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A small reminder of how far we have come...

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This was in the paper today ? we're not the subject, Christian Gross is (!) but in the piece was:

"They were 16th in the table after 14 matches, just one point off the relegation zone. Everton and Bolton, the two teams directly beneath them, each had a game in hand... For his first match in charge, Gross took a Spurs side that had lost four in a row to Goodison Park and won 2-0"
I know it's not perfect, but jeez one look at this and you realise how far we have come....
Tim Taylor, Nottingham     Posted 20/11/2007 at 22:15:36

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Michael Kenrick
So I read that and I think, "Yeah, fabulous, init" ... and then I start to recall... Spurs... Goodison Park... er.........

Now I know I'm a smartarse and all that shite but come on, fella!?! You're the one writing this, not me. And I'm not the one responsible for our results either... so I'm sure you'll be fully understanding when you too realise that losing 2-1 instead of 2-0 at home to the team that is one of our closest rivals in the Premier League ... that's an indication of how far we've come?!? [I'm starting to feel as distinctly Tony Marsh moment coming on here....]

Forgive me please for asking but exactly how far does that show we have come? So we can at least now score a goal and still lose at home?!?

Honestly, I really wonder at times... is it me or is everyone just mad as badgers out there!

Dominic Fitzpatrick
1   Posted 21/11/2007 at 02:26:18

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Michael, if you had cared to pay attention to the whole quote, you will find it mentions that Everton along with Bolton were under Spurs in the table, who were 16th.

I think Tim’s point was that we were languishing at the time. Yes we did lose disappointingly to Spurs last season, but didn’t we end up qualifying for the UEFA Cup?

And that point Michael, demonstrates ’how far we have come.’

Try and concentrate next time you comment on a post with a positive spin.
Michael Kenrick
2   Posted 21/11/2007 at 03:08:44

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I?m sorry but reminding me of how we surrendered to Spurs that horrible night is not in any way shape or form something positive to be marvelled at.

Neither, for that matter, is being 9th in the table, and 2 points worse off than last season. Post positive stuff all you want, but FFS make sure it actually is positive!!!
Lee Spargo
3   Posted 21/11/2007 at 05:24:13

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If anybody cannot see how far we have improved an progressed within th last 5-6 years then you really are mad.
Michael Kenrick
4   Posted 21/11/2007 at 05:30:15

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I’m sorry but so far this season is on balance another yo-yo for Moyes as far as League placing is concerned. [I was informed that is the real subject of this topic ? not the Uefa Cup].

The problem with Moyes has been a lack of sustained season-on-season improvement, as demonstrated by the yo-yo sequence of final league placings. With the effect of injuries all too clearly demonstarted to date and the joyous deprivations of the African Nations Cup set to decimate the team in January, the stage is set for a league finish that may well be below last season’s 6th place unless Moyes really pulls his finger out. Incredibly, there are those who have already gone on record as claiming that a lower-placed finish will still mean progress, which is unfortunate because it just devalues the meaning of the word.

I don’t quite understand this need for us to keep telling each other we are making progress. It’s as if there is some deep-seated insecurity that must be aswaged through continued reassurance... Well, there is only one thing that gives me reassurance and that is a high league placing. In fact, we’ve slipped compared with last season, which was incidentally massive for Moyes: the first one in which he finished with a positive goal difference. Our current league placing should be our primary concern. It is for me.

John Lloyd
5   Posted 21/11/2007 at 06:03:13

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I think I understand both points of view here & I really do believe we are a whole lot better than at any point in the 90’s.

But as well as we have progressed in UEFA & league cup for a change this year, the league has always been & will always be your bread and butter & if what MK says is true about people believing that a lower place in league counts as progress then you need your fucking head testing, but then I’ve never heard anyone ever say that on here??
Richard Parker
6   Posted 21/11/2007 at 06:16:06

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We clearly have made progress since those dark days. Michael knows it, we all do. Fair comment, it still isn’t where we want to be, but the sheer fact that we no longer worry about relegation is unrefutable evidence of progress.

We may not make continuous, year-on-year strides but christ, european competition 2 out of 3 years.... a top-4 finish (other than the ’big 4’ who can say that recently?).... the best squad since the mid-80s.... on a run of 6 matches unbeaten and looking at the top 6 again....

There have been low points, there will continue to be low points... but at least the high points are no longer scraping enough points to avoid fucking relegation.

Judge Moyes as you will, but we have made progress, which has bred considerably higher expectations and being an Everton fan is all the better for it.

