The Mail Bag
How far is Kirkby?
Comments (62)
As I live in Oz, I don't actually know where Kirkby is. How far from Liverpool-based would fans have to travel to get to a game there, and does anyone think that the extra travel time would affect attendance figures?
On another note, geez that Pienaar is a good player. Hope we sign him permanently. Not sold on Jagielka at centre back yet, not against the big guns anyway. We are lucky down here we get the Viewer's Choice option and can select any EPL game we want every week. Haven't missed an Everton league game this season.
Dennis Karanik, Posted 03/01/2008 at 01:12:45
Comments
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Lyndon Lloyd
The proposed location for the Kirkby stadium is 5.4m from Goodison by car. See Map
Dave Wilson
1 Posted 03/01/2008 at 06:31:13
1 Posted 03/01/2008 at 06:31:13
Forget Kirkby Dennis mate, We’re not going
Olham next chaps, can we really chase top four AND three cups ?
Olham next chaps, can we really chase top four AND three cups ?
Rob Jones
2 Posted 03/01/2008 at 06:47:36
2 Posted 03/01/2008 at 06:47:36
WTF! How are we not going Dave? Do you really think Knowsley council will turn down a complex that will see tens of thousands of fans travelling to Kirkby every other week? its a potential goldmine! And as for the distance my dad lives more than 5.4 miles away and I still go up there every week. 5.4 miles is nothing so what's all the fuss about?
Arthur Jones
3 Posted 03/01/2008 at 07:24:24
3 Posted 03/01/2008 at 07:24:24
The distance is not really the problem Dennis, it?s the fact that Kirkby is not within the city of Liverpool boundaries, even though the population of kirkby is largely "scouse". I personally voted against the move but I cannot see it being scuppered now, too much to lose for those that make the decisions.
John Clarke
4 Posted 03/01/2008 at 08:47:27
4 Posted 03/01/2008 at 08:47:27
Denis,
It’s not quite as bad in distance terms as moving South Melbourne to Sydney ( Swans ), or Fitzroy to Brisbane ( Lions ) but in terms of shear emotion, it is.
I live in Brisbane now, but I was born in Liverpool and have supported the Blues all my life, I really don’t like the idea, I don’t trust a supermarket and a bunch of city shareholders.
It’s not quite as bad in distance terms as moving South Melbourne to Sydney ( Swans ), or Fitzroy to Brisbane ( Lions ) but in terms of shear emotion, it is.
I live in Brisbane now, but I was born in Liverpool and have supported the Blues all my life, I really don’t like the idea, I don’t trust a supermarket and a bunch of city shareholders.
Erik Dols
5 Posted 03/01/2008 at 09:17:16
5 Posted 03/01/2008 at 09:17:16
Apart from the real distance, I think the club can generate more money in or close to the city centre than in some suburb. A modern stadium can make money 365 days a year as opposed to the 19 (+cup/european days) days a year an old fashioned stadium does.
A location close to the city centre will always attract more clients than a location away from the city centre.
At least that’s how I feel about it. I’m afraid we’re getting a stadium that earns us little to none extra revenue outside match days.
A location close to the city centre will always attract more clients than a location away from the city centre.
At least that’s how I feel about it. I’m afraid we’re getting a stadium that earns us little to none extra revenue outside match days.
Jay Campbell
6 Posted 03/01/2008 at 09:20:45
6 Posted 03/01/2008 at 09:20:45
They might as well put this stadium in Birmingham or St Ives Dennis coz where they are putting it is miles away from town anyway.
They are just taking the name Everton and re-locating this brand name to a totally alien place that has had no affiliation with the club since it was formed. A masterstroke from Kenwright and Wyness mate!!!!
They are just taking the name Everton and re-locating this brand name to a totally alien place that has had no affiliation with the club since it was formed. A masterstroke from Kenwright and Wyness mate!!!!
Harj Badial
7 Posted 03/01/2008 at 09:41:55
7 Posted 03/01/2008 at 09:41:55
It's only 4 miles - and we need to move - we possible have the worst stadium in prem.....I know peeps dont like change but its the way forward. Kirkby used to be within the boundry, its just because they have changed the boundry people are moaning. I cannot believe people will not go to matches just because its another 3/4 miles for them to travel. Get real - this has to happen and most probably will.
Tony Kelly
8 Posted 03/01/2008 at 09:36:54
8 Posted 03/01/2008 at 09:36:54
Kirkby is 7 miles from the Birkenhead Tunnel entrance. It is one straight road out to the proposed cowshed through the biggest bottleneck in the City that is Walton Vale. There is only road into Kirkby and on matchdays it will take about 4 hours to get there from the city centre. So I suggest they build a few B and Bs in Kirkby. Strangle this nonsense at birth ? Keep Everton in our City!
Gerard Madden
9 Posted 03/01/2008 at 10:18:09
9 Posted 03/01/2008 at 10:18:09
It literally just hundreds of yards from the Liverpool boundary and just 4 miles from Goodison.
Its residents are as scouse as anywhere within the city - many of them are decended from the district of Everton itself, which is why most Evertonians arn’t bothered by the move hence the positive result of the clubs ballot and the pitiful couple o’ dozen who protested against the move just after that ballot.
Its residents are as scouse as anywhere within the city - many of them are decended from the district of Everton itself, which is why most Evertonians arn’t bothered by the move hence the positive result of the clubs ballot and the pitiful couple o’ dozen who protested against the move just after that ballot.
