ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Johann Vogel...

Sky has it he's set to sign in January. Betis are going to let him leave on a free. Is this the man Moyes intends to start in Carsley's position or is he bringing him in to bulk up the squad? Either way another international on a free no complaints from me!
Stephen Davies, Bolton Posted 12/12/2007 at 11:45:48

back Return to the Mail Bag

Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer

Erik Dols
1 Posted 12/12/2007 at 10:36:44

Hmmmm good signing but hasn't played in half a year...

Dave Trudgeon
2 Posted 12/12/2007 at 11:07:15

I would love us to get him on a free and then get Appiah as well. If we had Vogel we could survive the ANC until Appiah gets back. I know his wages could be highish and he's not the long term solution but Vogel could do a job, cos i can't see Carsley being able to play every game.

John Lloyd
3 Posted 12/12/2007 at 12:21:31

He does fit the bill of talented, international midfielder, who fits the physical requirements that he mentioned (Tall-ish, athletic). He may be the Goodison one, in response to an earlier post. First of a few hopefully.

El-ray Jackson
4 Posted 12/12/2007 at 11:43:23

He's thirty years old and has a wealth of experience, he can take over the Carsley role for a few years. What's worrying me though is, what if hes "the one" that Moyes was talking about! Hes a defensive midfielder, we need attacking minded players. I really hope that he's not the only addition in January.

Matt Bone
5 Posted 12/12/2007 at 13:06:41

Just seen a report suggesting that Vogel will now be free to join Everton in January, 6 months after an earlier deal collapsed over a pay wrangle at his current club.

Apparently he has been a class player but I have never seen much of him so can really comment but how quickly will he settle having not played for 6 months?

I do agree that Midfield reinforcements should eb a top priority but surely if his contract is temrinated he could in theory join us immediately and have a better chance of settling in for last few months of the season.

Does anyone know what sort of player his is? I'm guessing at 30 he is no Tim Cahill. I also wouldnt have thought at 30 he is an ideal replacement for Cars but maybe just a short-term fix.

Andy Ellams
6 Posted 12/12/2007 at 13:28:50

Good signing, especially on a reported free but we still need at least one more new name during the window. Definitely need some cover in the middle of defence.

James Elworthy
7 Posted 12/12/2007 at 13:35:50

Good Points:
a) he is cheap
b) he adds depth to the midfield
c) Backs up Carsley and means Neville and Jagielka can now play in defence only which adds to the depth in that area
d) The holding midfield player role is a position you mature into, after all 2 years ago Carsley was not a player we would be praising every week like we do now.

Negative Points
a) He is 30 but having said that he does play a role a maturer player usually fulfils better
b) He hasnt played for 6 months so he is rusty.
c) He didnt hack it at his last club (but having said that neither did Pienaar)

So weighing that up I would say lets hope he will be a good signing and he isnt a Marc Hottiger.

Pienaar and Yakubu have both come on leaps and bounds since the day they signed and maybe if this guy is definitely coming, he can start training with us now so by January he will be much fitter and know the other players.

Joe McMahon
8 Posted 12/12/2007 at 13:52:35

Doesn’t it just prove Why Celitic loaned Graveson out. He should be filling in for Carsley.

Andy Morden
9 Posted 12/12/2007 at 13:59:55

He is 5’8" tall and has has already been pointed out has hardly kicked a ball this season. I am unsure if he really is the tall, dominating holding midfielder / playmaker we need.

I suppose this fevered speculation is down to the transfer window reopening again in the next 3 weeks. Should we learn the lessons of the summer and rather than rabidly speculating just see what happenes?

John Lloyd
10 Posted 12/12/2007 at 13:59:52

Graveson never has or never will be a holding midfielder (as Real Madrid found out!)

Maybe I mis-understood Joe McMahons post.

This Vogel fella has played for PSV, AC Milan & is a Swiss international. So he is obviously talented, hopefully if Moyes can get his fitness up which souldnt be a problem we could have unearthed a little gem here & 30 for modern day footballers is bang in his prime, he could play on at top level for another 5/6 years!!!

