ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

We are Everton

The whole stadium debate was never very far away was it? A couple of "not what the brochure said" images and an international weekend and away we go, the hatred, the insults, the name calling...

I'd like to declare early that I voted no, if the vote was done again I`d still vote no, but I have total respect for the opinions of the guys who voted yes.
I`ve listened carefully to the endless claims from both sides — "we`re the real Evertonians, we won't go" or "we're the true Blues, we`ll go anywhere" It would be funny if...

We argue about who is in the majority — "we got 15,000 votes" from the yes camp, is countered by "there's 60,000 of us in total so 15,000 constitutes a minority. Just about every Evertonian has learned to play with stats, lies, damn lies etc.

The fact is our fanbase is split in two. Yes, we've all been on cloud nine recently with events on the pitch, but the agression towards each other, the sense of betrayal expressed on both sides shows that heroics on the pitch only serve to mask this deep divide.

Everton's strength isn't Goodison Park, it won't be Kirkby if that happens. Our strength will never be the place we hang our hat. Everton's strength, uniqueness, the thing that sets us apart is us.You and me, the Evertonians. We are Everton.

Guys, we are in real danger of pressing the self-destruct button here. We can't afford our differences to become irreconsilible; if we do we`re finished, we really do become Wigan/ Boro/ Bolton ( no disrepect meant to those clubs).

I believe the custodians have created this divide and I believe they are obligated to at least try to heal it. Lets have the custodians to come and talk to us, answer EVERY question — not just the ones they have good answers for.

Let's hear them say they have or will explore any decent alternative and if its a non-starter, explain why. Lets have forums where every fear or suspicion is tackled,

Standing in front of a hired camera crew answering pre-arranged questions will never get the no voters on board. Let's have these guys tell us the exclusivity clause has been put to one side — if only to stop the finger of suspicion being pointed — for a period of say 9 -12 months. What is a year in the scheme of things?

I know the yes voters will say "why should they" but you guys are already on board, you've been won over. We all want, sorry need, a unified Everton and doing nothing will not bring that about.

Dave Wilson, Liverpool Posted 18/11/2007 at 05:46:49

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Comments

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norman merrill
1 Posted 18/11/2007 at 07:40:07

Well put Dave, reading some of the comments printed on this site, does suggest that there is a deep divide.

Danny Mullally
2 Posted 18/11/2007 at 09:23:32

Dave,

Excellent post and I wholeheartedly agree the division between the fans over this issue needs addressing. Believe me if we stop producing the goods on the pitch then this issue will get a lot uglier.
I voted no, but only because I felt that we were not being told the full story-thanks largely to Wyness’s conduct throughout this debacle with his "No plan B and Deal of the century" statements. I thought to myself: we are fucking Everton, a diamond in the crown of the best league in the world, with a glorified history spanning nearly 130 years, with a very bright future. How can a prefab in Kirkby take us forward to the next 130 years?
Dave you ae right-if I did see the board answer some REAL questions and not pre-arranged ones then I would certainly be prepared to reconsider my views, but lets be realistic here, they have not agreed to meet with any opposing views to the move face to face. They don’t need to-they have the "majority". PR machine working a treat.
Ironically when Terry Leahy released his open letter, his honesty almost turned my head tothe Yes vote. But then I remembered-he is not the Everton Chairman, or Chief Executive, he is the Tesco CEO. We should have seen this level of honesty and transparency from our own board instead of the propaganda machine that has totally alienated upto half the fanbase.

Tim Lloyd
3 Posted 18/11/2007 at 10:46:05

I may be naive but I really can’t understand why the contributors to these boards believe the Chairman and Directors should alter their opinions in any way to appease them.

At the end of the day, they are simply supporters who pay their dues at the turnstiles in the same way as people pay their money at the theatre or the cinema.

They may buy replica shirts etc but this is a completely voluntary thing as is supporting the team.

If they really want to exercise some influence, they will need to put some large amounts of money into the running of the club, become a Director or endeavour to apply for the position of the CEO, for which, no doubt, they will need some credentials.

I confess I find the insulting remarks directed at the Chairman and the CEO from some contributors wholly unacceptable.

I am quite aware that this and other boards are quite independent of the club but feel sure that constructive criticism could possibly influence the powers that be but much of the comments made by some are more likely to do the very opposite.

Gerard Madden
4 Posted 18/11/2007 at 11:55:54

I agree and disagree with this article, yes there is a split but no it’s not a large split - I hardly think a couple o’ dozen protesting after one of our matches out of 36,000 Evertonians is evidence of a large enduring split, the vote itself showed only 28% of eligable voters voted against the Kirkby move with the rest either in favour or not caring where we play - small messageboards and forums are the only places where the small minority can vent their frustrations and most of the rest of us ’yes’ voting blues have to understand that and I do understand that regardless of what some people might think.

Oh dear who’ve I upset now I say to myself? Harmless post that doesn’t attack anyone but it’ll rile someone no doubt going on my past posts.

Rob Jones
5 Posted 18/11/2007 at 12:21:00

well put, before the kirkby debate, who would have thought that the peoples club would be split in half over something that should be positive for the club.

