The Mail Bag
Positively 4th St??
Comments (18)
We were in 4 out of 4 comps, now it's 3 out of 4. In 2 months and 10 games it could be 1 out of 4, or, if the league form slumps it might be 0 out of 4. Numbers eh! you've got to love them. They dominate our lives, on and off the field. The little buggers are everywhere. 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 3rd round, League 1, 0-1, Moyes's 2nd 5 yrs.
So there's numbers everywhere you look, especially in the players bank balances... Strange then how our main problem with numbers is, on 2 counts, where it counts, is a lack: In the Bank; and in the Squad The only thing we don't seem to be short of is has-beens, never-will-bes, suspensions, injuries and ACN participants.
Davie has, along with upping the standard of the best 11, upped the standard of the 2nd tier and in doing so given us the best squad we've had since the very late 80s. All it means is his continued sell 1, buy 1, loan 1 is here for 4 more years
I do feel though, that it will be a case of Highway 61 revisited and we will end up with yet another of Davie's 50 ish% seasons, albeit through no fault of his own
An 11th / 6th finish is somewhere on the cards. This will, for me, not be the end of the world due to the improvement of the overall STYLE of football.
1 step at a time.
Derek Thomas, Posted 06/01/2008 at 05:30:52
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Max Meindl
2 Posted 06/01/2008 at 09:22:38
2 Posted 06/01/2008 at 09:22:38
Mick, I think your comments are unfounded. We have really played well in Europe with literally the same squad. I would love it if we were still in the FA cup but to be honest it would really strecth our squad if we had to be in 4 contests and about to lose 3 players to the ACN. So the fact that the team had a shuffle around is good management. I felt the players let us down but we are still having an amazing season.
And if the supporters carry on supporting the club as they did yesterday we might be able to bring in a few more class players.
The only thing about yesterday is that is proved for me that we should sell McFadden and that Grav is past it. Hopefully we get at least 3 to 4 mill for McFadden.
And if the supporters carry on supporting the club as they did yesterday we might be able to bring in a few more class players.
The only thing about yesterday is that is proved for me that we should sell McFadden and that Grav is past it. Hopefully we get at least 3 to 4 mill for McFadden.
Alan Clarke
3 Posted 06/01/2008 at 09:35:06
3 Posted 06/01/2008 at 09:35:06
It is not good management to lose to Oldham in the FA cup.
Again, it?s this acceptance of mediocrity that creeps in to some Evertonians mind set to justify another embarassing defeat. I tottaly agree with Mick, the club should let the fans know prior to the game, simlarly to how Steve Coppel did, that we have no intention of competing in the FA Cup.
Again, it?s this acceptance of mediocrity that creeps in to some Evertonians mind set to justify another embarassing defeat. I tottaly agree with Mick, the club should let the fans know prior to the game, simlarly to how Steve Coppel did, that we have no intention of competing in the FA Cup.
David Jones
4 Posted 06/01/2008 at 10:51:13
4 Posted 06/01/2008 at 10:51:13
Derek, good post, my friend. After all the premature back-slapping and celebrating of this wonderful season (that is only half way through and in which we have actually achieved absolutely nothing), I fear we are going to see tears before bedtime. The media are equally as guilty. "Do it the Everton way, they have proven that a manager needs time..." yada yada. Yeah, right. Why can?t people stop trying to apply wild science and theory to football and just accept that the game is played on grass and can change dramatically from week to week?? I?m sorry guys but I think Derek is spot on. Prepare yourselves for the worst.
Tony Hawkins
5 Posted 06/01/2008 at 11:03:44
5 Posted 06/01/2008 at 11:03:44
@ Alan Clarke - That is so wrong!
Set a realistic target, please.
There is no acceptance of anything less than the best - it is a realisation of the reality we live in. To consider Everton can or will win the league this season or the next is pure folly. To WISH and HOPE our team will finish 1st is part of the beautiful game however, simply to remove peoples reservations over where the team actually is performance and quality wise by reducing it to "acceptance of mediocrity" shows a lacking understanding of where the team real is at.
