ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Walter Smith and his neglect of young players

After watching the City v Liverpool game and the performance of Richard Dunne who was an absolute colossus and Michael Ball who was very assured I am of the thought that under Walter Smith we lost two of our most talented youngsters of that time.

I know they were much younger and immature then and got into some troubles but Smith seemed happy to neglect them and players like McCann and purchased expensive flops like Materazzi. During this period we also had Cadamarteri and Branch and dare I say Jeffers, possibly the best crop of younger players we have had for some time.

I know we had serious money problems then but I can't help thinking if Moyes would have been around then the likes of Dunne and Ball would still be here.
James Elworthy, Liverpool Posted 01/01/2008 at 16:12:34

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Michael Kenrick

Gotta agree with that 100%. I admit I was thinking the same wathcing those two...

Andy Morden
1 Posted 01/01/2008 at 17:01:26

Yes, Smith always mistrusted youth and from what I see at the moment he still does. I believe that he was an opponent to the ruling in Scottish football that there has to be 3 Scots national under 23 players in the squad (it could be more players or even under 21 players - I’m worse for wear and too lazy to check my facts!). His policy of buying old knackers was hideous too, Gascoine, Ginola etc. The only one who worked was Gough! I feel dirty now, the memory of the Wally Smith era does that to me!

Neil Pearse
2 Posted 01/01/2008 at 17:08:56

The more you look back on it, the more Smith was a really stupid choice as Everton manager. He was, is, and always will be a buyer rather than a developer of players. All his Rangers success was based on buying heaps of players, some of whom work out, many of whom don’t.

At a time when Everton were no longer the Mersey Millionaires, appointing Smith was idiotic. As soon as the (borrowed) money for the likes of Collins, Dacourt and Materazzi dried up, he was utterly sunk. Unfortunately he proceeded to embarrass us for a few more seasons with the likes of Gascoigne and Ginola. Whilst losing us such fine potential talents as Dunne, Ball and Jeffers.

Moyes has done and will do a lot better, because he is a manager of a wholly different class, building rather than buying teams. I still get upset about this, when I should just let it go. Johnson was a fake and Smith was rubbish. That’s it!

James Smith
3 Posted 01/01/2008 at 17:19:04

Let’s face it, Jeffers and Ball were sold for big money, and haven’t set the world alight since for various reasons (injury, attitude). Dunne by all accounts had a horrible attitude and was constantly out on the piss. It’s only as he’s matured at City that he has knocked this on the head.

As for Branch and Cadamarteri, they were simply never good enough.

Neil Pearse
4 Posted 01/01/2008 at 17:21:49

James, you are right about what has happened to many of these players post-Smith (and I agree that Branch and Cadamarteri just never had the talent). But the question is whether under Moyes the threesome of Jeffers, Ball and Dunne could have ’matured’ faster and fulfilled their potential with us. We’ll never know, but based on what he’s done with other players, I think there is a good chance that Moyes’ disciplined approach to introducing youngsters could have worked.

James Elworthy
5 Posted 01/01/2008 at 17:33:37

Jeffers possibly wouldn't have made it because of the nasty little sod he is.
Cadamarteri had bags of talent and the world at his feet after the derby win.He went off the rails.
I cant see Anichebe or Vaughan going in that direction with Moyes in charge.

Brendan McLaughlin
6 Posted 01/01/2008 at 20:17:01

"Cometh the hour Cometh the man" Smith did a job for us & I for one won’t dog him for it. He laid a foudation that Moyes has very successfully built upon.

Jimmy Crack
7 Posted 01/01/2008 at 20:46:05

Plus, unless I’m mistaken, it was Smith who recommended Moyes to Kenwright

Drew Peacock
8 Posted 01/01/2008 at 20:59:59

The same could be said in a few years about Rooney!!

Barry Stevens
9 Posted 01/01/2008 at 21:18:12

How did Smith lay the foundations?!? He left us with one-dimensional players, most way past there sell-by date. This is a bloke who used to play 6 centre-backs in the starting 11, and Steve Watson upfront!!!

Mark Pendleton
10 Posted 01/01/2008 at 23:19:47

I think it’s important to mention that Dunne was on the brink of the sack at City before he sorted himself out. As for Bally we screwed him over by treating his knee injury poorly. Had it not been for that then i think he would have been far better for us than Dunne. Oh well, the past is just that and i’m glad we no longer need to look at that whilst we have the likes of Yak, Aj, Lescott, Arteta, Yobo, Jagz, Baines, Howard and Cahill etc.

Ray Roche
11 Posted 02/01/2008 at 00:23:19

Mark Pendleton
I think you?re just about right, Dunne was a bit of a bad boy, apparently, and I seem to remember him and Hutchinson and Jeffers getting into a bit of trouble that made the front pages of the red tops. Ball wrote a good article in The Times when he went to City saying that he was, according to Steadman(?) the knee specialist, "one game away from the end of his career" because his knee was in such a bad state. We?d been giving him pain-killing and cortisone injections for far too long to get him on the pitch. His knee required reconstructing and even though he?s a Blue at heart, he wasn?t impressed by the shabby way he was treated at Everton where his knee was concerned.

