Yes!

YES. I’m going to chant his name tomorrow or take a big banner with ’I want Manny’ on it.

I have that love hate feeling with him.... but i want him back

I swear to whichever God you want me to that I will personally pay for Fernandes’ flight to Merseyside to take the medical and SIGN the contract this time. Hell, I’ll provide the pen for the contract as well. Please let this be true.

And get him in before the Carling Cup semi final with Chelsea. Yakubu and Johnson leading the attack with Cahill, Pienaar (hopefully) Fernandes, Carsley in the midfield!!!! We’re going to Wembley if that happens.

OH YES!!! you cant turn down class like him. just what we need to kick on the 2nd half of our season.

I agree with Tom Campbell

There is something that I don’t quite like about him (APART FROM THE OBVIOUS BEFORE YOU START!) but i still believe he is a very good player and as such, I would most certainly have him back.

Looks like it is all lies though so I am going to stop thinking about right now..................................................................You never know though.

I want him back but i dont think the board does. Look at the OS, there is an article saying Moyes doesn’t know anything about him moving back. When that is the case it is usually case closed and door shut. I also wonder how he would fit back into the squad after dudding us earlier whether it was his fault or his managers.

I’m surprised how little I care about what happened before, if he signed I’d be over the moon. Considering how gutted I was last time though, no point getting excited.

Ugghhhh. I’ll be the one eating crow here, but yeah. Yeah, as long as there’re some signs of contrition and a real explanation as to what the problem was in August.

He has a lot to add, and I’d welcome him back.

And this from a guy who wrote "let him rot" a few weeks ago :-o But I’d be cool with it if everyone else is.

All footballers are greedy gets. Of course we should take him if we can because he is far better than most of what we have.

Why hasn’t he cut it at Valencia?

David Barks, if you pay for his flight, I will pick him up at John L airport and get my ma to whip up some scouse for him.... he can stay in my mums spare room as well!

I?m not too convinced by our Davey?s denial so fingers crossed. COYB

There is a report saying that Moyes had sounded out the lads about him returning and had given the green light to proceed.
However as with all these stories and Everton believe it when it happens and then and only then.

Micky, he hasnt cut it at Valencia cos his heart was always at Goodison..... it was all the thrid party owners fault he went there!! Honestly! Well, if thats the story it would do me ha

If he does indeed return, it shows he’s got some major league stones, as Tony Soprano might say!

But Lue and you folks, how do you reckon the home crowd will deal with him? It’s all well and good us on a message board going over it, but will he get barracked at GP?

Of course I’d take him back but I’m still not convinced the rumors are true. When I see him in an Everton top then I’ll believe.

People saying let him rot are just being ridiculous. So you do not want a player who will improve our squad? Of course people do as we want to see Everton progressing on the pitch. Fernandes proved last season that he could come hear and make an impact. I still believe him and James Vaughan got us into Europe in that last 6 months. He’s a quality player and I want to see quality at Everton Football Club.

What people have to realize is if we don’t sign anyone our season will crumble and we’ll end up finishing mid table. We need a player to freshen the squad up and give us more options and hopefully if Manny joins he can do this.

Tell you what Charlie S, that would be the perfect thing for him to say if he signs to get the fans on his side......but it seems they?re already on his side!

Cheers Charlie, to make da deal sweater I?ll get my ma to hand out a dish of scouse to all at the next match at GP. Although thinking bout it I might opt for a good, old, cold Goodison pie! ha

Stig, How where Alan Stubbs and Thomas Gravesen treated when they came back? They are treated with respect as every everton player is. Tommy still has a rapport with the fans despite leaving unexpectedly for Real whereas Stubbs is well liked and well respected despite leaving us after finishing 4th. Stubbs also bad mouthed the cub whereas Manny has never done that.

He’d get a good reception.

Ermmmm, this red wine is not settling very well, possibly because I?m drinking it after a few stellas! However, my point being is I have now read Davey?s comments on the official club website and it seems he knows nothing about this deal.

However is it possible that the powers that be at Goodison are trying to get others off the scent..... ok I will carry on drinking the wine!

Ay, if all else fails I?m happy with the midfield if our Tiny is fit and when Artetta is back.

According to Spanish tv a couple of hours ago, ’he’s leaving on loan to Everton’. Not ’he could be leaving’ but definitive ’he’s leaving....’

If i find myself this uncontrollaby glued to rumour on only the 4th of January god only knows what the 31st will be like.

Yes. He was a twat doing what he did but he’s just what we need to make the next step up. The harsh reality is we need players like him and so have to seize the opportunity when it comes along. I mean, lets face it, when we needed Stubbs back all his bad mouthing of the club re contract/medical was soon forgotten and everyone kissed and made up. My only caveat to bringing Fernandes back would be that I’d prefer a permanent signing rather than buggering about with another loan or at the very least an option to buy with a downgraded transfer value to reflect the fact he has warmed a bench for the last six months!

I really can’t blame Fernandes for going if he did indeed have much of a say. Sure the way in which he left was a tad classless, but he joined a champions league club in a country with a culture more similar to his own (of course more money was prob involved somewhere).