Tim Keen
10 Posted 03/01/2008 at 10:24:54
10 Posted 03/01/2008 at 10:24:54
5.4 miles from Goodison, about 8 from the city centre.
Going from the heart of a community it has represented for over one hundred years to being on the edge of a retail park with no parking for fans.
Will it affect attendances - yep - I won’t set foot in it so that is one less already.
Going from the heart of a community it has represented for over one hundred years to being on the edge of a retail park with no parking for fans.
Will it affect attendances - yep - I won’t set foot in it so that is one less already.
Barry Lightfoot
11 Posted 03/01/2008 at 10:33:22
11 Posted 03/01/2008 at 10:33:22
The council a few years back said no to moving Walton Hall Road into the park as it was greenbelt to give more space to re-develop Goodison a bit further over, I was wondering has this been looked into since The Shoite where given the park on the other side. Surely the least the council could do is move the road then we could use the cash earmarked for Kirkby to start a phased redevelopment. The new Park End could be built while the old one is still in use.
Apologies if it’s al been discussed before.
Apologies if it’s al been discussed before.
Dave Porter
12 Posted 03/01/2008 at 10:32:38
12 Posted 03/01/2008 at 10:32:38
Gerard
You really are self-delusional, parotting the official line.
It doesn’t matter whether it’s Kirkby, Speke, Cronton or Stafford....we will be moving further away from the City Centre and all its benefits and potential. I challenge you to walk down Goodison Road with a placard saying ’I voted YES’ and see if you get more than a ’pitiful’ couple o’ dozen kicks up the arse. Just do it and see who’s right...or do you, deep down, know what the reaction would be from ’ordinary’ Blues?
You really are self-delusional, parotting the official line.
It doesn’t matter whether it’s Kirkby, Speke, Cronton or Stafford....we will be moving further away from the City Centre and all its benefits and potential. I challenge you to walk down Goodison Road with a placard saying ’I voted YES’ and see if you get more than a ’pitiful’ couple o’ dozen kicks up the arse. Just do it and see who’s right...or do you, deep down, know what the reaction would be from ’ordinary’ Blues?
Jay Campbell
13 Posted 03/01/2008 at 10:32:58
13 Posted 03/01/2008 at 10:32:58
MADDEN: most people never protested coz Kenwright and Wyness don?t fuckin listen anyway so what?s the point??? They were told at the AGM as well and have they listened?? Have they Fuck!!! We are not the pitiful ones ? we are the ones who actually care about the club and it?s future. Unlike Kenwright and Wyness who are in it to get their pockets lined.
Blake Dutton
14 Posted 03/01/2008 at 11:14:02
14 Posted 03/01/2008 at 11:14:02
In terms of physical distance Kirkby is not too far.
However, it will be a nightmare to get to from the City - but good for those travelling further distances on the Motorway.
Unless you are doing so by car, as there will be no parking nearby.
But at least we will benefit from the excellent locality & atmosphere generated...
However, it will be a nightmare to get to from the City - but good for those travelling further distances on the Motorway.
Unless you are doing so by car, as there will be no parking nearby.
But at least we will benefit from the excellent locality & atmosphere generated...
Dean Johnson
15 Posted 03/01/2008 at 11:42:29
15 Posted 03/01/2008 at 11:42:29
Dave Porter, please take your head out of your arse, you give blues a bad name.
We are simply following the NFL model, have a check to see how many NFL teams play in their own STATE let alone city.
Basically one team says "we want to build a new stadium in the city" the council says "no" so the team has to find somewhere else that WILL let them build the stadium.
EFC didn’t want to move out of the city so they chose somewhere as close as they possibly could - right on the edge of the city, STILL with a Liverpool postcode. No city sites were big enough for the proposal (we need that proposal with tesco otherwise the site won’t make any money) so we chose Kirkby.
Is that too simplified?
We are simply following the NFL model, have a check to see how many NFL teams play in their own STATE let alone city.
Basically one team says "we want to build a new stadium in the city" the council says "no" so the team has to find somewhere else that WILL let them build the stadium.
EFC didn’t want to move out of the city so they chose somewhere as close as they possibly could - right on the edge of the city, STILL with a Liverpool postcode. No city sites were big enough for the proposal (we need that proposal with tesco otherwise the site won’t make any money) so we chose Kirkby.
Is that too simplified?
Gerard Madden
16 Posted 03/01/2008 at 11:48:03
16 Posted 03/01/2008 at 11:48:03
Dave Porter & Jay Campbell - don’t get yer knickers in a twist lol.
Dave - If I and all the other yes voters took placards to Goodison displaying that we voted ’yes’ I feel there would be a little bit of a logjam at the turnstiles lol.
Jay - Most people never protested because 72% either 1) Voted for the move or don’t care where we play and 2) Most people including most ’no’ voters accepted the result of the democratic ERS ballot.
Dave - If I and all the other yes voters took placards to Goodison displaying that we voted ’yes’ I feel there would be a little bit of a logjam at the turnstiles lol.
Jay - Most people never protested because 72% either 1) Voted for the move or don’t care where we play and 2) Most people including most ’no’ voters accepted the result of the democratic ERS ballot.