Dick Fearon
12 Posted 02/01/2008 at 00:41:35

I also lament the departure of Dunne and Ball yet I do not fault Walter Smith.
We had other up and coming youngsters and a disciplinary line needed to be drawn.
Now they have matured Richard and Michael might reflect that they left Walter with little alternative and possibly would have done the same had they been in his shoes.
Not even the brightest of stars is bigger than the club.

dave trudgeon
13 Posted 02/01/2008 at 09:28:27

my mate chris shuker played for city when dunne joined
he told me a storys about dunne coming in training late all the time and being pissed.
kevin keegan once sacked him in the middle of training, he got that mad with him, but obviously he calmed down, realised he can’t do that and dunne sorted his life out
dunne was an actual alcoholic when he was at everton and for the first few seasons at city
he’s admitted that himself in interviews
we got 3.5mil for dunne, it was a good deal for an overweight alky kid
nobody would have gussed dunne would turn out as good as he’s gone
and as for ball, theres another one with a shit attitude, and to be honest i’d rather have baines over him any day

Alan Rodgers
14 Posted 02/01/2008 at 09:47:57

We can at least thank Wally for Lee Carsley. As for Jeffers, Moyes brought him back on loan and couldn’t turn his career around.

Laurence Hart
15 Posted 02/01/2008 at 09:47:05

I wont name the ’gentleman’ who bad mouthed Ball, but it was out of order. I saw him play against Coventry in THAT game, towards the end of the game he got a knock and the trainer wanted to sub’ him, he really didn’t want to go off, and Howard (Kendall)seeing what was happening told him to stay on the pitch.
I believe Howard got it right, Ball would have died for Everton that day (if it would keep them up). The club screwed him by playing him with his knee problem and I for one hopes he goes on and has a great end to his career - he was class.
Regarding Smith he was fair to OK nowhere near as good as Moyes, but we needed stabalising at that time, and he also got rid of ’Agent Johnson’ so he got something right!
COYB

Dave Trudgeon
16 Posted 02/01/2008 at 10:40:11

I thought Rangers screwed him over by playing him in the reserves for 2 years because they didn?t want to pay the 1mil extra for playing him in 50 league games?

Ed Fitzgerald
17 Posted 02/01/2008 at 11:51:26

Fact is it was Smiths job to manage young players look after them and nuture them. Smith was a poor manager for us, we were negative beyond belief and he made some truly appalling buys. Michael Ball would have solved the full back problem we have had for years (a good player poorly treated by the club). Richard Dunne was a bit of a lad so what, manage him, dont kick him out. Fucking Hell Brenda have you been on a bender, Smith laying the foundations, buying Ginola, Gasgoine and other aged players on big contracts.
This has restricted Moyes not helped him. We have just won at Boro with a weakened side do you remember some of the gutless performances we put in there during his reign and at all other away grounds. I remember those fantastic 0-0s at home with glee as well.

Drew Peacock
18 Posted 02/01/2008 at 12:18:49

Yea, but am a bit droopy.

Alan Williams
19 Posted 02/01/2008 at 12:35:06

Why have a go at Walter Smith? He had to put up with the boards lack of money. He was building a good side but had to sell all of them because the bank was due to put us in adminstration. Dunne was on his last warning at City before they cancelled his contract and to his credit he got his head down and is doing well, but for EFC he was Very overweight and crap! WS after EFC has done very well!! I ask the question, how many other Ex managers post war have had success since leaving EFC???? that tells you what a good Manager he is, just took over EFC at the wrong time. Players develop at different times so it can be guess work if you have no money to spend and another offers on the table. Lets see if the current crop of young players hang around I think unless they get regular games the both with move on (Vic & Vau).

Dan Johnson
20 Posted 03/01/2008 at 10:55:05

I think the blame should lie with Archie Knox. He was very very strict man, he very much prefered the stick to the carrot. He was known for being a bit of a bruiser and didnt suffer fools gladly. He especially didnt take to young players, especially cocky arrogant ones like Ball, Jeffers and Dunne.

He would often use them as scapegoats following a bad result claiming they didnt care enough etc.

Peter Fearon
21 Posted 03/01/2008 at 21:23:51

We have got to knock this revisionist crap about Walter Smith on its head. He was without question and unreservedly not one of the worst but the worst manager of Everton. He alienated young players, sold good players, signed horrible players who had no business in an Everton shirt. His record was abominable. It was a period of utterly wasted time. When a manager tells you the problem is not your team losing but the fact that you as a fan expect them to win - as he did - that’s not a good manager. Some people say even after he left Ibrox he cared more Rangers than Everton. Let me tell you. He cared more about Celtic than Everton.