ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Pienaar to play

The Official site is reporting that Pienaar will play tomorrow against Chelsea. This clears up where he is.

He is probably training as we speak. David Moyes has cited the 14-day rule. South Africa's first match is to be played 15 days after our match against Chelsea so David Moyes is well within his rights to hang on to the player until then.

Fair play to DM is what I say. With the South African FA seemingly playing hardball over this, it is nice to have a manager doing what's best for his & our club.
Graham Nolan, Dublin, Ireland Posted 07/01/2008 at 13:12:54

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Colm Kavanagh

Considering other African football associations have cut clubs some slack in allowing a number of players to remain back in Britain, playing for their clubs until a certain deadline, and the fact that the South African side, by all accounts, are not going into this tournament with as much strength as in previous years ? it all seems a tad strange the hardline attitude being applied by their management.

Stuart Mitchell
1 Posted 07/01/2008 at 13:24:37

I Just read that the 14 day rule applies to the opening of the tournament not the first S Africa game.

Fifa can block the player from playing on Tues.

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/08/01/07/SOCCER_Everton_Pienaar.html&TEAMHD=soccer

Allan Hobbs
2 Posted 07/01/2008 at 13:42:45

I cont help but feel FIFA will block him playing - if they dont then you’re gonna get loads of other clubs claiming they shoud’ve been allowed to keep player for the weekends games. Some SA players missed games yesterday.

David Johnson
3 Posted 07/01/2008 at 14:01:42

What’s happend with the Fernandes rumour? I guess no truth behind it after all.

Paul Lenehan
4 Posted 07/01/2008 at 14:06:33

Fair play to Moyesy; I hope Fifa show some common sense and allow him to play.

Erik Dols
5 Posted 07/01/2008 at 14:09:57

I’m getting visions of Pienaar playing tomorrow. We’ll win the match 0 - 3 and are set to visit Wembley for the first time this millenium. Then FIFA rules Pienaar’s appearance as illegal and the FA changes the result in a 3 - 0 victory for Chelski.

Allan Hobbs
6 Posted 07/01/2008 at 14:11:29

According to press reports in Spain & Portugal, Manny is being held back until the whole ’arrest’ affiar is cleared up. I doubt he can leave the country until thats sorted but I would expect him to be playing for us before the end of January.

Steve Linden
7 Posted 07/01/2008 at 14:33:30

Looked at the rule and it states it’s 14 days before the first game which is open to interpretation. Moyes is not the first game of the tournament but the first game played by the team. Who’s right? Who cares if he gets to play?

Martin Cutler
8 Posted 07/01/2008 at 14:40:38

If Peinaar can play that?s brilliant (we need him for sure) and if there is some greyness over the 14-day rule which allows Moyes to do this then fine but I think they are walking a fine line and I hope it doesn?t backfire on us......to my mind one would think the 14 days would apply to the start of the competition (that way it?s the same date for all players as opposed to when the different countries have their first game).
Unlike other African countries South Africa were very, very clear on what they expected and all along Moyes implied we?d be losing Pienaar.........this doesn?t give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

Stuart Mitchell
9 Posted 07/01/2008 at 14:52:15

Fifa have already come out with a statement clarifiying the rule and saying it is 14 days up to the opening game of the tournament.

Ian Turgoose
10 Posted 07/01/2008 at 15:02:43

Looks like Fifa have screwed us by clarifying that the 14 day rule applies to the first game of the tournament. Looks like we have little option but to release him.

Given that Stevie Pienaar is still here then we have actually broken the rule already (he should have been there on Sunday 6th Jan if the first game is on 20th Jan). Hope this dosent backfire.

Does anyone know what action Fifa/South Africa can take if the rule is broken?

Dave Flood
11 Posted 07/01/2008 at 15:10:17

Found the relevant FIFA doc:

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/ps_792_en-annex_ii_74.pdf

See clause f, it is totally ambiguous. However you would have thought EFC could have put in a quick call to FIFA to check long before the day he was due to fly out!

