ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

Jay Harris
1 Posted 07/01/2008 at 18:46:57

Mike, frustrated as you are but its a FIFA ruling and all clubs have to comply.

Steve Callaghan
2 Posted 07/01/2008 at 18:08:03

So the communications buffoons at Everton strike again! Daring to dispute the interpretation of Fifa's 14-day ruling on the eve of one of the biggest games in Moyes's reign. Why on earth a defiant Moyes has to appear on Sky Sports News refusing to release the lad, putting his own 'spin' on the ruling is beyond me and he looked stressed ? surely not the best preparation for tomorrow.

Don't get me wrong, I admire the manager's resolve to keep hold of his player for this important tie but to drag out via the full glare of the national media on the eve of such a big game for us is puzzling to say the least...

After today's goings on we again look a bit of a laughing stock having to back down with a hurried statement to the press. In my humble opinion I think the game against Chelsea would have been much more even without all of the African lads ? on both sides ? Chelsea look just as unsettled as us without their key players and this may have been a good leveller.

Collectively, we have known that we were to lose players for ages now ? if Moyes feels that this weakens his hand sufficiently then he should have put in place plan B weeks ago ? i.e. recruit replacement(s) ready for the event. Who knows, he might have already tried in the 'Everton Way' but today?s events make us look as though we are desparate and panicking, leading us to believe that Moyes has a game plan already in place which includes Pienaar with only 24 hours to think of another... or phone a friend?

Shaun Brennan
3 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:05:20

Heres one for you,

it’s not only the FA that look after the big four!!!!!

go figure

David Billows
4 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:07:25

Good post Steve. I’ve just emailed EFC as follows: ’Congratulations to the ’spin doctor’ at EFC who raised our hopes through Moyesy’s reported comments earlier - that Pienaar would play against Chelsea. FIFA ruling article 36:5C is very clear, not a ’grey area’ at all. Please get your act together and deal with FIFA’s application of Article 41 i.e. a fine, caution etc for failing to release the player - with dignity.

Simon Templeman
5 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:04:51

Steve, The management knew after the Arsenal game we would be missing Mickel and Ossie and must have half expected Piennar to be missing for this most important tie, they also could easily have lost Yobo (if he even turns out to be fit!) and Yakubu. So note the complete lack of relevant transfer activity. To me it smacks of our CL qualification 3 years ago where we failed to recruit just in case we lost! I acknowledge players of this quality don’t come cheap or easily at this time of year, but have we REALLY tried? Rant over, but I agree totally.
(I hope they prove us wrong tomorrow though!)

David Barks
6 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:33:45

Un-fucking-believable. Moyes tries to get one of our best players available for a big game and you attack him for it. You lot are so sad and make me sick. South Africa could easily have done what Nigeria have done and just let him play this one game instead of sitting on a training pitch.

Ian Tunny
7 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:40:29

Fuck FIFA tell them to do one take the caution and the fine, If the south African body wants to be dick-heads an FIFA want to join in let them there?s no need for their actions and its time we made a stand. Rules are meant to be brocken especially stupid ones.

Ricardo Humphries
8 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:39:48

David, the South African coach couldn’t go back on his word after forcing Greece based defender to report to camp. Had he allowed Pienaar to join up later, all hell would have broken loose in SA. Parreira was in a tricky situation, cause the whole public was behind Pienaar playing against Chelsea! Sorry guys, i think we’ll beat Chelsea tomorrow!

Ricardo Humphries
9 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:49:44

Guys, be on the lookout for South African defender Nasief Morris. He currenlty captains Greek giants Panathaniakos FC. This could be a great addition to our squad. The guys has loads of champoins league experience!

Simon Templeman
10 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:47:09

David, UN-FUCKIN-BELIEVABLE, What we are saying the powers that be should have seen this coming and dealt with it OR KEPT THEIR TRAPS SHUT! Are Chelsea, The RS,
Arse etc moaning!

Stig Meacham
11 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:46:07

Well put, David!

So we try to keep our player-of the-season for an important match, and it’s now time to unload on the manager. What the fuck?! Maybe Phil Neville had something to do with it, too? Let’s bag on him, as usual. Maybe Hibbert influenced things, too!! Let’s not miss a beat here.

Our manager was technically correct, to be fair, and that’s a lawyer’s reading (my wife!) of the rules they’ve put up on their website.

Charlie Skinley
12 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:52:28

David Barks - totally agree with you, I’m pleased we tried to pull off this little stunt, it failed but at least we tried. I certainly dont think we look a laughing stock.

In the past the boys have been at their best when they think the world are against them. An I agree with Ricardo I think we will beat them tomorrow.

