The quality just isn't there
Comments (31)
As I watched, in agony, the seemingly inevitable cock-up tonight, I wondered how much progress we are actually making as a team.
Against a vastly weakened Chelsea we were second best for 90% of the game and never at any stage played any real football. Both of Chelsea's goals came not through pressure or great play but as a result of abject marking and a schoolboy error. Yet again, against 10 men (the Anfield derby anyone) we looked like the team one man down at the key moments.
Every time we try to play the ball around, it looks like the players are shit scared and invariably over- or under-hit the simplest of passes. Most of Chelsea's best moves started with us giving the ball away under no real pressure.
Until such time as Moyes can produce a team which is comfortable under pressure, we will never make any genuine progress as a club that can regularly challenge for Europe or the cups.
I am sure the crowd effort in two weeks time will be immense but I am equally sure of two other things ? Avram Grant will be supremely confident on the basis of our display tonight; and few if any blues would put the mortgage on us winning. I desperately hope for the best but I expect another scrambled, battling, backs-to-the-wall job and hope for the best.
We will only be making real progress when we really control such games and on the basis of tonight that is still a billion years away
John Doolan,
Liverpool Posted 08/01/2008 at 22:16:12
Return to the Mail Bag
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
John Garret
Posted 09/01/2008 at 03:15:28
All I heard from the commentators and pundits last night was how badly affected Chelsea were by injuries, suspensions and international tournaments. No mention of Everton playing without their three most creative midfield players and, John, you?ve fallen for it. This tie is still winnable - it may take a superhuman effort but it was always going to be that way.
Steve Pugh
Posted 09/01/2008 at 07:56:38
Well said John G, all season we have had people saying how much better we are when Mikkey plays, and he will be back for the second leg. Secondly the players we will lose, ie Yobo and the Yak, although great players can ber replaced alot easier than Mikkey with the squad players that we have.
By the way what chance of Ossie being fit?
Alan Ryder
Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:12:12
The tie is only half way through. I don’t like this destructive self anaysis. What purpose does it serve? I am expecting an Everton win for the home leg.....no less. We can do..... it now bring on City.
John Hughes
Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:23:13
John G - I agree the tie is still winnable but please be objective. The Sky commentator and Alan Smith made much of Everton being without Arteta, Pinnear and indeed Osman. In fact Smith referred to them as "the minigems". I thought we did OK last night but I would ask why we ended up defending so deep against 10 men (I don?t care how good they are)and why Moyes didn?t bring on fresh legs long before he did.Anyway, roll on the 23rd Jan!
Mark Perry
Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:34:45
WTF - If before the game people had said we would lose by 1 goal and score an away goal we would of taken it. We were playing Chelsea at home FFS what did we expect to thrash them 6-0?! No we lost a narrow match, we still have an away goal and just need to beat them 1-0 over 120 mins or by 2 goals in 90.
We can do this, yes we will miss Yak and co but the defence will be unaffected with Jag and Jo with Hibert and Baines, We will have Arteta, and hopefully Ossie back along with Tiny and Cars in Midfield and we have the choice of AJ, Big Vic, Faddy up front. Chelski will still be without their ACN players and maybe Lamps and deffinatly Terry.
We will also have home advantage. We just have to make it count. It really pisses me off that we lose against Man U and Arse and Chelski and people start donning the Sack Cloth and Ashes and saying how far we havent come and how shit we are. We are 6th in the Prem, in the knockout stages of the Euro’s and STILL in the semi final of the Carling Cup with a realistic chance of progressing - we are talking about winning by 1 goal FFS.
To the dommsayers I say Cheer on the team and keep your negativity to yourselves - we dont need it, cant use it, and wont listen to it.
Jonathan Tasker
Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:48:07
John; you have it absolutely correct; yesterday was desperate. Moyes should have gone for it last night and tried to win but we were just not good enough, even against a 10 man Chelsea reserve team. We will huff and puff in the 2nd leg but Chelsea will be re-inforced by then and we will be without the Nigerians. When will Moyes understand how substituions work? We deserved nothing last night. Actually, the tie should have been over by half time.
