I do not like out of town retail parks but the second I am inside the ground and order my warm pint, I will not give a toss if there is a dodgy Tesco Store right next to the stadium.

My mind will be firmly on the game not what is going outside

I voted to move and admit I was a little disappointed by the images of the new ground surrounded by shops. I would have preferred the ground to be a stand alone ground and now we know why the only images of it were at night. Then I began to think, surely being surrounded by shops is far better than being surrounded by Victorian streets, some of which have semi derelict properties and being totally dominated on the other side by their new ground.

Why don’t the Keep it in the City crew get the message. THE CITY DID NOT WANT YOU. That’s why the club went elsewhere. Tony’s comment is correct once you are in the ground it won’t matter where it is.

Since the big dig, we have not been shopping in Liverpool City Centre for 4 years.
We usually shop now at the Speke Retail Park or the Trafford Centre, which can be considered out of town compared to Manchester City Centre.
The reason why we go there is free parking within close proximity to the shops. The Trafford Centre is indoors so you don?t get wet and cold either.
Having said that if you go to Speke on a Saturday or Sunday expect to queue to get in and queue to get out for quite a while and cruise round looking for a parking space.
As regards to the Trafford Centre, we spent an hour yesterday attempting to leave the car park at 4pm just to get on the M60.
Therefore for shopping purposes ONLY out of town developments are very popular otherwise they wouldn?t be so crowded.
However if you put a football stadium next to or within a shopping development which will stage approximately 25 weekend games a season it means one thing only to the retailers that day, the SHOPPERS who usually jam pack these places every weekend wont go that day.
They won?t go to avoid bigger traffic jams which will be 10 times worse that day and to avoid the big crowd of football supporters they probably will not wish to mingle with and the parking lots will be heaving so they would have to park quite a distance away. If you want to shop at Tesco you don?t want to push your trolley a significant distance from the store which you will have to that day.
What sort of income will the football fans bring to the shops, the café?s will do well, the shops will sell plenty of sausage rolls and cans of coke but the family shopper who might put a £150 worth of shopping in their trolley for the weekend shop will avoid Tesco that day and put their money into Asda in Kirby or Sainsburys? in Walton.
On top of that you will get the little old ladies who will look on every football fan as some sort of hooligan who will rob their handbag if you don?t hold it very tight who will keep well away
If I was not a football fan or even worse a RS I wouldn?t go near Kirkby on match day. I would like to see Tesco?s income for a Saturday with a match and without a match and the average spend per customer. I would bet now, they have far less spent in their store because fans will buy snacks and have no interest in filling up their boot with their weekly shop before the match (the ice cream will have melted by then).
New Football stadium?s should be stand alone arenas surrounded by a nice car park away from shoppers, bowling alleys and cine complexes.
So in summary to all what I have said is out of town shopping developments and football stadiums do not go together

Out of town retail developments suit their purpose and are popular for the free parking as city centres such as Liverpool and Manchester charge you ridiculous fees to park.
I couldnt give a toss personally whether the stadium has a Tesco next door or terrace houses, chippies and a Bargain Booze.

The architecture of the stadium is not to everyone?s taste but what surrounds the stadium should not be a distraction to you when your watching the game. I think most Kirkby no voters are blokes more upset the ground is not surrounded by pubs like Goodison is for the pre-match pint which is of more concern to them, most of you blokes guzzle your pints down and spend half the match having a piss. I bet it is the only time you're out from under the wife's apron strings so you have to take advantage by dowing a few scoops while she isn't there, and the fact this new ground is surrounded by places other than boozers is what upsets you.

Yes - now please shut up.

Not yet another purile "boundary article" angle on the Kirkby debate. Been done to death mate, change the bloody record, its boring.

People make stadiums - stadiums don’t make people.

The Loop (for all its advantage of being in the boundary) as an alternative will have retail outlets round it. strange how that won’t matter isn’t it?

Part of it, through Project Jennifer, would be funded by Tesco (funny how that’s OK if in town, but not if its "out of town").

Parking in Liverpool City Centre? Have you tried it? Will it be easier than "out of town" shopping? strange how its worst "out of town" than in town. Get real mate.

When I am in the new Kirkby, the Loop, or re-develped Goodison stadia, my first, second, and last thought will be Everton tonking the team that we are pitted against - Not whether Tesco’s or any other retail outlet / hotel chain are outside, or within easy access so that I can pick up some groceries on the way home (as welcome as that maybe).

Fortunately, the majority of Everton fans will feel exactly the same.

Mary Bergin I have gone to the matches for 50 years and since drink driving came into force have not had a drink in Walton and I’m not alone instead of looking for stupid reasons,please listen to what people say I dont care about what happens to the shops or pubs around the ground,when we were going I was delighted and if everything was right about Kirkby I would go but thats not going to happen is it, the ground is going to be piss poor the time getting away after games is going to be worse than Bolton simply because of volume of traffic I could go on but whats the point.

GROUNDSHARE in the Park.

The only sensible solution for our neighbours and ourselves !

I wouldnt be surprised if football fans are not allowed to park in the Tesco carpark on match days as they will be reserved for shoppers only. I can see now a lot of argie bargie going on in the carpark match day. Do they allow you to park if you buy something it will be bedlam there.
Going home will be then like trying to get out of the Trafford Centre on the Sunday before Xmas, every match day. If your lucky you will home in time for the lottery draw.

