The Mail Bag
Learning & Flashpoints
Comments (16)
United and now, Arsenal. I've already heard many differing versions on where the blame lies for these two defeats. Something?s though, have changed since we starting putting together quite a run (opposition or not). Anyone who sneers should just look at the change in our way through a match since what was quite a flat performance against an even flatter Liverpool side back when.
Rather than in the past putting up a spirited fight and maybe getting the odd result against United and Arsenal we actually attempted to play against these. And by god I don?t think any sane man can suggest we disgraced ourselves. I come out of these games now for once, not thinking that we?ve been shown where we belong. But more that we have come a long way and if there?s one thing that has become clear to me during the past few seasons it is that Moyes learns from moments like these, as will this young team also.
This I believe is another flashpoint for Everton and where the season goes..? Whisper it quietly but I think we could be looking back to this game at the end of the season. I?m Not Down...
Jimmy Henderson, Posted 30/12/2007 at 14:28:12
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Gaz Daniels
2 Posted 30/12/2007 at 17:50:51
2 Posted 30/12/2007 at 17:50:51
Oh but we did trouble the Arse yesterday, in fact at the end of the first half there was only one winner, us!
We had them on the ropes and like the heavyweights Arsenal are they came up with the knockout blows.
If we beat boro on new years we will be in a great position,
For the first time in many a year we are beating the teams we should beat.
When I look at the table now its to see how far away from fourth and I'm enjoying it
Must win on Tuesday
cmon blues
We had them on the ropes and like the heavyweights Arsenal are they came up with the knockout blows.
If we beat boro on new years we will be in a great position,
For the first time in many a year we are beating the teams we should beat.
When I look at the table now its to see how far away from fourth and I'm enjoying it
Must win on Tuesday
cmon blues
Mick Simo
3 Posted 30/12/2007 at 18:05:43
3 Posted 30/12/2007 at 18:05:43
Good result for us, one thing them RS are crap and if that fat waiter thinks he can win the league, he might as well fuck off back to Halo Halo Rene lookalike fat arse.
Rob Hollis
4 Posted 30/12/2007 at 18:03:24
4 Posted 30/12/2007 at 18:03:24
Jimmy
Spot on! We played all of the football, Arsenal were a disgrace. If Bolton or somebody behaved like they did they would have been left with about six players by the end.
We need to sharpen up a bit in defence and maybe be prepared to shoot more from outside of the box. But I thought we looked really good, certainly for the first half. Hibbert was six times the player I thought he was. The only downer was the weak referee allowing Arteta to be kicked every time he got the ball, and of course central defence.
Onwards and upwards! Despite the result yesterday proved to me we can play as well as the best
Spot on! We played all of the football, Arsenal were a disgrace. If Bolton or somebody behaved like they did they would have been left with about six players by the end.
We need to sharpen up a bit in defence and maybe be prepared to shoot more from outside of the box. But I thought we looked really good, certainly for the first half. Hibbert was six times the player I thought he was. The only downer was the weak referee allowing Arteta to be kicked every time he got the ball, and of course central defence.
Onwards and upwards! Despite the result yesterday proved to me we can play as well as the best
Danny Mullally
5 Posted 30/12/2007 at 18:07:07
5 Posted 30/12/2007 at 18:07:07
If it wasn’t for silly individual errors we could have got points from both games. We are competing very well with these so called big boys and the score line agaisnt arsenal was not a fair reflection of our performance. Throw the injuries into the mix and I think as a whole we are not as poor as some people make out.
Alls we need is to keep the spirit in the team and sign a couple of more quality additions and then I think that we will be taking points off everybody.
Alls we need is to keep the spirit in the team and sign a couple of more quality additions and then I think that we will be taking points off everybody.
Simon Birdsey
6 Posted 30/12/2007 at 18:02:13
6 Posted 30/12/2007 at 18:02:13
People think I’m a Moyes knocker, but I’m actually a fan. He’s done a fantastic job on a shoe string budget, bringing in players like Lescott, Jagielka, Yobo, Arteta, Yakubu and Johnson, who are still to reach their peak and bringing through players from the academy such as Hibbert, Osman, Vaughan and Anichebe. The future is very bright when you see Kissock, Jutciewich (!), Rodwell, Boyle and Vidarsson coming through the ranks.
My criticism of Moyes though is that his sides only know how to play one way, which is narrow and congested, hoping to nick a goal and defend for our lives. That is a generalism, I know, but with only one striker on most occasions and succesful pass stats that demonstrate that we treat the ball like a hot potatoe, we are very easy to read. When was the last time that we recieved a text with the starting lineup and were surprised with omissions or inclusions?
Arsenal demonstrated to us yesterday that they can play the beautiful game, but that they can also stay in first gear and beat teams with direct football if they so choose. I think that we’d seriously be knocking on the door of the top four if we could mix our play up some more and have different weapons in our armoury to break teams down with.
