ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

The Manuel Plot Thickens...

The Observer today confidently states as fact that we've got Fernandes on loan: :

Everton have taken Portugal international Manuel Fernandes on loan for the second consecutive January window. The former Benfica and Portsmouth midfielder had agreed to join the club on a permanent transfer last summer only to switch to Valencia at the last minute.

My own view is that none of us really know what happened with his proposed move in the summer. So I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt in the hope that he helps us maintain our momentum for the rest of the season. But I do think some people have gone a bit overboard describing him as 'world class', but he's obviously a talented player who will hopefully contribute positively.

And if there's even a hint of him not playing ball or messing the club about then it's off you pop my son, back to your mate Koeman..
Ben McCann, Leeds Posted 06/01/2008 at 14:52:16

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Sean Dylan
1 Posted 06/01/2008 at 15:34:00

Has anyone any evidence that Fernandes is owned outright by Valencia?

While I'm here ? if anyone's been chin-wagging with some club official this weekend I'm interested to know of the latest. The lad's a bit of a case for sure but I certainly reckon with such quality, he's worth the gamble.

John Murphy
2 Posted 06/01/2008 at 16:05:07

Delighted with the fact that it looks like Manny may be back with us. I believe he is the man to help us make the step up to the next level. The way I see it, in the summer, Everton had a 6 million bid from Benfica for 50% of the player accepted. The major problem then was to get clearance from the FA, but this took a very long time. As the deal looked like it was going to be concluded, Valencia made a 10 million bid to Benfica for 50% of the player. Benfica then stopped negotiations with Everton and acceped the Valencia bid. Now lets put this into our own scenario. If Birmingham made a bid for McFadden and we allow them to speak to him, but then Celtic come in and offer 4 million more, would you expect Everton to accept both an just let him decide. I don’t think so.

Tony Williams
3 Posted 06/01/2008 at 16:12:32

Nothing on the OS (not surprisingly) but if it is true, what have we got to lose?

A loan deal to help our midfield problems and then cheerio in the summer and we buy a player that actually wants to come here, nothing lost.

Paul Simpson
4 Posted 06/01/2008 at 16:23:01

I was told just before Christmas that Manny might be signing on loan, not been made official but I am sure it will be tonight. I think we are in for another surprise signing if my info is correct, midfield player from the Spanish league, I just want to check with my mate in Spain on this, but he is usually spot on with any transfer news from Spain, involving British clubs. Moyes has had scouts all over Spain and Germany since the beginning of December apparently, I will post back in an hour about this potential target.

Neil Pearse
5 Posted 06/01/2008 at 16:35:34

After watching Neville, Gravesen and McFadden playing (supposedly) in midfield in recent weeks, reinforcements from Spain and Germany can’t come soon enough!

Eddie Harrison
6 Posted 06/01/2008 at 16:44:07

Isn’t it funny that when the Manny deal fell through last time a few people made tongue in cheek posts about Fernandes having a bad half season and he’ll be back with us by January.

Dan Wragg
7 Posted 06/01/2008 at 17:24:47

I can tell you 99% that a deal is in place, and everyone is waiting for Moyes to sanction the signing!

Sean Dylan
8 Posted 06/01/2008 at 17:42:10

Sorry if i sound somewhat cynical Dan but what’s your 99% based upon exactly? I mean we’ve all heard the rumours that are floating about but at the end of it all, at the moment that’s all they indeed are.

Dave Rooney
9 Posted 06/01/2008 at 17:55:17

I have to agree with you Sean, I can’t believe Everton and Valencia would put all the work into getting a loan agreement 99% complete without the manager of Everton actually either knowing or agreeing to it,

Paul Simpson
10 Posted 06/01/2008 at 18:01:33

My mate lives in Madrid and he was saying there is not a lot of news about Fernandes today in the Spanish press, but he reckons he will become an Everton loan player, even though Koeman wants a permenant deal. But he said one of the Spanish rags was saying that Koeman has lost the plot and hiring and firing players for fun, two of these are Vogel and Albelda, and he reckons Moyes might move for not just one of these but both, Aparantly Albelda is suing Valencia for being sacked or something anyway lets wait and see, me not convinced with this one.

