatives ones that have been talked about and maybe others that havent even been considerd, and this is my point, THIS IS ALSO THE FUNDAMENTAL STUMBLING BLOCK FOR ALL OF US NO VOTERS.
When the custodians of our club entered into their exclusivity agreement they closed all other options, and they have afforded zero time since the vote to exploring any, how dare they not leave any stone unturned ?
The best option ? These guys went completely out of their way to ensure there could be no other option, Why ?
If they publically explored all possibilities and Kirkby was still the best deal we’d go to Kirkby as one
Call it self interest, call it arrogance, call it incompetence or call it bone fucking idleness, but whatever your take on it, until they publically anounce that before they lead EFC out of the city, they will allocate a short period where they will listen to anyone who thinks they have a better offer, the fact is. there are tens of thousands of us will never accept this as the "deal of the century"

Chris Jones

pull yourself together man, I accused Bully of being deceptive and of leading people up the garden path I also said he lacked integrity,
Libel ? your having a laugh, do you really think if I brought the latest images and the original prensentation into a court of law that my claims would be proved unsubstantiated ? get real, I stand by them

Totally agree Chris.

It seems that, instead of offering constructive debate on this or any EFC related issue, a seemingly large minority of people feel that cheap, unsubstatiated, character assasinations are the way to go on this - "Wyness thrown out of Australia" (utter bollocks), "Kenwright’s pension plan (I thought EFC was his ’train set’ and he’ll never let it go ?) etc, etc....

The ground move is an emotive issue, there’s not doubt about that. But to cheapen the argument with this daily nonsense does some ’no’ voters no favours at all. KEIOC no doubt started with the best of intentions but have now degenerated into a name-calling anti-Kirkby organisation. They lost my sympathy when they decided to use video footage of the ’Battle of Everton valley’ as evidence of the behaviour of the supporters of the club whose interests they purport to hold dear.

Maybe some of you would be better off jacking it all in and finding something else to moan about ?

Dave Wilson. On this very thread, and in the same post, you call KW "that crook" and "a twat". My 20+ years of working in the law suggests to me such statements could be deemed libellous.

Like I said, please grow up or shut up!

People who vote one way and then try and backtrack are mental. You yes voters made the bed for everyone to lye in and Everton are now almost certain to lose one of the last remaining true Football Stadiums in England’s top flight. It’s a disgrace but the chance to say no has gone - live with your ill made decision.

Neil, you say you want proof of this and that, yet you voted for something with absolutely no proof or solid financial figures at all. No transport assessment. We now have the situation where Wyness himself has stated that Kirkby will cost EFC £50m minimum, more recently these costs appear to have risen to £80m. This was "practically nothing" in the ballot lead up. Please tell me you know this pre-vote, and still believe it to be the ONLY option. Wyness has sold this from angle that there is no plan B since nothing else is deliverable. He has staked his whole reputation and therefore career on that assertion..... that’s why we had the most sustained propoganda campaign in the media throughout the ballot. At £50m or more redevelopment is more than deliverable it is infact desirable, at £80m it is a necessity. Believe me, if Kirkby was that good it would sell itself, as did the Kings Dock project.

As far as Mick Gillian is concerned..... fairplay for having the guts to admit you have been "had". I don’t blame anyone who fell for the hardsell. They were only given one option, a one horse race to bet on, and even then they couldn’t get over half the electorate to back them. That should tell you a lot about the quality of what is on offer at Kirkby.

This offering of the Loop business:

As far as I’m aware.....Trevor Skempton was the guy responsible for unearthing the Loop as an option for Everton FC. This was several years after LFC were well on the way to securing Stanley Park. This was only put to the council earlier this year.

HOK the largest stadium designing outfit in the world have assessed the site. Their report has only just been reported on in the Echo, months after it was released. They are the world authorities, and they have shoehorned bigger stadiums into tighter spots..... Emirates and Millenium stadium to name 2 relatively local ones, so all these assertions stated as facts seem to contradict reality. Quite frankly, the loop can be whatever it wants to be in stadium terms, there is nothing prohibitive in its shape nor its scale, and certainly nothing in terms of its ideal location regarding transport networks/logistics.

