ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Small minded

While I have not come on here to castigate Everton or Steve P, what's with this "oh, I'm so proud of the Blues" mentality? "We were unlucky," etc. We got what we deserved... nothing. From 30 minutess onwards we sat back and invited it on and then the inevitable finally came.

I thought we had moved on from this small-minded menatality both as fans and as players of EFC. We gave them too much repect, we did not play like a confident side we played the same we have for years at Old Trafford... scared. And still people say they are proud! If that's not small I don't know what is! Let's move on from this and get back to winning ways against Bolton and start another run.
Steve Wolfe, liverpool Posted 23/12/2007 at 17:08:11

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Steven Jones
1 Posted 23/12/2007 at 17:40:54

Its also small minded to moan and tell people what to think

But what the hey

Ricardo Humphries
2 Posted 23/12/2007 at 18:04:11

Steve, The only small minded thing I’ve noticed is your comments. I dont think it a matter of respect, its just plain unlucky! Bet your tune would have been different if we came away with one point?

kry jou gat in rat boet, want jy praat kak! (the kak word means shit, figure out the rest!)

Seth DeMerit
3 Posted 23/12/2007 at 18:09:05

Over this result before the final whistle as I said in an earlier post we have a mental block when it coms to man u. anyway doesnt make any diff to league position.

WHAT I DO CARE ABOUT IS THE ABSENCE OF ARTETA!! WHATS UP?? ANYONE KNOW?? AND WAS CAHILL INJURED?

Srdjan Sekulic
4 Posted 23/12/2007 at 17:09:49

Hard to say it, but it was Moyes...... not Pienaar.

We kinda had it and we lost it. There was a guy who used all three subs and unfortunately it was not our guy. With both teams losing their strength, patience, will, game ? you name it ? we did what? Made no mistake in keeping the player who lost his game, got the yellow card and so on and so forth.

But the guy wished the best. He was not the one who should be standing there at the moment and not the one who should make a decision there. He was the guy who did his best and the one who should take a well deserved rest after an hour. But...

Anyway, are we 6th or aren't we? Saying me who said that 7th would be tops by the turn of the year. Moyes knows the job, and he proved it more than he was given credit to, so let me say now 'I forgive you'. Screw Mancs, we'll get them next time, let's go for another three on Wednesday from Notlob.

C'mon you Blues!

Danny Smith
5 Posted 23/12/2007 at 18:47:08

Piennar has played his heart out for us in recent weeks, he really has been a lot better than I expected. His skill is there for all to see. I particularly remember a great byeline touch at West Ham. |We all make mistakes and you can see how much it meant to him. Sign him and he can became a great player for us.

Connor Rohrer
6 Posted 23/12/2007 at 19:07:14

Steve, you need a reality check mate. We are not good enough to play Man utd at there own game never mind play them off the park. If we had tried to have done this then we would have been beaten by an even bigger margin.

Even when we where defending we still counter attacked well and with a little more quality in the fianl third we could have snatched it. Johnson cross for example when he out paced Vidic or Yakubu’s reluctance to shoot. My point is we played like the majority of the teams in the premiership would at Old Trafford. We defended well and hit them on the break and we where unfortunate that a small detail lost us a point but thats life.

Nothing about being small minded more like being realistic. We went there with two or three players missing and held our own.

Paul Hetherington
7 Posted 23/12/2007 at 19:26:46

There’s a good reason why we didn’t try and play ’champagne football’ at OT today. If you really don’t know what this is then maybe you could ask Martin O’Neill and Aston Villa. Or Sammy Lee.

Did you not see Man utd. ’park the bus’ at Anfield last week? or even media darlings Arsenal do the same in the FA cup final a couple of years ago... It happens and playing defensively is not only a hallmark of a ’small minded team’. (It sometimes is though, obviously) I’m sure Fabio Capello would back me up on this one.

Man Utd probably wont drop many more points this season and will win the title at a stroll. They can spend more on one player than we can on a squad. They have earned the ability to do this through their stability and trust in their (as much as I hate to say it) inspirational manager (who, in turn, rates our manager as one of the best).

I can’t believe that anyone other than a complete idiot would criticise our players for losing a game like this or our fans for viewing the positive points of the performance.

For the record, ’Man Utd away’ is the only fixture I’d ever react like this to our critics! I’d fully expect us to stuff Arsenal/Liverpool/Chelsea at the next opportunity and would be dissapointed if we don’t.

Colin Jones
8 Posted 23/12/2007 at 21:06:55

I think if we’d not defended like we did then it would have been more likely that we would have lost by possibly lots of goals. as it was we were heading for a point and pienaar gave away a penalty. Our 7-1 win against sunderland was an example of what happens when you don’t defend well against superior teams.

Allan Hobbs
9 Posted 23/12/2007 at 21:24:37

We lost by one goal away to the Champions to a penalty in the 88th minute; not a bad result as far as I see it. 10 wins, 2 draws, 1 loss - stop complaining, its not the end of the world.