Will Mitchell
17 Posted 03/01/2008 at 11:50:57
17 Posted 03/01/2008 at 11:50:57
Harj - worst ground in the Premiership?
Goodison was recently acclaimed in both the Observer and the Torygraph as one of the best grounds in the league. Have you been to Bolton, Boro or Derby mate?
Goodison was recently acclaimed in both the Observer and the Torygraph as one of the best grounds in the league. Have you been to Bolton, Boro or Derby mate?
Phil Bellis
18 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:04:26
18 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:04:26
So Mr Johnson, you’d have no objection if EFC were to be moved to Cumbria or even east Anglia? I wish I were as sure of anything as you appear to be about everything. Your supercilious attitude is typical of certain No supporters on this forum and how dare you say supporters like me, with genuine concerns for the motives for and viability of this move, give blues a bad name! Typical crass, insensitive, know-all comment. And WTF has the NFL got to do with a historic, inner-city English football club?
Jay Campbell
19 Posted 03/01/2008 at 11:58:45
19 Posted 03/01/2008 at 11:58:45
Gerrard just over 15000 of your clubs massive fanbase is not enough to prompt a move out of the city, I don?t care what anybody says. What about the 8000+ fans who go the match that never got a vote?? Suppose coz they can?t afford season tickets their opinion counts for fuck all doesn?t it. The whole vote was flawed from Day 1 and the Board knew exactly what they were doing the horrible twats.
Gavin Ramejkis
20 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:03:11
20 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:03:11
Why isn’t this in the stadium debate section where it belongs?
Kirkby is a suburb with a smaller population than the intended attendence at the new stadium, it does not have the infrastructure to support that volume of traffic - why would it with such a smaller populous? If Kirkby was such a great destination for a football club why isn’t any other club there - especially given the nonsense NFL suggestion - answer because its a small town that wouldnt support one.
The existing stadium may be old but it isnt the worst in the country, Ibrox which hosts Champions League every season and has virtually identical services; crap toilets and food and drink counters, yet they wouldn’t consider moving to a town from their city of origin and best financial location. By the way thanks to a certain Keith Wyness while he was in Scotland fucked their Sky deal so they get £1m a year so rely on Champions League to survive financially. Wonder what he will fuck for Everton for the sake of his own pockets?
Kirkby is a suburb with a smaller population than the intended attendence at the new stadium, it does not have the infrastructure to support that volume of traffic - why would it with such a smaller populous? If Kirkby was such a great destination for a football club why isn’t any other club there - especially given the nonsense NFL suggestion - answer because its a small town that wouldnt support one.
The existing stadium may be old but it isnt the worst in the country, Ibrox which hosts Champions League every season and has virtually identical services; crap toilets and food and drink counters, yet they wouldn’t consider moving to a town from their city of origin and best financial location. By the way thanks to a certain Keith Wyness while he was in Scotland fucked their Sky deal so they get £1m a year so rely on Champions League to survive financially. Wonder what he will fuck for Everton for the sake of his own pockets?
Tommy Jones
21 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:18:04
21 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:18:04
Denis the Menace from OZ see what you have started another almighty argument well good luck lads with another bitchy debate. I voted against the move and I stand by it, but to say I will never watch the blues if they move, well Everton are a big part of my life and I will watch them were ever we will be.
Dave Porter
22 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:18:10
22 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:18:10
Well said, Phil, Jay etc. Amongst blues I mix with, the anti-move is very much the dominant opinion.
I’m beginning to wonder if part of the split in this fiasco is age-related. A case of what you’ve never known, you’ll never miss?
I’m beginning to wonder if part of the split in this fiasco is age-related. A case of what you’ve never known, you’ll never miss?
Gavin Ramejkis
23 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:19:18
23 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:19:18
Dean just to pick up on "city sites not big enough" - KW said we need a 75k stadium to try to belittle the Loop then applies for a 50k stadium when HOK have said a 55k stadium is deliverable on the Loop, well there is one sight straight away that negates that argument.
Joe McMahon
24 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:31:27
24 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:31:27
FFS sake everyone. Which ever way you look at it football has moved on, no longer 3pm Sats kick off , the Beckham effect film star culture amongst players, no Honesty, Spurs/Liverpool with endless foreign managers- we have to move and we can make money.
Ones things for sure though there will always be gloryhunting Liverpool fans, they travel from Devon, Dorset, Surrey, Suffolk, London and kent to Anfield so why can’t we just travel to Kirby?
Ones things for sure though there will always be gloryhunting Liverpool fans, they travel from Devon, Dorset, Surrey, Suffolk, London and kent to Anfield so why can’t we just travel to Kirby?
Dean Johnson
25 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:56:19
25 Posted 03/01/2008 at 12:56:19
Phil Bellis - if your only intelligence lies in trying to put words in peoples mouths (someone’s been on thesaurus.com) then I guess there is no hope for you. LCC didn’t want to help Everton, so we go to someone who will - too hard/easy for you to understand?
Gavin R - The whole point of us moving stadium is for us to make money, nothing else. The sites have to be big enough to house multiple retail developments, a stadium and a tesco store. Have you worked it out yet? or are you sticking to the "official" line.
You can either believe exactly what KW says or not. I personally trust him to do what is best for the club. He will always give spin to any NIMBY’s who are afraid of change.
We have to compete, there is no doubt, to do that means money. Money which has to be generated in a way that is in the best interests of "OUR" club.