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum says it all and until we win the Premiership, why should we be content? But give credit where credit is due. Let’s judge this season’s progress by our final placing in the 4 competitions we are still involved in...... (4 competitions at the end of November.... is that maybe progress too?)
Tim Taylor
7   Posted 21/11/2007 at 08:30:50

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I wasn’t saying everything in the garden’s rosy. I wasn’t going out of my way to look for anything positive. I just happened to be reading the article and that bit leapt out at me - the whole thing, like they’d lost 4 games in a row beforehand but still got a result. I remembered that horrible sinking (literally) feeling you’d get all the time, year after year, looking at results and tables etc. And I don’t get the feling any more. Which is good. For me at any rate :) Call me happy clappy if you want, but I’d rather now than then. Still plenty to grumble about, but generally about how to get better and win stuff, rather than stop getting worse and avoid the drop.
Tony Williams
8   Posted 21/11/2007 at 08:56:08

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Yes Michael, Moyes needs to pull his ginger out, I mean how dare he sit by and watch out injury list grow and do nothing. While he is at it maybe he should tell Bertie where to go and not allow the decimation of the side in January and whomever the South African couch is, tell him he can’t have Pienar.

I don’t want to sound all Pro-Moyes but having a dig at a man who has again got us into Europe, lost games in a massively hectic schedule compared to our barren runs of last season is a bit much, is it not.

The lad was trying to start a thread that give us hope and show how well we have progressed but it only lasted one post before the Marshettes piled in.
Mark Perry
9   Posted 21/11/2007 at 09:08:36

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Qualified group stages of UEFA - Check.

In top half of table 3 points from Uefa place - Check.

Better Squad than last year - Check

Not playing so much hoofball - Check

Best run of form for years - Check.

Your absolutly right Michael Kenrick, the lack of improvement is shocking, sack Moyes and the Board immediatly.

For Fucks sake
I heard of rose tinted specticals, what the hell have you got on, Manic depressive tinted, The end of the world is neigh? I dont even want to think about what March looks out of!
Carl Wright
10   Posted 21/11/2007 at 09:20:45

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Sorry but that says it all about some fans at the moment!!

"look how far we have come"!!!!!!!!!

Why dont ya look at were we where before that paper piece. To be at that level was unacceptable, a disgrace.

Am lost for words.....look how far we have come!!???

Why dont ya look how far we had dropped before this point a
Matt Geraghty
11   Posted 21/11/2007 at 09:29:09

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Carl, your glass needs filling mate, it’s half empty.
Tony Williams
12   Posted 21/11/2007 at 09:51:45

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Yes Carl, it was a disgrace and it looks like we are attempting, albeit very slowly to get back to around that level of success again.

Therefore, "Look how far we have come" on the road back to recovery.

I prefer my pint glass half full please
Arthur Jones
13   Posted 21/11/2007 at 09:44:11

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Of course we?re progressing , nobody can tell me that this squad we have at the moment is worse than the one that finished 4th a few seasons ago , Our choice of forwards were Marcus bent and for the second half of the season James Beattie , now we have AJ , Yak , Vaughany Anichebe and a more mature faddy , we also have Lescott and baines , Pienaar and Mikel (again an established player) , Of course we?re better , in the mean time most teams have had more spending power than us but we?re still in the mix with every competition we?re taking part in !!!!! That?s Progress .
Tim Taylor
14   Posted 21/11/2007 at 10:11:26

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kinell Carl! As a fan since ’69 (haven’t been called a "lad" for a long time haha thanks Tony) I am well aware of how far we had fallen - we had nothing left but memories and longing for the past and were going nowhere fast... and it hurt. So forgive me for feeling a little less hurt these days.

I don’t post here often, I wasn’t saying I think everything is perfect, I just came across a piece by accident that brought some of the horrors flooding back, and I hope to god I (or the rest of us come to that) never again have to feel so blooody depressed about this great club as I did back then.

And FFS some of you lighten up! Football mostly stinks these days anyway. I think we should be pretty proud too of how we are where we are now, without shitpiles of bent money, and with a manager who seems to have some integrity.
Chris Dottie
15   Posted 21/11/2007 at 10:22:49

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What is it that would actually make you believe that we are making progress Michael ? I agree that Moyes made a mistake and lost the Spurs game when we could have won, but to use that as evidence that we have not progressed from the stage where we were below Spurs in 16th seems madder than your badgers to me. Maybe I am insecure and want to reassure myself that we?re improving, or maybe we really have improved. Or maybe you?re right and we should take the club motto literally - misery for all until we win the Champions League!
Jay Wilson
16   Posted 21/11/2007 at 10:18:33

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Michael you must be hell to live with, you really are a bit of a know it all and just a tad pedantic.

Last season you said a positive goal difference would be a sign of progress, we duly achieved that but you still weren’t satisfied because we surrendered to Spurs, 1 result out of 38 matches played.

This year you demanded a descent cup run as well as being well placed in the league, we are on 2 cup runs at present this has meant a loss of 2 points in the league, hardly yo yoing is it?

Phil Hamer
17   Posted 21/11/2007 at 12:15:21

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Ha ! Michael, you really are as mad as a fish ! I’m genuinely worried for your state of mind. Pleeeaaassee get out more, see the countryside, maybe go somewhere nice for the weekend.
Tim, please don’t let Michaels increasing insanity get to you, I and most people on here thoroughly agree with you and your link was enlightening.
Phil
Carl Wright
18   Posted 21/11/2007 at 12:48:57

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Glass isnt half full, in fact im over the moon at the turn around at the club since those dark days.