As far as Liverpool being astute in rejecting the loop, when did that happen? Can we also assume that they are therefore also astute for staying close to their existing stadium and not retreating to a nice blank canvas out in the sticks?

Chris Jones...... what does stating "there is no plan B" and Kirkby will cost "practically nothing" constitute in legal terms? Especially when you later reveal (post vote) that it will actually cost £50m min.......?!

For fucks sake Mike Gillian what did you think it was going to look like? You voted yes, so you need to back the club now. For me the most importat factor will not be the Tesco’s next to it or how it looks. It will be how it feels, how it sounds that defines the stadium. GP is a shithole from the outside, but truely special when the ball hits the back of the net. It will be what we make of it when we move. For a start, we will fill the ground, unlike Wigan and Bolton, so you cannot compare us.

This is just some fake visual representation of what the stadium is going to be like, there is nothing tangible about it, but all the no voters have used it as another excuse for a moan.WE the FANS can make this place special if we want to, fuck the RS, fuck the business and economics behind it, its about us and what atmospere we create.

Chris jones
That man sent me a presentation that was totally inaccurate and decieptful, prove to me that doesnt makes him a crook, in a libel case he would have to prove me wrong , think he could ?

Chris Masey says:

"fuck the business and economics behind it, its about us and what atmospere we create. "

Isn’t that the most precise definition of "ignorance is bliss" on any thread connected to this subject? And doesn’t it illustrate only too vividly that people voted YES with absolutely no foundations other than the club were promoting it and provided a few glossy images to back it up. Who needs facts and figures eh? Well the daylight images are more illuminating, and less inspiring..... and the real costs are finally being revealed, of sorts, and some yes voters are having second thoughts. I wonder how many of the abstainers would vote YES now.

Neil Pearse: "Lyndon, I also now note from your post that you said Kirkby was Wyness?s "meal ticket". Perhaps you would like to comment on your evidence for this?"

It?s a turn of phrase, Neil, that was not intended to imply corruption on Keith Wyness? part, I want to make that categorically clear.

As CEO Wyness has a job to do, and clearly one of the most important aspects is to find a solution to the pressing concern of the state of Goodison Park. He has found a "deliverable" solution that may not be ideal but if it succeeds it?ll get Everton into a new stadium for less capital than would have been required from the club had they gone out on their own.

It constitutes his "meal ticket" in two ways: First, Wyness will, I am sure, get a bonus for bringing the project to fruition. Standard corporate practice and he?d expect nothing less. Second, he will be able to move on from Everton with having delivered a new stadium for a Premier League club on his CV (he failed at Aberdeen).

Within those parameters, he is doing his job and, whether it?s truly in the club?s best interests or not, appears to be doing everything to protect that project and ensure that Kirkby happens, despite the existence of other options that are less "deliverable" at this stage (e.g. Scotland Road being a more complicated option) or less glamourous for one?s portfolio (redeveloping Goodison Park).

If ? and I?m not saying it?s true but it?s a charge that has been leveled at them by vociferous "no" voters ? between himself, Kenwright and Leahy they are deliberately eschewing other options because as a collective they stand to make more money in Kirkby, then you?re into a very grey area where the word "corruption" is concerned.

So, in short, I?m not accusing Wyness of being corrupt but it does look from my seat as though he is taking a course of action that is most beneficial to him ("Keith?s already on the train to Kirkby" ? quote attibuted to one Bill Kenwright); we, as fans, get to argue over whether that?s also what?s best for Everton.

Responding to Tom Hughes first. As far as I am aware the only thing I have asked for proof relates to the corruption allegations against Wyness. As I’ve said on the Tony Marsh thread, I actually don’t need Wyness’s word to tell me that Kirkby will have better economics than the Loop because it is so bloody obvious. Is it cheaper to build a stadium on a big greenfield space with Tescos and Knowsley, or shoehorn one into a traffic island with Bestway and the LCC....? I wonder....