But hey, it’s not OUR city is it really? you don’t own it, you aren’t in the best position to judge. You have to trust the people in power.
Gavin R - The whole point of us moving stadium is for us to make money, nothing else. The sites have to be big enough to house multiple retail developments, a stadium and a tesco store. Have you worked it out yet? or are you sticking to the "official" line.
You can either believe exactly what KW says or not. I personally trust him to do what is best for the club. He will always give spin to any NIMBY’s who are afraid of change.
We have to compete, there is no doubt, to do that means money. Money which has to be generated in a way that is in the best interests of "OUR" club.
But hey, it’s not OUR city is it really? you don’t own it, you aren’t in the best position to judge. You have to trust the people in power.
Harj Badial
26 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:06:43
26 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:06:43
Will when I said Goodison is the worst - I meant in terms of appeal to investors and its not very pleasing on the eye....I love Goodison but we need to move on. Also part of the development plan is to build new carriageways to and from Kirkby to improve Traffic flow etc.....look at the bigger picture -people go on about being away from the City centre...but I see this as the NEW & Better Centre - where people will visit...new football stadium, Tesco?s, Bar?s, Clubbs, Shopping Centre etc... I for one will look forward to this. COYB
Brian Waring
27 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:12:01
27 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:12:01
Dean Johnson, you say "EFC didn?t want to move out of the city, so they CHOSE somewhere as close as they possibly could".
Dean, It was Tesco who chose the location, because they wanted their superstore there. And offered us as the sweetener to the council. If we never went along, Tesco would have probalby been knocked back. At the end of the day, Tesco are the puppet masters here, and us the puppet. Also, I can?t believe how some people think it is bang on that we are going to move there. It is a cinch the government will call this proposal in,and if that happens, it will go on forever.
For me, it is not Kirkby the town that is the problem (I?m originally from Huyton,and have always classed it as Liverpool, even though it is under Knowsley.) It is just the location.
David Collins
28 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:37:38
28 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:37:38
We are not going, end of chat. Those who think that we are going are deluded souls who have swallowed Billy Barrymores bile hook line and sinker.
Will Mitchell
29 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:36:54
29 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:36:54
Harj ? I disagree 100% with everything you say.
But the vote was democratic and the move looks probable.
My big worry now is whether Tesco / Barr can deliver the standard of stadium required? I think probably not?
But the vote was democratic and the move looks probable.
My big worry now is whether Tesco / Barr can deliver the standard of stadium required? I think probably not?
Gavin Ramejkis
30 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:39:21
30 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:39:21
Dean - can you please tell Tesco and all other the other retail outlets in the Kirkby proposal that according to your reckoning they have to give Everton part of their income - you have spoken nothing but utter shite, try to put your brain in gear son, how will a less attractive retail park stadium in a small town generate income? The new stadium if anything will laden "OUR CLUB" with massive debt and we won’t even own it. "Official line" is the never ending changing goalposts from KW and BK regurgitate, trust who you want, I have distrust of KW from his track record befoer he came to Everton and every day since and BK is the ultimate bullshitter who hasn’t had the cojones to get involved in the most significant potential change to "his beloved Everton" he hid in London playing panto queen for a two bit karaoke style acting show.
Alan Willo
31 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:24:28
31 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:24:28
Great! As a season ticket holder all my life and lived by GP most of it I cant wait to move to Kirkby!! Its time to move on, Walton Park would be ideal but LCC have let the people of the City down by chosing Shite first. EFC have not left the City, the City has left EFC!!!!! I drink on County Road on a regular basis but walking through Dog shi-te every home game doesnt and isnt worth fighting for. We need to stop blaming the custodians of the club and blame the Council who sat on their hands and let us be approached by Knowsley. KEIOC are becoming nasty, to me that’s because they have no substance. To this day have we ever been given another option including funding from LCC or local business on par with Tesco.....answer No!!!! So EFC have to decide whats the best offer on the table and its lear Kirkby is by a mile. All no’s quoting distance from CC, why ? most EFC fans dont live in the City centre! Kirkby is in North L’pool home of EFC.
Gerard Madden
32 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:57:47
32 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:57:47
Agree wholeheartedly Alan - listening to some you would think we had always played in the city centre when we NEVER have done - we’ve never actually played in Everton!
Kirkby is just 4 miles from Goodison and is a strong scouse heartland - that’s why most fans are for the move as evidenced by the ERS ballot and the paltry couple o’ dozen who turned out for the protest.
Kirkby is just 4 miles from Goodison and is a strong scouse heartland - that’s why most fans are for the move as evidenced by the ERS ballot and the paltry couple o’ dozen who turned out for the protest.
Paul Gladwell
33 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:51:42
33 Posted 03/01/2008 at 13:51:42
Gerard, if you are not a club plant at least be fair and honest with your arguements and stop coming out with utter wind-up shite like the so-called tiny minority that is the N vote brigade.
I voted No and my honest opinion is a close call although really if I was counting on friends, forums, blues I meet and the County Road pups I visit then it would not be, as my view from what I see is of more against the move. However, I do realise there are blues out there who are not local and don't do the whole County Road matchday experience and so presume this is where the core of the Yes voters come from.
I am not for one minute stating everyone down County Road is a no voter, far from it, but it would be interesting if a poll was done out and about these areas on a matchday.
