ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

The Club of God

Whenever I think about players who were linked with us and have subsequently decided to play for another side. Manny being the latest in a long list of players. Isnt it strange that they always seem to fall on bad luck?

Sissoko went to Liverpoool and is now looking for out.
Parker and Emre boith went to the barcodes and again havent set the world alight ? so much so Parker was sold to West Ham.
Barmby went to Liverpool and look what happened to that gobshite.
Jeffers went to the Arsenal and bombed after too long.
Michael Ball the same.
Radzinski... need I go on??
I think we have the hand of god on our side so can anyone else think of others who have spurned us and come a cropper.
Mick Mac, St. Helens Posted 18/12/2007 at 18:23:06

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Michael Kenrick

Funny how you started with Players who were Linked with us but never came... and then slipped quietly into Players that came to us but then Left. It's a nice thought... but couldn't this god of yours give us some more bloody trophies once in a while?

Jarrod Prosser
1 Posted 18/12/2007 at 21:29:36

I?m prepared to be corrected, here, but wasn?t Ball sold to balance the books?

Not sure he especially wanted to leave.

Mick Mac
2 Posted 18/12/2007 at 21:37:34

The reason I changed my tack Michalel is the fact that we have literally been linked with thousands over the last few years. So I decided to stick with the one’s I know about.
Hey my god is delivering you cant deny we are a lot further on than we have been This could certainly be the year.

Michael Kenrick
3 Posted 18/12/2007 at 21:35:51

There’s an element of financial management in all such sales I would think, but the story we got was that he basically had fallen out with Smith who had no intention of playing him. But then he was also carrying a career-threatening injury that somehow didn’t scupper his medical, so who knows what really went on? We await the autobiography,,,,

Richard Dawkins
4 Posted 18/12/2007 at 21:40:31

Would this be the same god that allowed the redshyte to win the Champions League the year we finished 4th?? And the same god that allowed us to be banned from Europe at the height of our power??? I prefer to believe that hard work has us were we are. We are not called the school of science for nothing! Congratulate yourself when you achieve, you done the work not the great spaghetti monster in the sky!!

Mick Simo
5 Posted 18/12/2007 at 21:43:36

Fuck me, I am glad we got rid of Roney, granny bonker and now a beast. And we play them at the weekend... can you hear the chants "Beast, beast". Let's hope their minds are elswhere, after all them sleepless nights... Evening all... what's your name? Mr Shrek, officer... ha ha!!

James Elworthy
6 Posted 18/12/2007 at 21:55:08

Smith got rid of Dunne and Ball now both playing well for City. Not sure if Dunne would of gone of the rails like he did under Moyes.
Not sure if Dunne & Yobo would of made a good partnership as both prone to an odd lapse of concentration.

Kieran Fitzgerald
7 Posted 18/12/2007 at 22:08:47

Of recent players, I think Dunne is the one that really got away. He?s been a tower at the back for city for a number of seasons. I think with him it was as much to do with attitude at the time as anything else. The guy was more interested in parties than playing the part of a professional footballer.

With Ball, it?s a knee injury that was the injury in question. He surfaced recently on this site, partly in some of my own posts, when he became available on a free, just before city signed him. The question of his fitness never really came into play and like Michael said, who knows.

The thing is, of that youth cup winning team, Dunne excepted, no one career was what it could or should have been. Branch and Cadamartari are the better known examples of some of the youngsters drifting down the leagues, but the rest seem to have disappeared.

Tony Horne
8 Posted 18/12/2007 at 22:22:33

Stan Collymore, Dean Saunders, Gary Breen (or whatever his name is), Ravanelli, Wayne Whatisface, Paul Gascoigne, but the greatest of all has to be Barmby - suffer Baby suffer!

Rob Jones
9 Posted 18/12/2007 at 22:34:32

Nah I get the feeling that if we had that god of yours on our side, wed have signed those gold-digging bastards

Peter Pridgeon
10 Posted 18/12/2007 at 23:06:39

I am with Richard Dawkins here (if thats your real name) however I am inclined to think if there really is a god, Allah, spaghetti monster or whatever, he is unfortunately a koppite.
We just do not have luck or a guiding hand of a space zombie on our side, whatever Everton achieve it will be a long hard slog with little or no recognition.

