ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

Mark Wilson
1 Posted 14/12/2007 at 06:32:39

My opinion - West ham seemed to take particular pleasure in targeting him for continuous fouling, whether it was gentle or otherwise. This continued throughout the match until Neill eventually got booked. Bear in mind he is small and lightweight similar to AJ who was also singled out 2 years ago for the same comments. If you have a player small, lightweight, fast and skilful and the opposition know this, target the palyer and he will always be at the loosing end of the tackles and then get pointed out for being a cheat.

Dan McKie
2 Posted 14/12/2007 at 08:43:55

He gets the free-kicks so the ref must judge them as fouls so no he aint a cheat, he just knows how to make a player foul him which he has probably learnt from the master that is Arteta!

Nick Entwistle
3 Posted 14/12/2007 at 08:47:57

I have to say, AJ aside there hasn’t been any diving from Everton for years. This season I’ve seen Arteta start to go down far too easily (Re Dan "he just knows how to make a player foul him "... bollocks. He knows how to make it look like he’s being fouled).
At West Ham he and Pienaar made no attempt to stay on their feet, and being with the West Ham support on Wednesday I was agreeing with them in their protest against the actions of the two. As above, its not diving per se, it is making no extra effort to stay on your feet when you get a shove... it is a physical game after all so I don’t like what these two do. It brings us down to the level of the Gerrards and Ronaldos of this world.
Having said that, maybe Moyes knows that the difference in qualifying for Europe or CL is only a matter of a few well ’won’ free kicks around the area.

Eddie Harrison
4 Posted 14/12/2007 at 09:08:24

I listened to the radio 5 libe coverage too. And it did seem to be an issue. Although ti should be noted it was Alan Green commentating, and he will always find an issue with Everton

Trev Clarke
5 Posted 14/12/2007 at 09:03:44

Nick are you sure you aint a closet West Ham fan, I to was at the game as i live in Essex but unlike you was on the right side of the tracks with the Evertonians and all I can say is neill targeted pienaar all night as he was probably given the job by curbs.

Pienaar obviously new he was being targeted by him so he turned the tables on him after all they are pro’s at this game, pienaar although I dont think dived he just played as a pro which lets face it most players in the prem do, and I for one wont knock him or arteta for it.

West Ham as usual just maoned that they aint as good as they think they are.

Everton are slowly becoming a team of serious pro’s who know how to win a game from being behind and how to turn the tables on teams who are trying all kinds to rough em up.

Take a look at the top 4 in the prem they all do what Everton did to West Ham and I hope they do it to more teams and keep the blues pushing for a cup.

Nick Entwistle
6 Posted 14/12/2007 at 09:22:11

Hey Trev,

What exactly do you mean by ’turned the tables on him’ and ’he just played as a pro’. If you mean to say he influenced the ref’s decisions by reacting like he had been fouled then yes, that is why I was critising both of them. So what if they have been ’targeted’, what’s wrong with a bit of rough and tumble, as long as the tumbling isn’t from conning the ref.
Oh and beleive me, i wish I was in with the blues, even a winner two minutes from time and what can I do other than have no reaction. Don’t want to Cockney fist in me face.

Shez
7 Posted 14/12/2007 at 09:25:34

What utter bollocks!! Steven Pienaar is not a diver ... full stop! Neill is a f*cking thug, anyone that knows anything about football knows this. He targetted Pienaar from the start of the match and continued to push, shove, kick and elbow him at every opportunity.

Anyone siding with the Hammers and that moron Alan Green just hasnt got a clue.

Unbelievable, we’re unbeaten in 11 games and we’ve got our own fans labelling Johnson and Pienaar as divers!

Give me strength.

Allan Hobbs
8 Posted 14/12/2007 at 09:35:46

It wasnt diving as such; he was targeted by Lucas Neill (nothing new there, players are always given roles to fulfill) and he handled it by going down pretty easily at times - all part & parcel of football. If West Ham had won the game we’d have heard nothing about this. If the milk turns sour......

Amanda Huddleston
9 Posted 14/12/2007 at 09:43:06

I watched the match - Pienaar was being fouled however, the ease at which he fell was on occasion dubious.

I think as he is a sppedy well balanced player a slight knock can upset this. But his over reactions just got the Ref?s back up.

As a result - when there were a few defo free kicks we lost out.

I suggest Pienaar takes a leaf out of Lescotts book and gets on with it!

Lee Mather
10 Posted 14/12/2007 at 09:44:38

It always used to be said that to beat the Arsenal you had to go and "rough them up" to break up their fluent football.