I voted No and my honest opinion is a close call although really if I was counting on friends, forums, blues I meet and the County Road pups I visit then it would not be, as my view from what I see is of more against the move. However, I do realise there are blues out there who are not local and don't do the whole County Road matchday experience and so presume this is where the core of the Yes voters come from.
I am not for one minute stating everyone down County Road is a no voter, far from it, but it would be interesting if a poll was done out and about these areas on a matchday.
Jay Campbell
34 Posted 03/01/2008 at 14:08:26
34 Posted 03/01/2008 at 14:08:26
Alan Willo, the stadium issue should have been addressed 15 years ago at least, and no prizes for guessing who has been sitting on the board all that time.
It was time to move on years ago but the Custodians of our club stood still and never moved with the time?s and that is how this fuckin boneheaded idea of Kirkby has arisen. It?s our board?s imcompetence over the last 2 decades that has caused this mess ? not dog shite on the County Road.
It was time to move on years ago but the Custodians of our club stood still and never moved with the time?s and that is how this fuckin boneheaded idea of Kirkby has arisen. It?s our board?s imcompetence over the last 2 decades that has caused this mess ? not dog shite on the County Road.
Tom Campbell
35 Posted 03/01/2008 at 14:41:18
35 Posted 03/01/2008 at 14:41:18
If the move does go ahead, Will the stadium get the full 50k capacity every week????
Steve Wolfe
36 Posted 03/01/2008 at 14:35:26
36 Posted 03/01/2008 at 14:35:26
How is it that people can be so trustworthy of the custodians of EFC ie, KW and BK?? Please could they tell me from which evidence do you base this opinion on? As I can quite easily give you facts and figures on why we shouldn't trust these two. Please enlighten mel
Gerard Madden
37 Posted 03/01/2008 at 14:46:33
37 Posted 03/01/2008 at 14:46:33
Paul Gladwell - I do not accept your ridiculous ’stop coming out with utter wind up shite like the so called tiny minority that is the no vote brigade’ comment.
How is it a wind up stating the facts? I could easily whine ’n whinge about people winding me up - ’no’s continually posting with a distinct air of ’we’re the real majority’ and ’why don’t the club listen to the fans’ - the point is I don’t get wound up by it because they arn’t facts.
How is it a wind up stating the facts? I could easily whine ’n whinge about people winding me up - ’no’s continually posting with a distinct air of ’we’re the real majority’ and ’why don’t the club listen to the fans’ - the point is I don’t get wound up by it because they arn’t facts.
Peter Fearon
38 Posted 03/01/2008 at 14:52:02
38 Posted 03/01/2008 at 14:52:02
The Kirkby stadium site is 10 miles from Lime Street, according to Mapquest and 100 light years from Goodison Park. As for it being a few hundred yards from the Liverpool boundary, so what? Strasbourg’s a few hundred yards from Germany. It doesn’t mean they can play in the Bundesliga. You’re either a Liverpool club or you’re part of the rest of the planet. We’re going to part of the rest of the planet and all the arguments for and against the stadium won’t change one simple fact. Liverpool will be the only Liverpool club in the Premiership. Everton will be the only Kirkby club in the Premiership. If a majority of fans want that, so be it.
Peter Fearon
39 Posted 03/01/2008 at 15:12:21
39 Posted 03/01/2008 at 15:12:21
And by the way, I took some stick for a remark I made about certain Everton fans dancing in the ruins of Goodison Park. I was told nobody will be dancing. Well, I can see from his posts that Gerard Madden will be one of them - alongside thousands of happy kopites. Have a great time as the walls of Goodison fall, guys.
Paul Gladwell
40 Posted 03/01/2008 at 15:05:16
40 Posted 03/01/2008 at 15:05:16
How are you stating facts Gerard ?
Yes nearly 5,000 more voted for a Yes, 10,000 voted No, is that a tiny minority ? Not to mention the missing 10,000 and the underclass lepers not allowed to vote.
I am staunch No voter, the logic of moving further away from the fastest growing city in Europe is enough for me without even talking about the history side of things. But one thing, Gerard; I can listen and try to understand other people's opinions on this site and not be totally ignorant to everything that is different to my views.
Yes nearly 5,000 more voted for a Yes, 10,000 voted No, is that a tiny minority ? Not to mention the missing 10,000 and the underclass lepers not allowed to vote.
I am staunch No voter, the logic of moving further away from the fastest growing city in Europe is enough for me without even talking about the history side of things. But one thing, Gerard; I can listen and try to understand other people's opinions on this site and not be totally ignorant to everything that is different to my views.
Dean Johnson
41 Posted 03/01/2008 at 15:57:11
41 Posted 03/01/2008 at 15:57:11
England - the most insular country in the world
Liverpool - the most insular city in the world as many of these comments show
glad I don’t live there any more
Liverpool - the most insular city in the world as many of these comments show
glad I don’t live there any more
Lee McCarthy
42 Posted 03/01/2008 at 16:33:17
42 Posted 03/01/2008 at 16:33:17
Dean Johnson(Ringo Starr) I’m glad you don’t live here anymore. Sound’s like your another 1 who’s forgatton his root’s.
Jimmy Fallan
43 Posted 03/01/2008 at 16:21:22
43 Posted 03/01/2008 at 16:21:22
Man City the only club in Manchester ?