Tom Abdy
Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:50:46
So, we were about 2 minutes away from getting a draw at Stamford Bridge with an away goal to boot and with a gretaly weakened midfield. I was as gutted as the next man with the way we conceded and I thought that Howard should have come for the cross as it seemed to be in the air for ages, but hey, all we have to do now is win 1-0 at Goodison which is infinitely plausible. We’ll have Arteta back and, despite loosing the Yak and Jo, I think we have sufficient cover in those areas to pull through. In short, COYB.
Steve Lyth
Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:52:43
Got to agree with Marks assesment there, Chelsea were simply awsome all night and over the balance of play deserved to win.
Surely we have to be impressed by our own display given the choices Moyes was faced with and the stanadard of the ooposition (Unlike Saturday) ? We have it all to do in the second game but lets make the atmosphere special and who knows.
Stephen Boileau
Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:57:45
Mark P is spot on. I (and most people) would have taken 2-1 at the start of the game. Lets be honest did we really expect to beat Chelsea at home? They havent lost there for 60 odd games FFS against better sides than us. The score makes no difference we still need to score to win the tie, as we would have had to do at 1-1. Lets get Goodison rocking and put the sh*ts up this lot, this tie is definately winable.
Nick Coyne
Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:01:05
John Doolan, I’m with you pal. I appreciate entirely what Messers Perry and Abdy are saying, but the recent evidence is that we are still a considerable distance from the Top Four, even, and it pains me to say it, a good distance away from the Shite.
The best teams take full advantage of any luck that comes their way. We haven’t and didn’t. United kept going and going at Old Trafford and got a touch of luck, whilst Arsenal took full advantage of the calamitous defending on show in the second 45 at Goodison.
Mikel’s sending off was harsh (personally I believe Carvalho and Sidwell were much more guilty of recklessness) but yet we couldn’t put an already weakened team to the sword. Why, with a one man advantage, are we the team on the back foot for the majority of the last 10 minutes?
I agree totally that we had a weakened team ourselves and for not one second do I point the finger at Moyes (with the exception of maybe using AJ in the hole 1st half instead of on the right wing, basically rendering Cahill useless), but in order to develop into challengers every team needs luck. I can’t help thinking however, that every time we get some in a big game, we don’t take full advantage and ultimately end up making a mess of things.
Go on Perry, get the knives out!!
Patty Beesley
Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:23:34
Will everyone remember just how much the Chelsea team cost in comparison to our team and also that they have not been beaten at Stamford Bridge for 54 games!! Even the mightly Shite got beaten there 2 - 0. I think we have a bunch of lads to be proud of.
Don?t give up guys - we can still pull this off, albeit we will be so anxious to score a goal at Goodison that we might leave oruselves wide open.
I thought the lads did well last night and Lescott was outstanding. He is not to blame for that second goal.
You could see some of our players were absolutely kinackered notably Cahill who was not his usual self - how I would have loved to see him punch that corner flag.! My only criticism is that we should have rang some changes sooner than we did bringing on Victor for instance a lot earlier.
Paul Lenehan
Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:33:26
look at that Chelsea midfield and tell me it was weak! Two full England internationals, a french international, Nigerian international and the German captain. All with plenty of caps. Add to that a guy up front who has scored more than 100 goals for Bayern Munich. So yes they were missing excellant players but the team they put out was still worth millions.
My point is we are making progess but this progress is judged against the Spurs and Villas of this world and not the top 4. And to those that say this is accepting mediocrity I would say it is not, but it certainly is accepting reality. And the reality we don’t have the money of the top four and therefore don’t have the depth.
Maybe this will change over the next 3 -4 years but at present we are still in the top end of the middle tier and thats the reality of it all.