Just looked on the Marca website: http://www.marca.com/

I don’t speak spanish, but there’s a massive picture of Fernandes getting off a plane, with ’Everton’ in the text accompanying the headline.

Here’s a very poor translation:

Miguel Ángel Ruiz, the sports director of the Valency, works " with speed " to find an exit to Manuel Fernandes, who was arrested after leading a dispute in a discotheque at high hours of the dawn. The Portuguese midfielder will go away transferred to the Everton.

Google speaks pigeon Spanish, however:

Asked about the agreement for the transfer of the player Everton, Ruiz said he preferred to be "prudent" and said it will announce the agreement when it is completely closed. "The things we announced when made. In this case we are going to do things quickly, but I would not venture to say anything yet," said sports director of Valencia.

IMO, Moyes is keeping tight-lipped because of what happened last time.

I’d be over the moon if Manny signed, despite what happened last summer. He’s absolute class and just what we need.

I was a little disappointed to read about Moyes’ denial of the reported developments, but, thinking about it, after the debacle in August do you think he’d say anything that would even hint at Everton being after Fernandes? Thought not.

Just get the deal (permanent!!) sorted!! COYB

It’s a little niaive to believe that he had a great deal to do with his move or ever has. Footballers are pieces of meat to be traded by clubs and agents, even more so when they have this sinister third party ownership thrown in. In what way would his integrity get him anything but never being able to play the game he loves and earns a living at with his registration documenys being held by two parties; a club and his agency? Even if he did spit out his dummy he wouldn’t be able to play or earn a living.

If a player can offer the club something beneficial whilst they arewearing the kit then so be it, bring them in and lets get some of it.

If we do sign him he can play in the UEFA cup for us aswell!!

Not sure if he played for Valencia in Europe, but you are allowed to register 3 new players for the next round and 1 of those can have already played for another team in Europe.

I was as pissed off as most people when he turned his back on us and went to Spain, but the lad is class and the sort of player we need in midfield.

The Marca article roughly translated states that Fernandes has ’one foot out of the door of Valencia’ but the Director refuses to confirm or deny that the player is on his way to Everton

Not sure of the reliability of this but....

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/169198.html

And also...

http://www.antena3.es/a3noticias/servlet/Noticias?destino=../a3n/noticia/noticia.jsp&sidicom=si&id=13519003

Needs translating but says agent confirms move.... made up if this is true..

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=535536

Apologies if I?m annoying anyone.. thought I?d let people know?!

Quote from Valencia director on marca.com

Asked about the agreement for the transfer of the player Everton, Ruiz said he preferred to be "prudent" and said it will announce the agreement when it is completely closed.
"The things we announced when made. In this case we are going to do things quickly, but I would not venture to say anything yet," said sports director of Valencia.

Apologies everyone, I have read the thread and realise I have duplicated other peoples messages!

But still... would be great to have him back...

David are you excited by the possibility of Fernandes rejoining by any chance!?

I think it only shows how far we have progressed when young world class players want to play for Everton (in the modern day game) instead of Valenica and other clubs.

Thats if he signs tho. If not there's plenty more fish in the sea.....I hope

Just look at Mascherano at the RS, Juve and Man City are talikng directly to Kia Jaroobichian (or whatever his name is ), not to the player.
I get the impression that when part owned by third parties these players are treated like pieces of meat and have to go where their owners send them for the biggest buck.
Now's the time to offer Valencia what we were prepared to offer Benfica and get him fully owned and permanent, then we get a rested fresh class addition to the squad, who will be grateful to be here!

I am indeed Charlie! haha

i think he is, as you say, world class and could take us to another level with his energy, passing range and box to box style of play... I hope with all my blue heart Moyesey is working on this as we speak...

I am amazed with have no competition for his signature tho?.......... Can people confirm he is now ?fully owned? by valencia?... I know it is the general consensus he is but is anyone 100% sure?

I think it would be great to have him back as we are desperately short of someone in the middle of the park capable of holding onto the ball and passing to feet.

I’m of the firm opinion that if Fernandes did anything dishonourable in his transfer turnaround to valencia then Moyes wouldn’t have him back. So I think if he does arrive we can conclude the situation was completely out of his hands.

As far as the ownership goes, I’m not sure, but I believe that there is still a 3rd party issue. I was under the impression that valencia did not purchase the player outright.

Nope. Now he’s a bad boy we’re sure to be gazumped by Chubby Sam anyway.

"NO NO NO NO NO"

Well maybe.

"YES YES YES YES YES "

Don?t tell anyone though.

I?ve heard last time he was at EFC, he was a pain in the arse. Always late for training and thinks he?s a bit of a big time charlie. When he weren't gettn his game for valencia, I think it was a couple of weeks ago, he just fucked training off and didn?t turn up for the day, he?s a bit of a beaut like that.

Mick they?re all the same just look at Rooney but Moyes could become the modern Brian Clough and manage him effectively.