The red shite threatened to go to Kirkby , the council shit themselves and gave them Stanley park.
We threaten to go to Kirkby and they give us the fuckin loop.
Backhanders?
The red shite threatened to go to Kirkby , the council shit themselves and gave them Stanley park.
We threaten to go to Kirkby and they give us the fuckin loop.
Backhanders?
Ed Fitzgerald
44 Posted 03/01/2008 at 16:52:34
44 Posted 03/01/2008 at 16:52:34
The government may still call in the plans if there is enough public disquiet over the project. Knowsley will of course approve it as they have been partners in the project all along. I think it goes to the Hazel Blears office if there are major concerns. I respect those who voted yes but it is wrong to expect those of us who voted ’no’ not to raise futher objections. The majority is not exactly stunning considering how eligibility to vote was decided upon. Please can some tell Madden to go away, he is annoying in the extreme and his posts add nothing to the debate.
Tony Kelly
45 Posted 03/01/2008 at 17:38:31
45 Posted 03/01/2008 at 17:38:31
This Madden chap surely is a plant.the evidence is in his surname. Keep the People's Club were it belongs in the City of Liverpool
Ed Fitzgerald
46 Posted 03/01/2008 at 17:44:23
46 Posted 03/01/2008 at 17:44:23
Dean
Like you I no longer live in the City of my Birth. But for your jibe of insularity I would substitute the word pride. I am proud to come from Liverpool and wherever I travel that is where people I assume I am from anyway. Of course location matters it is what gives a club its sense of belonging and identity.
Commentators such as Boris Johnson, the Sun and others are keen to portray the people of Liverpool as over sentimental and insular without you joining in. I would suggest that scousers are simply quite vocal when they consider they are being done an injustice such as their football club being relocated.
Like you I no longer live in the City of my Birth. But for your jibe of insularity I would substitute the word pride. I am proud to come from Liverpool and wherever I travel that is where people I assume I am from anyway. Of course location matters it is what gives a club its sense of belonging and identity.
Commentators such as Boris Johnson, the Sun and others are keen to portray the people of Liverpool as over sentimental and insular without you joining in. I would suggest that scousers are simply quite vocal when they consider they are being done an injustice such as their football club being relocated.
Karl Masters
47 Posted 03/01/2008 at 18:07:43
47 Posted 03/01/2008 at 18:07:43
Sadly, the Club have fucked this whole thing right up.
1/ Sat on their hands and lost Kings Dock
2/ Sat on their hands and let LFC have Stanley Park
3/ Sat on their hands and let Liverpool Council get away with not
co-operating in expanding Goodison
4/ Organised a vote that didn?t include enough of the fanbase
5/ Misinformed and lied to us about the cost (rapidly going up now), its benefits (corporate sell out - in your dreams!), and how easy it will be to access (park-&-ride hell) to get their last desperate plan thru that vote, but have been found out by most of us who now resent the move and are highly suspicious of it.
6/ Let a Supermarket designer draw up plans for the blandest imaginable design - it really is fucking shit!!
7/ Divided the fan base in the process.
And all this when Davey and the Boys are producing it big time on the pitch. Kenwright ? you?ve failed us; and Wyness ? you?re just an opportunist.
1/ Sat on their hands and lost Kings Dock
2/ Sat on their hands and let LFC have Stanley Park
3/ Sat on their hands and let Liverpool Council get away with not
co-operating in expanding Goodison
4/ Organised a vote that didn?t include enough of the fanbase
5/ Misinformed and lied to us about the cost (rapidly going up now), its benefits (corporate sell out - in your dreams!), and how easy it will be to access (park-&-ride hell) to get their last desperate plan thru that vote, but have been found out by most of us who now resent the move and are highly suspicious of it.
6/ Let a Supermarket designer draw up plans for the blandest imaginable design - it really is fucking shit!!
7/ Divided the fan base in the process.
And all this when Davey and the Boys are producing it big time on the pitch. Kenwright ? you?ve failed us; and Wyness ? you?re just an opportunist.
Steve Wolfe
48 Posted 03/01/2008 at 18:42:38
48 Posted 03/01/2008 at 18:42:38
Absoloutely spot on Karl Masters, my sentiments exactly!!! Ditto Ed Fizgerald.
Gavin Ramejkis
49 Posted 03/01/2008 at 19:54:56
49 Posted 03/01/2008 at 19:54:56
Karl Masters you have summed this whole stinking mess up perfectly well done agree with every word.
Phil Bellis
50 Posted 03/01/2008 at 21:20:45
50 Posted 03/01/2008 at 21:20:45
Sorry Dean if my use of English confuses you; my background’s to blame - Liverpool 8, working-class grammar school . I get ’The page cannot be displayed’ for that website you suggested. Is there another word I could use instead of thesaurus?
Brian Donnelly
51 Posted 03/01/2008 at 21:47:44
51 Posted 03/01/2008 at 21:47:44
The location of Kirkby in relation to the centre of Liverpool is the main problem. With Kirkby effectively being in the middle of nowhere, most supporters will want to go by car to the match. This will result in the following options when the game is finished:
- 2 mile walk
- Wait for buses (possibly hours).
- Stay in stadium or Tescos etc until queue dies down.
To most supporters, none of these options are satisfactory, especially for night games. The result will be that the stadium will not get the required numbers to generate the revenue expected and will end up being one big white elephant.