Ian Turgoose
12 Posted 07/01/2008 at 15:22:53

Well spotted Dave. The wording is totally ambiguous. But given the statement from FIFA it would be hard to argue that he should be able to play tomorrow. I think we could get away with it if we sent him over asap.

The person i really feel sorry for is Stevie P himself!! Looks like he is getting the worst of all worlds, not being able to play and the country being annoyed with him.

Eric Hardman
13 Posted 07/01/2008 at 15:28:03

Yet another Moyes cock-up, on a par with the Fernandes sagas (parts 1 and 2). Not only does he leave it until the last minute to clarify the rules (could have been done weeks ago) but now we get the worst of both worlds. Pienaar will be banned from playing and the club will be in FIFA’s bad books. Nice one David.

Ian Turgoose
14 Posted 07/01/2008 at 15:36:51

Eric, i must have missed the announcement that not only was Moyes the manager but our chief solicitor too!

If this does go bad then I don’t believe it’s Moyes to blame. As the advice would come from a legal expert within the club (I would assume) then Keith Wyness as the Chief Executive would have to take responsibility.

I still find it unbelieveable that people continue to slag off Moyes even though he has assembled our best team in 20 years.

Graham Holliday
15 Posted 07/01/2008 at 15:45:30

This seems to be the most definitive article and it clearly says ’the first match of the tournament’.

Don’t think he’s gonna be playing...

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/status%5ftransfer%5fen%5f25.pdf

John Lloyd
16 Posted 07/01/2008 at 15:45:47

Interesting debate, good research, people genuinlely concerned about a massive upcoming game & a predicament that one of our better players finds himself in......all ruined by someone, somehow managing to turn this into an attack on one of the best things ever to happen to this club Davie Moyes.
I hope when your kids/grandkids are watching our official history dvd released in 2040 that you sit thier saying that he was a disaster, a complete cockup merchant & watch them laugh thier arses off at you for being senile!!

Ian Turgoose
17 Posted 07/01/2008 at 15:58:27

Heres the possible punishment: -

"If a club refuses to release a player or neglects to do so despite the provisions
of this annex, the FIFA Players? Status Committee shall furthermore
request the Association to which the club belongs to declare any
match(es) in which the player took part to have been lost by the club
concerned. Any points thus gained by the club in question shall be forfeited.
Any match contested according to the cup system shall be regarded
as having been won by the opposing team, irrespective of the score."

So if we play him we run the risk of the match being declared lost.

Just to confuse things further its a two legged fixture so what would the scoreline be deemed as? As far as i can see we are better off not playing him rather than take a chance. If we do play him and win you can bet Chelski’s lawyers will be all over it.

Keith Glazzard
18 Posted 07/01/2008 at 16:07:55

FIFA have ordered us to release Pienaar, and he’s got to go. I don’t know what the 14 day rule is, but what EFC were saying sounded reasonable to me. The SAFA, and FIFA politics, stink.

Safe journey Steven - please come back as soon as possible and without injury.

Lee Spargo
19 Posted 07/01/2008 at 16:51:11

Surely it’s up to Pienaar himself whether he want’s to go or not? If he want’s to play in the Semi then he should tell that to South Africa and if they’re not happy with that then the ball is in their court. Surely they wouldn’t tell one of their best players not to bother turning up at all? And if they did then so what? Playing in the African Cup of Nations is a step-down from a Semi-Final between Everton and Chelsea as far as I’m concerned.

Mick Simo
20 Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:00:04

He's going; Everton have released him.

Ricardo Humphries
21 Posted 07/01/2008 at 16:54:42

It’s just been on the news here in South Africa. SAFA is really fucking up big time! I’ve read hundreds of comment in South Africa and the whole country was behind Pienaar playing for Everton tomorrow. I understand that Pareirra has already rejected Greek based Morris arriving late and he can’t go back on his decision. I think

What if Pienaar resigns from the national team, will that allow him to play for us?