Fingers crossed lids

Keith Glazzard
11 Posted 12/12/2007 at 14:23:04

With little knowledge of the player, I know that 30 is no problem (isn’t Tim 29?). I agree with much of what James and John have said. If this all goes ahead, it looks like Moyes is strengthening the squad where Cars plays - he doesn’t need replacing, as we all know. And Tommy might look the part, but his strength lies further up the field (and hopefully in his legs).

One point to look out for is that we have players who are either left-sided or well balanced enough to be comfortable defending on the left. No need to explain why.

David Barks
12 Posted 12/12/2007 at 15:35:42

I hope this comes off once the window opens up. We need quality players in the middle of the park and this guy seems to fit the bill given his past. Don’t read too much into him not playing this year as that is because of the contractual bust up between him and the club. He wanted to leave and they blocked it, that is why they are not playing him, much like the Riquelme situation was at Villareal. Picking him up on a free would give us a player with a few good years left and not use any transfer funds.

Niall Clinton
13 Posted 12/12/2007 at 17:03:56

Vogel is a getter and a giver, he keeps the ball moving and doesn’t give it away much, nothing sensational, not much pace, no silky skills but a player type that every team needs. I would liken him to Michael Carrick in that he never does anything sensational and you will never see him beat a man but he keeps the ball moving around him.
Moyes has started the transition for us to be a ball playing team as opposed to kick and rush so Vogel would be the latest addition to that transition. He’s been at Milan and coveted by Man Utd so has the pedigree and having had a disappointing time of late he would be another player coming to us to prove a point (like Pienaar, Arteta etc) so if he’s free then get him in for 6 months and we can judge him as fans along with Davie. It’s not a gamble, its a trial of sorts and is potential proven quality enhancing our squad

Connor Rohrer
14 Posted 12/12/2007 at 19:00:06

Decent signing if on a free but nothing special. If he’s our one January signing then I’ll be dissapointed.

In terms of style he’s defensive not attacking. From what I’ve seen of him he breaks up play like Carsley and gives the simple pass. Never seen this so called excellent ball retention and passing skills that others claim he has. But saying that he is a terrier. He does get stuck in and does have good postioning. The English game would suit him more than the Spanish. Good one to share the holding position with Carsley.

Last time I actually seen him play was the World cup in which he looked pretty average but I’m sure there is a decent player in there as he has played for Milan and PSV. Had a shocker against France and got sent off in one game if I remeber correctly.

Decent signing but not the long term answer and hopefully we will bring someone in alongside him in January.

Rupert Coghlan
15 Posted 12/12/2007 at 22:53:41

He seems to have had a good pedigree and history, but he is short - 5ft 8 or something. We won’t get away with having the shortest midfield much longer - if you throw him in there with Osman, Pienaar, Arteta and Cahill then the average height is 5ft 8 / 5ft 9.

We need a dominating, 6ft plus midfield general - of which there aren’t many out there. I can see the logic of getting someone like Sissoko - just not him. He’s a dirty player and a dirty red too.

Appiah seems a no-go as he would get called up to the ANC every other year. If I’m dreaming I would be interested in a two year deal for Gilberto Silva, but I cant see that one happening.

The thing is, this next signing could be the difference between us winning a cup or making Champions League in the next 3 years. Lucho Gonzalez?

Glen Strachan
16 Posted 12/12/2007 at 23:32:30

Lucho G is a cracking player and would be a good signing but can?t see him being available before the Summer.

Same with Appiah although I agree with the poster who pointed out that we should be careful about signing too many African players who will be away mid-season every two years.

Lucho would also face long trips home to play in Argentina.

But the original posting was about Vogel and while I can?t see him as ?the one? , he would be a decent signing and would be starting his season like Cahill did after a long absence and indeed Arteta was missing for almost a season before he signed.

I am not aware of any weight problems for Vogel and would be surprised if he arrived out of condition.

Lastly , I know he is no kid but why do so many posters seem to want to replace Lee Carsley?

That bugger is just getting better as he gets older and think how good he might be when he reaches 40.