COYB, I sooooo wanna go to Wembly

Simon Templeman
13 Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:14:05

Stig/Charlie,
The management, not DM personally. COYB.
Simon

David Billows
14 Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:06:29

I would have been delighted if Moyesy had struck a deal with the SAFA to play Pienaar v Chelsea. However, they were not interested, unlike the Nigerian FA over The Yak & Yobo.

Lee Heath
15 Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:15:13

What the fuck has this got to do with FIFA. There just shit arn’t they. Even the video games are shite. It should be between the club and South Africa’s FA. 14 days!!! OMG hes gonna miss one day training with them. You think if they go out early they will be blaming Pienaar for missing one day of training Beckham style? Its a joke why can’t they play their tournament in the summer like all the others do. Here’s to a first round exit for South Africa, sorry Ricardo!! COYB!!!

Charlie Skinley
16 Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:17:43

Simon - I appreciate what you are saying bout Arse, Chelski an the RS but at the end of the day these teams have the money and squad to cope with loosing players. I don’t know why but this whole thing today.... well, I just think it was a cheeky attempt nothing more an nothing less.

It even managed to get the South African manager on the blower to Moyes an I’m sure our Davey tried to talk him round. Ok even that failed but again worth a try.

Anway - bit worried bout midfield tomorrow who you think he will play? I wouldn’t be surprised if he put Baines on the left side?

David Barks
17 Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:24:41

He’s going to park the bus at Chelsea, it will be a return to the Dogs of War mentality, don’t expect to see any pretty football tomorrow. I don’t care what we do or how it looks, just get a result or at least keep it close.

ian tunny
18 Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:24:38

If England behaved like south Africa and i was in pienars situation i would just retire from international duty, i hear pienar doesnt even put it in for south Africa anyway and lets face it thyv got less chance of winning anything than England.

Charlie Skinley
19 Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:36:23

Yeah ya probably right David he’l prob try to keep it tight. Although I still think he will go out to win it becuase Chelsea could be a lot stronger in the return leg with the likes of Terry back.

Oh, I know its childish put I do hope S Africa get hammered

Simon Templeman
20 Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:28:44

Charlie AND David,
Please do not doubt my support (admittedly from home nowadays). I live amongst so many RS in Gloucester it is soo depressing for someone who spent his best years on the Gladwys Street. However Tomorrow night IS a worry but fingers crossed even though it’s without Manny!

Charlie Skinley
21 Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:44:43

Simon dont doubt ya support at all mate, I do understand where your coming from fella. Must be a nightmare living where the majority of the RS support comes from though mate! ha.

Manny, those rumours have gone quiet all of a sudden

Alan Kirwin
22 Posted 07/01/2008 at 22:43:25

How can anybody with even half a brain criticise DM for making a stand on this. We’ve already lost Arteta (wrongly) and Osman, and South Africa aren’t playing for another 15 days (as Nigeria sensibly agreed with). It never ceases to amaze me just how sad & sick some Evertonians really are (e.g. David Billows). Mr Billows - for the benefit of us all, why don’t you explain in full FIFA Article 41, just so we can see how much "dignity" we have lost. Wot a tosser.

Jay Harris
23 Posted 07/01/2008 at 22:46:05

Hey we?re all in an emotional state after Saturday and the seemingly impossible expectation that EFC might sign somebody before Tuesday.
Now we find that we?re wasting time fucking around with FIFA and press releases instead of spending time preparing for Chelsea.
I am sorry (no I am not really) but I have to say EFC couldnt organise a kid?s tea party.
I only hope the players arent as embarassed as I am.

Roy Coyne
24 Posted 07/01/2008 at 23:07:29

Lets be fair here if it had come of all the letters on here would be what a great move by Moyes, sadly it did not but was worth a try now being selfish I hope SA get knocked out quickly and I won't need consoling if Nigeria join them.

Alex May
25 Posted 07/01/2008 at 23:23:44

At the very best, FIFA’s wording is ambiguous and at the worst examples I’ve seen quoted from the document, theyhave shafted us. Pay back time for all the votes that got certain delegates into the positions they now hold at FIFA. Legally, we were right or at the very least had an arguable case.

Like all people who run sport, it seems to be run by those least able to actualty do it.

David Chait
26 Posted 08/01/2008 at 07:46:04

Being South African the only group in this saga that has annoyed me is SA.

They are being very inflexible and will undoubtedly have a disgruntled Pienaar for a few weeks - well done. SA admin does not know how to treat its most high profile players eg McCarthy had fall out after fall out and he wasn’t alone.

We’ll all have to move on and forget about it - lets hope Pienaar does and Everton. Last word - I don’t think you have to worry - the best SA can hope for is to get out of group stages. If they do it would be a surprise. Although that doesn’t help us against Chelsea.

Allan Hobbs
27 Posted 08/01/2008 at 09:02:30

The rules were put in place for EVERYONE long ago, Everton didn’t have a leg to stand on and they knew it; they just chanced their arm cos we needed Pienaar if possible.