- 2 mile walk
- Wait for buses (possibly hours).
- Stay in stadium or Tescos etc until queue dies down.
To most supporters, none of these options are satisfactory, especially for night games. The result will be that the stadium will not get the required numbers to generate the revenue expected and will end up being one big white elephant.
Paul Columb
52 Posted 03/01/2008 at 20:41:25
52 Posted 03/01/2008 at 20:41:25
As predicted; first we see the lower level/megastore dissapear along with the elevated walkways.....now it's 50,000 capacity (despite Kenwright and his dissing the loop as it can't take 75k). Avoid the front rows 'cause at this rate, the roof won't be covering you. Keep up the good work on the pitch lads. Here's to giving Oldham a good hiding. COYB
Alan Willo
53 Posted 04/01/2008 at 07:56:42
53 Posted 04/01/2008 at 07:56:42
All this crap from No voters!!! slaggig of the board yet from my post above and many more over the months what have you offered EFC backed by the great LCC? zero, zero, zero! You all have a go about cost increases, traffic problems yet you all back the loop!!! Tell me how can a stadium that is locked by duel carrriage way and tunnel be better than a green field site, cost.... The loop with no major sponsor such as tesco cant be done due to the price. Correctly you mention Kings Dock and other failures of EFc and I agree lost opportunities but basic facts we have no MONEY!!! BK has never hidden that fact yet you treat him like a dog when he puts up his savings/assest in to buying EFC and takes NO WAGE!! KW is just a CEO employeed by the club a spokesman not an owner. Your attitude to the club and the move detracts from the basic point you have no sold counter offer the same as EFC had no money to back KD. Im fed up of saying to BK and KEIOC put the Tesco project in Walton Park!!! it will unite EFC fans overnight, the only people stopping such a development is LCC the backers of KEIOC. No voters are being led by political idiots when you should be talking to EFC board and Tesco to back WP or other sites than can offer Tesco income. Without a major sponsor we cant do anything!
Patty Beesley
54 Posted 04/01/2008 at 10:14:24
54 Posted 04/01/2008 at 10:14:24
Ed Fitzgerald ... Just remember one thing... there are two types of people in the world - Scousers and those who would like to be!! I am immensley proud to be a Scouser as I am sure you are!
Brian Donnelly
55 Posted 04/01/2008 at 11:04:47
55 Posted 04/01/2008 at 11:04:47
Alan Willo, how typical it is that you say ?you all back the loop!!?.
Well for your information the no voters don?t all back the loop (also for other peoples enlightment, if Kirkby was part of Liverpool it would still too far out).
It is upto Everton to release actual figures on the Kirkby project, particularly on finance, transport etc. Upto now we have nothing but vague statements like ?deal of the century? and not much else.
The alternative is that we stay at Goodison and examine other proposals (properly). If none are feasible then we don?t move. It only makes sense to move if you can substantially increase the revenue that will be generated. If the supporters cannot get away from Kirkby in a reasonable time, then they won?t go and the advantages of moving disappear.
As for walking through dog-shite, have Kirkby got no dogs then?
Well for your information the no voters don?t all back the loop (also for other peoples enlightment, if Kirkby was part of Liverpool it would still too far out).
It is upto Everton to release actual figures on the Kirkby project, particularly on finance, transport etc. Upto now we have nothing but vague statements like ?deal of the century? and not much else.
The alternative is that we stay at Goodison and examine other proposals (properly). If none are feasible then we don?t move. It only makes sense to move if you can substantially increase the revenue that will be generated. If the supporters cannot get away from Kirkby in a reasonable time, then they won?t go and the advantages of moving disappear.
As for walking through dog-shite, have Kirkby got no dogs then?
Will Mitchell
56 Posted 04/01/2008 at 11:18:53
56 Posted 04/01/2008 at 11:18:53
You?re absolutely right Brian.
The financial arguments for Kirkby are spurious: we are expected to believe average attendances will rise even though we are relocating away from our core fan base to a place with poor infrastructure and transport links. And secondly we are told to expect alchemy in the form of corporate hospitality even though we?re moving further away from the locus of economic growth in the region ? Liverpool City Centre.
The financial arguments for Kirkby are spurious: we are expected to believe average attendances will rise even though we are relocating away from our core fan base to a place with poor infrastructure and transport links. And secondly we are told to expect alchemy in the form of corporate hospitality even though we?re moving further away from the locus of economic growth in the region ? Liverpool City Centre.
Alan Willo
57 Posted 04/01/2008 at 13:33:21
57 Posted 04/01/2008 at 13:33:21
Brian/Will, Why do EFC have to tell you to the penny to keep you interested. We as a Clud have hit a crossroads and we have to decide what to do and whats on offer, That day arrived and they asked the fans, and the vote was yes. Sadly some fans didnt get votes but it would be impossibe to vet all who say they follow EFC. Building cost do go up, but that?s not EFC problem we only provide for the inner part of the Stadium so increase will not be too bad. No matter what we decide to do cost will rise on all projects so that argument does not stand. Transport, if EFC was to bulid a new Stadium would they build one in the middle of City Road/Goodison Rd i guess not. Again the arguement against is weak, all maybe?s no solid plan B with a practical option than can be delivered with finance. Stop being pessimists and try being practical, we have no money and no major sponsor other than TESCO who are one of the country?s leading companies backed by an lifelong Evertonian! What more do you want??? Put the Tesco project in Walton Park, the answer is right in front of us but nobody seems to push it so Kirkby it is. COYB
Gavin Ramejkis
58 Posted 04/01/2008 at 14:10:18
58 Posted 04/01/2008 at 14:10:18
Alan Willo the club will have to pay for Kirkby thats irrefutable fact, that money will have to be loaned from banks again fact as none of the custodians have that much wealth. Immediately given both of those facts the loop or any other costing money would have to be analysed furter to determine their costs to develop. The loop site would also have existing traffic routes which would not need developing beyond the actually site itself (bridges, etc), parking exists already as does access to public transport with the site being within spitting distance of the city centre.
