Dave Cornmell's post highlighted the way I feel about football at present. This is the first year I have not had a season ticket for a long time and I honestly don't miss it one bit.
No longer is my life dictated by ridiculous kick-off times to suit the over-rated TV coverage, I now go when it suits me and my boy.
The apathy that Everton Football Club displays to it's fans was the main reason, the breaking point being the ground_move fiasco and all the spin and lies that went with it.
I can cope with players leaving because we all know they are mercenary bastards anyway, bar a few. But the whole circus that is Premier League football is absolutely abhorent. It is run by media men who have re-packaged the whole thing and the clubs kiss arse for the sake of profit.
They tell us football has never been so popular, but that is based on viewing figures, not attendances. Parachute payments etc, mean that for some, going down is more profitable than staying up, for Christ's sake!
This is not the game I grew up loving and spent my every waking moment thinking about as a boy. This is a media circus and they can shove it.
Dave Lynch, Posted 03/12/2007 at 17:35:20
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 04/12/2007 at 00:04:58
Maybe it is just an age thing and the younger generation of Blues will take up the challenge and fill up the seats vacated by the older brigade, but I hate to paint a gloomy picture, and I fear the Wyness dream of filling the New Kirkby stadium with 50,000 Evertonians every other week is never going to happen. Football just isn?t the same as it used to be.
2 Posted 04/12/2007 at 00:33:24
The chances of filling the ground at Kirkby are diminishing by the second due to Wyness’ economy with the truth.
3 Posted 04/12/2007 at 01:16:03
So whatever it is - it turns out to be Kirkby again. Gents, I really do understand you not wanting to go to Kirkby. There are good arguments on both sides. But where exactly are all these blatant Kirkby lies? Some spin, I grant you. But anything as clearly, obviously factually incorrect as the claim on the recent KEIOC statement that 21,000 people - "a majority" - were against Kirkby. Now that is what I call lying!
4 Posted 04/12/2007 at 01:19:34
Are any of you old enough to remember the bleak seventies, when we played worse football than can be imagined. Players like Latchford who came to Everton on a national record transfer fee only to hand in a transfer request the next season and every season thereafter until Kendall arrived got rid of him. Players like Terry Daracott, Jim Pearson and George Telfer. Home gates that barely nudged above thirty thousand when Goodison could hold fifty. No cups and hardly a derby win. Liverpool winning everything and Anfield full every week.
MOTD equalled one match that could have been a local derby between Burnley and Oldham.
On top of this the ubiquitous presence of the football hooligan.
The nineties where bad too, I don?t need to go over that as most of you will remember it.
The problem as I see it is; you seem to hark back to some mythical time when football was not ruled by money, played in some gentlemanly spirit and we all went home to hot cups of bovril that had been prepared by our subservient wife or mother.
Can anyone enlighten me, when did this special time exist?
5 Posted 04/12/2007 at 06:56:00
Peter I believe the cynism towards football being fooked started around the time Sky "re-invented" the game, did at any time before that you were absolutely certain we would not win another title or major trophy in your lifetime without a serious injection of cash to buy it?
6 Posted 04/12/2007 at 07:01:03
Anyone who thinks the past was a golden age with a level playing field was not there or living in fantasy land.
7 Posted 04/12/2007 at 07:42:11
The pertinent untruths regarding Kirkby are both factual and clear. Stadium for "practically nothing" pre-vote became a stadium for £50m min cost to club according to Wyness just after the vote, more recently £80m is the mooted figure. These figures dispel another untruth that there are "no plan B’s", since by definition if we have that money for Kirkby we can have it for redevelopment or the Loop. These were the headline quotes pre-vote!!! There of course is another untruth.... The club state that the Loop isn’t a viable site pre-vote, world renowned stadium architects HOK site-study report proves otherwise. Wyness declares the Kirkby stadium will be the most accessible in the country, his own transport consultants admit that the public transport provision is grossly inadequate necessitating the biggest park and ride scheme in the country, with self-confessed misgivings about the ability to disperse/transfer such large numbers in the desired window post match. Meanwhile you can only say KEIOC lied about 21,000 not being the majority of 36,000.....(it always used to be) or some such trivial assertion. Slightly selective in your sensitivity to lies and or untruths there I think!!!