I want Everton to win the league, I want Everton to win in Europe - is it a realistic hope? To win in Europe is a possibility but to win the league? Come on!
The best any fan can hope for and expect from the team is that they win as many as they can and that the team all believe they CAN win against any opposition. That is what the team, I believe are now doing (Oldham aside!).
What are the stats now - 9 unbeaten games out of 11 or something? That sounds great to me - did ANYONE expect that at the start of the season? Many hoped for it but I don’t think many expected it. The most expected was a top 6 finish at the end of the season with the improved performances being the main thing which has increased expectations to another possible top 4 finish.
Depending on what happens between now and the end of the summer 2008 will decided whether, I for one, will go into the 2008/9 season with hopes of breaking into the top 4 properly. To win the league would take a demise of Arsenal and Man U’s team - poor signings and injuries.
Can we stop deluding ourselves that we can or could have won the league in the last few years - or this season. Hope, Expectation and reality are all often very different things and there is nothing wrong with hope or expectation as that is what will push the team onwards and upwards!
Set a realistic target, please.
There is no acceptance of anything less than the best - it is a realisation of the reality we live in. To consider Everton can or will win the league this season or the next is pure folly. To WISH and HOPE our team will finish 1st is part of the beautiful game however, simply to remove peoples reservations over where the team actually is performance and quality wise by reducing it to "acceptance of mediocrity" shows a lacking understanding of where the team real is at.
I want Everton to win the league, I want Everton to win in Europe - is it a realistic hope? To win in Europe is a possibility but to win the league? Come on!
The best any fan can hope for and expect from the team is that they win as many as they can and that the team all believe they CAN win against any opposition. That is what the team, I believe are now doing (Oldham aside!).
What are the stats now - 9 unbeaten games out of 11 or something? That sounds great to me - did ANYONE expect that at the start of the season? Many hoped for it but I don’t think many expected it. The most expected was a top 6 finish at the end of the season with the improved performances being the main thing which has increased expectations to another possible top 4 finish.
Depending on what happens between now and the end of the summer 2008 will decided whether, I for one, will go into the 2008/9 season with hopes of breaking into the top 4 properly. To win the league would take a demise of Arsenal and Man U’s team - poor signings and injuries.
Can we stop deluding ourselves that we can or could have won the league in the last few years - or this season. Hope, Expectation and reality are all often very different things and there is nothing wrong with hope or expectation as that is what will push the team onwards and upwards!
Alan Clarke
6 Posted 06/01/2008 at 12:22:43
6 Posted 06/01/2008 at 12:22:43
No Tony, it is not so wrong. Are we to stop deluding ourselves and start believing we aren?t any better than Oldham? Am I deluded to think we should be able to beat Oldham at home?
Let's be realistic then, we aren?t going to win the league this year or any year soon but all this crap Moyes is spouting about "finishing top 10 would be an achievment" is pure crap and anyone who believes this is accepting mediocrity.
I am not implying every Evertonian accepts mediocrity but some seem to be justifying our embarassing home defeat to Oldham still as progress! Yesterday was totally inexcusable and anyone who thinks we should be ?realistic? and accept a home defeat to Oldham in the cup really is deluded.
Let's be realistic then, we aren?t going to win the league this year or any year soon but all this crap Moyes is spouting about "finishing top 10 would be an achievment" is pure crap and anyone who believes this is accepting mediocrity.
I am not implying every Evertonian accepts mediocrity but some seem to be justifying our embarassing home defeat to Oldham still as progress! Yesterday was totally inexcusable and anyone who thinks we should be ?realistic? and accept a home defeat to Oldham in the cup really is deluded.
Eric Hardman
7 Posted 06/01/2008 at 12:28:25
7 Posted 06/01/2008 at 12:28:25
There are two reasons why we can’t consider ourselves likely to win the League.
1) On the field, we have a manager who is not up to it, and I don’t think ever will be. Yesterday proved that for the umpteenth time in the last five years.
2)Off the field, we have a Board who have allowed us to drift downwards for years, cannot or will not find the wherewithal to allow us to compete and refuse to sell the club to anyone who might do so.
