The Mail Bag
Goalkeeper and clean sheets
Comments (28)
I said on here after Saturday that we need a keeper in this transfer window. Howard may well be our number 1 (because Wessels is hopless and Ruddy too young) but he is no Nigel Martyn. That ball should have been his-the height it went up in the air in the box.
He seems afraid to comunicate with Lescott sometimes and doesn't command his box. Remember Larissa in the Uefa Cup when he bowled the ball out to Lescott despite him being closed down resulting in Lescott being robbed of possession and them scoring.
Right now Howard as no pressure on his position in the team and just how many clean sheets as he actually kept this season?
That is four defeats now since December 23rd so City at home on Saturday is a must win game or as good a run we were on before Christmas could easily become a struggle to salvage the second half of the season if we are not careful.
Colin Hughes, Posted 08/01/2008 at 22:50:11
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Peter Murphy
2 Posted 09/01/2008 at 02:13:57
2 Posted 09/01/2008 at 02:13:57
Tim should have taken the cross, it was on the six yard line, but he’s still the best keeper we’ve had for a while. Turner deserves another chance, His mistake against the Mancs was bad, but he’s good enough to be second choice. Sheff Wed fans loved him. Tim has always been a little too happy to stay on his line, but he’s still a very good keeper.
Glen Strachan
3 Posted 09/01/2008 at 02:45:31
3 Posted 09/01/2008 at 02:45:31
Spot on , Colin.
Sooner the better or this problem could come back to bite our hopes of a Premier top ten place.
Sooner the better or this problem could come back to bite our hopes of a Premier top ten place.
Steve Bapt
4 Posted 09/01/2008 at 02:58:11
4 Posted 09/01/2008 at 02:58:11
The knock that I had for Howard was that he came out too far. Matt Taylor, Drogba and Lampard 3-2 at Goodison. This time it?s his ball and Lescott should have shielded SWP. A galant effort but in the end made us look like a coca-cola team.
Either there?s a gem on the training ground waiting to be found or we badly need a spark from the transfer window. Even though we held him in check, the thought of Anelka in the 2nd Leg could be a heavy task.
Either there?s a gem on the training ground waiting to be found or we badly need a spark from the transfer window. Even though we held him in check, the thought of Anelka in the 2nd Leg could be a heavy task.
Kieran Kinsella
5 Posted 09/01/2008 at 03:16:25
5 Posted 09/01/2008 at 03:16:25
Howard has been giving me cause for concern for some time with his seeming inability to keep a clean sheet. Wessels was the first person to keep one this season for us which says a lot. Howard reminds me of Richard Wright when even though he was fairly good he always conceded a goal. As time passed for Wright one become two and two became three etc etc. Hopefully Howard will get his shit together and if not we may have to bring back Espen Baardsen or Bobby Mimms for a laugh.
Lyndon Lloyd
Editorial Team
6 Posted 09/01/2008 at 05:38:01
Editorial Team
6 Posted 09/01/2008 at 05:38:01
To be fair to Tim Howard, Ballack?s ball was out of his reach and, having watched it again, I don?t think he?d have got to it even if he tried. It was just one of those things. Lescott probably thought initially that Howard could and would claim it and then figured he?d back-head it away not knowing that SWP was behind him. It?s SWP?s momentum that pushes Lescott towards the bal and causes him to head it into his own net.
You can?t really tell that well from this sequence of stills but it shows how high and far the trajectory of the ball was from Howard.
You can?t really tell that well from this sequence of stills but it shows how high and far the trajectory of the ball was from Howard.
Craig Ashford
7 Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:45:17
7 Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:45:17
We need another Phil Neville!!
I totally agree Steve, a big of pressure on his position would help him batten down the hatches. Look at our forwards, the Yak knows if he slips up there are two internationals more than viying for his place! As it stands Howard walks into the 1st team selection.
I totally agree Steve, a big of pressure on his position would help him batten down the hatches. Look at our forwards, the Yak knows if he slips up there are two internationals more than viying for his place! As it stands Howard walks into the 1st team selection.
