Sorry for another ground move post. front page of the Post todays sees Wyness coming out with the shout of us possibly making our ground capacity to 75,000 in the fututre. I would ask "Is he having a laugh?" but this is bullshit and the comment back from Bestway was that he is moving the goalposts. Quite clearly this bugger has no intentions of hearing anyone else's opinions, ideas or offers on this groundshare, it's full steam ahead for Kirkby.
We are all for ambition but get real, even in the 60s when we had a large Irish fanbase and were as big as anyone we actually averaged over 50,000 one season ? where is there a need for 75,000? Day after day this man proves to me that he does not give two figs about our history or the people of the so-called People's Club.
We average 34,000 with our limited
corporate facilities empty for nearly every game so how can we even dream of finding another 40,000 when we leave the thriving city to the bordering farmland town? Be ambitous but be real and don't take us as blind gobshites you tit.
Paul Gladwell, Posted 22/11/2007 at 10:19:07
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1 Posted 22/11/2007 at 10:17:43
2 Posted 22/11/2007 at 11:40:05
75 thousand!!! Yes, gerrin. I'm so looking forward to our big Lancashire derby with Preston in 2014.... hope I can get a ticket. Ambition is one thing, desperation another. The man will, apparently, say anything now.
3 Posted 22/11/2007 at 14:46:46
4 Posted 22/11/2007 at 15:01:36
5 Posted 22/11/2007 at 14:54:01
6 Posted 22/11/2007 at 15:01:38
Also, KEIOC should be all over this situation like a rash; Leaflets relating to Bestway, Project Jennifer, LCC, and most of all a proper timeline diagram illustrating, with dates, each new thing Wyness has said and how he has moved the goalposts; show him up for who he is, we’ve been far too nice to him.
Knowsley Council have not even given indication that they will allow future expansion to 75,000 anyway. It’s dishonest, hollow, ridiculous, scandalous in so many ways it’s scary. We should be rioting on Goodison Road but let’s just see how apathetic we are if we bag another 3 points against Sunderland on Saturday.
7 Posted 22/11/2007 at 15:05:13
I think that statement is all the proof needed that our board are lining their own pockets.
I’ve just about had enough of wyness, a man that has no f****n idea what everton fans want or need, just get out wyness enough is enough.
8 Posted 22/11/2007 at 15:20:44
9 Posted 22/11/2007 at 15:17:25
I can set out at 1:50 from South Liverpool and I can park and walk to be in my seat by 2:45, Kirkby would mean leaving an hour earlier, I can be home by 5:45, I cant see being home by 7 o clock.
10 Posted 22/11/2007 at 15:28:16
11 Posted 22/11/2007 at 15:52:08
12 Posted 22/11/2007 at 15:54:18
13 Posted 22/11/2007 at 15:55:20
There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that if we were regularly competing for the league and the CL every year we would fill a 60,000 stadium and then would need to talk about expansion to compete better with Utd/LFC/Arsenal.
It is up to others to see if they can find a site capable of holding a similar sized stadium that is as equally appealing to the club as Kirkby is, they’ll have to do it quick however as the Kirkby planning application is due before Chrimbo!
14 Posted 22/11/2007 at 15:57:21
15 Posted 22/11/2007 at 16:01:49
Its bad enough having traffic jams Monday to Friday but at least the traffic flows to Goodison at a pace that doesnt get you irate. I would be happy to move to anywhere as long as these importants problems are addressed.
16 Posted 22/11/2007 at 15:42:11
You state that the RS were "way smaller" to us prior to them achieving success. Dunno what time frame you’re putting on that but they were actually 2.1 ahead of us in terms of titles won by 1906. Ouch. They were then 4.2 ahead by 1924. We managed to get 5.4 ahead by 1939, the last time we were ahead btw, but by the time Shankly arrived it was 5.5.
I presume you were talking about pre-Shankly?
Their all-time record average attendance is 48,000 something versus ours of just under 51,000.
Basically, by the time that Shankly Mourinho arrived all’s we had over them was two FA Cups (and way more class, obviously).
As I say, it’s uncomfortable writing this but it’s time to start dealing in facts and reality and not Wyness’ hyped-up fantasies.