OK, Mark Perry, if you really like it, then I’ll shut up.

Steve,

Do you feel genuinely proud of Goodison at the moment ? Not love or affection, but pride ?

Do you feel proud that its surrounded by dreary terraced houses in an equally dreary area of the city ?

Does the football grounds surroundings make one iota of difference to how you feel when your team are 3-0 up on a Saturday afternoon ?

Hello, 21st century. Prepare to welcome several thousand individuals, kicking and screaming, into your midst.

Tom Morris name me one ground in England that is located in a leafy suburb.There are none because Football was a working class sport untill a few years ago thats why Goodison is in as you call it a dreary area.Dont think Everton would of built there ground in Mossley Hill or Allerton all those years ago for some reason.Some of the shite you yes men come out with makes me want to spew up.Idiotic excuses you come
up with to defend your pathetic reasons for voting yes .FFS get a grip you tit,Once EFC leave for Kirkby then thats it we are fucked.Our fan base will suffer so much the plastic cowshed will be half empty you fool.Wake the fuck up to whats happening or shut the fuck up. Who said it was Kopites who are Gobshites????

Another well considered point from TM everyone knows yor stand on this and at times it has been made out very well.

However this sort of response is pitiful, in a heated siscussion yes you would somewhat expect it, but there are no excuses on the net, when you type it then read it, then send it.Disagree if you must but a least be consider that saying things in a certain way ensures people concentrate on the way the message is made rather than what the message says.

Ajamu said:
"People make stadiums - stadiums don?t make people."

Ajamu, I think this is only partially true..... a stadium isn’t just a passive backdrop. It’s design can greatly affect the experience, the atmosphere, the range of different views and how we interact with our fellow blues etc. All stadia have different characteristics in these respects.

"The Loop (for all its advantage of being in the boundary) as an alternative will have retail outlets round it. strange how that won?t matter isn?t it?"

I believe the enabling targets for the Loop are not retail, but commercial/residential mix with only small retail if any at all since as you say there is so much of this already in the vicinity.

"Parking in Liverpool City Centre? Have you tried it? Will it be easier than "out of town" shopping? strange how its worst "out of town" than in town. Get real mate."

The city centre has several thousand parking spaces, and there is plenty of open areas surrounding the Loop site for more if required, but the point is: this site should require very few since every single district of Merseyside has regular direct bus, train or even ferry services to the city centre. Most have several different services serving the city centre. There is also a mainline train station within 5mins walking distance. Some of the new downtown stadia in the US are being built with next to no car parking for this precise reason. The club has stated there only 1000 spaces available in the Kirkby scheme, there is also only approx 4,000 public transport places/hr which means that this stadium will be heavily car dependent, even at 4 people per car that’ll require approx 10,000 spaces for a capacity crowd, which represents a massive shortfall.

Tom morris, fancy a prawn sandwich?

Another eloquent Tony Marsh response

Ajamu

silk purse sows ear ?

The reason no YES voters will come on here and stand up for the images is because every NO voter will claim they are stupid, nieve or any other number of things that we have been called recently.

I can honestly say that I watched the video clip featuring Alan Stubbs and was happy with what I saw. I am concerned with the team & what happens on the pitch & the images from inside the stadium where enough for me at present.

Can people please dro pthis discussion now, rather than just posting the same mindless drivel again and again. Ok, we accept you are not happy about the design, the location, the traffic, the colour of the seats, the slope of the stadium sides and anything else you care to mention. But there are thousands of others who are quite happy with the current plans and are also more concerned at present with events on the pitch and want to support their team come what may!

Tony Miller I am sick to the back teeth of this bullshit.Everton fans coming on here and telling us Kirkby must be a good move because Walton is so dreary.What fucking nonesense.Terrace houses are scruffy and theres rubbish in the back entries.ARGGGGGGGGH. Please come up with something better than this FFS.
Goodison may have seen better days and Yes Walton is no Alderly Edge but who gives a shit its were we came from and were we belong.Moving to Kirkby wont suddenly see a wave of Yuppie type Prawn sandwhich fans flocking to the Tesco dome.What will hapeen though is die hard fans like myself wil be so angry and disgusted with the whole shambolic episode that we will shun the place.Even the slightest of drop offs in our support will be a disaster for the club but who gives a shit it wont be Everton any more,Tesco Rovers more like.

TM with regards to your initial post as I have said on this occasion as with many before you have made a good point.

I cannot think of any ground in leafy suburbs lets be honest they are having a go at a possible new housing development at Belfield so what chance a stadium. Yes most people would not have Walton on their must see list in the city, nothing detrimental about the area but that?s not why most of us go there is it? I agree it?s not about what is next to the ground it is much more.

It is just unfortunate that at times some of the good comments you make are spoilt by the profanities. People disagree feelings are strong but as I said try not to loose the message in the delivery. Difficult yes impossible no.

Anyway back to reading the messages and waiting for the weekend against Sunderland, which to me is the most important thing about this club OUR club( even with a cold pie and Warm Chang). Kirkby is something I get no enjoyment out of and I am sure that is the same for the vast majority of people no matter if they voted Yes or No.


Anyway, I am sure we will both be in the ground cheering the blue?s this weekend and hopefully something will happen to also ensure we will be doing the same in years to come wherever that may be.

Tony MIller:
Bellefield is only small surrounded on four sides by houses with the only access a small alley which only one car can get down. Any coaches have to park at the bottom in a small residential street blocking the road.