Shaun Brennan
8 Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:57:29
8 Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:57:29
A new goalie. Get real. Ok while we are at it, shall we get rid of Yobo (prone to mistakes) too?
John Welsby
9 Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:55:05
9 Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:55:05
Howard makes toomany mistakes in general. Apart from not claiming the ball for the 2nd goal slast night (if the 6 yard bos isn?t the keeper?s domain then I don?t know what is), he messed up against Larissa and then when we were 2-1 down against Arsenal with everything to play for he failed to clear the ball (Yobo obviously left it for him otherwise what was Howard doing so far out of his goal?).
He?s a nice guy but cannot communicate to his defenders and it?s costing us.
Remember Sir Alex dropping Leighton for the FA Cup final replay? Big decisions win trophies
He?s a nice guy but cannot communicate to his defenders and it?s costing us.
Remember Sir Alex dropping Leighton for the FA Cup final replay? Big decisions win trophies
Andrew Mahon
10 Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:51:32
10 Posted 09/01/2008 at 08:51:32
Tim Howard has the makings of becoming a very good goalkeeper but he is not there yet. He is 28 yrs old and has another 10 years to become a Goodison legend but he needs some better coaching. He is a very good shot stopper but frequently his weight distribution stops him from reacting. Take the 2nd goal last night - ignore for a moment the argument that he should have come out for the cross - when the ball passed him on the line it was no more that 3 feet from him and not very fast. He could not react because he was leaning backwards and flat on his feet. No sarcastic laughs please but dance and martial arts training would be of immense help to his balance distribution.
Secondly, his confidence is fragile coming off his line and his defenders are now showing signs of uncertainty i.e. Arsenal 3rd and 2nd last night, Lescott certainly expected him to come for it last night. Howard has to learn consistency and has to command his 6 yd box. But he does not need to sweep outside his 18 yd box - by all means stay on your line for long balls and the defenders know what to do or become a sweeper as Lehman or Van der Sar. You do not need a sweeper with Yobos pace but probably do without it.
Tim had created a solid understanding with his defenders since he has been here and that has clearly shown with many clean sheets. I just think he has lost his way somewhat in recent weeks and that must change if we are to maintain our challenge.
Nev still about? ? although the dancing may be out!
Still think we can beat Chelsea at home.
Secondly, his confidence is fragile coming off his line and his defenders are now showing signs of uncertainty i.e. Arsenal 3rd and 2nd last night, Lescott certainly expected him to come for it last night. Howard has to learn consistency and has to command his 6 yd box. But he does not need to sweep outside his 18 yd box - by all means stay on your line for long balls and the defenders know what to do or become a sweeper as Lehman or Van der Sar. You do not need a sweeper with Yobos pace but probably do without it.
Tim had created a solid understanding with his defenders since he has been here and that has clearly shown with many clean sheets. I just think he has lost his way somewhat in recent weeks and that must change if we are to maintain our challenge.
Nev still about? ? although the dancing may be out!
Still think we can beat Chelsea at home.
Craig Ashford
11 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:13:42
11 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:13:42
Correction to my above comment!!
(Cant believe i omitted such a error)
OR Nville Southall prehaps, cant see Phil doing too great in goals!!!!!!!
(Cant believe i omitted such a error)
OR Nville Southall prehaps, cant see Phil doing too great in goals!!!!!!!
Andrew Fletcher
12 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:13:36
12 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:13:36
I have said it before and Lyndon’s pictures prove it. The ballw asnt Howards to take, if he had he wouldnt have got near it and then we would have been slating him for coming out Robinson style and flapping.
Who are you going to get in ?
Actually, come to mention in Cudicini wouldnt be a bad shout.
Who are you going to get in ?
Actually, come to mention in Cudicini wouldnt be a bad shout.
Stan Sheppard
13 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:06:11
13 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:06:11
Shaun Brennan is absolutely right. I can remember Joey dropping two or threee clangers of his own last night. Tims mistakes have come to the fore recently but ithasn’t been that long (a few weeks) since people on these pages heralded him as the best since Southal.