It is rumoured that DM asked the team what they thought before progressing the move. So (I hope) it was tongue in cheek to deny all knowledge. He will be just what we need at the right time.
COYB

Having just read that Manny claims his incarceration and court appearance amid accusations of theft and resisting arrest was everyone’s fault bar his own.
Can I assume that the pigs are cleared for take off.

If we do sign him and the whole rotten mess comes down around our ears, a la VDM I will be the first to say Told Ya!.

I see it this way. Pienaar made an error, we still love him.

Same with Fernandes, if its true he’s coming back, he’s most welcome! :)

A big fat YES

It looks like he’s not gonna be short of a lift from the airport.
I’d take him back tomorrow - he’s class, and you can’t have enough of it.
COYB’s

NO - he’s a twat

What about Johann Vogel? What’s the news with him? He’s been patient enough...

He must be on his way if his agent as come out and said everything has been more or less agreed!!
Look at the difference he made when he came to Everton last year without Cahill!!
Now we have Cahill back with Pienaar too.It can only better the midfield & the squad plus he knows Everton.We still need to sign a general possible Albeda but i think it will be Vogel.

Yeah its as simple as that, no problem

i’d be happy as larry! I can’t remember seeing him play with arteta AND cahill, can anyone else?
my only problem would be that it means we would never play 2 up front which could see one or two of our strikers eventually getting sick of waiting for a chance and leaving!

Stig, a belated response re ’crowd reaction’. I honestly believe that whilst there are people who will remain convinced that Manny is a coniving so and so, the majority will see his potential return as a good thing for the team and our prospects.
Despite what I’ve read this morning I will wait until he’s on the pitch with a Blue shirt on before I get any more excited.
And all that stuff about staying here or ther e- hands off he’s mine - if anyone is going to knit him a scarf it’s me....and I’ll learn how to cook and sow and do his washing and ironing, tidy his bedroom, match his socks, hang his clothes up in the wardrobe, make sure his girlfriend is good enough for him......

I want you back, don’t care what I have to do
I want you back
I want you back, gotta get it through to you
I want you back
If I can make you see
Only you can fill the need in me
If you walk away
You’ll regret it some day
Please stay....

YES YES YES YES YES YES...

Did I say YES?

(Class is permanent, form is temporary, and this boy belongs in a blue shirt.)

Definitely YES , but I’d want an agreement in place that he signs permanently at the end of the season , I couldn’t go through another , will he - won’t he situation again . What p’ss me off more than anything is thinking where would we be now if he’d signed at the start of the season ? We never started playing this season until TC came back , imagine if we’d got points from the games against Villa , barcodes , reading , RS , and manure !
Well , I can dream , cant I ?

More news from spain.

http://www.setantasports.com/en/Sport/News/Football/2008/01/05/Premier-League-Everton-in-talks-over-Fernandes/

Yes let’s have him back...soon. According to El Mundo Deportivo, "his agent Jorge Mendes confirmed that the player, having spent a night in the police station following an argument in a disco, will be traneferred to the Liverpool club". This apparently is the official line....but let’s wait and see...and hope!

When I remember his goal against Manure and his beating three Arse players with a bit of magic, plus a host of other pieces of work, I want him back. When I think of the times he disappeared in games and the embarassment he put the Club through last summer, I’m not so sure.

I expect it will happen and it will be a "see before you buy" loan deal. That will allow Moyes to take a more measured decision on the player.

I am really sitting on the fence with this one; if he comes in and knuckles down, fantastic. However, if the rumours highlighted in this thread are true about his attitude, and his disco fightin’ is a sign of things to come, then ’no thanks’ because he will eat away at the great team spirit we have both on and off the pitch.

At least he’s free of that 3rd party crap now........

An interesting thread. As someone who lives in Portugal and who first broke the news about Manu looking likely to sign for the Blues in the summer, just a few comments and thoughts I’d like to share.

In the aftermath of Manu’s subsequent transfer to Valencia, even here in Portugal people were shocked and the full story was not revealed. Now as you may appreciate, Benfica is akin to Man Utd in Portugal with a large, nationwide support, but speaking to supporters of other clubs about the Manu affair, they shrugged their shoulders and said "what do you expect? No morality... no integrity... they do what they want."

On the one hand, with the third party ownership and Benfica simply looking for the best deal for themselves, Manu had little or no choice in moving to Valencia. On the other hand, I refuse to believe that he knew nothing about what was happening behind the scenes during the week he trained with us and was the guest of honour on the Saturday at the Blackburn game before, within 24 hours, flying out and immediately signing for Valencia. So he is, IMO, culpable to some degree.

That said, given the nature of David Moyes if he now does take Manu back there is an implicit acknowledgement that he recognizes greater forces than Manu?s (possible) duplicity were at play at the time and that whatever happened in August can be put aside and forgotten.

As for Manu?s actual ability ? and I know Connor in particular is a big fan ? a brief potted history. When the Italian coach Giovanni Trapattoni spent a single season with Benfica, leading them to their first title in 11 years in 2005, Manu ? at just 18 years old ? was a regular. However, when the new manager ? Ronald Koeman ? arrived a combination of a hernia problem and some personality clash saw Manu completely overlooked by the Dutchman. Some unflattering public comments about the club by Manu also saw him portrayed as something of a hate figure by many Benfica fans, seeing him as an ?ingrate? to the club that nurtured him (along similar lines to how Rooney is perceived by some Blues?). He then came to England, first with Pompey than us, and did? ?OK?. Ironic, then, that having signed for Valencia Manu ends up with Koeman as his manager again. Given their history, it is no wonder Manu is now looking at the exit door.