To Lyndon, thanks for your explanation. I think you were the least guilty here, although given what you say I think your choice of words was unwise and misleading. Unfortunately it is common on this site and very unhelpful to turn all this into conspiracy theories and personal attacks on Wyness and Kenwright (as well as on Yes voters such as myself).

By painting W & K as basically in it for themselves, No voters avoid taking seriously the good arguments for doing Kirkby: namely that it is the best option that we can actually afford. I think it is pretty likely that W & K are supporting Kirkby because they think it is the best thing, given all the factors involved, for the club. They are spending some time on other options (as we hear), but not a great deal because after many years of looking at this issue they sincerely don’t believe that they are practically and financially viable.

Rather than abuse a better No response would be to demonstrate that, broadly speaking, there is another, better affordable option (and before you get going Tom, we don’t need it to the nearest £). Otherwise you can rather see W & K’s point in forging ahead, after all these years, on the best option that seems to be actually available to us.

I have just looked on bluekipper.com and it says that Bully is paid £426,000 a year, for doing what exactly?!?!?! Moving the club people love to outside the city and to a retail park and the Tescos stadium. He doesnt care, so long as he gets his money, he doesnt care. he is perfectly happy, and in 5 years time, when he has destroyed the heart and soul of the club, as well as turning fans against each other, as opposed to the board and directors, he will walk away very happy with his millions in his pocket

Neil said:
"As I?ve said on the Tony Marsh thread, I actually don?t need Wyness?s word to tell me that Kirkby will have better economics than the Loop because it is so bloody obvious."

Well why are you having problems showing it then? Just saying it’s better economics without responding to the figures offered by Wyness himself means absolutely nothing. What about the better economics that has led to so many new US stadia being built in downtown areas over the past 15 years or so? What about the detrimental economic effects of deserting the centre of your fanbase catchment area to a place with only a fraction of the public transport capacity and only 1,000 space carpark, especially in a city of two football clubs with the lowest car ownership of any provincial city? If out of town is so lucrative how come Grosvenor are not building their massive developments on the city’s outskirts? I gave you Wyness’s own numbers you still gave me it’s so "bloody obvious." What is so obvious when for the same price or less we can have continuity and preservation of history and tradition on the same site? What economic value would you put on that?


"Is it cheaper to build a stadium on a big greenfield space with Tescos and Knowsley, or shoehorn one into a traffic island with Bestway and the LCC....? I wonder.... "

There you go again..... Is it cheaper to build one or 2 new stands at GP or build the lot in one go elsewhere? You have no idea how much the Bestway option would cost Everton, yet you assume it is more expensive than Kirkby. Bestway have already said that they forecast that the clubs contribution would be of the order of £60m. But that is almost immaterial since your argument is based solely on pre-vote led conjecture. Pardon the pun but the goal posts have moved significantly, what you voted for is certainly not what is being painted now. "Practically nothing" is expensive nowadays. For all intents and purposes the Loop is as much a blank canvas as any greenfield site, there are only a few warehouses on it. Meanwhile there are houses, care centre and a school on the green field site in the proposals. Furthermore the infrastructure in the city centre regarding mass transit and accessibility cannot be matched anywhere else in the city, and certainly not in Kirkby. The economics of opportunity having the venue on top of the biggest city-centre redevelopment project in Europe and more importantly joining other inner city projects already underway far outweigh any such possibilities at an overspill housing estate regardless of Tescos involvement. You’re right that certainly doesn’t need the cost to the last penny, but then again I’ve never asked for that, but to the nearest £50m would be nice!!

Neil

You completely missed the point. Wyness might believe this is the best deal for Everton. I merely invited him to state clearly that he did not stand to gain personally from the deal. He declined to answer. I haven’t accused him, merely given him the opportunity to be clear with the fans. We are left to speculate on this an many other aspects of this deal of the century.