Utd happen to be a bloody good side.

Up the blues.

Dick Fearon
10 Posted 23/12/2007 at 21:10:31

United had players good enough to put us under enormous pressure. Our lads did well to keep them at bay for so long.
Thinking of many earlier games against United I had a horrible feeling that a silly mistake by one of our lads would tip the balance.
Piennar joins a long list of Everton players who’s moments of madness have handed the points to United.
I have come to expect one of our players to do the same against that lot. Who’s turn will it be next time.

Richard Wilkinson
11 Posted 23/12/2007 at 21:30:12

Yes Utd are a good side, but today with more belief we could have nicked it. The substitutions should have been Hibbert off Gravesen on (Neville switched to full back) and Anichebe for the Yak.

Doing this would have given us the strength to get the point, but also more chance of nicking a winner, that was there to be had.

Steve Pendleton
12 Posted 23/12/2007 at 21:11:48

I’m with you Steve. We came out last night playing with a view to take the game up to Man U and we did. Unfortunately Moyes and the players regressed back into the mentality of defending for the draw and it cost us.

When the Yak was taken off for Gravesen we were telling our opponents that we were happy with a draw. This was the mentality that was dispelled over the last 13 games and hopefully it’s another learning curve for Moyes.

Matt Bone
13 Posted 23/12/2007 at 22:19:09

2 things that let us down today were Moyes substitutions (or lack of) and Pienaars mistake at the end. 2 things that have been pretty much absent in recent weeks. Yes, we should have gone for the win against a weakened Mun Ure team and with O? Shea playing like a pantomime horse. If we had gone for the win but lost it would have been easier to take. I am not having a pop at Moyes as his tactics have been spot on in recent weeks.

As for Pienaar, ok the guy made a mistake which cost us a point. so what. he has been playing superbly in recent weeks and is entitled to the odd mistake which sees us get punished. I bet he feels just as bad as the fans and the rest of the team. He will be a huge loss when the ACN starts.

Two home games to come which should see us get back to winning ways.

Steve Guy
14 Posted 23/12/2007 at 22:52:11

Lucky for Phil Neville (who was great today) that he didn’t give away the penalty or the conspiracy theorists would be out in force again !

Nick Harrison
15 Posted 23/12/2007 at 23:02:17

Has anyone ever seen Tim Howard save a penalty?

roy coyne
16 Posted 23/12/2007 at 23:44:22

First I admit to complaining about Moyes on occasions. But after the run we have had I cant believe people taking pot shots at him,please look at the united team and bench then look at ours while we have made great strides we can not match them yet and if we lose one game in fourteen to a late penalty that will do for me as we are getting closer to the top three proof being the moans on here a couple of seasons ago and we would have been happy with the result.

Steve Pendleton
17 Posted 23/12/2007 at 23:50:20

Not sure if we were watching the same game Steve G. Phil Neville being great today is overstating it just a little wouldn’t you say as he gave the ball over a countless amount of times and I can’t recall him creating any chances from the midfield.

But this may constitute a great game in your opinionmaybe???

terry mcloughlin
18 Posted 23/12/2007 at 23:54:38

Lucky for Phil Neville? i watched the game and i don’t remember Phile Neville passing the ball to a blue.Also we had fat boy Rooney running 30 yards to get are boys booked, but Phil was telling the ref not to book the manc shite?.I think he still thinks he is playing with his brother.

Pete Gunby
19 Posted 23/12/2007 at 23:26:07

Steve Guy, Please don’t tell me Phil Neville was great. If that was great then our other ten players should be up for World Player of the Year. Neville is a right back and no more. He has played that position well enough and from there has been able to be an effective captain.To play him in the midfield is bad for him and , bad for Everton. He turns the ball over too often and gives us no creative play at all. His shot from Yakubu’s lay off was a perfect example of Nevilles skills. There were several reasons we lost the plot today and Neville is only one of them but lets not brand subpar play as great or we may be stuck with a Hibbert, Neville right flank for years to come.

Martin Hughes
20 Posted 24/12/2007 at 00:40:07

hahaha!

I love being an Evertonian! One defeat in 14 (to the best team in the league) and suddenly we’re shite again! Brilliant stuff.

Would have had a point, silly tackle, lost game, move on, Bolton next, blah blah Moyes out! Sell Neville! etc etc

Brendan McLaughlin
21 Posted 24/12/2007 at 00:37:37

Oh FFS! A season or two ago Ferguson would have used a fixture like this to rest his "big game" players. Fact is they put out their best available & only managed a win thanks to a sloppy challenge by SP in the last few minutes of the game.

As for the "we got what we deserved .. nothing" ....well ???? I thought the team did us proud today.

Chris Brazier
22 Posted 24/12/2007 at 02:52:35

Never wrote in before but thought we matched the best team in the league today for long periods without our legend Arteta and our lad Ossie, So lets be proud after an unfortunate loss (they lost to Bolton a couple of weeks ago) and say thanks for the best time time in 20 years. Now lets get in back in and get back even louder behind the lads. COYB!