8 Posted 04/12/2007 at 08:04:15
Late 70’s we were quite good in relative terms, certainly better than the likes of Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea. Of course the big problem was that Liverpool’s dominance was in full swing, and apart from Notts Forest, there was little real competition..... but generally we weren’t that bad, and the crowds were as big as nowadays. I too have noticed some of my mates have drifted away in recent times. The costs are extortionate, in the 70’s it probably cost roughly the same to go the flicks as to go the match..... now it’s about 5-6 times the cost. The hype and marketing have kept the crowds, but it’s only a matter of time before the "big 3-4’s" monopoly kills it. I’m an addict, but there was a time when I said I wouldn’t even miss an away game, now they are much rarer for me, so you never know.
9 Posted 04/12/2007 at 07:52:33
I agree with you whole heartedly, I was not around in the Fifties and too young for most of the sixties but started to take an interest around 1970.
I laugh at things like the newspapers decrying the current rate of sackings in the Premier League so far.
It was Everton who sacked Johnny Carey in a taxi and adopted a policy of win something within three seasons or your out.
1st Division football (premier League) has always been a nasty money driven business.
I would stand and say Sky has done more good than harm in English football. Sky has marketed the game around the world and we have seen the benefits of this by the quality of players playing every week in the Premier League.
Just to answer your question I will be rude and ask you a question
Did the supporters of Nottingham Forest actually believe that they would not only win the league but two European cups, during a time when Man United, Arsenal and Liverpool where the richest clubs in England. Brian Clough did it on a shoe string budget, David Moyes is trying (and I fully support him) on a reasonable budget. yes to some extent the playing field is not level now but it certainly wasn’t level for Cloughie either. In answer to your question Gavin I did not believe during the mid seventies early eighties that we could win the league, we were shite. But I do now, I believe that Everton can still win the Premiership.
10 Posted 04/12/2007 at 08:33:34
Tom, we’ve been round this one before! The intelligent Yes voters (I know you don’t believe there are any) did not vote Yes because they believed the precise financials that Wyness quoted. Everyone who is not an idiot knows that these things are pretty unpredictable (Wembley etc.). They voted Yes for a whole bunch of good reasons that I and others have exhaustively explained here.
Wyness of course, like Liverpool FC, did not say that NO ground could be built on the Loop (you could build some sort of ground on my back garden). The point is that no adequately sized ground that does not cost Everton a fortune (MUCH more than Kirkby) can be built. And that remains true. How could a ground built with an insignificant partner and a reluctant local council on a traffic island cost more than a ground built on a big open space with Tescos and a highly supportive council? Use your common sense.
And the point about the lying KEIOC claim is not of course that 21,000 is a majority of 36,000 (I can add up too). It is the claim that all those 21,000 are against Kirkby. That is obviously a lie and you know it. All we know is that a lot of people didn’t vote, and of those who did vote more voted for Kirkby than against.
And I grew up supporting football in the Revie era, and I can assure you that it didn’t feel like much of a golden age of chivalrous sportsmanship and great ethics to me.
11 Posted 04/12/2007 at 08:34:07
12 Posted 04/12/2007 at 08:47:57
I have never said there were no intelligent YES voters, I challenge you to dredge the archives to find such. My belief is that people have been deceived, which is reaffirmed, judging by the fact that you averted the issues regarding the other untruths regarding cost, transport and consequent deliverability of redevelopment of Goodison. On the issue of the Loop, You make assumptions regarding this site that you cannot possibly know. Bestway are/were offering to make substantial contributions towards the project, at a site far more attractive and with far greater potential to attract much more valuable enabling developments than anything in Kirkby, as shown by the number and quality of developments taking place all over the city centre at the moment. LCC mobilised a significant part of their planning department just to look at this site which rather refutes your claims there too. The club’s contribution was said to be of the order of £60m, similar or even less than that for Kirkby...... another fact we were conveniently kept unaware of pre-vote. As regards the rather trivial criticism of KEIOC’s use of stats Surely it is a fact that 21,000 people were not convinced by Kirkby. They were the ones selling a proposal, only one option appeared in the ballot literature, and only 15k out of 36k were convinced. At the end of the day though, there was far more important content in the newsletter!!!
13 Posted 04/12/2007 at 09:32:11
Look the facts are ( I don?t remember the exact numbers so wont guess)
X people voted for Kirkby
Y people voted against Kirkby
Z people didn?t vote.
If X > Y then X wins.
The number Z is irrelevant as nobody know who they are or why they didn?t vote. To presume that they all didn?t vote becuase they were against the move is complete rubbish.
If they were that against it they would have voted wouldn?t they!