Anthony Newell
11 Posted 18/12/2007 at 23:56:22

Michael, I will tell you what went on: Michael Ball asked for a better contract/wages and indicated a desire to be the captain of Everton Football Club. Smith didn’t like him (or Dunne for that matter) and would not cede to his requests which left him little option but leave

Ian Tunny
12 Posted 19/12/2007 at 00:21:04

Yes but what about the ones that got away:
Essien £3m
Beni MCarthy £2m
Carrick £2m
Flamani
Deco

Stig Meacham
13 Posted 19/12/2007 at 00:50:39

Mick, no offence mate, but if there’s a club that’s been touched by the hand of God it’s that shower from across the park, certainly not us. If they’re any example, crybabies are the chosen ones.

I feel like we battle against god, if anything.

Sorry for any implied insult, Christian people. Please don’t get angry at me as I was writing in the abstract.

Paul Cook
14 Posted 19/12/2007 at 02:46:31

Mick, I understand your point mate, but it’s nothing to do with god. Just hard work by good players and a good manager. And wonderful fans of course. God doesn’t exist, only hard work, skill, good tactics etc.

Stig, don’t worry about insulting Christians. If they believe in a fairtystory then they should expect ridicule.

Chris Dottie
15 Posted 19/12/2007 at 08:17:16

We do expect ridicule Paul, especially from people who invent words like "fairtystory".

On a less neanderthal and abusive point, I agree with the general feeling that while it’s nice to see some players fail our club has had to put up with a lot more bad luck than most. That’s what makes it more enjoyable when we carry on regardless, doesn’t it ?

Paul Cook
16 Posted 19/12/2007 at 08:29:01

Sorry. I meant to stay fairystory. Spelling has never been my strongest point. What gets me is that we’re talking about some so-called god in the 21st century!! If ever beat Man Utd and Arsenal, it will be down to bloody good football by Everton. Or, maybe, Manure and Arse having an off day. Not some miracle or devine intervention by some bloke in the sky! Strange how he can help us best the Hammers but not stop genocide in Rwanda!

Richard Dawkins
17 Posted 19/12/2007 at 08:51:44

It really annoys me when I see players such as Kaka pointing to the sky and blessing themselves after scoring a goal. Fifa should crack down on this nonsense, how can a player be booked for lifting his shirt off in celebration or running towards his own fans. I recommend instant dismissal for any show of religious icons, be it wearing a crucifix or blessing oneself when entering the field of play or scoring a goal. Kaka, you do not belong to Jebus, you belong to AC Milan football club. Religion dumbs the mind!!

Patty Beesley
18 Posted 19/12/2007 at 09:18:04

Someone mentioned Rooney in their letter above - I was in a shop yesterday which was exhibiting the new OK magaine with dear Rooney and WAG adoring the front cover. A man in front of me in the queue looked at Rooney and said "Only his mother could love that face - don?t you agree? I said "Yep I do because I am an Evertonian" and this was in Carmarthen. :Let?s hope he doesn?t score against us at the weekend - don?t think I could bear seeing him running over to the Man U supporters kissing his badge.

David Smith
19 Posted 19/12/2007 at 09:29:14

I should not think God carries out vendettas to avenge players who turned down ?His? club.

As for ?Fairy Tales?, I don?t know of many which tell of near-death scourging, torture, and crucifixion, all accepted in sacrifice to save others from damnation. But then as you say this is the 21st century when men are more intelligent and ?liberated? from the chains of belief which actually make them think about why they exist other than because a couple of cells (out of nowhere) suddenly decided to fuse together with no other intervention. Now that?s a Fairy Tale.
Of course liberated 20th century man has certainly produced a much more humane and loving society than the previous 19 centuries. Mmmmm.

Back to the togs and the hard work ethic, with a word from St Joan of Arc : ?Les hommes combattent, et Dieu donne la victoire?. That basically means if you don?t get up of your arse and work, God is not going to help you.

(Sorry for the religious message but the initial thread was about God, and at Christmas time I couldn?t let certain comments posted go by unimpeded).