And you did tell us to "wake up" and then proceeded to say that by moving to Kirkby and getting success our support will mushroom. It won’t.
Everton’s attendance figures down the years are one of the most stable and reliable sets of average figures in all sport. Figures we should be proud of.
Yeah, maybe we might see a novelty Kirkby balloon (ahem) effect in the immediate aftermath but it won’t mushroom to 75,000, success or no.
I’m wide awake.
17 Posted 22/11/2007 at 15:51:04
Pitty there are as many stupid responses.
Andy Mckenzie - "why are the club so hell bent on kirkby, its f****n ridiculous, the loop/re-devolp goodison is whats needed not getting in severe debt for an atrocious stadium out in the sticks that will cause traffic chaos." - Maybe you’re right about the traffic chaos and the shit stadium, but redeveloping GP isn’t fucking free and, like the loop (which would cost even more than Kirkby) we don’t even know if it’s feasible. Kirkby will put us in severe debt, but the loop won’t? Stop talking shit!
75,000 capacity? T’is pie in the sky
18 Posted 22/11/2007 at 16:15:26
19 Posted 22/11/2007 at 15:49:22
20 Posted 22/11/2007 at 16:21:58
I for one don’t fancy an hour on the M57 before the match and an hour to get on it after, I will be looking at the public transport alternative.
21 Posted 22/11/2007 at 16:22:31
22 Posted 22/11/2007 at 16:18:22
We don’t know the loop or re-development of goodison is feasible because OUR BOARD are blocking it, why?
Why are the board so reluctant not to discuss anything but kirkby?
in my opinion everton as a football club deserves to have all options explored and all the facts on table before a decision is made, why are so many details now becoming available and why where’nt they released before the vote?
23 Posted 22/11/2007 at 16:13:27
Dodd left but your only aim is to wind up people here, you want other sites capable of holding a similar sized stadium (75 000). Even today some Knowsley representive said that they never spoke with Everton about a possibble 75 000 stadium, the only option being discussed is 50 000 extending to 55 000 nothing more.
I respect all the yes voters and their opinion but you are constantly playing with numbers and facts and trying to annoy people here. KW is moving the posts with his very next word and closing all the doors except Kirkby
24 Posted 22/11/2007 at 16:51:15
However, this could now backfire on the club as i’m sure th elocal residents will have a thing or two to say about the sudden jump in the size of the stadium plans - not to mention the fact that there is now a much better regeneration proposal on offer for their town centre.
Kirkby will fall through, no doubt - just like Kings dock before it. I just hope that it happens sooner rather than later so that we can move on and look at other options and have SOME hope of getting a new stadium (within the next decade!).
P.S. can you believe the club STILL will not speak to anyone else or consider the Bestway proposal - Just when exactly does this ridiculous period of exclusivity end??
25 Posted 22/11/2007 at 16:57:34
making personal gain.
26 Posted 22/11/2007 at 16:58:33
27 Posted 22/11/2007 at 16:55:53
More and more of the Yes sheep are beginning to smell the coffee now and it tastes awful.
Wyness cant even set out his budget or costings accurately for Kirkby despite 18 months of exclusivety and yet he shouts down every arm that is held out to EFC.
The man is an arrogant, selfish, greedy son of a bitch who has done nothing to cure EFC?s ills (ticket fiasco,travel fiasco,Pr fiasco etc.)but has been seliing of all our assets and taking huge bonuses for doing it.
I believe Kenwright is scared of him.Did something get hidden in the accounts which would cause problems if became public knowledge.
I would still like to know where Kenwright got the 20mill to buy out Johnson as he officially only had 1 mill to his name and Greeg only put up 7mill.
I rest my case very uneasily.
28 Posted 22/11/2007 at 17:19:51
29 Posted 22/11/2007 at 17:11:56
30 Posted 22/11/2007 at 17:24:24
No mention of this figure has ever been made by Wyness until he was shown that the loop site could accomodate a stadium holding up to 60,000 fans at a private meeting with City councillors.
Wyness then stated that the club needed a site capable of holding 75,000, a statement that will come as a shock to Kirkby residents, many of whom oppose even a 50,000 seater stadium in their town.