Now on this site and even in this thread I have read some pretty extravagant claims about Manu ? that he is ?world class? ? ?the future of Portuguese football?. He is not. There are other contemporary Portuguese footballers of a similar and younger age who are much, MUCH more highly regarded than Manu. And I totally disagree with Connor in this thread who says that ?Manu and James Vaughan got us into Europe in that last 6 months (of last season).? Whilst I agree he had his moments, no way did he have THAT much influence and impact on our performance. Compare Manu?s half season with us to that of Steven Pienaar? and the latter is STREETS ahead of Manu in consistency, performance, willingness to work for the team, ability, impact and contribution.

In conclusion, if Moyes is OK with it, then that is good enough for me. He is a good player and would be a useful addition, but he is far, FAR from being a ?great? player. There is potential there. And given the structure of EFC at the moment, he could greatly benefit from the discipline and work ethic that is self-evident at David Moyes? Everton. Something Manu himself acknowledged at the end of his loan period with us.

YES

I hope, like many of you have suggested, that DM is just being coy about the situation but I can?t recall him having denied being interested in a player then going on to sign them.

I think he generally tells it how it is when the press approach him and thats why I?ll listen to what he tells us rather than some speculative, inaccurate and maybe at times unprofessional journalism.

That said, I?d love to see Manny playing for us again. He?s a rare talent and a creative player is just what we need with the loss of Pienaar and the Yak to the Africa Cup of Nations. COYB, seal the deal!!!

If Moyes can cut a deal for Manny well bring him on. Just moving away from this, I was going to post a new post on this but in a hurry so someone else can if they want. Just read that the RS will not help out Luton with gate money to stop them from going bust GREEDY BASTARDS

Yes. It wasn’t his fault that the paperwork hadn’t gone through and Benfice then accepted an offer £4m more than ours from Valencia.

A RESOUNDING YES....WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT

NO

I would say ’yes’ but Moyes has already said ’no’ so it’s all a bit premature. I’ve thought all along that Moyes meant Fernandes when he mentioned ’one loan signing’ but his denial has thrown me. Whatever his shortcomings, telling porkies hasn’t been one of them.

From the link supplied by David Jones:

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=535536

It sounds to me that Valencia are trying to get shot of Manny asap! They know that we wanted him and by making these sorts of comments (along with the very honest Jorges Mendes) it kind of puts the wheels in motion and all we have to do is pick up the phone!
But if we take him we will in effect by promoting him to other ’top’ European teams who will be ablw to afford his ludicrous 60mil Euro buy out clause - or whatever it was. Be under no illusion that Fernandes will ever become a permanent Everton player. Valencia are just trying to stiff us AGAIN and at the very least they will be putting him in the shop window without having to take the risk of putting him in their starting 11. Also, doesn’t he still have third party ownership? Wasn’t that one of the aspects that made got him signed to Valencia in the first place and then there will obviously be all the complications (and expense) that goes with that.
I’m not saying that he wouldn’t be a good addition to out squad but how many of you would have Barmby back? If he’d wanted to play for Everton he could have signed after he’d PROMISED Moyes and BK that he was going to. I say fuck him.
Anyway, I think its all irrelevant - as I said I see this as Valencia just trying to put a deal on us that sounds quite attractive. But, and I’ll probably eat my words on this before the end of the day, I don’t think Moyes will take him.

Some good points all round. As I said earlier, and some of the other posts seem to confirm, The media in Spain seem to think it’s a done deal. On the other hand, as Steve Hughes says, it’s out of character for Moyes to deny interest if the interest truly exists. On the other hand (hold on, that’s 3 hands, isn’t it?), There’s a general consensus that Davie is learning as a manager.Maybe he’s learning when to keep his cards close to his chest. Once bitten and all that. Hope so. I’d love to see the lad in a blue shirt.

Ive heard from my brother, who heard from Prentice, at the Echo, that Manny has just signed until the end of the season. You heard it here first!!!

It says to me that Moyes does’t blame fernandez for the end of season fiasco, which is good enough for me, especially with the African nations just about to start.

Even if we did get him just till the end of the season, we need players in midfield like him now to push on and who knows what we could end up with come the end of the season! COYB!!

Get a grip people!!! I don’t see what whole hoo haa is about this guy. A couple of silky skills against Arsenal and a goal against Manure last season I honestly don’t think he contributed much to the team. you all are getting way ahead of yourselves. Remember this guy did the dirty on us by signing for Valencia - fuck would I want him back.He’s out in the cold at Valencia - well done Koeman. They say what goes around comes around and Fernandes derserves everything he gets!

If hes not signing then why is the loan deal on the valencia official website. Its a done deal and more to the point we will probably get him on the cheap because hes burned his bridges there. nice to see we now go about our transfer business quietly

Still have issues about this guy. I’d defo take him on loan like last season.