Paul Cook
20 Posted 19/12/2007 at 09:52:12

How many fairytales have you read, David? Many of the classic fairytales and are pretty dark and violent and often include murder etc. As for the 20th century being pretty violent, that is totally correct. As would all human history with religion playing it’s own, nasty little part.

Another thing I find strange is when players thank god for helping them. So he helps some people and not others? A little biased there.

Hard work, skill and passion with help of science [nutrition and sports science] have helped Everton get to where they are now.

Ed Casey
21 Posted 19/12/2007 at 10:27:25

Richard Dawkins - I entirely agree with you but I think we should go one step further. Ban religious arguments on football forums - it does no-one any favours. Aren’t we supposed to be the school of science (not the school of creationism!)?

John Lloyd
22 Posted 19/12/2007 at 10:43:51

Does anyone remeber Tommy Mooney turning us down for Birmingham?? we we’re willing to pay 2.5 million for this pile of shite & he turned us down saying Birmingham were a club on the up & we were a club who were going down.

What a career he went on to have, fucking pile of shite.

Dave Trudgeon
23 Posted 19/12/2007 at 11:22:22

Whats funny now is, all these players who come out and say "I supported Everton as a kid, I?d love to play for them one day".
that never happened in the 90?s

Tony Horne
24 Posted 19/12/2007 at 11:49:11

I can only assume that that Marco Matterazzi fella must have sold his soul to the Devil......

Michael Brien
25 Posted 19/12/2007 at 12:14:48

Paul Cook - re reference to religion playing its part in the violent struggles of the 20th Century have you ever heard of World War 1 or World War 2 ? I don’t think there was any religious cause for either of those conflicts.
I know loads of characters from Charles Dickens - but as I have only ever read one of his novels I wouldn’t claim to be an expert. As a Christian I get fed up of people who have no interest/knowledge of the Bible who think that because they know a bit about it they are experts.I have read it and wouldn’t claim to be an expert.
As for being God’s chosen club - it’s a nice thought but it’s just that - a nice thought.Personally I believe God is on everyone’s side.
And as for our not so dear neighbours from across the Park, well " If Ya Know Ya History"..... then they will have their time in the "wilderness". Some of us can remember when Moneybags United got relegated a mere 6 years after being European Champions. Every club has their periods of success and their periods of no trophies/near misses.
Be patient - we are on the way back.Personally I prefer the DM method of team building to the Abramovich Chelsea approach.After all if he gets bored with the thing and decides to invest in another "pet project" then all those who jumped on to the bandwagon will be crying into their expensive replica shirts.
Sorry to go on about the historical thing - but one last point.It’s well remembered/documented that the great Dixie when he scored the 60 goals in the 1927-28 season was part of a team that won the Title.Yet 2 seasons later they were relegated. We have over the course of our history seemed to be our own worst enemies in that we have let some fine players move on from Goodison when it was clear to most that they would have wanted to stay.
Two examples that spring to mind straight away are Alan Ball and Peter Beardsley.There are many others - who knows how are history could have been.
But now we have a squad that is looking like it has the potential to achieve great things we must keep our best players and add to the squad and not take away - and I would include Mr Wessels in this i.e. give him another contract at the end of the season.

Paul Cook
26 Posted 19/12/2007 at 13:04:59

Sorry to continue this as I know it’s not football related but I can’t let that opinion by Michael pass without comment. WW2 did indeed have some religious element. Hitler was not an atheist. Indeed German soldiers carried some motto about god being on their side. They defined another religious group, the Jews, as below human and look what happened. The Japanese looked upon their Emperor as a god and were willing to die for him because of this. Religion makes otherwise normal people do stupid things. I put it up there with Nationalism and Racism as being one of the decisive things that humans have created.
Personally, I want to keep all of them out of football. Football can be a wonderful force for good but when it embraces any of those idealogies then it becomes the opposite. This city has experinced childish secatarianism in the past. We’ve also had some shameful racist episodes in the not too distant past. Anyway, that’s the end of my rant. Off for a beer.