To claim the majority (Y + Z) didn?t vote in favour is utter garbage. For that matter I could say that an overwhelming majority (X+Z) didn?t vote against Kirkby so its an exceedingly popular decision to move!
14 Posted 04/12/2007 at 09:14:12
We played a lot better football throughout the 1970’s than we have since 1990. 1996 and this year (up to now perhaps being the exception). What colours our perception of this era is Liverpools growing dominance. For most of those seasons we at least attempted to play reasonably attractive football. I seem to remember various cup runs and semi finals, the league cup final of 78, european football, nealrly winning the league in 74.
I am doing this from memory not with a book at hand but I am fairly sure that we had many top half finishes in that period compared to the period after 1990.
Your comment about the team with Latchford in is unjustified I take it you dont remember Dave Thomas, Martin Dobson, McKenzie and King et al. What I enjoyed about this era was despite there being money about there was not as much of a gulf between clubs. This allowed teams like QPR, Ipswich, Derby, Forest to actually compete for and in some cases win titles. Sky has imposed a boring autonomy on who can win things because finance dictates that Man U, Lverpool, Arsenal and now Chelsea can simply buy the best on offer. Although our loveable red friends still cant win a title to save their lives. I understand the sentiment of the lead article even though I still go all the time. The ground move will destroy for many of us a sense of identity and belonging we have with the club. I sense many of us (yes and no voters) know the club has misled us regarding the finance and legal agreements surrounding the Kirkby move, which is why our current optimism about the good stuff we are playing is tainted with an unease about where we are heading long term.
15 Posted 04/12/2007 at 09:26:52
16 Posted 04/12/2007 at 10:19:35
Thanks for taking on board what i was actually trying to convey.
This post was not meant to drag up the Kirkby argument, it was written to highlight the way football has been corrupted and taken away from the fans.
In fact the only people with integrity left in the game are the fans, but the whole circus that is football is designed to do nothing more that screw us for evey penny we have.
17 Posted 04/12/2007 at 10:11:21
I find it astounding that the main protagonists involved with this Website all claim to refuse to go to the game until things change at the top. I wonder when that came about. To be honest I do doubt their credentials as Evertonians because all they seem to do is slag the club off week in week out. I honestly beleive that this club would benefit from not having supporters of that ilk linked with Everton. Thge Tony Marshes, Michale Kendricks and Colm Kavanaghs of this world are the incessant negatives of this world and are best taken with a pinch of saly. Win 7 -1 and they tell you dont build your hopes up a good player comes on the scene he is a flash in the pan. This fact still remains that bestway and LCC havent stated how much Everton have to commit to for the loop site. THe vote went in favour of the move and it will go ahead and the club will move out of Liverpool along with thousands of scousers who have left their ancestral home and now live in Knowsley, St. Helens, Wigan and various other places throughout the North west. SO if you really want to help Everton, get off your arses and go and buy a half season ticket and start supporting your club again instead of whinging and moaning.
18 Posted 04/12/2007 at 12:13:48
19 Posted 04/12/2007 at 12:52:39
Mick Mac, good post mate, pretty much what I think, apart from doubting their credentials.
Dave Lynch I know where you are coming from, however, I will never lose my love for my club and no matter how the money men continually try to destroy the competiveness of the league I will still support Everton
20 Posted 04/12/2007 at 12:57:52
21 Posted 04/12/2007 at 12:50:49
22 Posted 04/12/2007 at 13:13:52
Up the blues.
23 Posted 04/12/2007 at 12:45:06
Post Heysel and the Taylor report, post Murdoch, unseen (and not so unseen) hands have, through money and social engineering, sought to change the game for ever. It is no longer the province of the ordinary working (or unemployed) person.
The former fans have largely been priced out and given second best - watching from home or down the pub. Super stadia and galacticos are for the richer ?customer? who likes their prawn sarnies and spends loadsamoey on tat - emblazoned with logos of football teams that play hundreds of miles from where they, the customer, was born and raised. Gone are the days you could stand on the Gladwys for the price of three or four pints of beer.
I live in a former mining village in Yorkshire, about 12 miles from Leeds. Are the people in the local Working Men’s Club Leeds United fans? Are they hell. Most of them support the Red Shi*e or "the Scum" (as the few Leeds fans call Manyoo). But do any of these people who proudly wear their replica shirts and drive cars with number plates bearing teams logos actually go to games? Hardly a one!