We didn’t play great last night, McFadden in particular continues to frustrate. (bar him hitting the post)
All in all 2-1 away with a poor performance gives us a fighting chance. We were very unlucky last year to lose in the home league game so lets get behind the team for the 2nd leg.
We didn’t play great last night, McFadden in particular continues to frustrate. (bar him hitting the post)
All in all 2-1 away with a poor performance gives us a fighting chance. We were very unlucky last year to lose in the home league game so lets get behind the team for the 2nd leg.
John Welsby
14 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:27:58
14 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:27:58
Andrew Fletcher, we can all see the pictures above - are you really telling me Howard, who can?t be much shorter than Lescott and is certainly taller with his arms up, couldn?t have at least have come and punched the ball away?
What?s the worst that would have happened if he punched it wide? They get the ball back in the box and score? Well they scored ANYWAY!!!
The goal was poor from numerous points of view - Ballack should have had more pressure on him and Lescott should have done better - I?m sure everyone was tired by then BUT it?s irrefutable that Howard could and should have either a) punched b) collected or c) been on his toes to make the save. Andrew Mahon is right - his weight distribution was all wrong and he was flat footed. His presence in that moment was of no help
What?s the worst that would have happened if he punched it wide? They get the ball back in the box and score? Well they scored ANYWAY!!!
The goal was poor from numerous points of view - Ballack should have had more pressure on him and Lescott should have done better - I?m sure everyone was tired by then BUT it?s irrefutable that Howard could and should have either a) punched b) collected or c) been on his toes to make the save. Andrew Mahon is right - his weight distribution was all wrong and he was flat footed. His presence in that moment was of no help
Harj Badial
15 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:57:12
15 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:57:12
Guy?s its happened...lets hope Lescott and Howard learn from this...we are all quick to criticise..these things happen. Howard has been brilliant for the last season and a half, and Lescott was the best player on the pitch yesterday....so lets just look forward to the next game...I hope we dont lose focus on the league - man city will be real tough but we need to win to keep in touch. COYB
Paul Sherlock
16 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:59:14
16 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:59:14
Anelka will be cup tied for the second leg or has nobody noticed that?
Brian Waring
17 Posted 09/01/2008 at 10:09:36
17 Posted 09/01/2008 at 10:09:36
Paul,I think you will find that Anelka would be eligible to play against us.He wasn’t in the Bolton squad for their game against Fulham,and against Man City(who knockerd Bolton out),he was out injured with a thigh strain.So he hasn’t played in the Carling cup for Bolton.
Jay Harris
18 Posted 09/01/2008 at 11:34:01
18 Posted 09/01/2008 at 11:34:01
Spot on Brian.I was going to make the same point.I dont fear Anelka as much as the existing Chelsea players who seem more up for it than us.Tiredness and shortage of numbers is our biggest threat.
John Welsby
19 Posted 09/01/2008 at 10:42:49
19 Posted 09/01/2008 at 10:42:49
Harj,
I appreciate what you?re saying and it?s true. And it?s also true that we have a 2nd leg to come.
BUT, 1-1 with an away goal gives us the advantage if it finishes all square at 0-0 at Goodison. Now if it?s 0-0 at Goodison they have the advantage.
It?s not just strikers that win games but goalkeepers too. Look at Wenger - Lehman made 2/3 mistakes so now he?s warming the bench. Are you saying that we should stick with Howard until he costs us again?
Why do you think Man U got rid of him??
I appreciate what you?re saying and it?s true. And it?s also true that we have a 2nd leg to come.
BUT, 1-1 with an away goal gives us the advantage if it finishes all square at 0-0 at Goodison. Now if it?s 0-0 at Goodison they have the advantage.
It?s not just strikers that win games but goalkeepers too. Look at Wenger - Lehman made 2/3 mistakes so now he?s warming the bench. Are you saying that we should stick with Howard until he costs us again?
Why do you think Man U got rid of him??
Neil McKinney
20 Posted 09/01/2008 at 12:15:03
20 Posted 09/01/2008 at 12:15:03
Come on Karneet, you can’t just get rid of evry player who makes an error. The "mistake" that Howard made last night was a small blip on an otherwise excellent showing since he joined us on loan. Please don’t try and compare what Tim has done to the horrific blunders of Lehman, that’s bollox.