Alan Rycroft
Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:38:19
I agree with the optimists. I think the team deserve every accolade aginst a clearly superior international star outfit on their own turf. Shame about the late goal but with a bit more luck Evers could even have won (Faddy hitting the post!). It is going to be hard very hard to pull it off second leg and then it would be Arse! So winning the Carling Cup would really be a miracle. I for one think the Uefa cup a more realistic option as there is no Plastic Platinum foursome dominating things and making it real boring now, same old trots winning everything and unfair advantage of oodles of cash. If they put a cap on the number of foreign palyers as they should then Chelski would really be in the ditch. Still, miracles happen. I am a believer though the rational evidence well...Let’s beat them at Goodie with a bit of luck...
Harj Badial
Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:48:10
John I think your out of order....we had almost a full midfield missing - so to go to SB and be narrowly beaten 2-1 is not bad at all. Why are people always going against their team? We should all stick together....EFC has made great strides in closing the Gap....its improving slowly and even if we don?t make Final...I will still be proud of our teams performance....yes Chelsea had players out but they still had a very strong team out...only upfront they lacked a little quality. I think this teams true potential will be evident next season....whatever this season brings is a bonus. At the beggining of the season we would have all settled for a season that we have had so far...dont forget were still in UEFA cup and could still pinch top 4 ...so were still in the mix....i?m proudly wearing mt Everton top. COYB.
Phil Martin
Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:57:08
Were Everton ever going to make it to the final the easy way?
I think most will have taken a 2-1 defeat meaning we only need to win 1-0 aet. Yes it puts the pressure on us for the 2nd leg but I really dont know how the players would have dealt with a 1-1 draw. I think in the 2nd leg they wouyldnt have known wether or attack or defend on a 1-1 draw. At least now the players know they need to win. Its an optimistic approach but we always realised we had to win at home to go through against a side like Chelsea
Paul Coleman
Posted 09/01/2008 at 10:08:32
If League 1 Oldham can beat us 1-0, then I am certain we can beat Chelsea by the same scoreline at Goodison Park.
Its a funny old game!
Brian Noble
Posted 09/01/2008 at 10:22:37
John,you really are a brave man!Didn’t you know that a anyone who believes that Moyes is less than stellar is an idiot and a traitor!We are all expected to accept the serial defeats by the Big Boys as our lot in life-but just look what we did to Sunderland!
After keeping players in reserve for this game,was I alone expecting a more positive and determined approach?For me ,Moyes has just one more chance to show he has matured from the hapless tactician he was for ’one-offs’at Preston.Unless he shows his first spark of genius in his second-leg team selection,tactics and substitutions,this is yet another trophy we can kiss goodbye!
Paul Lenehan
Posted 09/01/2008 at 10:48:56
Brian, Do you think we should be beating Chelsea at Stamford Bridge when the gulf in class is so evident? Do you really believe player for player we match them or any of the other top four in quality? Im sorry lads and I might get pasted for this, but it is not accepting medicority or blindly backing Moyes by saying we are not as good as the top four. We don’t have the money or the depth in quality. This is reality. Now I see planty of progress and we are moving tom closing the gap. But we are still some way short. I can’t see with the players available to him how Moyes can to criticised.
Paul Lenehan
Posted 09/01/2008 at 11:10:43
And when I say Moyes should not be criticised I don’t mean ever (of course he should be criticised when he gets it wrong and I accept he does get it wrong sometimes), but I do mean he can’t be criticised for last night.
Chris Keightley
Posted 09/01/2008 at 11:37:02
Christ there are so many negatives i feel as i should slit my wrists, ffs 2-1 with a return leg at home in a semi, thanks alot see you at our gaff for round 2, they won just !!! at home, we only need to win just!! at home, and we are through to wembley, at the start of the season if anyone had said you would be 1-0 away from a final over 90 mins, i would have wripped there hands off, also out of all the teams in the prem ableit arsenal, we are nailed on to win 1-0, grow up enjoy the return leg and drop this doom and gloom and pay respect to the lads who have kept this tie wide open, for all us everton die hards, and the neutrals.