Football is going the way of opera. A strange thing to say? Er, no. Opera was once the province of the common bod - yes, believe me, many of Mozart’s operas had their debuts in ’lowly’ Vienna music halls and Puccini’s tunes were the pop songs of their day. But who now among the lowly can afford to attend the opera? Even with its massive subsidies from the lotto.
All that said, I think it is wholly unfair to single out the likes of BK and KW and heap the blame on them. These guys, if they are guilty (and I make no pronouncement myself) are only small cogs, and they come in on the coat-tails of generations of petty crooks before them.
It has to be said the growing alienation from soccer of us ?ordinary folk? is not a new phenomenon. I remember watching the likes of Nico Claasen turn out for Spurs in the 80s, seeing him usher in the era of cynical cheating and diving. And I was heartily sickened. I recall the shock I felt the first time I saw a pro put a ball into touch and then claim the throw in (hey, some of the people who play pro snooker are real dodgy, but they play fair). Things like that often made me feel I didn?t want to watch football at all ? live or on telly.
Occasionally we see glimpses of the beautiful game, and sometimes teams can buck the trend and upset the illuminati who seek to own the game (like when we ruined the so-called ?dream final? in 1995, thrashing Spurs 4-1 in the FA Cup semi) but for the most part soccer is a cesspit of greed. We have to live with this knowledge and cherish the all-too rare flashes of decency and beauty. We may be in the gutter but occasionally, albeit only once in a while, we can gaze up at the heavens.
24 Posted 04/12/2007 at 13:17:57
I did not say i have stopped going the game, or have stopped loving EFC.
I stated i go when it suits ME not when the tv companies dictate i should go.
Sorry i ever mentioned the unmentionable, cos it is you lot who have turned it into a Kirkby debate. NOT ME.
Tommy and all you others, the post is ANTI FOOTBALL, and the way it is run.
Use some common sense and stop being so blinkered.
Hobbsy. I had you down as someone of inteligence who you could have a reasonable and intelligent debate with ?
25 Posted 04/12/2007 at 13:13:04
26 Posted 04/12/2007 at 13:36:10
27 Posted 04/12/2007 at 13:31:41
Now we simply can’t afford to go. For us to go to the match twice a month, factoring in he cost of travel and refreshments, this would exceed what we pay on our mortgage (and let’s not forget, EFC is one of the cheaper teams to follow).
Modern stadia like the Emirates may be wonderful but I doubt I will ever get the chance to sit in it (regardless of the fact I think Arsene Wenger’s teams play beautiful football).
You say things are "better" now. For you, maybe, but for me, no. I’ve been priced right out of the game. How is that "better"? :o(
28 Posted 04/12/2007 at 13:39:57
29 Posted 04/12/2007 at 13:18:51
What an inane position to take, you don't care who the club is run by or I presume where we play?
Tommy, I suppose we should just agree with everything the club say and not protest because let's face it, under the leadership of Kenwright we have enjoyed success on and off the field and he has never told us any lies before. What utter drivel, people can support the club and be critical of its leadership at the same time, they are not mutally exclusive.
Do you think all 6,000 fans who went to Germany voted Yes, or could even vote? Like you I loyally follow Everton FC, We the supporters are the football club, not Wyness etc. I am entitled to be critical if I want to.
For those who say we cant talk about Kirkby in this thread, please read the original post it says the ground move was the ?breaking point? aligned to the apathy EFC shows its fans, in stopping Dave going the match, does that not worry you? Is he by himself in thinking that? I don?t think so!! I think therefore to talk about the clubs leadership is a viable topic.
30 Posted 04/12/2007 at 13:45:39
As I said previously I can understand your concerns but I love football and Everton too much to let the big wig money men spoil it for me.
I have a season ticket and therefore it roughly works out about the same money as I would spend if I went out for a bevy to watch the game in a pub, so I will keep going until I simply cannot afford it, the money men love people like me but I am addicted to Everton and cannot help it
31 Posted 04/12/2007 at 13:35:55
32 Posted 04/12/2007 at 13:46:08
33 Posted 04/12/2007 at 14:06:40
34 Posted 04/12/2007 at 14:23:14
some of the best players in th world, played in some of the best stadia in the world that are packed out (in most cases). Where you can sit and enjoy the football without having to worry about being beaten up on the way to or during the game.
Do you honestly believe the game is worse now?
The problem isn?t with SKY and what they?ve done, but the chairmen of 20+ years ago, for mis managing and under selling the game, allowing it to fall to pieces.
SKY saved football not ruined it!
35 Posted 04/12/2007 at 14:18:20
I understand what you are saying. Everton have to be a part of what is going on to progress.