However, you can’t ignore the issues with attitude and the fact he has been ostracised at previous clubs. Add to that the 3rd party ownership crap (which I feel deeply uneasy about) and the large price tag should we want to make the deal permanent, and it doesn’t look such a sweet deal.

I still believe this lad is a talent, but a club like ours can’t afford to gamble too much. The big 4 can buy "throw away" players, spending 10m and if he doesn’t work out so what. We can’t do that.

Tread carefully Davey, this one could be booby trapped!

COYB!

Look lads, let's not have another Riquelme situation here (will he, won?t he) ? we all know what happened there. Just chill.

Everton’s director of communications Ian Ross says talks have taken place with Valencia regarding a deal for the player.

"He is a great player and could be with us soon," Ross told Antena 1. "I think it will be until the end of the season.

Not going to believe anything until it happens.
Once bitten etc.

Hope/expect that IF it happens he has a toe curling press conference to explain his side of the story.

And IF he does come, hide your watches...

Art Greeth, I do believe Vaughan and Fernandes where the main reasons we got into Europe last year. Obviously its always a team effort and I agree with that but Vaughan and Fernandes gave us something refreshing and different. Vaughan made us more direct whereas Fernandes gave us a lot more composure on the ball. Before that we where looking a bit out of ideas. Neville and Carsley in midfield and Cahill playing off Johnson was just getting to defensive and we where being found out. Why did our football improve so much when he came?

I am a big fan of Fernandes and I’d love to see him back. Its unfair to compare Pienaar and Fernandes. You fail to mention how long Pienaar took to adapt whereas Fernandes adapted well straight away. Pienaar has had 23 games to settle whereas Fernandes had 9/10 games. In those games I thought he was consistent. He had atleast 2 man of the match performances against Arsenal and Spurs and played to a good level in the rest of him matches. Thats not saying I dont rate Pienaar. I think Pienaar’s excellent and gives the team things Fernandes just doesn’t. Sign them both I say.

From the rumour mill, all I can see is that the move is a short-term loan only. Unless the club negotiate an option to buy him at the end of the season (like the Pienaar deal), I would say ’NO’ to a short-term loan. Without the option to buy, I’m not clear how the club will secure him for the long-term, and we’re back to the same problems we faced the last time. Instead, I would prefer another target who will definitely have the opportunity to stay in the long-term. Frankly, I would be astonished if the club tried to buy Fernandes outright given the horrendously complicated negotiations which appeared to have been required with the third-party owners previously.

Isn't he owned outright by Valencia now?

If not, haven't the Premier League outlawed 3rd party ownership?

Guys,

I just want to understand something here. Currently, Manny has made only a handful of substitute appearances for Valencia this season, after costing them £12 million. Valencia currently sit 7th in their league. He is certainly not in form. Given his price range, and the fact he left us (yes he did, he had a choice, nobody can be made to play for a club they dont want to play for) is this really ’the one’ who will bridge that gap?

He played for us around 8 times, and for Pompey about 8 too. I personally think we should take our time with this one, are there other midfielders out there in same price bracket who would be a better signing?

One thing I would like to point out though, is that there are some people clambering for him coming back, after him playing only a few games for us. These people also criticised other subjects on this site for ’not looking at other options’, but are willing to jump in feet first here by bringing in an expensive player on loan.

My personal belief is that we should be looking for someone else. I am not doubting Manny’s ’potential’, he has showns signs of a good player. But for £12 million, Everton want the finished article. And more importantly, someone who wants to play for Everton Football Club.

No idea what his ownership status is, nor if 3rd party ownership outlawed by the PL - after all, the press seem to indicate Mascherano is infact on loan to the RS. If Manny is owned by Valencia, any deal must be a loan deal with an option by Everton to buy. There’s no point bringing him on a short-term loan only (which seems to be the rumour - although someone please correct me if I am wrong). I deeply mistrust Fernandes’ / his agent and unless we can tie him down I would prefer to see the club concentrate on a long-term target.

Dan, its supposedly on loan which gives him a chance to prove whether he’s in form or not. The fact is we need players and Fernandes is a known quantity. If there’s someone better out there who we can get then leave him in Spain but sadly no one fills me with confidence.

If he comes back then he has to prove himself again. I’m a big fan of his but I won’t be lenient on him. He has to perform and earn a stay. But you’ve got to give him a chance to do this.

Who else is out there? Diaby and Diarra are also potential. Fernandes is probably more experienced than both and more the finished article. Arshavin won’t join us and he isn’t proven in this league. Downing is a decent player but not in Fernandes’s league and would also cost a fortune because he is English. I just don’t see anyone. We won’t spend 12 million in January so a loan would be perfect. I actually dont think int will be 12 million. On some articles it said Valencia bought him out right for 12-15 million. Ronald Koeman hates him and will want to get rid of him as soon as possible.

No one knows the situation that happened so no one can really comment. I haven’t got any idea what happened so for me to say anything would be lying. According to our board he fucked us off but according to Alan Irvine the deal just couldn’t be done due to third party ownership. Who do you believe? I’d personally rather believe Alan Irvine but thats just my opinion.