I reiterate that Tesco WILL NOT PROVIDE EVERTON ANY MONEY - they are giving Knowsley Borough Council the land and supplying their builder, Barr would NOT BE FREE. As far as Tesco going in Walton Park how about Tesco building a new store as part of Project Jennifer yet not one mention of building a stadium as part of that - answer is the Knowlsey development requires a leisure sweetener to gain planning permission, the onus being on Tesco benefitting Tesco not Everton.
I reiterate that Tesco WILL NOT PROVIDE EVERTON ANY MONEY - they are giving Knowsley Borough Council the land and supplying their builder, Barr would NOT BE FREE. As far as Tesco going in Walton Park how about Tesco building a new store as part of Project Jennifer yet not one mention of building a stadium as part of that - answer is the Knowlsey development requires a leisure sweetener to gain planning permission, the onus being on Tesco benefitting Tesco not Everton.
Rob Jones
59 Posted 04/01/2008 at 17:36:22
59 Posted 04/01/2008 at 17:36:22
I?ve got an idea why dont we just call this site www.saynotomakingmoney.co.uk since all the no voters seem to come here whereas most of the yes people have given up trying to persuade these people that we need money to make success
Alan Willo
60 Posted 04/01/2008 at 17:47:21
60 Posted 04/01/2008 at 17:47:21
So what Tesco make money, we gain the stadium at a reduced cost, Fact. How can buses and cars stop on 4 lane carriage way? Parking in the NCP in town, what about all the shoppers especially at Xmas time. What council makes you park in an area that they are trying to reduce cars in??? project jennifer cant have a large retail arm that would detract business away from the new shopping complex. Just think about it, the loop is a joke of a plan B. Your hang up is with Tesco buy the sounds of if! Still no major sponsor just what if or maybe. If we had a billionaire backer we could build a stadium in the middle of the Mersey! Deal in facts not maybe’s it a lot easier.
Brian Donnelly
61 Posted 04/01/2008 at 18:56:08
61 Posted 04/01/2008 at 18:56:08
Alan, as for wanting to know the costings to the penny, it would be nice to know to the nearest £10m.
Leaving finance aside, the transport is what will effect us match goers the most. How will 50,000 people be dispersed after a night match? There has been no mention of this since the start, or more importantly since the 2-mile parking restriction around the ground on match days, was ?suggested? in a council document. This is not something that will go away ?it needs an answer, otherwise how can they hope to get the 45-48,000 average, which they are no doubt relying.
It would be nice if you actually dealt with facts, as you seem to have ignored Gavin?s point about the costs going up. Furthermore, Gavin rightly says that any other development would have to be analysed further. This is true and should also be true for the Kirkby project where we know that Tesco will benefit, but will EFC benefit by moving there?
I am not convinced that they will, but I know I won?t renew my season ticket if we do move there and I would be fascinated to know where all these new match going supporters will appear from. Not to worry though, because ?it?s the deal of the century?, so everything is okay and Terry Leahy is an Evertonian - like he got to the top at Tescos by letting his football allegiances influence his business decisions - yeah right!
Leaving finance aside, the transport is what will effect us match goers the most. How will 50,000 people be dispersed after a night match? There has been no mention of this since the start, or more importantly since the 2-mile parking restriction around the ground on match days, was ?suggested? in a council document. This is not something that will go away ?it needs an answer, otherwise how can they hope to get the 45-48,000 average, which they are no doubt relying.
It would be nice if you actually dealt with facts, as you seem to have ignored Gavin?s point about the costs going up. Furthermore, Gavin rightly says that any other development would have to be analysed further. This is true and should also be true for the Kirkby project where we know that Tesco will benefit, but will EFC benefit by moving there?
I am not convinced that they will, but I know I won?t renew my season ticket if we do move there and I would be fascinated to know where all these new match going supporters will appear from. Not to worry though, because ?it?s the deal of the century?, so everything is okay and Terry Leahy is an Evertonian - like he got to the top at Tescos by letting his football allegiances influence his business decisions - yeah right!
Alan Willo
62 Posted 05/01/2008 at 13:59:05
62 Posted 05/01/2008 at 13:59:05
Brian, you will no longer go when we move!! What an idiot you are, do me a favour stop going now and let real efc fans follow the team. Being a fan means you follow the team and if 3.5 miles is enough for you to not go anymore then piss off! I voted yes, but would go anywhere including the loop as EFC is more important as a club than the location. People like you give the No voters a bad name. Go at watch the RS they will be in the City, again your anti view is only critical of Kirkby again no other option. Be positive about the club and the team its far more rewarding. COYB even in Kirkby!
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