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The Mail Bag

Murder at the AGM

Comments (35)

I did not expect the media to single out my comments on the murder of Everton's soul at last night's AGM. Nonetheless, it has provided some much needed publicity for the anti-Kirkby lobby. Even at this stage there is still hope, particularly if the costs escalate or there is a blip in the planning process.

I favour a part redevelopment/part refurbishment of Goodison. This would basically consist of a second tier on the Park End, an extension/refurb of the Bullens Road stand and the removal of the pillars at the front of the Main Stand [they are obstructing my view].

I am convinced that this would create a unique blend of old and new with an ample capacity of 50 -55,000. More importantly it couldn't cost more than the figures being bandied about for Kirkby.

Tony Dove, Warrington     Posted 05/12/2007 at 16:58:38

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Stuart Mitchell
1   Posted 05/12/2007 at 17:51:13

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Not more on this, WE ARE MOVING!!! get used to it.

We do not have the funds to redevelop GP!!

I think we need to focus on the design and standard of the new stadium, not the location.

Gavin Ramejkis
2   Posted 05/12/2007 at 17:54:57

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Stuart care to prove the money that would be spent on Kirkby would be less than the refurbishment of Goodison Park? Could anyone explain why it has taken a confrontation by shareholders at the AGM to confirm there is a plan b and plan c?

As emphatic as yes and no voters are still, nothing has been confirmed and a 75,000 seater stadium in Kirkby certainly won’t be without Kirkby suddenly getting unheard of money spent on transport and infrastructure.
Jay Campbell
3   Posted 05/12/2007 at 17:54:05

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You were BANG ON with your comments!!! Take no notice of these Kenwright, Wyness, Kirkby loving clowns. Why the f*ck do we have to suffer just because these idiots cannot attract investment!!! It is their DUTY to attract money to the club, find us a new home in OUR HOME CITY and if they can’t perform these task’s then they are not up to the job simple as!!!
Neil Pearse
4   Posted 05/12/2007 at 18:00:11

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Gavin - read John Waugh’s summary of the AGM on this site. There is only a plan B and a plan C in the same sense as there has always been - if Kirkby falls through.

Note also Bill’s words on plan C: "I suppose that the Scotland Road site would have to become a plan C". This sounds a bit like saying that, if I lost my job in the UK and couldn’t get another one, I suppose I would have to try to emigrate somewhere. This is no admission that there is a good plan C (or indeed plan B).

The reality that Keith and Bill don’t seem brave enough to tell us is that Kirkby is the only option currently available that it seems we can afford. We do not have the finances for anything else, and may not even have the finances for Kirkby if its costs keep escalating.
Neil Pearse
5   Posted 05/12/2007 at 18:06:59

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Jay, by ’attract investment’ here you must mean ’sell the club to someone much richer’ (not, for example, bring in Robert Earl).

There is nothing to stop any rich billionaire from bidding to buy Everton. We are not a secret. There is no way Bill could stop anyone from going public and bidding for Everton - as usually happens when someone bids for a club or a business. There just haven’t been any bidders.

Explain to me how it is Bill’s fault that no-one has come forward to put a couple of hundred million into Everton?
Stuart Mitchell
6   Posted 05/12/2007 at 18:08:59

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If we try and redevelop GP we will have to do it without the help of Tesco.

Gavin, please tell me where we will find 200m+??

Karl Jones
7   Posted 05/12/2007 at 18:23:35

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Have you any respect for democracy?..Two thirds of fans who could be bothered to vote voted for the move. The majority, thats what counts. Ive lost all respect for people like you stuck in the past., and that idiot in the plane. Accept the verdict. Thats what you would have expected everyone to do it it had gone against a move.
Simon Smith
8   Posted 05/12/2007 at 18:37:26

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I'm sure Tesco?s wont be paying for Goodison to be done up so hope you're a millionaire, Tony.
Stuart Mitchell
9   Posted 05/12/2007 at 18:43:24

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Well said Karl and Simon.
Ste Cranton
10   Posted 05/12/2007 at 18:56:44

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If we were named Liverpool FC would we move out of the city?? I don?t think so, so why should we move out when we were the first team in the city (our original badge had a liver bird on it). If we move, we won?t survive ? simple as that
Stuart Mitchell
11   Posted 05/12/2007 at 19:17:46

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Removed by moderators — off topic
Lyndon Lloyd
Editorial Team
12   Posted 05/12/2007 at 19:10:58

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Neil: "There is only a plan B and a plan C in the same sense as there has always been - if Kirkby falls through."