Malcolm Carter, Bestway chief, said, ?At no stage has 75,000 ever been mentioned publicly, why has he moved the goalposts? Our own work by specialists HoK shows our site could hold a 55,000-60,000 stadium which is what we were asked to work towards.
?I am frustrated and fed up. We?re passionate about the regeneration of the area around our site. We?re doing this for the right reasons but Everton have not returned my calls or agreed to meet me. By all means dismiss the site, but at least consider it.
?I have remained loyal to the project and we?re still putting money into it. The council are grateful we?re still there. But I?m reaching the point where we will look at other options for the site.?
Unsurprisingly, no-one from Everton was available for comment, although a memeber of Knowsley Borough Council is believed to be worried about the new figure mentioned.
[Editors Note: Offensive material removed.]
31 Posted 22/11/2007 at 17:28:43
32 Posted 22/11/2007 at 17:26:39
33 Posted 22/11/2007 at 17:37:48
Sorry to be pessimistic but something ain’t quite right and Everton and its supporters will be the ones to pay the price.
34 Posted 22/11/2007 at 17:47:21
The club must address this matter for the likes of yourself.
At Goodison you can approach North South East or West, but at Kirkby unless your familiar with country roads you cannot its the M57 or bust with 2 junctions, the East Lancs Road and the Fazakerley junction both roads jampacked with people from North and Central Liverpool.
35 Posted 22/11/2007 at 17:45:15
36 Posted 22/11/2007 at 17:49:40
So all of you who think it is Kirkby for free or somewhere else for big bucks are away with the fairies. Grow up and act like adults. Wherever we go will cost big money, so it might as well be somewhere suitable, like in Liverpool!!
37 Posted 22/11/2007 at 18:00:41
We need to get behind Bill Kenwright (surely the best chairman we have ever had) and his ambitious plans to join forces with TESCO (a world company with global ambitions and ethics to match) and KBC a council with a reputation for engaging its employers (just ask its teachers).
You moaners just sicken me. You just want to stay in the City where you have existed for 129 years. We need to esacpe from Liverpool supporters and their horrible new ground, why do we want to be near them.?
Dont you realise that change happens in all walks of life, we have to embrace this and not complain and bitch about things. The images of the stadium and retail area look wonderful. Have faith in this management team I am sure they will deliver as they already have done in the past. After all they did give us a fair and democratic vote that canvassed the views of all evertonians they considered eligible.
Oops sorry I have just woken from a nightmare that I was Gerard Madden, what a fucking mad loon he is. Wyness is out of his tree if he thinks we will ever attract 75000 and Kenwright is a shithouse of the highest order, missing as usual deflecting the blame on to others.
Lets keep the pressure up
38 Posted 22/11/2007 at 18:09:53
39 Posted 22/11/2007 at 18:41:43
I know that Knowsley Council officers have been amazed at how keen he has been to aquiesce at some of their most outrageous demands for the scheme but wouldn’t you if it meant security for life?
40 Posted 22/11/2007 at 18:48:10
If HOK said the Loop could hold 90,000 he’d tell us we needed space for a 110,000 stadium. We don’t need any more than 60,000 really do we? Either he’s completely out of touch with reality or he’s fibbing. Maybe both!
Remember: Wyness is not an Evertonian, he’s from Aberdeen and has hopped from job to job all over the world leaving his employers to deal with the consequences.
It’s becoming very obvious to me that he has much to gain from us going to Kirkby. Whether we have is quite another matter, but somehow I don’t expect Keith to be around for too long after the move ( if it happens ) to face the music.
41 Posted 22/11/2007 at 18:55:02
42 Posted 22/11/2007 at 18:38:00
*"50,000 seat capacity....." -WHY HAS THIS NOW BECOME 75,000? TO BLOW SOMEBODY ELSE OUT OF THE FRAME?
*" Everton will have a very small debt..." - HOW MUCH? WHY NOT SHARE THIS INFORMATION?