I’m glad you aren’t in charge of the team, there would be nobody left. You wouldn’t like it if you were sacked from your job the first time you made a little error. That’s the problem with being a goalkeeper, everybody remembers the one or two mistakes that you make in a season and conveniently forget the many saves.
Do you play in goal Karneet?
I’m glad you aren’t in charge of the team, there would be nobody left. You wouldn’t like it if you were sacked from your job the first time you made a little error. That’s the problem with being a goalkeeper, everybody remembers the one or two mistakes that you make in a season and conveniently forget the many saves.
Do you play in goal Karneet?
John Welsby
21 Posted 09/01/2008 at 12:42:43
21 Posted 09/01/2008 at 12:42:43
Hi Neil,
Look, I?m sure Tim would be a cracking stand in keeper but for me he?s not up to the no. 1 position. He?s short for a keeper (gets lobbed easily e.g. Pompey last season - Matt Taylor or Drogba last season at Goodison) and he doens?t command his area well enough.
He does have great agility and good shot stopping but he doesn?t dominate the 18 yard area and effectively say ?this is my territory?.
I don?t play in goal - not sur ethe relevance of it?
All I?m saying is that when a keeper makes 1 mistake you say ?fair enough?. 2 mistakes you say ?okay it happens?. But when you get 3 mistakes within a few months that lead to goals (i,e. Larissa; Arsenal home 3rd goal and last night), where do you draw the line? Do we wait for another mistake or 2?
Paul Robsinson would be an excellent keeper if it wasn?t for his mistakes. So would have Richard Wright. All I?m asking is, where do you draw the line? If he messes up in the 2nd leg of the semi what then?
Look, I hope I?m wrong - maybe I?m still tender cos I?m so so gutted about last night but there?s no doubt Lescott hesitated cos he thought that his mate Howard would help him out
Look, I?m sure Tim would be a cracking stand in keeper but for me he?s not up to the no. 1 position. He?s short for a keeper (gets lobbed easily e.g. Pompey last season - Matt Taylor or Drogba last season at Goodison) and he doens?t command his area well enough.
He does have great agility and good shot stopping but he doesn?t dominate the 18 yard area and effectively say ?this is my territory?.
I don?t play in goal - not sur ethe relevance of it?
All I?m saying is that when a keeper makes 1 mistake you say ?fair enough?. 2 mistakes you say ?okay it happens?. But when you get 3 mistakes within a few months that lead to goals (i,e. Larissa; Arsenal home 3rd goal and last night), where do you draw the line? Do we wait for another mistake or 2?
Paul Robsinson would be an excellent keeper if it wasn?t for his mistakes. So would have Richard Wright. All I?m asking is, where do you draw the line? If he messes up in the 2nd leg of the semi what then?
Look, I hope I?m wrong - maybe I?m still tender cos I?m so so gutted about last night but there?s no doubt Lescott hesitated cos he thought that his mate Howard would help him out
Lorcan Walsh
22 Posted 09/01/2008 at 13:31:55
22 Posted 09/01/2008 at 13:31:55
What about Thomas Sørensen who is itching to leave Villa?
Mark Stone
23 Posted 09/01/2008 at 13:31:39
23 Posted 09/01/2008 at 13:31:39
4 defeats since 23/12 maybe but put some perspective on it. It was bad to get beat by Oldham but it’s the FA cup and shit like that happens. But otherwise we got beat by Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea. Does that really mean we’re in a crisis? I’m not saying we shouldn’t be disappointed not to get anything but to be honest we’ve given all three a good run for their money (scoreline against arsenal doesn’t represent the match) and we’re still a good team getting better.
Tony Williams
24 Posted 09/01/2008 at 13:52:25
24 Posted 09/01/2008 at 13:52:25
Bloody Hell Mark, are you a mind reading demon or something. You post is pretty much word for word what I was thinking when reading the posts.