1) On the field, we have a manager who is not up to it, and I don’t think ever will be. Yesterday proved that for the umpteenth time in the last five years.
2)Off the field, we have a Board who have allowed us to drift downwards for years, cannot or will not find the wherewithal to allow us to compete and refuse to sell the club to anyone who might do so.
Joe McMahon
8 Posted 06/01/2008 at 13:51:40
8 Posted 06/01/2008 at 13:51:40
I watched in Horror yesterday at the shear lack of quality our sqaud has to offer. 6million for baines???, Hibbert (again) Johnson just has no killer instinct. I fear the worse cos of our lack of squad quaily- no cups and fininshing 7-10th
Tony Hawkins
9 Posted 06/01/2008 at 13:55:45
9 Posted 06/01/2008 at 13:55:45
Alan, I agree whole heartedly with your last post.
We should never have lost to Oldham and that in itself is not progress. A top 10 finish is no longer acceptable - a top 6 finish however, is - and that is progress!!
We should never have lost to Oldham and that in itself is not progress. A top 10 finish is no longer acceptable - a top 6 finish however, is - and that is progress!!
Rob Jones
10 Posted 06/01/2008 at 15:39:41
10 Posted 06/01/2008 at 15:39:41
Well, well, well... 3 defeats and suddenly all the doommongers are back. Get over it! Okay so we lost to Oldham, I can?t remember Shrewsbury affecting ou season a few years back.
Eric:
"1) On the field, we have a manager who is not up to it, and I don?t think ever will be. Yesterday proved that for the umpteenth time in the last five years.
"2)Off the field, we have a Board who have allowed us to drift downwards for years, cannot or will not find the wherewithal to allow us to compete and refuse to sell the club to anyone who might do so. "
1) 2 european finishes and a semi final with good hopes of a final, got us competing for europe regularly on a shoestring budget until this season.
2) 11.25m (yak) 8m (AJ) 6m (Beattie) 6m (Baines) is that the finances of a board tat will not put money over for us, we?re on track for 6th for the 2nd season in a row so explain to me how exactly they have allowed us to drift downwards?And finally the best thing they ever did and something we should always be grateful for, they brought in Moyesie
Eric:
"1) On the field, we have a manager who is not up to it, and I don?t think ever will be. Yesterday proved that for the umpteenth time in the last five years.
"2)Off the field, we have a Board who have allowed us to drift downwards for years, cannot or will not find the wherewithal to allow us to compete and refuse to sell the club to anyone who might do so. "
1) 2 european finishes and a semi final with good hopes of a final, got us competing for europe regularly on a shoestring budget until this season.
2) 11.25m (yak) 8m (AJ) 6m (Beattie) 6m (Baines) is that the finances of a board tat will not put money over for us, we?re on track for 6th for the 2nd season in a row so explain to me how exactly they have allowed us to drift downwards?And finally the best thing they ever did and something we should always be grateful for, they brought in Moyesie
Mick Wrende
11 Posted 06/01/2008 at 15:43:03
11 Posted 06/01/2008 at 15:43:03
I agree with Alan Clarke?s comments. Moyes is wrong when he thinks we have strength in depth now. OK put one or two of yesterdays side in the strongest team and we can carry them but not that many. If you picked our very strongest eleven there would only have been Piennar and Carsley out of yesterdays team and lets face it Piennar only played because he is leaving today. If we played that side in the premiership we would be relegated and would be in the bottom half of the championship. Mediocre is being kind. As people point out here we have no chance of winning the prem so why not a good run in the cup for the fans but if not why do the club try to con us into thinking so. And arent we really kidding ourselves to think we have a realistic chance of beating Chelsea over 2 legs.
Allan Hobbs
12 Posted 06/01/2008 at 16:00:11
12 Posted 06/01/2008 at 16:00:11
We put out a team good enough to beat Oldham but it just didnt happen. There are plenty of other PL clubs who went out, and even some top names only sneaked through - Chelsea struggled v QPR and the Arse just had a tough game v Burnley.
It might end up being a blessing anyway - personally, not that arsed; we’re in the CC semi and doing well in UEFA Cup + League.