This is true but the question has to be asked, then (although I already know the answer), why was this not made clear on the ballot instead of Keith Wyness explicitly saying that "if the vote is no, then there is no plan B"?

Almost everyone knows that there is always a Plan B even if it isn?t as financially viable as Plan A but Wyness chose his words very carefully because the brochure and rhetoric that accompanied the ballot were designed to secure a "yes" vote. Of course, you can argue that that was the CEOs roundabout way of having his cake and eating it ("OK, have your vote but we?re going to do everything to ensure it?s a ?yes?") and then you can argue whether the decision (i.e. Kirkby) is in the club?s best long-term interests.

Plans B and C on a no-brainer vote on the Kings Dock five years were two redevelopment options for Goodison Park, so why not this time as well? Because KW didn't really want to have to take the risk that the fans might opt for redeveloping over a tidily packaged (from his perspective) project in Kirkby?

We didn?t have the money for any of those choices (KD included) as it turned out and it doesn?t look like we have the money for anything on the table now (Kirkby included) but the more this rumbles on and the more the Kirkby costs escalate, the more a phased redevelopment of Goodison looks to be the most realistic option. And I say that knowing how fraught with logistical problems that would be.

Tom Morris
13   Posted 05/12/2007 at 20:38:32

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Ste c,

Presumably we should change our names to Liverpool FC and redesign our badge to incorporate the Liver bird again then should we ?

What the hell is your point ?
Dick Fearon
14   Posted 05/12/2007 at 21:47:33

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I cannot work out how, by moving the club to Kirkby.BK will personally benefit.

Can someone please enlighten me but please leave to one side any personal hatreds.
Michael Kenrick
15   Posted 05/12/2007 at 21:58:20

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Dick, the benefit is that, in the years after the Tesco Kirkbydome is finished, Kenwright will be in an excellent position to sell his majority interest in Everton FC Co Ltd for a huge sum (as long as there is a buyer, of course) ? substantially greater than what he paid 9 years (!!!) ago, and substantially greater than he could get now, if he were to sell without the benefit of the stadium.

That?s ignoring any deal-sweetners that I feel sure have been passing around under the table. On the one hand, call it good stewardship. On the other, call it making a killing while killing off the heart and soul of the club. It?s all down to individual perception, as every stadium thread on here demonstrates.

Either way, he stands to make one helluvalot of mullah!
Mark Perry
16   Posted 05/12/2007 at 22:02:46

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They dont gain personaly. The fact is the No voters despite losing the vote scream blue murder whenever Kirkby is spoken of.

The fact is that the Loop is too small and would be a nightmare to build on. Re-developing GP would also be a nightmare as the whole thing would have to be pulled down to start again as the infrastructure is well past its sell by date. The council wont give us the area around it so there is no extra room and in a sence we would be swapping like for like.

As for the cost, if you re-develop Gp you lose revenue as the capacity is smaller or taken away totaly if the ground is flattend. And we lose the help from TESCO.

If you have an extra 250,000,000 lying around then by all means buy the club and close GP and re-develop it. If you dont and you are an armchair logistical, financial and architectural wizard - shut the F**K UP cos we are all sick and tired of hearing it!
Steve Hogan
17   Posted 05/12/2007 at 22:05:05

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Michael Kenrick, as one of the editors of this site I?m suprised and a little disappointed with your statement ? deal sweetners have been passing around under the table?!

Just where do you get your inside information?

Do you really believe this is all a covert plot by Kenwright then just to ensure he has enough funds for his eventual retirement whenever that may be?

Talk about responsible comments by the editorial team without a single shred of evidence!
Sandy Brown
18   Posted 05/12/2007 at 22:33:00

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As the projected costs for Kirkby creep ever higher, the board’s so-called "mandate" is looking flimsier and flimsier. Their "mandate" (considerably less than half the eligible voters) was based on the Tescodrome costing the club buttons. If Kirkby is going to cost a lot more than the original shadowy figures that were alluded to (not that any hard figures have ever been presented) then a revitalised Goodison must be revisited as an option.
Tom Morris
19   Posted 05/12/2007 at 22:36:46

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Frankly, your ?deal sweeteners? comment is outrageous to dsay the least.

Unless you can back up that kind of inflammatory accusation and your "I feel sure..." add-on suggests that you genuinely can?t, then really you?d be better not to say anything at all.