With the likes of Arteta and Pienaar being constantly fouled to break up their fluency it’s a sort of backhanded compliment and a sign perhaps of how our style has changed recently.

Curb’s team talk would have been along the lines of "Fuck them up so they can’t play it about" rather than "Battle for the hoofball we know is coming"

James Trotter
11 Posted 14/12/2007 at 09:47:45

When you are continuously targeted why should a player have an obligation to try and stay on his feet when he is fouled? He isn?t feigning the foul, like Ronaldo et al.

By doing that you are putting yourself at a disadvantage to the rest of the premiership.

Ask Andy Johnson.

Chris McGlynn
12 Posted 14/12/2007 at 09:46:37

I sort of agree in principle with Neil on this. But these days (whether it’s right or wrong) I’ve come to expect a professional player to hit the ground when they’ve been tripped in the penalty area even when they could have stayed on their feet. It’s becoming more difficult to draw a line at what’s acceptable to maximise the position for your team and what’s cheating.

However, I think Pienaar has a habit of throwing both his arms in the air before collapsing "platoon" style when he’s under a little pressure from a defender. He’s a great player little player but he went down so often and so dramatically on Wednesday night that even we started to laugh about it and we were in the blue end.

Osman is no heavier but he seems to draw a different line to Pienaar as to what’s acceptable and is more prepared to ride the rough and tumble and just get on with it.

Neil McKinney
13 Posted 14/12/2007 at 09:36:04

We may not like it but it is part of the game at this level. This is not playing footy on the park with your mates Nick, it is the top level of football and there is a lot at stake.

I don’t like to see players throw themselves to the floor when there is no contact, but buying a foul is different. Maybe Arteta (and now Pienaar by the sounds of it) do go down easy, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a foul. It’s called drawing the foul. Show them the ball, then nick it away at the last minute and fall over their challenge.

Your integrity is honorable Nick, but unfortunately the game has little place for that level of honesty these days. Generally our team hasn’t been to bad at the gamesmanship over the years, but we have lacked the flair players that are usually guilty of it. Now we have them, it’s hardly surprising that we are seeing some soft freekicks going our way.

It is clear to me that West Ham had a game plan and that was to try and knock players like Pienaar, Arteta and Osman around. They probably figured that we were physically inferior in midfield and they could bully us. On another day and with a different ref it may have worked, but this was our day, a very blue day.

COYB!

Shaun Brennan
14 Posted 14/12/2007 at 10:13:32

I did think he went down to easily at times. but to be fair. foul or not he always gets up straight after. he gives it as much as he receives it too. keep up the good work

Bill Egan
15 Posted 14/12/2007 at 10:07:51

If we are being honest Everton players are no saints and they do dive, as does every professional football player now. Its pro bably the worst aspect of professional footbal now. However it seems to me that the only players who get criticised are foreign players. When do we hear any criticism of Steven Gerrard, Wayne Rooney, Frank Lampard, Joe Cole, I could go on.
All players dive and the only way it will stop is when the manager of a team comes out and criticises his own players for diving, but thats not going to happen is it?
Instead we get stupid comments from so called experts saying that there was contact when minimal contact or no contact has taken place. Surely the idea should be to try and stay on your feet not fall to the floor when challenges are made.

Allan Hobbs
16 Posted 14/12/2007 at 10:31:52

Most fouled player in the Premiership?

Mikel Arteta. The way he plays draws fouls continuously but nobody ever says he’s a diver. Its the professional game nowadays.

Nick Entwistle
17 Posted 14/12/2007 at 10:26:46

I guess it comes down to a comment above: ’why should a player have an obligation to try and stay on his feet when he is fouled?

In my oppinion if he is being fouled then the ref will make the decision and doesn’t need a player sprawling on the floor to assist his decision making.
You can be awarded a free kick even if you stay on your feet. If players are going to fall on the floor on the slightest contact, then I’d only start agreeing with the posts above when football becomes officially a non-contact sport.

But I guess its to be expected nowadays, and maybe I have to live with it... not though the non contact diving of Ronaldo, Gerrard etc...

David teece
18 Posted 14/12/2007 at 10:40:37

Does anyone really care what Alan Green thinks or says? The guy is employed to make statements that ensure that match commentaries are lively and controversial. Just look at his recent history-offensive, racist and opinionated. I would suggest that supporters think carefully before allowing themselves to be drawn into his games. If you allow yourselves to get drawn in then he has achieved his goal (pardon the footballing pun!).

Danny Geary
19 Posted 14/12/2007 at 11:11:04

A dive is when you haven't been touched. Arteta an Pienaar only go down when touched. Like it or not if we want to compete at the top we have to be more professional timewasting when need be going down easier. We used to be to nice an let other teams do it to us. I'm glad that we are becoming tougher an more clever in our tactics.