It might end up being a blessing anyway - personally, not that arsed; we’re in the CC semi and doing well in UEFA Cup + League.
Arthur Jones
13 Posted 06/01/2008 at 17:58:33
13 Posted 06/01/2008 at 17:58:33
The team Everton put out yesterday should have beaten Oldham. I?ve just watched Liverpool draw with Luton with a team of internationals and they were lucky. Arsenal, Man Utd play a team of kids for games such as these and sometimes come unstuck ? it?s Football, it happens, it?s happened since the FA cup has been played.
OK not a very good performance by highly paid players but a game we could have easily won if a couple of chances had been converted but at least we never done what Man Utd did a few seasons ago and refused to enter a team in the competition ?cos of a money spinning world club cup game. They should have been made to play a team even if they were 15-yr olds or to never be allowed into the competition again.
Keith Glazzard
14 Posted 06/01/2008 at 18:29:24
14 Posted 06/01/2008 at 18:29:24
Arthur, I hadn’t heard the news from Luton. I hope you’re right.
On the basis of win some - lose some, I was at least happy that we didn’t get a replay, the last thing we needed right now. Come on Luton.
And MU Fuck the Cup - they should surely have been allowed back in - during the qualifying stages.
On the basis of win some - lose some, I was at least happy that we didn’t get a replay, the last thing we needed right now. Come on Luton.
And MU Fuck the Cup - they should surely have been allowed back in - during the qualifying stages.
Mick Wrende
15 Posted 06/01/2008 at 19:15:56
15 Posted 06/01/2008 at 19:15:56
The difference between our performance and those of Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U is that we are out and they are not. The team we put out yesterday was clearly not strong enough to beat Oldham and that for a club like ours is a disgrace. OK other Premier League sides lost but none at home to a mid first division side. Anyway, I thought we were supposed to be better than sides like Birmingham and Blackburn. Moyes said in the week he didn't want another Shrewsbury.... and that's exactly what he got!!!
Mick Gallagher
16 Posted 06/01/2008 at 19:53:02
16 Posted 06/01/2008 at 19:53:02
Eric, think back to Walter Smith and tell me we haven?t moved forward. Okay so we got to the quarters in the FA Cup with him and played shite in the both of them. I know which team I like watching.
Derek Thomas
17 Posted 06/01/2008 at 22:53:29
17 Posted 06/01/2008 at 22:53:29
Dear All: I?ve just read the AZ / Oldham piece and I think it has some merit.
Almost the same team, playing poorer opposition, so it must be down to the players and the Clubs attitude to the game.
The thing that will ?do? for us will be the ACN
Moyes ?seems? to have turned the corner style wise, for which I am eternally grateful and apart from the self-inflicted, can?t be really arsed about the FA Cup attitude, most of his / our problems are things he can?t control.
We will have to re-aquire the collective mind set that was the first half of the 04-05 season and come away with a draw minimum at Chelsea
Almost the same team, playing poorer opposition, so it must be down to the players and the Clubs attitude to the game.
The thing that will ?do? for us will be the ACN
Moyes ?seems? to have turned the corner style wise, for which I am eternally grateful and apart from the self-inflicted, can?t be really arsed about the FA Cup attitude, most of his / our problems are things he can?t control.
We will have to re-aquire the collective mind set that was the first half of the 04-05 season and come away with a draw minimum at Chelsea
Arthur Jones
18 Posted 07/01/2008 at 09:39:10
18 Posted 07/01/2008 at 09:39:10
If one thing is to come out of the Oldham game it?s surely a wake up call to mssrs kenwright and Earl and the need for some backing for DM to build on the squad with quality players to carry on everything we have achieved this season . Manny would be a great start . In BK?s latest interview on Everton tv he said robert earl i now a big Evertonian and a great businesman . Earl himself has said he thinks we should be aiming for the top 4 places . Well now is the perfect time to back his words with hard cash , after an embarrasing defeat and in the last transfer window before the crucial end of season matches which could make or break our season . I just don?t want to condemn our exciting 1st half of the season to death on the back of one poor performance
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1 Posted 06/01/2008 at 09:11:49