Fuck the South African FA, hope Bafana comes home early!

Tommy Jones
22 Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:11:50

Just been on the radio 606 Everton have released him, he is off to ANC

Richard Porter
23 Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:06:29

From the Sky website:

An Everton spokesperson said: "Steven will be going to London today, but not to Stamford Bridge. He will be flying out from Heathrow.

"We have been contacted by Fifa and told he has to be released by us ahead of the Chelsea match."

Mick Simo
24 Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:13:31

Fifa has ordered Everton to release Steven Pienaar for international duty ending his chances of playing in Tuesday?s Carling Cup semi-final.

Stig Meacham
25 Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:19:54

Aw, hell!

It was a funny two fingers up while we were doing it. Not worth ruining the boy’s international career, though. Here’s hoping South Africa crash out early!

Kristian Boyce
26 Posted 07/01/2008 at 18:13:31

I hope we sign this guy ASAP. He has shown his commitment to this club and has put his international future on the line for wanting to play for us. Also, he’s an amazing player to top it off.

Jeremy Benson
27 Posted 07/01/2008 at 18:35:30

Personally, I have to wonder whether this was worth all the fuss. In fact, I?d go as far as to say I think it was ill conceived.

Taking on the SAFA and Fifa? And risk upsetting Pienaar, who isnt even a permanent player and who we want to woo at the season-end?

Those of you who are saying it shows Pienaar is Everton through and through - you are guessing that he even had a say in it. It could well be that he is not very happy with the situation.

Very silly in my opinion. We knew full well when we signed these players that they would be needed for the ANC. Its a bit "its my ball mister" and does not reflect EFC in a good light, in my opinion.

Stan Sheppard
28 Posted 07/01/2008 at 18:52:25

It all seems a bit pointless and very childish. Nobody was going on about it being 15 days before the first match until today. Then Moyes comes out with this bull about there being a confusion. It puts Peanuts in an awkward position and makes us look pretty stupid. Typical Moyes type move. Talk big, look small.

Steve Hili - Malta
29 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:08:05

I ve got a vision of peanuts playing, and fifa being ok with it, but with the tie balanced delicatly at 1-1 shevkenko goes by him in the box and old peanuts lazily flings his leg out...

Stig Meacham
30 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:20:48

How much ’fuss’ was there, anyways? 8 hours worth or so? Childish and talking big and acting small? I don’t think so. The manager wants to field his strongest team tomorrow. What’s the fucking problem? I’m proud he pushed back. I’d complain if he didn’t.

Jeremy Benson
31 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:37:13

You’re missing the point stig. Everton are not the only team to lose players to the ANC.....so we should stop acting as if we are.

By the way, where is your complaint from 3 days ago when we all thought Pienaar WAS going to the ANC on time?

Stig Meacham
32 Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:02:15

Well, jeremy, perhaps I’m not the one "missing the point" as you’ve so eloquently posted it.

Perhaps you are "missing the point", jeremy? As I’ve read it, the thrust of this post is based around giving our manager a clap on the back for sticking two fingers up at the ACoN, hence this quote from above: "it is nice to have a manager doing what’s best for his & our club."

jeremy, perhaps I’ve read it all wrong (wouldn’t be the first time, mate!), but I’d have to write here that it might just be that you’ve "miss(ed) the point" of Graham’s post? Who knows, jeremy? It’s open to interpretatation, I’d suppose.

Why don’t you try being passive/aggressive with people who aren’t your friends? I’m an Evertonian, and not deserving of your disrespect.

Jeremy Benson
33 Posted 08/01/2008 at 08:23:27

LOL!

Stig, I believe you said "whats the fucking problem?" in response to my post, and that of two other Evertonians. So, perhaps you need to reflect those comments back to yourself