Anyway, I’m off to the match in half an hour so we’ll leave it at that. COYB

Even if it is just short term its still good business, with our depleted midfield he would be an excellent addition. People mention players like Asharvin and Albelda, but with no preseason we wouldnt see the best out of them until next season anyway. We need someone who knows the team and most of the players, can walk straight in and help us beat Chelsea this tuesday.

If we lose him in the summer again but keep our form going through till may then so be it, we can then look at Asharvin and the like.

Connor, I continue to totally disagree with your claim re: ?Vaughan and Fernandes where the main reasons we got into Europe last year?.

After we signed Fernandes (at the end of January ? he did not play a single game for us in that month), our complete playing record during his time with us was:

P W D L PTS
14 6 5 3 23

Manu?s own playing history with us is actually very, VERY limited. In the NINE starts he had for us ? that is correct, just NINE starts ? he was substituted in four of them:

P W D L PTS
9 4 2 3 14

Of our four games in February, he was a non-playing sub against the ?poo and started in our other three games, being subbed in two of them, scoring against Watford. We had two games in March. He played 90 minutes in both. For most of April he was injured and missed four consecutive games. He then started the final two games of that month ? both losses away to WHU and home to United. He was subbed after an hour at the Hammers and scored against United. We had just two games in May ? home to Pompey and away to Chelsea. He was substituted on 75 mins against Chelsea.

During his time with us, WITHOUT him in the side our record reads:

P W D L PTS
5 2 3 0 9

All of this clearly indicates to me that he did NOT make the difference you claim in ensuring a European place.

Nor do I think it is unfair to compare Pienaar and Fernandes. I do, I can, I will. The criteria we are using here is how each has impacted and benefited the team ? and I am firmly of the opinion that Pienaar?s level of performance and overall contribution is far, far greater than Manu?s ever was. I do not accept your suggestion that Pienaar took longer took to adapt than Manu. Within SECONDS of coming on as sub in the opening game of the season against Wigan he was largely instrumental in setting up Victor?s winning goal. SP has clearly been one of the players of the season ? something you yourself recognized a few days ago when you described him as rapidly becoming your favourite player.

Now like you, I like them both and I would have no objections to seeing them both at the club, as OUR players, on long term contracts. But I continue to dispute your claim as to how great an impact Manu had in his time with us last year. He is a good player, not a great one. There is potential, but there is also a troubled history with Manu ? not necessarily always of his own making ? and right now (IMHO) Pienaar appears a far better prospect and asset than Manu.

Decision time (and this may have been asked elsewhere)

End of the season Moyes as enough money to make a few signings and keep one of his on loan players.

If Fernandes does come on loan would you want him to keep Pienaar or Fernandes?

Fact of the matter is, he’d give us another midfield option now the AFCON is coming up which really means that we should not have to face Phil Neville in midfield. That reason alone should be enough to want him back.

I really like the guy, I think what happened in the summer was not of his doing and if Moyes can get him for long enough he’ll get the best out of him like with Pienaar, Arteta, Yak etc

I see Sky Sports has retracted its story about Fernandes and Everton now. Don?t believe the hype... wait until concrete evidence is shown because it just makes for bitter disappointment otherwise.

I thought he was a good player but prone to moments where he would go missing during a game. We all want class in our football team but we also want the same work ethos that we have now in all our current players. We don?t want a Barton on our hands (perhaps exaggeration as I don?t think he?s that much of a fool). Let Mr Moyes and Co. work their magic as they have so far done! COYB!!

Just wondering if the Toffeweb lads know if 89 reponses to a mailbag entry is a record? I refer, of course, to the post below "Should we welcome Manuel Fernandes back? If it is not, what is the record?

No. you made it 90.

Oh hang on... now it?s 91!!!

We ve just lost to crappy Oldham at home so I need a pick me up. So YYYYYYYYEEEEEESSSSSSSS ! Come home boy, I forgive you ? you little tinker!

After all the speculation today following DM?s denial yesterday, if Fernandes signs in the next 48 hours it will smack of "burying some bad news".

Oh FFS Simon... what contradictory nonsense! Just what the frig are you saying exactly???!!!

That Moyes is a liar? That he actually doesn’t want Manu? That this is being imposed on him by the board? That we deliberately lost to Oldham today? That he is only going to sign Manu now to deflect attention from the Cup defeat?

Jeez... the cynicism of some people...

Art, Pienaar has played 24 games aswell as 3 substitute appearances whereas Fernandes started 8 games and made 1 substitute appearance. No you can’t compare because it would be completely unfair.

Pienaar has had alot more games to show his worth to the team whereas Fernandes on his few chances showed what a good player he was. Pienaar took a while to adapt. Yes he was involved in the Wigan goal but then he went missing for a few weeks. His first start against Bolton was hit and miss. He looked good on the ball but the physical side of the game definatly surprised him and his crossing was also poor. Pienaar for me only started to show his potential against Larissa AE and since then he’s shown alot of quality and consistency. Before that he was having a good game (Boro at home) and an average game (Newcastle away). Even Pienaar himself admitted on Everton TV that the pace of the football was hard for him when he first arrived and he needed time.