Dave Bandell
Posted 09/01/2008 at 12:34:27
Forgetting the circumstances of last nights defeat for a minute would all the doom mongers out there take a 2-1 defeat away from home in the semi final of the Eufa cup? Knowing we will have a full house for the return leg for a night game would leave me very confident of progressing as I am for the return against Chelsea.
To put things in to perspective we were always going to have to win one of the legs so why cant we win at goodison and add another famous night to our history.
Have faith!!!!
Dave Dawson
Posted 09/01/2008 at 12:13:36
What dissapoints me most is that we didn’t grab the game by the scruff of its neck when Chelsea lost Mikel. We should have built wave after wave of attack, created several chances and put Chelsea under extreme pressure - instead Chelsea hardley broke into a sweat - we missed a golden opportunity last night (Chelsea got out of jail) and the manager and players must take a hard long look at the that second half performance and learn from it.
Before kick off losing 2-1 would have been a reasonable result, but not after playing against 10 men for 40 minutes!
There are plenty of positives this season, but last night was poor. I was annoyed that Cahill and Neville were played out of position last night, for me Johnson should have filled Artetas position and Neville Osmans - Moyes tinkered too much last night and against Oldham. What’s wrong with Baines or Valente, I want to see Lescott and Yobo at CB, not Jags.
Apologies for the outburst but and negativity but I had to get it of my chest.
Sean Allinson
Posted 09/01/2008 at 12:58:49
How anyone can make a negative assessment of the manager from last nights game beggars belief. We know we were playing a depleted team but there’s depleted teams and depleted teams. Any one of their midfield would find a place in our first team. We had to mend and make do, and Moyes played a blinder. Not one of the players last night could put their foot on the ball. It just isn’t in their armery. Neville, Carsley, Cahill and Mcfadden should all be doing their bit at retaining the posession, but against superior opposition they couldn’t hack it. That’s not Moyes fault. That’s just bad luck with availability. Surrendering the ball so much meant that our only option was to defend as well as we could, it was aleays going to be the case, and for the team to be inches away from an incredible result is laudible. We are not that far behind the Big Four, maybe one or two players. We beat Arsenal and Liverpool last season and drew at Stanford Bridge. And we have a better team now. Next Season ! Yippee!
Chris Perry
Posted 09/01/2008 at 13:07:11
I cannot blieve I am reading some of these comments! A large number of you are what I waould class as two faced, fickle, followers, meglamaniacs. How do I draw this conclusion? simple. Many of you were on here weeks a go bleating on how this was the best team since the 80?s, how were were on the charge on 4 fronts, how Jagielka, Hibberts etc would be good cover for Yobo. Wake up and smell the coffe,e! At least I am consistent, may be negative but habve good reason to be. This Team is not a good Team, we huff and puff against teams on similar points to us, struggle against the top 4 and play ok against lower opposition ( exception being Oldham ). I am Everton through and through, but also realistic and luck enough to be brought up on the teams from the 80?s. This bunch would struggle to warm the bench, yes Arteta included he is too lightweight and inconsistent. This season is not a measure of how good we are in the leauge, but more of how poor soem of the other teams have been, but are improving e.g. Spurs. I do not think we will loose again to Chelsea, not at home and not with our excellent support, will we win? not sure, we need to be better than last night if we are to. Sorry to all you experts and arm chair fans but Jagielka is not good enough, Neville is not good enough, hibbert is not good enough. We need to buy big in this window we need 2 defenders, 2 or 3 midfielders and a keeper. What will we sign, aprt from Gosling expect loan signings ( thats ambition for you ). Lets be totally honest we have one oppourtunity fpr silverware this season, Europe, nothing else, is this really our best season since the 80?s, you are not remembered for getting to the semi final, etc. Its all about winning and bridging the gap, and as seen over the last month or so its some fucking gap.