Sean Dylan
11 Posted 06/01/2008 at 18:10:27

Precisely. Furthermore, i’m still in the dark to who actually owns this lad. John Murphy said at the top (albeit without any evidence) that Valencia only own the left-hand-side of Fernandes but as good as he is, i can’t believe that Valencia valued him at £20 million. This of course gives me the hope that they may own him outright and that any loan deal we may make will importantly include the right to buy at the end. Possibly below £10million for if anything his value must have surely decreased since joining Valencia.

Neil Pearse
12 Posted 06/01/2008 at 18:15:38

Please! Albelda and Manny, then we can be spared the sight of Neville, Jagielka, Gravesen or McFadden trying to play as midfielders again. Please!

Steve Jones
13 Posted 06/01/2008 at 18:06:08

Perhaps the hold up is agreeing the fee for a permanent deal at the end of the season - these are usually agreed up front once the loan is agreed.
I would imagine Everton will only offer what they wanted to pay to Benfica ie £6 mill to the club and £6mill to the part owner.

£12million would constitute a loss to Valencia, so no doubt its a problem for them. Interestingly they have just agreed to buy an Argentinian midfielder Banega as Manny?s replacement, for 18 million Euros, so the figures match up.

Let's hope its sorted soon so we can have him available Tuesday.

Keith Banks
14 Posted 06/01/2008 at 18:21:42

Paul....Johan Vogel plays (played) for Real Betis...

Jeremy Benson
15 Posted 06/01/2008 at 18:21:25

I thought the rules were that you could only have two loan players at any one time....we have two at present.

Niall Clinton
16 Posted 06/01/2008 at 16:18:31

There are whispers and gossip that are just blatantly made up, and then we get constant rumours which seem to gather pace and this Fernandes line isn't going away which suggests that it's probably going to happen. I would be very pleased to see him come back as will boost the numbers and obviously the quality and would effectively be on trial again.

If the farce over Manny's propsed move last summer had anything to do with the player himself, I am 100% sure that Moyes would not even contemplate bringing him in again. I think most of us would welcome him back espeically on a loan basis as he will have to prove himself all over again. Ii's easy to forget that he only played 9 games for us in 5 months and his fitness or lack there of is one of the reasons why Koeman doesn't want to know.

I was a big fan of his when he played and was delighted at the prospect of us getting him in permanently before being gutted when it all collapsed. He has the potential to be a class player and he obviously enjoyed his time with us, so let's hope that if he does come back again that Moyes can get the best out of him and get him playing more games. If the second loan spell isn't a success then maybe we should count ourselves fortunate that we didn't spend £10 million plus on him in August.

Paul Simpson
17 Posted 06/01/2008 at 18:31:55

Keith apolgy got it wrong Koeman also want’s to cancel Valencias keepers contract as well as Albelda’s, He as told Manny to find another club, not sure if this is for football reasons or the kick off in the night club. I cant read Spanish but just took an extract from one of the Spanish sports newspapers and translated a quote from Koeman, he has questioned the attitude of Fernandes and Productivity of both him and Albelda.

Allan Hobbs
18 Posted 06/01/2008 at 18:55:42

http://www.valenciafc.co.uk/newsarticles/Fernandes4thJan.html

Ben Brown
19 Posted 06/01/2008 at 19:04:31

What’s your point Allan?

I really want us to sign Juninho Pernam. He has the best chant in the world at Lyon.

Allan Hobbs
20 Posted 06/01/2008 at 19:08:00

Theres no news anywhere about this other than whats on Reuters & AS.com (Spanish). It looks increasingly likely that it’ll happen though so it might be best to just wait.

Allan Hobbs
21 Posted 06/01/2008 at 19:09:29

Ben, my point is that it looks as though itsa going to happen, though theres no further news anywhere basically.

Ben Brown
22 Posted 06/01/2008 at 19:12:32

Allan, I got your point after I read your second post, which was unfortunately after mine. It’s almost like we’re unwittingly doing a satellite-delay type gag.