You can’t blame anyone, blame doesn’t fix anything, in life or football - remember that.

Carlos Parerria happens to be a great coach, he won the World Cup I seem to recall.

Damian Wilde
28 Posted 08/01/2008 at 09:10:08

Allan, I couldn’t give a toss if he won the World Cup. It probably wasn’t his desicion, probably the SAFA. All that can be said on this, is that they’ve been bloody awkward. What difference would one day have made? I’m sure their whole tournament would have fallen apart had he gone tomorrow...not! I agree what was said on our website, that common sense was not used. I tell you one thing, I can’t see us being flexible if they need it in the future, sod em! Another thing is that Pienaar was desperate to play, he’ll now be at the camp in a bad mood, good for his confidence? The Nigerian FA had some common sense. Partly FIFA’s fault, they should have sorted out the football calender, how can they have this tournament now? Ridiculous.

Allan Hobbs
29 Posted 08/01/2008 at 10:04:47

Well I just wrote out a long reply and then it deleted somehow so here’s the short version.

Damian - Im not here to argue with you but the rules were laid down for all clubs stating that all players had to be there 14 days before the start of the tournament. If you let one player stay longer then all the other clubs will get arsey about it too. Some clubs had to let players leave at the weekend and miss league games. They wouldnt be happy if one player was allowed to stay simply because David Moyes/Everton say so.

I agree its stupid and one day makes no difference but as in all things, you have to draw a line somewhere. Its like being pulled over doing 80mph and saying, ’well I was only going a little bit over the limit officer’ It just doesnt work, this is about basic laws of the land.

The main point that should be raised is that the ACN is every 2 years - it should be every 4 years the same as the European Championships and the World Cup.

The reason I backed up Carlos Pareirra is because ’Zampost’ slated him saying he was a tosser. You have to look at the bigger picture as a manager and that means keeping the majority happy. If he let Pienaar stay, then he runs the risk of having disgruntled squad members. At least this way he only has one disgruntled player.

Common sense indeed.

Adam Carey
30 Posted 08/01/2008 at 10:23:15

With regards to the comment about Pienaar retiring from international football, I think that it is more an agreement between players and their respective FA’s that allows this. I’m sure that Chelsea’s Makelele wanted to retire after the last World cup but the French FA called him up anyway. FIFA then stated rules that would allow the Country to bar the player from turning out for their club team.

We are just going to have to take this on the chin. We all knew it was coming and should have allowed for it.

Tony Horne
31 Posted 08/01/2008 at 11:28:18

International football is crap yet clubs are obliged to make their players available. It stems from the days when the likes of Real Madrid refused to release Hugo Sanchez to play for Mexico unless it was a competitive game. It meant that some national sides had to play important friendlies in preparation for a major tournament without key players.

International football is crap.

John Lloyd
32 Posted 08/01/2008 at 12:36:14

Allan, you keep referring back to the rules like Monica out of friends & you are right in saying the rules would have to be followed but the fact is that, as pointed out on earlier threads, the rules were not clearly defined. So Everton had every right to ’chance thier arm’ in trying to keep a player (whose wages we pay, who’s career we may have resurected & who is absolutley itching to play!!) a chance to play in a massive game for his club a whole 15 days before his country are due to play thier first game!!!
I hate & despise FIFA and the criminal way they are organised and ran.

John Lloyd
33 Posted 08/01/2008 at 12:43:27

On another note Hobbsy, you make real sense concerning the ANC being every 4 years instead of the 2 that it is currently. Anyone with a small knowledge of african football (or common sense, for that matter) knows that the only reason it is staged every two years is because it is a guaranteed money spinner, secondary because it used to be the main event to showcase african players for european clubs!! But as this is no longer the case, with extended scouting networks & clubs looking further afield than ever before then it purley & simply down to money. Why dont FIFA get involved with that & clamp that down, and actually help the game instead of hindering it.

Damian Wilde
34 Posted 08/01/2008 at 12:31:21

Some good points Allan. They are the rules, so I suppose we can’t moan too much. Another point though, is consistency with the rules. Nigeria were sesible and let us have Yobo and Yakubu until Tuesday evening, so obviously the rules aren’t set in stone. SAFA could have said yes like Nigeria, but for whatever reasons, said no. If SAFA had said ’anyone with a mid-week game can play and join us after that, then that keeps all of the players happy. The ones who didn’t have mid-week games wouldn’t be bothered because they wouldn’t be missing out on anything. We all have rules in out jobs/organisations, but we all need to have FLEXIBILITY. If I did everything to rules and policies in my job, patients would suffer. Here’s hoping they get knocked out early!

Mike Reynolds
35 Posted 08/01/2008 at 12:54:55

Interesting that FIFA have not been so quick to act on the club v country row that concerning Barcelona’s Samuel Eto’o.