Fernandes’s situation was different. He came in against Blackburn at 20 and impressed straight away. He was excellent for the first 70 minutes until he tired. His next 7 starts for me where consistent. He and Carsley where excellent against Arsenal in the 1-0 win and Moyes’s was booed off for taking Fernandes off against Spurs when he was our most creative and positive player.

He was also played out of position during his spell hear. He played on the right wing against Watford and he played on the left against Chelsea and Man utd. Although being a very central played he still played well out wide. He also scored 2 goals in that time which is not bad at all.

The there’s also the fitness issue. Fernandes was not fit when he joined us. He hadn’t had a pre-season due to injury and he wasn’t allowed to play 3 games in a row with Portsmouth because of the contract agreement with Benfica. So really he was behind on fitness when he joined us and hadn’t had any momentum in terms of playing games. Pienaar had had a pre-season and had come in tip top condition.

As ive said you just can’t compare there situations. If they had both played a similar amount of games then yes but they haven’t so it would be unfair to say who had more of an impact.

I not saying Fernandes is better than Pienaar nor am I saying Pienaar is better than Fernandes. There completely different and would compliment our team in different ways. I’d love to see them linking up together along with Cahill, Carsley, Arteta and Osman. I say make it happen.

Art,
I would love to see Manny back in an Everton shirt, but your posts today suggest someone somewhere isn?t telling the whole truth. Wouldn?t you be cynical too?

Yes I would have him back if it's only on loan and he goes elsewhere next year that's life ? who's using who? We need him to fit in during the ANC and he needs to get away.

Michael, I think you were a bit unfair cutting off the other Manny thread, others may have had a something important to say, but that's just my opinion.

Anway what I came on to say was when ever we are linked with players I go on YouTube and have a look at clips of these players. The clips I have seen of Manny give the impression of a player of with real quality and class, blessed with skill and the ability to beat a man or 5 and can also score wonder goals, a raw talent of pure potentail.

However this is exactly the kind of things i would of said about McFadden when he first arrived at 19, but he never showed his full potential which is worrying if the same thing should happen to Manny for an £8 millon player, at least Faddy was only a million, its a bit too much of a gamble for my liking.

Connor, Pienaar has effectively had four months at Everton as Manu had four months in his spell with us. The only reason Pienaar has had the opportunity to play more games is for the simple reason there were more games to play. Furthermore, he has evidently impressed the manager (and fellow players and fans such as yourself?) sufficiently enough to be selected to play.

I repeat, the criteria on which the two are being judged (in our exchange) is the IMPACT either player has made to the benefit of the team. Choose any nine games you wish that Pienaar has played for Everton and I would suggest his IMPACT to the benefit of the team has been far greater than the nine games Manu played for us. Therefore, the comparison IS a fair one. Was it you yourself who recently pointed out that SP has contributed more assists than Mikel this season??

Having earlier reminded you that within seconds of coming on in his first appearance against Wigan he set up Victor?s winner, you counter that his first start against Bolton was ?hit and miss?? but fail to mention his incisive pass set AJ away to lay it on a plate for the Yak to score on his debut. You state that Pienaar was in an out in his early games, yet claim Manu impressed straight away. I and many others disagree with that assessment and it has been widely commented on that Manu did go missing in many games after a 30 second cameo of brilliance. You are clutching at straws when you say he was not fit when he joined us. He DID have a pre-season with Pompey and DID play regularly for them.

I, too, am not saying Fernandes is better than Pienaar nor am I saying Pienaar is better than Fernandes. I am simply arguing that Pienaar HAS had a greater impact to the benefit of the team then Manu did in his time with us? and the stats, I would suggest, support my standpoint over yours.

As for Simon Templeman, your follow up post is almost as equally ridiculous as your original post. My detailed post on the Manu situation displays no cynicism whatsoever ? just a pragmatic overview of the possible position of the different parties at the time of Manu?s move to Valencia. At no point do I suggest or imply anyone lied or failed to tell the truth. I simply state that I do not find it credible that Manu did not know of moves behind the scenes to transfer him to Valencia whilst he was training with us. A perfectly legitimate observation, given the little facts we do know of his about face.

Ok then Art Greeth compare Pienaar’s first 8 starts to Fernandes’s first 8. Pienaar played against Bolton, Aston Villa, Sheffield Wednesday, Middlesbro, Newcastle, Larissa, Derby and Luton. Out of those games I’d say he played well against Larissa, Derby and Boro. He wasn’t spectacular in any of them but he still played to a good level. The rest where average. He was being slated as shit and lightweight up until around the Boro game and then things started to look better. His real form started around the Larissa game and since then he’s been brilliant bar the odd game.

Fernandes 8 games where against Blackburn, Spurs, Watford, Sheffield utd, Arsenal, Man utd, Portsmouth and Chelsea. Out of those eight games I would say he was a contender for man of the match in both the Arsenal and Spurs games, had good games against Portsmouth, Watford and Blackburn and was pretty average against Sheffield Utd and Man utd. I personally would say over both players eight games Fernandes impressed me more and had more of an impact on games.