My criticism of Moyes though is that his sides only know how to play one way, which is narrow and congested, hoping to nick a goal and defend for our lives. That is a generalism, I know, but with only one striker on most occasions and succesful pass stats that demonstrate that we treat the ball like a hot potatoe, we are very easy to read. When was the last time that we recieved a text with the starting lineup and were surprised with omissions or inclusions?
Arsenal demonstrated to us yesterday that they can play the beautiful game, but that they can also stay in first gear and beat teams with direct football if they so choose. I think that we’d seriously be knocking on the door of the top four if we could mix our play up some more and have different weapons in our armoury to break teams down with.
Ray Nickson
7 Posted 30/12/2007 at 18:24:15
7 Posted 30/12/2007 at 18:24:15
Agree we are not quite ’there’ yet but definitely moving in the right direction. We have been getting away with defencive lapses against the likes of Bham, Fulham etc. but have been well punished by RS ManU and Arsenal.
Regarding Arteta , whilst I think he’s our best player in many years, I was actually embarrassed by some of his antics. The referee was on to him from the off.The only doubt surrounding his red card was when it would be shown. Agree Fabregas milked it but a case of the biter bit?
Regarding Arteta , whilst I think he’s our best player in many years, I was actually embarrassed by some of his antics. The referee was on to him from the off.The only doubt surrounding his red card was when it would be shown. Agree Fabregas milked it but a case of the biter bit?
Ray Robinson
8 Posted 30/12/2007 at 18:44:31
8 Posted 30/12/2007 at 18:44:31
I’m not down after yesterday. To me the only difference between the sides were the individual mistakes. Yesterday’s match aside the distinguishing factor is that Arsenal have greater fluidity. We have players who are actually very good at their role but are a bit one-dimensional - Hibbert, Carsley, Neville whereas Arsenal are a team of players comfortable on the ball who pass and move constantly.
Having said that most Arsenal goals came from long punts!
Having said that most Arsenal goals came from long punts!
Harj Badial
9 Posted 30/12/2007 at 19:19:03
9 Posted 30/12/2007 at 19:19:03
Were not far away - we just need 2 quality midfielders - one of which should be Fernandes. I know we keep going on about him- it's because he is special.... we won last year against Arsenal - and he was instrumental.
For me Jags had a poor game....but I won?t slag him off just yet. In a way that defeat was a blessing in disguise.... I felt before the game we were getting carried away with how good we are, but in actual fact were still behind Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd. Maybe we can now keep the focus and get the basics right. COYB
For me Jags had a poor game....but I won?t slag him off just yet. In a way that defeat was a blessing in disguise.... I felt before the game we were getting carried away with how good we are, but in actual fact were still behind Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd. Maybe we can now keep the focus and get the basics right. COYB
Simon Birdsey
10 Posted 30/12/2007 at 20:12:08
10 Posted 30/12/2007 at 20:12:08
Picture the Chelsea set up under Mourinho:
Cech
Ferriera Carvalho Terry Bridge
Makelele Essien
Lampard
Wright-Phillips/Cole Duff/Robben
Drogba
Now look at this potential line-up:
Howard
Hibbert Yobo Jagielka Lescott
Carsley Neville
Arteta
Vaughan/Johnson Anichebe/McFadden
Yakubu
I’m not advocating that we adopt this system for every game, more so when we need to rest certain players like Cahill, Osman or Pienaar. It does give us an option and a different way of playing though and it makes better use of our current squad, which is top heavy with talented strikers and short on creative midfielders, than our current 4-4-1-1 formation.
I think that even the England side would benefit from trying the system out:
Robinson
Richards Terry Ferdinand A. Cole
Hargreaves Barry
Gerrard
Rooney Owen
Crouch
It’s an efficient rather than an adventurous system, but it’s hard to break down, it has a focal point, it gives freedom to your withdrawn strikers (or wingers if you prefer to replace them with the likes of Lennon and J.Cole) and it allows your attacking midfielder to dictate play and drift into the box undetected. It would suit England because of our inability to find a striking partnership or an effective role for Stevie G.
Cech
Ferriera Carvalho Terry Bridge
Makelele Essien
Lampard
Wright-Phillips/Cole Duff/Robben
Drogba
Now look at this potential line-up:
Howard
Hibbert Yobo Jagielka Lescott
Carsley Neville
Arteta
Vaughan/Johnson Anichebe/McFadden
Yakubu
I’m not advocating that we adopt this system for every game, more so when we need to rest certain players like Cahill, Osman or Pienaar. It does give us an option and a different way of playing though and it makes better use of our current squad, which is top heavy with talented strikers and short on creative midfielders, than our current 4-4-1-1 formation.
I think that even the England side would benefit from trying the system out:
Robinson
Richards Terry Ferdinand A. Cole
Hargreaves Barry
Gerrard
Rooney Owen
Crouch
It’s an efficient rather than an adventurous system, but it’s hard to break down, it has a focal point, it gives freedom to your withdrawn strikers (or wingers if you prefer to replace them with the likes of Lennon and J.Cole) and it allows your attacking midfielder to dictate play and drift into the box undetected. It would suit England because of our inability to find a striking partnership or an effective role for Stevie G.