Kevin Campbell
23 Posted 24/12/2007 at 03:41:52

Has anybody noticed that I?ve never seen Arteta play Manure?

He seems to be injured or ill during our matches against Manure... Hmmm...

Martin Berry
24 Posted 24/12/2007 at 04:51:06

Lets get behind Stevie P, ok he made a silly mistake that he will long regret, but hey he will learn and its not as if it happened in a cup final. He has played his heart out for us so far and its was his superb cross for the equaliser. We move on and improve, and that we will do no doubt.Good pereformance without Mik and Ossie. Season greetings fellow blue noses...

Chris Masey
25 Posted 24/12/2007 at 09:17:10

As usual there is a select few that cannot recognise we were worthy of a point, and can take positives from the performance.

Mark Pendleton
26 Posted 24/12/2007 at 09:57:51

At least a few people on here have a sense of perspective. Nothing wrong with Moyes’ substitutions or tactics. But for one uncharacteristic moment of madness from Pienaar, who i’m sure will come back from this more determined than ever, we’d have left OT with a well earned point. Not many teams will come close to that this season.

It was good to see us at least play 2 forwards and try and get something out of the game, which we almost did.

Let’s start another good run, there’s no reason why we can’t.

Gai Roberts
27 Posted 24/12/2007 at 10:31:19

I agree with some points,and disagree with others. I thought we defended superbly throughout and was confident Man Utd wouldnt have scored but for a moment of madness, but one thing i did pick up on was our inability to keep hold of the ball when we did have it,i still think we need to be a lot more confident when we do have the ball and keep it for a bit longer,that is why we had to defend wave-after-wave of attacks.

Also agree that Phil Neville needs to be played at right back as he cannot do the job in midfield,but im not going to slag him off because he always gives 100%.

Back to winning ways on Boxing Day C.O.Y.B

Phil Hamer
28 Posted 24/12/2007 at 10:36:36

No no, calm down guys. Steve Wolfe is not saying ’we are shite’ he is saying that we are so good now that we could have got something if we had been slightly braver. I have to agree with him. Apart from Ronaldo I think Man Utd are a shadow of their former selves. If we had pushed up the field 10-20 yards we could have caused them problems yesterday. Moyes may be thinking the same thing this morning. The bottom line is, we are a very good side now thanks to Moyes and its a shame we didn’t put the mancs to the test a little more. (Also whats with this ’Stevie P’ crap !! Lets not start sounding like we’re best mates with the players like that horrible lot.)

Neil McKinney
29 Posted 24/12/2007 at 11:17:47

Some people are so naive. Mr Wolfe has rightly received plenty of criticism for the crap that he has written above. Other such bollox like "They are there for the taking" and "Apart from Ronaldo I think Man Utd are a shadow of their former selves". Give me a fucking break! Most of there players would walk into our side, and while we may now have enough to be looking for a victory at home, when we are playing them at old trafford any result should be held up as an achievement. They are the fucking champions and we lost a tight game 2-1 in their back garden. Jeez!!

I’ve seen teams show this "bravery" you talk of, take the game to Utd and get raped by 3 or 4 to nil. We very nearly got the point we desperately wanted.

"Small minded" was the perfect title for this article. Get back to Football Manager, where you win everything with your "brave" tactics. Humbug.

COYB!!

jimmy fearns
30 Posted 24/12/2007 at 12:35:10

I hear they do a lovely roast at old trafford.

Brian Waring
31 Posted 24/12/2007 at 13:04:04

Here we go again,Steve gives his opinion on the game,and he gets slaughtered for it.Everyone has the right to call the game as they see it.I thought we more than matched utd in the first half.But,for some reason we came out in the 2nd half and started to play a lot deeper,why?Surely Moyes should have pointed out that we matched them first half,and should have just told them to go out,and do more of the same.This is not having a go at Moyes (because he has been excellent lately)but did he send the players back out with the mentality to just defend for a draw?

Paul English
32 Posted 24/12/2007 at 14:03:23

The ?big 4? tactic....Despite our brilliant form recently, something always changes when we come up against the big 4. against sunderland, fulham, west ham, for example, some of the football was brilliant with neville at right back and the midfield a constant. but when we have played liverpool, chelsea and man utd this season, moyes has gone with hibbert at right back and phil neville in midfield to try and stifle their attacking threat. if it was due to arteta?s injury yesterday, then why didnt gravesen come in? does this mean that against arsenal next week, we will be forced to play to their strengths rather than our own? come on moyes, never pick that hibbert again. let?s try and beat them by playing the football we know we are capable of.

Ed Casey
33 Posted 24/12/2007 at 14:34:37

Please God no! We can’t start calling him Stevie P - thats horrible! Please stop!

sam morrison
34 Posted 24/12/2007 at 17:05:48

Agreed Ed. How about Pieboy?