There are so many ’emotive’ comments in the document, aimed at tugging at the supporters’ heartstrings - e.g "The new stadium could produce a signifcant amount of NEW profit that can go towards squad building". Amazing how well Arsenal did then with a stadium smaller than Everton’s - and what have Bolton achieved with their small ground and (very) limited support?
43 Posted 22/11/2007 at 19:26:47
I am not a shareholder but I do so hope that those amongst us who are will ask the right questions on this issue at the forthcoming AGM-and make sure they are answered!
44 Posted 22/11/2007 at 19:36:38
You are desperate to stay in Liverpool so as to not give the city to the reds, spend all your time going on about how much you would have the mikey taken out of you by reds fro moving to Kirkby.
Well imagine moving to the loop site, as site that Liverpool turned down because it wasn’t big enough for them.
If yo uwant to give them more opportunity for the ’small club’ jibes then go ahead.
Whats wrong with being ambitious and planning for the future. We may never need a 75,000 capacvity stadium, but I bet if you asked Man Utd in the 70s they wouldn’t have said they could fill one either but look at them now!
What is the point in having a site that will only hold 50,000 at the most. If you then need a bigger stadium you have to move and go through all this again!
45 Posted 22/11/2007 at 19:54:37
so what was the point of the vote and the stadium we were shown if its now not deemed big enough, does that mean the vote is now void, because the vote was in favour of a stadium we are now not getting, i can pretty much assume that the kirkby stadium, if we move, will never get upto 75000 and its a bullshit figure to stop any other plan.
46 Posted 22/11/2007 at 19:48:55
As I said earlier there was a time when we where massive , infact up untill recently only us and utd had ever had a seasons average above 50,000 but never in a million years would we be able to gather a fanbase to fill such a ground especially given that we wont be in a major city and no matter what people may think we will eventually lose alot more young growing fans in the city to the shite
over a number of years (it is already happening), but the arguement is not about ambition or ground size it is about the fact that this is the most blatant lie yet to scare other interested parties off by this compulsive bullshitter wyness and how this man can be trusted to run the biggest decision in our history is beyond me, if we have to move lets do it right and honest,everyday I pick up the Daily Post this fucker has contradicted himself or changed the direction.
It wont have a museum- oh sorry it will.
our cost will be buttons-Oh sorry £80 mill and rising.
capacity 50,000 to rise to 55,000
oh sorry 75,000!!!!
There is nothing wrong with people voting yes they are desperate for progress like us all but what I cannot fathom is how you can trust such a shady liar with a history of lying to us with such a decision.
47 Posted 22/11/2007 at 20:22:06
48 Posted 22/11/2007 at 21:23:13
49 Posted 22/11/2007 at 23:06:38
Bored with the bleating now. Please get some perspective.
50 Posted 22/11/2007 at 22:57:28
51 Posted 22/11/2007 at 23:05:49
Secondly, I (and all other Blues) should demand more detail on this KW Kirkby success fee...immediately; otherwise, no attendance to games...end of.
52 Posted 22/11/2007 at 23:41:30
53 Posted 22/11/2007 at 23:43:46
We Evertonians like to think of ourselves as a great, big club. The undisputed big clubs at this present time (in terms of money and success) are thinking ever-bigger. It?s like the early 20th century Dreadnought race allover again!
The Arse, MUFC and LFC (once their new ground is built) are all going to have enormous attendances by everyone else?s standards and this will keep them in the G14(18). And it is this group, like as not, that are going to be running club football in the future - over the heads of UEFA and the like - and of course for the benefit of the G14(18) clubs!.
If we don?t want forever to be left behind, to play with the likes of Man City, W Ham and Villa in some ?minor domestic league?, then we have to think big NOW and plan to try and keep pace with the greedy bastards in G14(18).
So, right or wrong, sincere or disingenuous, what KW says about 75k is actually the stark ?truth?, whether he truly believes it or not. Many a true word spoken in jest, and perhaps many a true word spoken in deceit also!
Obviously Kirkby residents will be surprised by talk of 75k, and Bestway understandably hacked-off by the goalposts being moved. But with MUFC and LFC talking about ever bigger capcitities, perhaps the Loop is, in the longterm, just too small? As footprints go it resembles an old Chinese lady?s bound extremities.