However, i dont want to forget that to many people we are a long way off of where we "should" be. That being a regular team in the top for and winning silverware.

What i suppose i should have said was "ok look at how far we have come, but what about how far we had fallen previsouly"
Rudy Ireland
19   Posted 21/11/2007 at 11:38:20

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Kenrick does have a point. Too many people are getting ahead of themselves because the last few weeks have shown an improvement. We have not come on leaps and bounds but the level of play and consistency has been conspicuous in the past month.

It has been a good last fortnight and with sunderland on saturday and all due respect to Roy keane but that fixture to me seems academic and we can look forward to another three points for the cause.

No matter what you think i for one would take this present time instead of going back 15 years to kendalls swansong having to endure mind numbing inept performances with players such as brett angell, preki and john ebbrell. No disrespect to any of them by that. Its just that with 2008 around the corner everton football club is at least going in the right direction. Moyes may not be flavour of the month to some of you, but hes the best manager this club has seen since Joe Royle. Thats how i feel about it anyway.
Steven Langford
20   Posted 21/11/2007 at 13:08:22

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I think Michael Kenrick is talking rubbish!!!!! COYB
Mark Perry
21   Posted 21/11/2007 at 13:12:37

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Are Michael and Tony Marsh the same person? I mean you never see them together at the same time do you! The question is who is whos alter ego?

Cheer up you miserable feckers and get behined the team

COYB!
Godfrey Blumenthal
22   Posted 21/11/2007 at 13:10:36

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As a fan born in the late 70’s I grew up with Everton as one of the Big Five, winning the FA Cup, the CWC a year later, and often playing our city rivals for trophies and positions at the very top of the league. We had playrs like Trevor Steven, Big Nev, Peter Reid, Kevin Sheedy, and loads more that a young lad could idolise. Then we were absolute rubbish for ages and if it hadn’t been for last day relegation dramas we would have been as bored as Villa fans for ages.

Now we are a good young team, with a promising future, new facilities, European adventures, etc.

Look how far we have come. End of (as some on this site seem to be unable to leave out of a post).

Oh and btw that rubbish about comparisons with last season is ridiculous. We have to factor in trips abroad, and injuries in different areas of the pitch etc. You also have to factor in the psychological element of playing in a team that fears it will get beat, is going nowhere, and players are looking elsewhere for more cash compared to playing for a team that is in three cup competitions, is heading the right way up the league having played three of the ’top four’. Just comparing results and using a formula to calculate the relative values of those wins/draws/losses gives us a statisticians wet dream but not much useful fact.
Chris Gallagher
23   Posted 21/11/2007 at 13:08:51

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Yes, it’s a case of lies, damn lies and statistics but lets look at one simple, undeniable figure - the final finishing position.

Over the last 5 year, we’ve averaged 9th spot - dragged down by the woeful 17th place finish in 2003/04.

In the 5 years before that, we finished, on average, in 15th place.


Conclusive in my humble opinion.

The journey isn’t over yet but we ARE heading in the right direction.
Steven Langford
24   Posted 21/11/2007 at 13:48:40

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3 good points Chris, Godfrey and Mark! I believe in positivity!!!
Patty Beesley
25   Posted 21/11/2007 at 16:13:56

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Tony Williams - Don?t you mean Marshites??
Paul Martin
26   Posted 22/11/2007 at 17:08:40

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Good point by Tim, ridiculous response from Michael.
David Campbell
27   Posted 23/11/2007 at 16:16:31

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I don?t want to be a troll but I?m compelled to write something here. I?m totally in agreement with MK. I could easily write something like

"It?s now twenty years since the club has won the league championship. It is nearly that long since the club has even looked like competing for the league championship as well. Evertons role in establishing the Premier League {as part of the oeiginal "Big Six"} should have seen the club join the upper tier of English football today...how far we have fallen."

Ny post would be just as factually correct and valid as yours.Oh, and just as relevant to today.
We?re not as shit as we used to be. Hurrah. But we?re not good as we used to be before that. Boo. And we?re probably as good as we were before that. Snore.
Meanwhile, in the here and now, I?m wondering how the hell Moyes is going to gather points in the league to secure a top six finish, especially in light of Africa Nations commitments, and the first cup runs of his tenure here. {And that could be an indictment of its own}. Hope Moyes has it under control. Note I don?t have faith that he does, merely hope. COYB
Tim Taylor
28   Posted 24/11/2007 at 08:49:22

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I think some folk have read too much into what I posted - and I accept it’s not altogether relevant to today’s game for instance, except that I don’t have that sinking feeling every match day I used to have.

I was just wasting some time at work, started reading, and there were those paragraphs. It made me laugh. I thought I would share it.

But come on read it again and realise how shit things were, and be just a little bit grateful that you are now asking how we stay top 6.

I had no idea this would get this much comment - I think it was MK’s response what done it LOL.

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