It’s just that i wish to have no part in the hype and greed that goes with it. Like you i will always be blue to the core, but unlike you i will pick and choose where and when i go, thats my decision.
I hope the blues do go on and have their most succesfull seasons for years, and i hope you are there to see it all mate.
Some of us though feel differently, but isn’t that what makes life so interesting and sparks healthy debate. NSNO.
36 Posted 04/12/2007 at 14:15:04
37 Posted 04/12/2007 at 14:38:03
38 Posted 04/12/2007 at 14:46:32
That alone should make people question Wyness? true motives for the Kirkby deal.
We need a bigger stadium but for £80mill of our own money there are other options. Building around the Loop?s restrictive roads may cost slightly more but what an exciting prospect it would be. A 60,000 city centre location would provide tremendous exposure for the club.
Failing that lest look at re-developing Goodison. Once again for that kind of money we can rebuild and even bigger Goodison.
Which brings me back to the opening post. With the current over the top coverage of football and the decline in attendances at most clubs (outside the ?big? 4). Would Kirkby really stem the tide for Everton and return us back to former glories? I doubt it. What Everton FC needs is something iconic to galvanize the fan base. Only a modern, bigger Goodison, or a big City Centre stadium will do...
39 Posted 04/12/2007 at 15:20:10
Hope you witness the success YOU deserve and the rest of the die hards with you.
Respect where it?s due.
40 Posted 04/12/2007 at 13:04:46
'The game is bent', 'Wyness lied to me', 'I don't want to go to Kirby'.....so (sic) I don't go to the match anymore and actively support the team?
Sorry, but I don't get the logic. If you didn't know the game was riddled with corrupt practices which planet have you been living on since the sixties ( and before)? Wyness had an agenda... quelle surprise! You voted 'no' and didn't get your way.... or perhaps you didn't get a vote because you don't go the game (?)
Why should any of the above stop you from going to the game? Why not just say I can't be bothered anymore, or can't afford it or whatever; instead of trying to justify your decision with the kind of pseudo logic alluded to above?
Whatever your reasons it's your choice, but you're missing a great season, with Everton (occassionally) playing some really outstanding football in front of the 35,000+ fans who can be bothered to turn up.
41 Posted 04/12/2007 at 16:10:28
Perhaps I’ll give it one more season before I retire to Marks&Spencer although I guess even Saturdays spent there would be better than Tesco!
42 Posted 04/12/2007 at 16:40:21
43 Posted 04/12/2007 at 16:37:52
Just today, I had a Spurs bloke doing a spot or removals for me: "You’ve nothing to complain about mate. Everton one of the best run teams in the league now. You’ve stuck by your manager and now you are getting your reward. You’ll come fifith this year, mark my words. We have become a luaghing stock". And I hear this stuff EVERY DAY.
It’s great being an Everton fan again. Everton has become a highly respected club, building a real team of dedicated players, sticking by its manager, a respected professional as captain, no bung scandals, having a decent owner not involved in all sorts of shady shenanigans or get rich quick schemes. And even now playing some great football!
Reading this site, you’d think we were, well.... Spurs, or Newcastle, or Portsmouth, or Birmingham, or Leeds or something.
What is wrong with all you negative people?
44 Posted 04/12/2007 at 16:28:08
I live in Belfast and get over twice or three times a year, because it’s a one off, i really look forward to it. When we don’t get over, i have to admit anything to do with Everton on any channel, i’m always on the edge of my seat.
You guys should see what we have to put up with over here in Northern Ireland, Liverpool fans are the worst breed of supporters i’ve ever met and have to put up with. They’ve never played the game and Liverpool FC is an extension of their over inflated ego’s!!!
Back to the original point, i’m too losing my love for the game, if Everton are on any channel i’m a nervous wreck shouting and cajoleing at the TV, but the "Big 4" (you don’t know how much contempt i have for that Sky marketing crap), Sky themselves, The Premier League, The FA, The Referee’s bias towards the Big 4, the media’s bias to them too, these are all ruining what is the greatest hobby and pastime on earth, one i thought i couldn’t do without throughout my whole life.
I came so close to walking away from the game after the Derby, that was pure corruption which football should be free from.
And i think Kirkby will ruin this club, but that’s only my opinion, if i’m wrong then so be it, i don’t want to annoy people, deep down, even from watching on from Belfast i think moving out of the Liverpool boundaries will ruin us and give Liverpool more fans, thus more money and publicity. Believe me listening to them sometimes i wonder if it can get any worse...Kirkby is a wake up call, if it goes ahead, i really fear for Everton FC...