As Editor of this mailbag, that kind of thing shows you in a very poor light and is, in my opinion, utterly and incredibly irresponsible. A really poor show, mate.
Michael Kenrick
20   Posted 05/12/2007 at 22:45:16

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Sorry to frighten the sensitive souls on here but I?ll say it again just to make sure you get it this time: "...ignoring any deal-sweetners that I feel sure have been passing around under the table." Okay... maybe that shoulkd say "... will be..." instead of "... have been".

Aren?t you the ones who are so quick to tell us "romantics" that football is now a "business", run for the money? Isn?t it also corrupt at every level? Of course I don?t have any evidence but it is really them (Kenmwright and Wyness) who should be required to state to the fans and the shareholders exactly what they will gain financially from this deal, for I have no doubt whatsoever that they will both gain substantially, one way or another.

I already cited one mechanism (Kenwright?s share value) and I see no-one has challenged that.
Tom Hughes
21   Posted 05/12/2007 at 22:46:48

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How come it’s now going to cost the club £200m to redevelop GP (when it possibly only requires one new stand to get the same capacity as Kirkby), yet it only costs £110m to build a whole new stadium in Kirkby. The club should stick to cooking their own projects figures before they try to inflate the alternatives wildly. Kirkby will cost the club at least £50m Wyness said himself. This has more recently been quoted as £80m....... if we can find that for Kirkby we can find it for GP, with the added and priceless benefit of not jeopardising our identity/heritage and splitting our fanbase, and exposing us to the logistical nightmare of getting 40-50,000 up a couple of dual carriageways, and on a handfull of buses and trains. This is the bottom line we were deceived massively regarding costs (and therefore the viability of options), and the whole transport issue. As far as the Loop is concerned, this hasn’t been given any chance by the club at all. The site is big enough for any stadium that would suit our needs. It is physically big enough to easily accommodate the emirates, and the covering of a section of cutting is a trivial construction exercise. The Emirates incidentally sits inside the apex of 2 converging railway lines and is linked to the outside areas via relatively narrow road bridges. There are several examples of stadia that have achieved far greater capacities with greater restraints.
Neil Pearse
22   Posted 05/12/2007 at 23:00:04

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Michael, agree that Bill will benefit if he can sell the club one day after seeing it through a difficult period, securing a new stadium, and supporting the development of a top premiership club. He will, and if he achieves it, then who’s to say he doesn’t deserve it? Well done Bill is what I will say as an Everton supporter. We could have become Leeds.

The ’deal-sweeteners’ comment is hower an unsupported, disgraceful slander for which you have absolutely no evidence. You should be throughly ashamed of yourself for not only making it but then repeating it. You should put up the evidence or withdraw it immediately.

And on a night when the boys have done us proud again and we are through as the top of our group. You don’t think that this might have anything to do with the stewardship of our club of our club over the last few years? Oh, forget it! I give up.
Neil Pearse
23   Posted 05/12/2007 at 23:16:37

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And what did The Emirates cost to build, Tom? About the projected cost of Kirkby?
Mick Mac
24   Posted 05/12/2007 at 23:19:50

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For Gods sake Tom. You yourself keep bleating on about cost of the Kirkby project but wont mention the possible cost escalation which will happen at the loop or even Goodison for that mater. The LCC will have us jumping through hoops if we ever move away from the idea of Kirkby. They have had their chance and fucked it up. Let them have the Redshite they deserve each other.
Alex May
25   Posted 05/12/2007 at 23:29:40

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Stuart, Trevor Skempton has suggested that it would cost less to redevelop Goodison (albeit leaving about 20% of the obstructed views) than the now inflated costs of building Kirkby.

Why would it cost £200m to redevelop Goodison. Has Wyness been reading you some bedtime stories?

That?s Trevor Skempton who redesigned St. James? Park. He knows rather more than the ill-informed fool who was there last night as this year?s sacrificial lamb.

We might not be moving there yet. I looks like BK is feeling the strain a bit. Time to turn up the pressure and we may get this huge mistake stopped yet.
Colin Malone
26   Posted 06/12/2007 at 06:49:58

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I was suprised to hear Bill say, That at the AGM, was the first time he has felt the anger of the anti Kirkby move, saying he did not see anything on match days. So maybe its time to let our feeling known while he is the city and that is only on a match day. I,m not saying a massive demonstration but something like tee shirts, flags ect, and let him see the true feeling of the fans. We all know from the media and the club[Wyness] the vote was fixed, BENT.
Roy Warne
27   Posted 06/12/2007 at 09:11:38