54 Posted 22/11/2007 at 23:12:25
55 Posted 23/11/2007 at 00:52:24
The money is in the big European games. Group of 14 anyone. Platini is trying to reduce the English participation in the Champions league(well he’s a Frog so he would wouldn’t he?).
England already has its big four. The only one’s in remote danger are Chelsea if money-bags gets bored and the RS because they are a shambles in comparison to the other three.
That leaves Spurs, us, Newcastle and maybe Villa to compete for that fourth spot with teh RS. Football will become more and more elitist, that means more and more the wealth gap will be important AND insurmountable.
If you ae not in that top group, you are nowhere and with no way of going anywhere. If we don’t get into an elite group of 18 then we will be forever Preston North End.
If we get there, 50K seats won’t be enough.
Of course the public might just give up and go away. I can’t watch athletics anymore and swimming has just about gone the same way though as an Aussie it still defines one aspect of Australianness. But does anyone really trust sport anymore ?
56 Posted 23/11/2007 at 02:23:13
57 Posted 23/11/2007 at 04:19:14
I think I will be on the phone to the Inland Rev. as the C.E.O. moonlighting as a gaolpost mover.
Bestway Bestway, where for art thou Bestway.
There is, we are told plenty of space in Kirkby, not sure about carparking tho’....but remember ’ In space no one can hear you scream! ’
58 Posted 23/11/2007 at 07:22:18
I’ve always believed that we should be looking at a minimum capacity of 50,000 given our history.I am sure that there are a lot of people who, because Goodison’s capacity has been reduced over the last 15-20 years , have been put off trying to apply for tickets for certain games as they know tickets will be at a premium.
I was 8 back in 1966 when the World Cup was held in this country.It was I am sure a great source of pride to Evertonians that Goodison staged more World matches than any other stadium other than Wembley.Yes more games than Old Trafford and Villa Park and we had a semi final : U.S.S.R. vs West Germany.
I was equally saddened that in Euro ’96 we didn’t get a single game.That shows just how much our management had neglected Goodison’s development - but that’s another issue.
Whether we redevelop Goodison/move to Kirkby or relocate at another site in Liverpool I think that we should be looking for a capacity that could be increased in the future if not to 75,000 then at least 60,000.
59 Posted 23/11/2007 at 09:09:40
The same loop that Liverpool looked into as a potential site for their new ground and dismissed because it was too small ? Why do people not understand this ?
We?re told that a new ground at the loop site would involve the stadium being with a stand straddling the existing road. This is an absolutely ludicrous suggestion and anyone that thinks a modern football ground should be built in this way needs their head testing. Please don?t let your apparent hatred of Kirkby, Wyness (or basically anything to do with the EFC Board) blind you on this one.
And Mr Bestway ? He?s only interested in what?s best for Everton FC is he ? Not in the least bit interested in making a few bob for himself?
Come on lads. Get real.
60 Posted 23/11/2007 at 09:53:54
61 Posted 23/11/2007 at 12:55:48
It sure isn’t TESCO, because in their shareholder pack there is no mention of any costs associated with this deal that they are bearing on behalf of EFC or anyone else for that matter. Remember they are answerable to their shareholders, not EFC!
Put up or shut up, please.
62 Posted 23/11/2007 at 13:33:21
I?m not big fan of Kirkby but then again Bestway is just pie in the sky and Warren Bradley and the shower of sharks at the Council have come to the table too late in the day after sitting on their hands for years. Their strategy seems to be " Let?s get all the sites that the LFC have turned down over the years and offerthem to Everton" - So Bradley -put up or shut up.
63 Posted 23/11/2007 at 10:33:44
64 Posted 23/11/2007 at 15:51:27
It is not unknown for there to be various financial irregularities in a development of this size and nature. Whilst there is no evidence of this whatsoever, more than a few people have noted that there is a certain smell about the deal. Something about it feels off and the clubs motivation is starting to be questioned. Wyness strange haste in giving his strange statement just throws more fuel on a still low burning fire. Although there is little chance of it being soon, I will be happy when Wyness leaves his post. He?s a shifty sort, thats for sure.
65 Posted 25/11/2007 at 01:18:56