John Taylor
23 Posted 06/01/2008 at 19:16:16

what about that kid Andrei Arshavin From Zenit. He was a class act at goodison & against England with Russia. He’s got bags of pace & Technique. Could be a real gem for us after Moyes & co polish the edges i.e work ethic, defensive duties ala mikel Arteta. If he could have an impact anything like the last russian to grace the Old lady then I’d take him tomorrow. Plus by all accounts he fancies his chances in the prem, linked strongly with the skunks an am sure we’ve got more to offer him than them.

Tommy Smith
24 Posted 06/01/2008 at 19:31:14

Andri Arsehaven now that sounds like a good name, shouldn’t he sign for Arsenal

Danny Smith
25 Posted 06/01/2008 at 19:35:25

We need Manny!!!!! With the African Cup of Nations coming up we need all the quality we can get. doesnt anyone remember the way he made Fabregas and three Arsenal players look like mugs at Goodison and the goal at Man U! Need I say more!?!

If he does come back I hope we give him a warm welcome. We don't want him to feel like hes not wanted before hes started. He had a chance to play Champs League footy in Spain with a great club who wouldn't have gone? I admit the way it was done was wrong but I think youl find he didn't have a big say in it.

Mick simo
26 Posted 06/01/2008 at 20:11:53

Didn’t our communications officer Ian Ross say we are in negations with Valencia? surprised the official site haven’t confirmed it yet

Mike Burke
27 Posted 06/01/2008 at 20:16:24

I think this deal is more-or-less done and I also think that other clubs would have announced something by this point. However, you can’t blame Everton for not wanting to announce transfer dealings until they’re 100% completed... Especially after what happened last time and especially if it concerns players or agents that the club have fallen out with, i.e. Fernandes and the whole "Fernandes will be an Everton player in less than 24 hours" etc.

I expect the deal is more or less done, but Moyes doesn’t want to announce it and get savaged for dithering in the transfer market like last time! In all likelyhood Everton are keeping their mouths shut because they’ve learned from their mistakes!

Alan Clarke
28 Posted 06/01/2008 at 20:18:49

I smell a rat here. I reckon his agent’s up to his old tricks again - using Everton as an advert for another wealthier European club to buy him. Perhaps the RS will buy him when they can’t afford Macarena?

Don’t get your hopes up anybody on this one because this site will only be full of abuse for the board and manager when the Manny deal collapses again.

Also are there really no other midfielders in the world available except Fernandes? He’s decent but is he worth all this crap?

Stuart Critchley
29 Posted 06/01/2008 at 20:30:17

Manny is class! And let's face it, we need him. And yes, I think we would all like an explanation from the club or the man himself on what went wrong last August. Sign him!

Den Mason
30 Posted 06/01/2008 at 21:26:56

Perhaps we could go for Joey Barton as well and plan a mass gaol break!

Tom Campbell
31 Posted 06/01/2008 at 21:35:40

Fuck Joey Barton... hes a trouble maker....he would fuck everyting up

Tom Campbell
32 Posted 06/01/2008 at 21:37:19

And I agree with Alan Clarke.... Is he really worth all of this? I hope so...

Roy Coyne
33 Posted 06/01/2008 at 22:00:57

If we get him I am sure he will get a great reception ? are we not the nicest most forgiving fans in the prem? And Tom as he's a player who actually got me off my seat to applaud him ? something that has not happened since the 80s ? I think he's worth all the crap as you put it.

Tom Campbell
34 Posted 06/01/2008 at 22:29:44

I hope yer right...

Dutch Schaffaer
35 Posted 06/01/2008 at 22:53:48

Do we really want a player who spent the weekend in jail? Thats not the sort of character trait Moyes usually looks for.

Talented player but he pissed all over the club last summer, has flopped at his present club and now with the added jail time, I can understand why some people are asking:-

Is he worth all this crap?

If he does sign he’ll have to work hard to get my support back.

Seamus Murphy
36 Posted 06/01/2008 at 23:18:57

Didnt we idolise Duncan Ferguson Dutch? And btw has Yakubu won your support yet? You really are a changed man Dutch - You left this site for a while an ultra overly positive supporter and returned a while later as cynical and overly cautious!
Sign him up on loan - what the worst that can happen? If he proves to be trouble Moyes can freeze him out of the team without it having an effect on the rest of the team as he has done with AvdM (although i dont tthink this will happen) then ship him back to Valencia at the end of the season.
Worth a shot in my book

Connor Rohrer
37 Posted 06/01/2008 at 23:13:03

Dutch, you really do spout some shit. wasn?t Duncan Ferguson in jail? Yes he was and he?s a legend of the 90s.