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Mick Mac; LCC fucked up big time as you say didn?t they? they fucked up so badly that all they could bend over backwards to offer us was the premier location in the city i.e. the Kings Dock.
Steve Lyth
28   Posted 06/12/2007 at 09:39:38

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Neil, as you say there is nothing to stop people trying to buy shares in Everton FC but they will only get them if they are available.
Bill has secured the majority with his mate Earl and the reality is they wont sell.
Neither man has the will or the financial clout to take this club forward, indeed Earls own aspirations are to market the Global rights to Everton and make a packet out of doing so. He see,s a lot of potential at Everton, too fucking right he does !!!
He is no Everton fan and he has no interest in the ordinary supporter he said as much at the AGM. Tonys comments were bang on and shook Kenwright to the core, the man will go down in infamy if we go to Kirkby and lose our core support over the years, better to sell Bill and walk away with your head held high.
To those who voted Earl in, what do you know about the man ?
Neil Pearse
29   Posted 06/12/2007 at 12:17:56

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So: Bill won’t sell, even if he gets a fantastic offer. Or: Bill is just lining his own pockets and taking sweeteners (I see Michael this claim has not yet been supported or retracted).

Could you Nos sort your story out please? Which is to be?

Or is it: we have become so fanatically ant-Bill that we will just hit him with anything shit that we can sling at him?
Steve Lyth
30   Posted 06/12/2007 at 12:52:31

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Now thats a different story Neil, I think he would take a fantastic offer, one that would suit him and his vision for the club.
Given the financial plight we are in I cant see it happening anytime soon tho and he certainly is not looking to water down his share holding during the interim.
Lee Spargo
31   Posted 06/12/2007 at 13:05:52

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ha ha ha

stick another tier on the park end, give the bullens road a lick of paint, and get rid of those posts in the main stand.

i’ve heard it all now.

Jay Campbell
32   Posted 06/12/2007 at 13:06:18

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Neil Pearse Kenwright says that no Investors have come forward for Everton. Can you take his word as Gospel??? I can’t.
Michael Kenrick
33   Posted 06/12/2007 at 14:13:21

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Neil, you can harp on all you like. I voiced a suspicion that this deal will have its sweetners for the key people involved. That is not proof, that is not evidence, it?s a suspicion I have and it?s a suspicion I?m sure many who have looked into the sordid finances of football and business will share.

The question was asked, "by moving the club to Kirkby, how will BK personally benefit?" Firstly there is the FACT of a huge increase in club value and in the share price he can command. That is going to be worth many millions of pounds to Bill Kenwright. It?s a dispassionate assessment I figured out by looking at past history and projecting forward. Nothing whatsoever to do wiith whether I love or hate Bill Kenwright

Then there is the SUSPICION of additional deal sweetners, (would it help if they were called ?bonuses??) if not for him then certainly for Wyness, who incidentally has secured the most amazing non-Conflict of Interest waiver for his side dealings at Everton. You can?t simply dismss stuff as being hatred or being "anti-Bill" just because you find it unpaletable or want to close your eyes and pretend it doesn?t exist.

Alan Ryder
34   Posted 06/12/2007 at 17:14:38

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Went to the match last night in the pitch black, stood in dog shit had 3 newspapers wrapped round me leg and burger wrappers flying past me face as wind whipped up all around us. Could smell weed wafting out of alleys congregated by hoodies who gave a friendly smile and a wave on the way past. Fought me way through the crowd to me seat in the Upper Bullens, which the nice man in the ticket office promised was an unobstructed view; a different one to normal just in line with the Gwladys Street end penalty spot. Can you tell me who took the spot kick as there was a fucking big post in the way! Oh the grand old lady!
Gavin Ramejkis
35   Posted 06/12/2007 at 22:41:32

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Can someone please show me where Sir Terry Leahy has stated that Tesco will be paying anything towards the new Everton stadium if it is built in Kirkby? The deal is being pitched as if Tesco are paying a proportion of it. The development site requires an element of leisure which Tesco would like to bring Everton in to represent but didn’t he say Tesco would be supplying their builder and some discount? Since when does that equate to any money from Tesco? Tesco do not own Barr Construction they are just their main business partner.

As Neil so eloquently states in his responses, show me fact and remove where possible assumptions. No slanging matches just facts please, the development of Goodison I believe is around the £230m mark but surely that is the complete finished cost and the plan would be phased giving increased capacity during that project’s life cycle thus generating income streams in itself and payment towards further stages. As a project manager I can see this approach within the realms of feasibility.

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