Michael Brien
27 Posted 19/12/2007 at 13:25:03

Paul - the 2nd World War had very little to do with religion, more to do with power and greed.Sadly the treatment of the Jews during this period is only one of many examples of anti - semitism that there has been throughout history.
I would take issue with your suggestion that religion makes normal people do stupid things. That is a bit like saying football makes otherwise normal people do stupid things. People use hooliganism as an argument to use against football - which is a brilliant sport - in the same way that people attack religion by saying that religion causes wars.
In the same way that certain people just want to have a fight and will use football as their " cause" others want to grab land and power and will use religion as their "cause"
As I said before I believe that God is on everyone’s side.Our periods when we have been struggling have had many reasons - some of which have been due to bad management on and off the pitch. Ask any Evertonian who was around in the ealry 1970’s - Rod Belfitt and Bernie Wright possibly the two worst strikers in the history of the top division( in those days 1st Division = Premiership) and which club signed them ? We did !!
Whether you believe in God or not, believe this - WE ARE EVERTON- and we will be back and how we will laugh at the " Big 4" or so called big 4 when it’s our turn for success!!!

Paul Roberts
28 Posted 19/12/2007 at 13:42:11

Any chance we could get this ridiculous thread shut down? I’m pissed off with myself for having read this far, to be honest. And I can’t believe that certain people are daft enough to think that God, should such a thing exist, would be bothered spending his time messing around with Everton football players. Let’s get back to discussing the real issues affecting our team eh.

Neil McKinney
29 Posted 19/12/2007 at 13:57:12

Well said Paul Roberts!
What the fuck are you guys on about?

Michael Brien
30 Posted 19/12/2007 at 14:13:01

Neil - is that the only thing you have to say how about trying to add something constructive?I usually find that if people have to resort to effing and blinding then they aint got much of an argument anyway.

Michael Brien
31 Posted 19/12/2007 at 14:27:13

The points I was trying to make-
1) God is on everyone’s side - NOT just Everton’s
2) Our lack of success in past seasons can often be traced to our own bad management.
e.g. within 2/3 seasons of winning the league in 1969 - 70 and seeing the likes of Joe Royle and Alan Ball in our team we were having to make do with Bernie Wright and Rod Belfitt.Probably nice blokes but really awful footballers. We signed some truly awful players in the 1970’s as well as some good ones.Unfortunately we didn’t hang on to the good ones for long enough.

Alan Ryder
32 Posted 19/12/2007 at 14:24:23

Well said Michael B & Paul C. You,ve got me wondering who to agree with. Now I’ve got a funny feeling that our little fellah, Pienaar, has led a very chaste life. Every time he scores he drops to his knees in thanks to the lord, and we as a team haven’t looked back since he came along. If there was enough room between seats I’d be inclined to do the same myself. As it is I just dive into the nearest gap. COYB!!!!!.

Paul Cook
33 Posted 19/12/2007 at 15:02:23

I have no problem with people believing in the Christian God, Allah, Zeus, Odin the devil or some bloke dressed up as a pair of testicles. Whatever gets you through the night and all. Just keep it to yourself and don’t try to force it on other people. Especially not in the classroom, family planning and the various fields of science.

Football, to a lesser extent, also suffers from fanatics. People who believe their team or country are better than anyone elses and will use violence to defend or prove this opinion. We may all love Everton but I’m sure most of us would never want to attack somone else just because they supported another team. Football is a thing many, many of us enjoy. But it isn’t above criticism. Neither is religion.

Anyway, Michael, on your football points I agree with you. We’ve sold far too many good players when we shouldn’t have and replaced them somewhat lesser players. Lets hope Yakubu and Arteta don’t join this list.

Michael Brien
34 Posted 19/12/2007 at 15:36:23

Paul - that last point about Yakubu and Arteta - Amen to that !!! ( sorry I couldn’t resist that one !!!
If we can hang on to our good players then I honestly think this squad is good enough to win a trophy or two.If not this season, then definately nest season.When was the last time we had 5 good strikers like Yakubu,Johnson,McFadden,Anichebe and Vaughan to choose from ?

Mick Mac
35 Posted 19/12/2007 at 16:43:12

Bloody hell lads I was only speaking metaphorically.
Thats what I love about Evertonians. PASSION

patty
36 Posted 20/12/2007 at 08:50:27

Yes... there is a God .... proved without a doubt ..... Chelsea 2 - Shite 0