Garry Martin
20 Posted 14/12/2007 at 11:19:55

I listened to BBC5 Live aswell and commented to my mate last night that never in my life have i ever see such a biased commentator in my life. This guy was practically begging for Pienaar to be given a yellow for diving. When Moyesey said at the end that it was the best we have played under him I couldn?t believe it. BBC had us down as lucky to scrape 1-1 at half time. I have come to expect this, I live in Jersey and when i am not at home have to listen to all the southern bollocks about how well Arsenal, West Ham etc are doing on radio stations.

Stefan Tosev
21 Posted 14/12/2007 at 11:18:11

Nick, I watched again the highlights on EvertonTV, I wached the game via Internet on Wednesday too and every time Piennar hit the ground there was a contact, not one clear dive.

In the end he was also brutally fouled and didnt get a foul, as you are complaining that he is "diving" I prefer more Wenger’s comments that he was not protected enough last night by the refferee

Nick Entwistle
22 Posted 14/12/2007 at 11:51:22

Yeah but Stefan,

was the contact on Pienaar enough for him to go down and hit the deck by itself or deed he intentionally collapse when contact happened. If he collapsed intentionally then its a dive or atleast a cheating action.

Aiden Jones
23 Posted 14/12/2007 at 12:45:39

Alan Green was at the Rangers game on Weds night not watching us.

Sam Morrison
24 Posted 14/12/2007 at 13:01:12

Nick are you going to do another bit on Tesco? No-one else seems to give a rats as about the kind of company they are...

Allan Hobbs
25 Posted 14/12/2007 at 13:03:37

I was about 50ft away from Pienaar for at least 3 of them, and from where I was sitting he went down very easily. Fair play to him though; the whole world of modern footballers do it, its part-n-parcel of the game. He just did it 3 or 4 times in quick succesion so its gotten noticed; once he realised he wasnt getting anywhere he stayed on his feet and we created more.

Theres nothing wrong with a bit of kidology - Lucas Neill was all over him a lot of the time, fairly I might add so well done Pienaar for chancing his arm. As someone else said, we?ve been too soft over the years, its about time we wised up. Welcome to 21st century football.

Franny Porter
26 Posted 14/12/2007 at 13:06:35

What I think, is that we should let all opposition full backs kick seven shades of shit out of our wingers, although this is illegal according to the laws of the game lets just let them get on with it.

In return, our wingers should never go down, whether clattered or not. Sod the rules.

While were at it, we should also only field ten players, tie the goalies hands together and not allow our players to play the ball over head height.

Neil Styles
27 Posted 14/12/2007 at 13:35:42

I know this is not a great mentality for a fan of our proud club to have but I’m a big believer in the theory of ’the end justifies the means’ and so I couldnt give a tin whistle if Steven or Mikel go down easily. If our boys cheated from minute one to minute 90, I would have no problems once we got the right result. In saying this, however, I do think AJ has been wrongly accused of being a diver but if he or any of our lads want to take up simulation to aid us in our climb up the table-they’re welcome to.

Nick Xenos
28 Posted 14/12/2007 at 15:04:52

I think the success and experience that we’ve had in Europe recently has turned us into a totally different team, a more ’street-wise’ team shall we say. We are starting to do the little things that ’big’ teams do such as keeping posession of the ball for long periods of time, time waste when needed, and draw fouls around the penalty area. This style of play may not be everyone’s cup of tea but what the heck...if you can’t beat ’em join ’em! Mind you, now that we’ve joined them, we’ll start beating them!

Toffee
29 Posted 14/12/2007 at 15:52:10

Steven Pienaar Song ..... to the Tune of Music Man (Pi-a-pi-a -piano piano piano!!)

He is South African
He comes from far away
AND HE CAN PLAAAA-AY, AND HE CAN PLAAAAAY!
He plays the football....
PI-E-PI-E PIENAAR PIENAAR PIENAAR, PI-E-PIENAAR, PI-E - PI-E- NAAAAR!!!!

CLASS!!!!

El-ray Jackson
30 Posted 14/12/2007 at 16:18:51

Arteta no way is a diver. If you watch him carefully he only goes down when there are no other options available. When a pass is not on, when he is cornered. when he knocks the ball too far ahead of himself and he knows that the opposition will regain possession. And when he does go down he never dives,theres always contact, he makes it look as though hes been fouled. He dosnt over do it, as if hes been shot in the back. So no one can point a finger at him and call him a diver. Its just perfect, the way he does it. He is an Artist.