Tom Hughes
6 Posted 18/11/2007 at 12:56:48

Tim, we are the club, not the board. We stop going the club ceases to exist. We don’t just buy into this like some ordinary product this a life choice, and for many of us with generations of ancestors who made the same choice before us or this board were even thought of. I’m also a share holder, I own a part of this club, therefore if I believe there has been incompetence, misconduct or that our fanbase has been blatently misled I am obliged to say so....... but no more so than the any Evertonian. The admission by Wyness himself that Kirkby will cost the club £50m min shows that the fans were totally misled before and during the ballot. This figure is increasing all the time! If that doesn’t alarm you I don’t know what would.

Gavin Ramejkis
7 Posted 18/11/2007 at 14:02:11

No matter what anyone posts, the entrenched such as myself, Tony Marsh and Gerard Madden and Terry Maddock at opposites wont be swayed by new arguments we simply have differing views, we post and infuriate our opposites and get similar responses.

Everton FC’s management team have created a civil war of words and ill feelings that will now live on for decades.

Gerard Madden
8 Posted 18/11/2007 at 14:11:44

Gavin - I agree!.....With your first paragraph - though I must say I personally don’t get infuriated with other people’s posts.

Neil Styles
9 Posted 18/11/2007 at 14:20:01

I probably sound incredibly naive but I trust our board will ultimately make the right decision for the future of our beloved team.
Now I havent followed Liverpool’s new stadium plans (because its Them and I dont really care where they go) but I do care that the reds are set to move to Stanley Park. Thats as much ours as it is theirs- even more ours in terms of history and the fact that we are considerably older than they are.
As plans to build a joint stadium fell through, did the Everton board or whoever not even put up a fight to build our new stadium there?

Bill Dickie
10 Posted 18/11/2007 at 14:29:07

I really feel that the whole ground debate is a bit of a non-starter, these days it really doesn?t matter that much where you play. The nuts and bolts of what occur at a club are at the ?finch farms?, if the training facilities are state of the art you attract players and imporve your youngsters. The stadium is where the first team goes to play 19 times a year in the premier league and maybe another 10-15 in the cups (so once every two weeks). As long as the stadium holds a decent amount, is not totally shite but on the level with most other premiership and top european sides, who cares? The stadium means a whole lot more to us (the fans) as we associate it as the face of Everton, wheras really it is a very small part of the club.

Dave Wilson
11 Posted 18/11/2007 at 14:12:47

Gerrard
Thats precisely my point !
straight away your in with "my stats are the real ones" approach, inviting someone to counter with their idea of the true stats.
The reason you upset so many people with your "harmless comments" is because you persist in distorting the truth by speaking on behalf of others when you have no right to do so.
The facts are the vote went 15000 yes, 10,000 no, - not a tiny split a massive one
How on earth do you arrive at the conclusion that the 11,000 who abstained either were in favour of the move or dont mind. ? could it be they were just plain undecided ? Whatever their reasons you have absolutely no right to speak on their behalf

Tom Hughes
12 Posted 18/11/2007 at 14:19:36

Gavin/Gerard I am not affiliated to a yes or a no vote....... I am an Evertonian first and foremost as far as this argument is concerned. If new information was released that answered some of my concerns I would be forced to reassess my stance, this has been my view throughout. Yes or No is not my creed, it is not and should never be an "us and them" polarised stand off, it is the stuff that backs up our beliefs that matters, and if that changes we all owe it to ouselves to think it through again. It should never be a personal confrontation based on your opinion of individuals on here. That is in no-one’s best interests, least of all the club’s. Some details of the Kirkby scheme are begining to come out..... they appear to seriously contradict the info supplied pre-vote. Hence the reason why some are thinking twice or even changing tack.

Roy coyne
13 Posted 18/11/2007 at 21:55:30

To be honest it would take a lot for me to change my mind,one of my biggest fears was that we were by voting yes blindly trusting our leaders as not enough true information was or still is forthcoming and my fears appear to be confirmed with every little snippet of truth,the answer to bring all fans together is in all honesty beyond me I accept that the yes camp are just as good blues fans as the no but I know there is deep resentment on both sides some posters feeling slighted by the likes of Mr Madden but equally I myself have let my anger and frustration out with over the top post at times

blubyu
14 Posted 18/11/2007 at 22:25:52

no yes no divide
if the club moves those that go - go
those that dont - dont
but everton is forever for those that want

Brian Hughes
15 Posted 19/11/2007 at 00:27:30

For those "pie in the sky" dreamers, I would love to know where we start to find the money for the plan Bs at bettabuy etc. The board, rightly in my opinion believe Kirkby to be an extremely financialy viable option, as we will end up paying a fraction of the true cost of a stadium. This in turn will not burden our future generations with a massive mortgage, for a team who already sail by the breadline from year to year. The board of our club stand to benefit from excatly the same thing that the fans will. A new ground. There is no other secret, or underlying reason for their support in the project. I personally think the City council should have forced us to share with Liverpool. This would have been the best and most sensible idea for all concerned.

James Baber
16 Posted 19/11/2007 at 12:12:55

Surely, the most important consideration for a football club are people - the players, the management and the supporters - not where you play.