45 Posted 04/12/2007 at 17:06:50
46 Posted 04/12/2007 at 18:38:33
47 Posted 04/12/2007 at 18:20:24
For Gods sake if you have nothing constructive things to say-dont bother - just stay at home and listen to the radio and be pleased for the rest of us...
48 Posted 04/12/2007 at 18:41:21
49 Posted 04/12/2007 at 18:33:20
50 Posted 04/12/2007 at 19:09:15
Believe me my post was genuine, i know as i have stated that EFC have to be part of the greed factor, or die.
But i won’t be.
Your reply is non constructive and without foundation as you don’t know me from Adam matey.
I will be over the moon if the blues win trophies and for the lads who follow them everywhere as i have stated.
Go with the fat cats if you must and spare a thought for the Coventry fans today.
Do the FA and the prem that is awash with money care about them.
Do they FUCK.
What has happened to them only strengthens my feelings.
51 Posted 04/12/2007 at 20:53:09
To say you’d rather not watch Everton because of the money, the chairman or the way the club is run is your own choice - that said, it does strike me as cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The price of living in this country is scandalous, and thats got nothing to do with football - if you cant afford to go and watch live Premier League football thats probably more to do with the cost of living than it is the cost of football.
52 Posted 04/12/2007 at 21:02:52
The point is i can afford it. Maybe it’s the social conscience (never been able to spell that) i have, i just don’t know.
People on here will judge me, i know that.
But what i feel is what i feel. I love the club and have spent thousands in my 40 odd years following them all over the country and europe.
I just hate the state of football at present, the have’s and have nots, if you dont have you can’t compete. End of and that is bad for the game.
It’s like a sporting version of the Thatcher years.
53 Posted 04/12/2007 at 21:14:30
I?m not giving up on Everton, hell no, I'll never ever be able to do that no matter what happens. So I won?t be ?pissing off?, I just hate feeling cheated as a supporter due to greed, money and bad favourable towards the Big 4 refereeing.
If I was a season ticket holder, I?d be at every game so long as it was physically possible, despite all that?s going on in the game now.
When I said I wanted to walk away from the game I meant the game in general and all that it stands for (greed and money), the one thing that stopped me doing so, is the love for this football club. Once it?s in your blood there?s no going back, it?s a love affair that will never die.
But football in general is dying and the main reasons for it is money and greed. Sky and the self fulfilling G14 are the main culprits for this.
54 Posted 04/12/2007 at 21:12:15
If you can go but don’t want to, then don’t but I don’t see why people have to justify their decision as some sort of tortured moral conversion.
55 Posted 04/12/2007 at 21:58:45
Why do the pro Kirkby people not want to believe that there are other deliverable options like redeveloping Goodison or the loop site?
I wouldn?t set foot in any Kirkby stadium, do you know why? Because I believe it would be a totaly different club than the one that has been such a massive part of my life.
I wish you could all set your standards a lot higher and not so easily accept moving to another town 6 miles away to play in what can only be described as a ten pin bowling drome next to tesco?s.
We are Everton FFS! ? We're better than that aren?t we?
56 Posted 04/12/2007 at 23:23:42
This mailbag faclity is provided for open debate, not open (verbal) warfare. If you are not prepared to debate the subject raised on its merit, in a reasonable manner, without maintaining some respect for opposing views, then quite frankly, I am not interested in your opinion.
And while we're on that subject, can we please lay off this business of claiming something is a wind up or is not genuine. That is equally insulting. As I said elsewhere, if you really can't handle the open debate going on, then please sit on your hands or take you unwanted comments elsewhere.
One thing binds us together, that we are all Evertonians, which is why I HATE this Evertonian one-upmanship that goes on from some people. Either you show some respect for other posters or your messages will be removed and you will be banned.
57 Posted 04/12/2007 at 23:49:04
I clearly remember the Seventies and players like Latchford, transfer request second season and when asked after he scored 30 goals in 1977 did he still want to leave, he replied of course I do.
I also remember Duncan McKenzie, gifted and practically useless in a team environment, incidentally he only played 48 games for Everton and if I recall only one spectacular performance (against the Shite)
Martin Dobson was good player but he had played his best football and most of his international football before he arrived from Burnley.
Andy King was an outstanding player and Everton should have kept him longer.
Incidentally We never won a derby match for seven years during the seventies until Andy King scored that goal.