And I’m saying that whole heartedly. I go to games both home and away and then I watch them on TV again. It gives me more of a perspective on the games and helps me to see how we performed as a team and as individuals. In my opinion Fernandes performed better than Pienaar.

Yes I was the one who pointed out that Pienaar has been our most creative player this season and he has been more creative than Fernandes. What you have got to understand is that there roles in the team are completely different. Pienaar plays wide left in a 5 man midfield. He’s naturally a more attacking player than Fernandes and has the option of an extra man to cover him in midfield. Fernandes is less attacking and a more all round midfielder. He played in a 4 man midfield with Lee Carsley and had to do his fair share of defensive duties aswell as start attacks. As I’ve said there different types of players who accommodate different roles in the team.

What do you expect from Fernandes? Do you expect him to dominate games at the age of 21. I’m not that unrealistic. I try to compare to our own players. Our best midfielder goes missing in games. Arteta doesn’t turn up for the majority of away games and doesn’t play well when the big guns come to town. There have also been times where he goes missing for long periods against the lower level sides. Pienaar is also not an all action midfielder and he does go missing during games. I’m not saying Fernandes doesn’t because he did on occasions like Pienaar and Arteta.

I just don’t agree with this thirty second cameo bollocks. People try and make out like all he did was a little skill against Arsenal and then went invisible..........bullshit. He had excellent distribution, he was skillful and intelligent, he got involved physically, he dictated alot of our attacks and got himself a few goals. He really impressed me in terms of all round game and judging by the majority of Everton sites and Forums most also found him to be an impressive player. We actually started to play some impressive football aswell which was down to Arteta, Fernandes and Osman.

I’m not actually clutching to straws when I say he wasn’t fit. Both he and Moyes’s admitted this themselves. I found this quote aswell:

"Fernandes signed on loan to Portsmouth with a deal agreed for a permanent transfer of approximately £7 million if he fully recovered from his groin injury. A transfer was first proposed in late July 2006 but could not be concluded as Fernandes was still suffering from the injury and failed a club medical twice. In an unusual move, Benfica allowed the player to be treated at Portsmouth in the hope that he would regain fitness before the September 1st transfer deadline. After five weeks at the club, it was projected that he still needed two months recovery and so the initial loan deal with a future fee was agreed."

Well, if he is on the way on loan we can see if the lightning can be captured twice...on our terms.

Everton should have some leverage after his disastrous stay at Valencia, so:

1. A loan with an iron clad exclusive option to buy at the end of his spell

2. Crow bar him out of this 3rd party nonsense...Lord knows how all that works

3. A fee a fair shake below that ridiculous 12 mill price tag

Anything less, not worth the risk.

Also, how do you pronounce this Manu business. Man U? I don’t think I could abide that...

Connor, at no time in our exchange have I suggested or tried to compare Manu and Pienaar as similar players, so our discussion is not about that. For me, I continue to dispute your claim that the impact Manu had in his time with us was the decisive factor that helped us qualify for Europe.

In the games you have selected to compare the two, I would call it a dead heat ? both had their moments, both were ordinary. I could also suggest that whereas Manu had the benefit of already having played half a season in England with Portsmouth, Pienaar came ?cold? having also been marginalised in Germany the previous season.

To try and bolster your argument, you state that Pienaar ?was being slated as shit and lightweight up until around the Boro game?. That was little more than throwaway, stereotypical profiling from some posters on this forum. Others were equally saying that there were glimpses in his game that we had a good footballer on our hands. Even you admit that when saying Pienaar is ?our most creative player this season and he has been more creative than Fernandes.

You ask me what do I expect from Fernandes. Let me tell you? I expect him to be technically competent as many Portuguese footballers are. I expect he would improve our squad. I expect him to conform to the ethos and work ethic that is very much part and parcel of David Moyes? Everton. I expect him to develop and improve. I do not expect him, as you again ask me, to dominate games.

Implicit in that last statement of yours ? ?do you expect Fernandes to dominate games at the age of 21? ? is an admission from you that YOU don?t expect him to dominate games. So? are you effectively agreeing with me? That Manu?s impact was not as great as you originally claimed in this thread??

I have already clearly stated that I would be very happy to have both Pienaar and Manu signed up as OUR players, so again, I am not disputing the lad?s qualities. What I do dispute is your claim that he made as great an impact as you state. You will hear no complaints from me if he returns to the fold, but I continue to say ? and this is with the benefit of my close association with Portugal ? that he is a good player, but no where near a great player. If he was, he WOULD be dominating games even at the tender age of 21 and it would be impossible to drop him (as Koeman has done).

Art Greeth, I think we're just going to agree to disagree. I agree with alot of your points yet I disagree with some also but thats football. Its a game of opinions.

Some good interesting posts there mate. Keep it up.

I enjoyed the exchange too, Connor. It’s nice to have a proper footy conversation without slagging the other person off.

Cheers matey...

So, has he signed yet?