Terry Maddock
Posted 09/01/2008 at 13:06:36
Dave Dawson..."I want to see Lescott and Yobo at CB, not Jags.".....What game did you watch? Jags was faultless at centre half and lescott was MOM before his oggy,..Once again glad DM is the manager and not you idiots and doom mongers..Chelsea had a £100 milion
team on display and it took an oggy for them to go 2-1 up in injury time of what is the 1st half..they are unbeaten in 55 games at home now.....( two of them draws against us).. and we will have a better balanced and more creative team out for the return leg in front of 40,000 blues........tell me ma , me ma
Dave Dawson
Posted 09/01/2008 at 13:23:25
Terry, Jags had a reasonable game last night but is far from faultless for me (against Arsenal he was poor) and I’d prefer to see Lescott in HIS preferred position which CB. Ok Lescott had a decent game last night (prior to the oggy) and gets forward well but he lacked a quality finish and cross last night in 2 wonderful goal scoring opportunities - I don’t want us to be using one of our best playera as a utility man!
All these excuses about CHelsea being unbeaten in 55 games is complete b*ll*cks, they were without Drogba, Terry, Lampard, Essien, Kalou, Cech etc last night and played with 10 men for almost a half.
VIlla got a draw at Chelsea when they played with 10 against 11 men for a the majority of a half!
I’ve just perused a chelsea fans forum - the general consensus is that Everton were Pathetic last night!
Mark Perry
Posted 09/01/2008 at 13:51:53
Well if they think we were so pathetic so much the better - it will make them more complacent when they visit us!
WE have to beat Chelski at home simple as. We planned on winning at GP anyway didnt we? And that hasnt changed.
The fact they had so much posession and we found it hard to create wave aftyer wave of attacks is that we had a midfiled that lacked creativity - Nev on the right for example!
When we have Arteta and Ossy back maybe someone new then we will have the tools to open Chelski up. With 40,000 chearing on we have a chance to win this 1-0 which is what we need.
Jonathan Tasker
Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:25:13
Conventional wisdom has it that it a draw in the away leg is a good result; I didn't have that view about last night, sensing that we had to go for it last night against a Chelsea side that will be considerably stronger in the second leg. I thought we were very poor last night and, once again, Moyes showed he lacks tactical accumen in the use of substitutes. Written in the heat of the moment but I can see the season imploding . There is more chance of me being the next US President that us getting to Wembley.
Mark Perry
Posted 09/01/2008 at 14:42:37
Legaly unless you were born in the US you have no chance of being President. Or if you cry at your own election rally
Everton have to win a football match at home.
Think I fancy our chances more than yours - especialy with Arteta back.
Colin OKeeffe
Posted 09/01/2008 at 14:13:16
In response to the post by John, I agree that last night was undoubtedly a reality check in terms of our progress in closing the gap on a top four giant. The relative difference in quality between a weakened second tier premiership club and a weakened top four team was stark, when there was 11 versus 11. Everton looked ill at ease in midfield, rarely holding possession for significant lengths of time. The lack of a midfield playmaker and the use of Phil Neville in a central role continues to be a massive hinderance when we are missing the likes of Osman, Arteta and Piennar. Also, to me, Cahill looks largely ineffective when part of a midfield 4 compared to when playing in the hole behind the striker in a 4-5-1. Bearing in mind these deficiencies, a 2-1 defeat is an acceptable result. However, to have chance of winning the tie I believe Moyes must employ individuals in the positions that best suit them. That means reverting Neville to full back, playing 4-5-1 with Cahill free to roam as an auxillary striker and either playing Gravesen or buying someone to play in central midfield who actually is a central midfielder. Doesn’t seem like rocket science to me but I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
sam morrison
Posted 09/01/2008 at 16:47:04
wasn’t Graveson dreadful against Oldham though?
© ToffeeWeb
1 Posted 09/01/2008 at 03:15:28