Too right I am dissapointed that we have lost 4 in 6, furious with the Oldham game but did any Evertonian seriously expect us to beat ManUre, Arsenil and Chelski?
There was a post a week or so ago talking about some perspective with regards to our unbeaten run but I can guarrantee you the author of that article will not have the same "perspective" when discussing the "4 in 6" losses.
Too right I am dissapointed that we have lost 4 in 6, furious with the Oldham game but did any Evertonian seriously expect us to beat ManUre, Arsenil and Chelski?
There was a post a week or so ago talking about some perspective with regards to our unbeaten run but I can guarrantee you the author of that article will not have the same "perspective" when discussing the "4 in 6" losses.
John Welsby
25 Posted 09/01/2008 at 14:04:12
25 Posted 09/01/2008 at 14:04:12
HI Mark, Tony,
I don?t think anyone is saying losing perspective - indeed it?s a debate about whether our keeper is ?up to it? or not - that?s it!
I don?t think anyone is saying losing perspective - indeed it?s a debate about whether our keeper is ?up to it? or not - that?s it!
Mark Welsh
26 Posted 09/01/2008 at 14:12:25
26 Posted 09/01/2008 at 14:12:25
I can’t belive you are slating Tim Howard.
He has been awesome for us these past couple of seasons, and really settled the goalkeeping dilemma we had since Nigel Martyn retired (and he was only a stopgap remember?).
I agree that the fact we are leaking goals is a concern especially when you remember the way Moyes started out (remember all those 1-0s?), but the defence and midfield must also take responsibiilty for that.
Howard is nowhere near the calamity that Richard Wright was. He is penetrable (few keepers aren’t - who mentioned Sorensen and Cudicini?), but I haven’t seen him directly contribute to goals through blatant errors as Wright did.
We need to get the midfield sorted. The ball bypasses midfield at the moment and under enough pressure the ball will inevitably get through.
He has been awesome for us these past couple of seasons, and really settled the goalkeeping dilemma we had since Nigel Martyn retired (and he was only a stopgap remember?).
I agree that the fact we are leaking goals is a concern especially when you remember the way Moyes started out (remember all those 1-0s?), but the defence and midfield must also take responsibiilty for that.
Howard is nowhere near the calamity that Richard Wright was. He is penetrable (few keepers aren’t - who mentioned Sorensen and Cudicini?), but I haven’t seen him directly contribute to goals through blatant errors as Wright did.
We need to get the midfield sorted. The ball bypasses midfield at the moment and under enough pressure the ball will inevitably get through.
John Welsby
27 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:00:41
27 Posted 09/01/2008 at 09:00:41
I'm still so gutted by yesterday's result - it was a fantastic performance given we were without Osman, Piennar & Arteta and to be at 1-1 after 90 mins was a great effort.
But then the 2nd goal goes in and we're on the back foot for the 2nd leg. Now most people would say Lescott should have done better - indeed he should have. But surely the 6 yard bix is the keepers domain? If not, what is?
Howard doesn't like coming for crosses and his main strength is shot stopping. However his main weakness is communication and you only have to look at goals against us this season for Larissa and Arsenal's 3rd (when Yobo clearly left it to Howard given Howad was so far out of his box) to realise that.
The Larissa game could have cost us, the Arsenal one did and I hope yesterdays failure to either come and claim or make a decent attempt to save the ball doesn't knock us out.
Every team needs a good keeper: a keeper is made not just by the saves he makes but by the mistakes he doesn't make. Moyes knows that which is why his first decisions were to get rid of Gerrard and Simonsen and why he's been collecting keepers like mad. It's surely time to try another keeper out because Howard's presence is simply too costly. Sir Alex made a massive decision when replacing Leighton with Sealey in the FA CUp replay 1989. I believe Moyes should think about something similar.
Brian Waring
28 Posted 09/01/2008 at 19:36:33
28 Posted 09/01/2008 at 19:36:33
Karneet, I don’t understand how you can say it was a fantastic performance? We were totally out - played in the first half, and apart from 15 mins or so in the 2nd, Chelsea were also the better side with only 10 men.
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1 Posted 09/01/2008 at 01:33:36