Do you actually know if he pissed all over the club? If you give me some evidence I?ll believe you but I can?t see that happening. The fact of the matter is no one knows. If I was to say he didn?t fuck us off I?d be lying and if you where to say he did you?d by lying. The only person I?ve seen mention it is Alan Irvine and he was full of praise for Manny saying the third party ownership was to hard to get by and therefore he had to move on.

I?d say he was worth getting. He?s shown that he can gel into our team and he?s shown he is a good player. Not the finished article but certainly capable.

I?d say a loan is the best way to go. He has to show he?s worth a contract by putting in some solid performances. If he doesn?t then send him back.

Has he actually flopped at Valencia? He?s only made 12 appearances which is hardly enough playing time to prove yourself at a new club. Even if he has flopped its no big deal. Pienaar flopped at Dortmund and Arteta flopped at Real Sociedad and look at them. Two of our best players nowadays.

If he joins us he should get everyones support. Tommy Gravesen gets the fans support despite leaving us and so does Alan Stubbs so I dont think Manny should be any different. You're not really an easy man to please though are you. Your ridiculous comments about Yakubu still make me laugh.

Neil Pearse
38 Posted 06/01/2008 at 23:25:56

More faith in Mr Moyes Dutch! (Are you now Tony Marsh in disguise?)

We have all seen with our own eyes that Fernandes is class. He has not become useless overnight. We have also seen Moyes have outstanding success in making better midfielders of Arteta and Pienaar when their careers were floundering a little.

Some of us are quite excited about what Moyes may be able to do with Manny. Bring him on!

Stig Meacham
39 Posted 06/01/2008 at 23:00:24

Alan C,

That’s the first thing I thought! The Fat Waiter wades in with a stack of dosh at at the last minute. I wouldn’t be at all surprised. Might be happening as I write?

Another thing that wouldn’t surprise if such a thing occurs is that in some way Phil Neville and Tony Hibbert were complicit with EFCs arch-enemy David Moyes in fucking-up the non-existent deal. Then all the bizarros and hate-freaks on here could neatly bundle up all three into one easily read and responded-to screed! Here’s hoping.

Oh, and Jamie McFadden and Gravesen, as well. They’re the new villains!

Brendan George
40 Posted 06/01/2008 at 23:47:07

Latest on Manny Affair on the Net:

http://www.portugoal.net/Everton/Fernandes-Everton-Return.htm

Neil Pearse
41 Posted 06/01/2008 at 23:53:03

Stig, Gravesen and McFadden are not "the new villains". They are just not good enough for our club. One will be sent back at the end of his loan spell, and the other (hopefully) will be sold soon.

Being a committed Blue does not mean that you have to pretend that Hibbert is as good as Lescott, McFadden is as good as Pienaar, and Gravesen is as good as Fernandes. They aren’t.

Stig Meacham
42 Posted 06/01/2008 at 23:59:42

Neil, I was kidding!

It’s a poor attempt at a joke, mate :)

I’ve had enough negativity this weekend, you know?

Jonathan Bradley
43 Posted 07/01/2008 at 02:30:46

After Oldham I am less picky about where we get our midfielders from, though I would much rather see Albeda than Fernandes, but both would be acceptable - especially as its likely to be on loan, and we may end up paying less for him than we would have in the summer if Valencia are that desperate to get rid.

Neil Pearse
44 Posted 07/01/2008 at 07:41:48

Sorry Stig mate! Me too on the negativity this weekend! Let’s hit Chelsea now.