Joe McParland
11 Posted 30/12/2007 at 21:27:44
11 Posted 30/12/2007 at 21:27:44
The thing that really beat us against Arsenal was nous. We got panicky individually in the second half and paid the price. When Arsenal went 2-1 up they shut up shop. When Arsenal went down to 10 men they brought on more experience. When Arteta tusseled with Fabregas his arm came out first then Artetas. Arteta didnt go down Cesc did, holding his face and got Arteta sent off. Then Arsenal took Fabregas off tosave him being sent off. If we learn from the things Arsenal done we will be in a position with this team to moe forward and challenge for all the top honours.
Martin Cutler
12 Posted 30/12/2007 at 20:12:09
12 Posted 30/12/2007 at 20:12:09
Having calmed down from yesterday I don't think the game was as bad as I first thought. The first half was excellent and we were winning. The second half was silly mistakes on our part and luck on Arsenal's part........ they won, we learn (and Moyes is doing that), we move on.
Just like the defeat at Manyoo, the result didn't hurt us too bad in the Prem... Portsmouth lost, both Man City and The Red Shite dropped points... we're still 6th. Despite the feelings over yesterday's game... FANTASTIC season so far.
And I'd rather have our players than Spanish wankers like Fabregas and French whiners like Flamini... both talented but temperamental as hell! (Note that's meant to be insulting, not racist!)
I don't think there's any doubt that if Moyes can buy the right players in Jan that we can at least finish in the top six. The mind boggles regarding the League Cup, Uefa Cup (and The FA Cup).
Nick Flack
13 Posted 31/12/2007 at 09:41:16
13 Posted 31/12/2007 at 09:41:16
Oh but we did trouble the Arse yesterday, in fact at the end of the first half there was only one winner, us!
Gaz, I’m struggling to think of any time we put their goal under pressure apart from Mikky’s excellent set peices.
Gaz, I’m struggling to think of any time we put their goal under pressure apart from Mikky’s excellent set peices.
John Welsby
14 Posted 31/12/2007 at 10:30:58
14 Posted 31/12/2007 at 10:30:58
If ever there was a game of 2 halves - this was it.
We dominated with skill, passion and energy in the 1st half. But we came out with the wrong attitude in the 2nd. Right at the beginning we were misplacing passes and it was as if we thought we were better than we are. To beat teams in the top 4 we have to stay in their faces for the full 90 mins. We have to have at least 8 players on top of their game and we also need a break (i.e. a piece of luck e.g., own goal v the Shite, goal against Arsenal was ?lucky? rather than ?worked? although I accept the great goal we scored v Manure)
It?s simply not enough to roll out in the 2nd half with the wrong attitude expecting to win. We have to concentrate for the full 90 mins and their 1st and 3rd goals showed that we didn?t.
At least we?re making significant progress though and that?s important
We dominated with skill, passion and energy in the 1st half. But we came out with the wrong attitude in the 2nd. Right at the beginning we were misplacing passes and it was as if we thought we were better than we are. To beat teams in the top 4 we have to stay in their faces for the full 90 mins. We have to have at least 8 players on top of their game and we also need a break (i.e. a piece of luck e.g., own goal v the Shite, goal against Arsenal was ?lucky? rather than ?worked? although I accept the great goal we scored v Manure)
It?s simply not enough to roll out in the 2nd half with the wrong attitude expecting to win. We have to concentrate for the full 90 mins and their 1st and 3rd goals showed that we didn?t.
At least we?re making significant progress though and that?s important
Matt Geraghty
15 Posted 31/12/2007 at 11:58:14
15 Posted 31/12/2007 at 11:58:14
Jimmy, I just love the line: ’’And by god I don?t think any sane man can suggest we disgraced ourselves.’’ - Top drawer.
Peter Toney
16 Posted 31/12/2007 at 16:15:47
16 Posted 31/12/2007 at 16:15:47
I agree with what everyone seems to be saying about the game. 1st half fantastic 2nd half just big mistakes that cost us.
Lets just hope we can beat boro on new years day.
By the way did any one see the incidents with Flamini that Arteta speaks about in the paper?
He apparently put his elbow in three times on the lead up to Mikel getting sent off. Twice to Cars and once to cahill
Lets just hope we can beat boro on new years day.
By the way did any one see the incidents with Flamini that Arteta speaks about in the paper?
He apparently put his elbow in three times on the lead up to Mikel getting sent off. Twice to Cars and once to cahill
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1 Posted 30/12/2007 at 17:36:20
Yes we matched them this season, but we’ve not done enough to take the points yet. It will come. For all our good play yesterday, we didn’t ever really trouble the Arse did we, nor did we at manure.
Not far off, but not quite there.
I was hugely impressed at how Lescott played yesterday. Not sure if it was Moyes showing absolute faith in his players to allow him that far up the pitch that often, or just plain naivity, but hats off sir.
Bring on Boro.