Lue Glover
45 Posted 07/01/2008 at 07:39:25

Dutch, I always try to be reasonable and accept that we all have different opinions but unless YOU KNOW THE FACTS re Manny’s transfer to Valencia and the fracas that resulted in him spending the night in a cell and I suspect that you know as much as the rest of us, then please don’t just jump to conclusions.
Only a handful of people REALLY know what went on that night in August.
IF Fernandes comes back to EFC, I believe that it will only be because he was NOT complicit in whatever deal went on. David Moyes would not take him back otherwise.
For me, it’s THAT simple.
I don’t believe that DM would risk the team spirit that we have at the club for the sake of bringing Manny back. And Dutch, you say that he would have to work hard to win your support, does that mean you would give him stick from whichever part of the ground you sit, give him a hard time every time he didnt do something to your liking? Well, I hope you don’t sit anywhere near me!

If only we could convert all the energy we spend arguing amongst ourselves into a positive force and project it onto the pitch - we would be unbeatable! My angst alone would be worth ten good tackles and a free kick on target!

Stig Meacham
46 Posted 07/01/2008 at 08:59:19

Alright Neil! Now we’re on the same page ;) So let’s deal with our humiliation, do a smash and grab at Chelsea and get on with the business!

We screwed up this weekend. Nobody’s going to say we didn’t. It was poor, it was a wake-up call, and I’d bet it won’t happen again this term.

I think we’ll do just fine on Tuesday...

Ian Tunny
47 Posted 07/01/2008 at 15:10:08

I hope I am wrong but some on here seem to be going way overboard on how good Manny is. Yes he does seem to show glimpses of real quality and a great goal against Man U but a couple of weaknesses seem to be his engine, trying to do too much, going missing, all very similar traits of James McFadden, and McFadden has scored a few more wonder goals than manny an only cost a fraction of the price. I need to see more from him, a loan would do nicely

Connor Rohrer
48 Posted 07/01/2008 at 18:09:47

Ian, its not even fair to compare Fernandes to McFadden. I agree he’s not the finished article by any means but he’s miles ahead of McFadden in terms of current and natural ability.

He does need to up his work rate without a doubt but thats part of growing into the British mentality. Arteta was exactly the same when he came and he now puts in a shift and Yakubu who was lazier than both is beggining to put in the running.

I think your wrong to say he does to much. He retains possession well and by doing this he uses his upper body strength and obviously a few skills, twists and turns. Its part of his style of play and in no way does it effect the team he plays for. We could actually do with those traits in our midfield as we lack someone who can retain possession and keep the ball when where under pressure.

I think with the more experience you get the more you get involved in games. If you actually look at our team who doesn’t go missing. Arteta? He’s invisible at away games and seems to struggle against the big four. Carsley? Carsley gets stuck in and battles but you’ll never see him asking for the ball and taking it of players therefore he doesn’t get involved technically in a game. I agree Manny should impose himself a but more but so should alot of our current team.

I’d rather take him on Loan. I’m a big fan of his but he won’t be getting away with putting in average performances. If he does we can send him back to Spain.

Ian Tunny
49 Posted 07/01/2008 at 18:57:43

I hope your right Conner but i think when McFadden first arrived (his 1st couple of games in particular) he impressed me far more than Manny and he was younger I think he was 19, but he has not progressed infact I'd say hes gone backwards. What's to say Manny wont do the same? I'd rather they start slow like Arteta and Pienaar but get better rather than start good like he and McFadden did, raise expectations and then flop. £8 million is a lot for a flop or a couple of great pieces of skill and the odd wonder goal. I'm sure if he comes he will prove me wrong, I just think people shouldn't get so excited so early.

Connor Rohrer
50 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:30:00

McFadden hasn’t progressed because he isn’t actually that talented. Thats my opinion anyway. He has shown he has a few tricks but that is about it. His first touch is poor, he lacks physical strength, he has no pace, his decision making is similar to Anichebe despite being 24/25 and he hasn’t got a position.

Fernandes has alot more potential than McFadden has and ever will have. He’s technically superior as most Europeans are to Brits, he’s alot stronger and quicker, he has an excellent passing range and hardly gives the ball away something which McFadden does frequently.

I agree with you as you have to be weary with youngsters in terms of progression. Fernandes may not progress the way he should do which is why we are supposedly taking him out on loan rather than buying. You’ve got to give him a chance to prove himself like we have with Pienaar and Arteta and hopefully he will come good. As I’ve said if not send him back to Spain and buy a better player.