ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Will you be staying long, Sir?

So the ink is dry and Manuel Fernandes is back in a blue shirt. Whether you are over the moon or disappointed with the loan signing it is important to note Moyes?s words:

"We would have (made it permanent) but because of the third party agreement it was impossible, which is something I agree with.

"I think in football it should be correct that players should be owned by the clubs so I have to agree with that, but he's now back here and we?ll see how he does again. Whether we would be able to afford him is another question!"

What does this mean? Well my interpretation from reading between the lines is that the collapse of the deal when he went to Valencia was not due to his greed and if anything appears to due to the fact that WE were not able to sign him due to difficulties over the 3rd party agreement. Is this the truth or the club?s current stance? I suppose we will never know for sure.

We are unlikely to make the deal permanent. The 3rd party ownership has not been cleared up. And note Moyes?s final comments where he casts doubt on whether we can afford him. Just what is the fee to buy him outright? Is it a fee just to Valencia or is it a fee to Valencia for half just as it was to Benifca 12 months ago? Moyes clearly has doubts as to whether it will be made permanent.

I just hope we sign him up, and that we can work hard for the next 6 months to ensure there is no snags in making the deal permanent. The FA should give us the same courtesy afforded to Man Utd (twice) and Liverpool.
Steve Ferns, Liverpool Posted 12/01/2008 at 17:04:52

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Kieran Kinsella
1 Posted 12/01/2008 at 17:16:36

The Fernandes thing just doesn?t add up. If he is worth $12 million then why were Benfica so keen to loan him out last year ? Usually $12 million pound players are utilised or sold for profit but loaning one out makes not football or economic sense. Then we have Valencia who apparently paid 12 mill for him wanting to loan him out also which leads me to believe there must be something wrong with this guy. Granted he put in a few good displays for us last year but there must be some kind of behind the scenes problem with him that causes clubs to loan him out which you would think hurts them in footballing and economic terms. I say keep him for 6 months then pass him on again just so long as we pay the meagre 2.5 m apparently needed to sign the much more reliable Pienaar

Dominic Fitzpatrick
2 Posted 12/01/2008 at 17:18:26

I’d be interested to know people’s thoughts on this, particular the idea that Fernandes is still part owned and this could scupper another permanent move in the summer.

I’m pretty sure I read on here during the build up to the deal being rubber stamped that Valencia had bought him outright off his agency and Benfica.

Can anyone clear this up? If Everton were to move for him permanently in the summer would we face the same problems?

As for Moyes saying he is unsure whether we could afford him... I’m not sure how to take this, is he being clever? Trying to bring the valuation down? Or is he deadly serious?

Where did the money for him from last summer go if it’s the latter?

Mike Cowhig
3 Posted 12/01/2008 at 17:21:48

Valencia have had an awful season by the standards they set themself, sacking their manager etc... Manny wasn't the only new signing to be left out either, Zigic took a while to get into the team as well. I know he had the night in the cell incident but I don't think we should write him off as a bad influence as yet... After all, would Moyes have brought him in, in the first place, if he was???

Martin Lucas
4 Posted 12/01/2008 at 17:29:03

I think I?m correct in saying that Valencia brought him lock, stock so if we try to buy him in the summer it will be a standard transfer.

And if he?s being put out on loan hopefully that equates to him being a bit cut price in the summer, rather than £12M we would of had to spend on him 6 months ago.

Steven Mills
5 Posted 12/01/2008 at 17:32:26

Dominic

Valencia DID buy him outright so if we came to buy him in the summer (which I think we will) it will be a straight cash deal between them and us!

Koeman wants shot of him so there?s little chance he will hold out for 12 million - I reckon 8-10 million could get him! Moyes was being clever trying to get the price down!

Ste Riley
6 Posted 12/01/2008 at 17:31:53

I was under the impression that Valencia only bought half of him for the money they paid and he was still under 3rd party ownership because the Spanish FA dont give two fucks about all that carry on and will let it go on over there. Why the talk of us being able to buy him @ the end of the season for an undisclosed fee?could this be 6-8 mill? could it be less?We all no that with the 3rd party bollocks and the FA not being into it if we wont be allowed to sign him so surely EFC have six moon to sort it out and hopefully get him on a permanent deal but then again this is Everton we are talking about and we all know how they make a circus of nearly everything they do!

Tom Winek
7 Posted 12/01/2008 at 17:41:15

Koeman was manager of Benfica when he was loaned out last season. Perhaps it?s just a simple case of the two of them not getting on.

Barry Bragg
8 Posted 12/01/2008 at 17:49:05

It’s been well publicised that Valencia bought Fernandes lock stock and barrel. We can buy him off them in the summer but we won’t pay £12m. Moyes is a great negotiator and we will get him for £8m or less I reckon.

Whether he is worth that much though is another story.

Erik Dols
9 Posted 12/01/2008 at 18:26:01

Tom’s spot on. Koeman was manager of Manny at Benfica and the two didn’t get along, so Manny was eventually loaned out. After that, he went to Valencia where after a few months Koeman was his new manager again. The two just can’t get along and Koeman is known to have trouble with several young players more often.

He had a bust-up with Sneijder when he coached Ajax. Sneijder is one of the revelations in this years’ Real Madrid side. Like I said he had a bust-up with Manny at Benfica and with three our four players already at Valencia. At PSV, the club he coached before going to Valencia, three players (Gomes, Affelay and Aissati) refused to renew contracts because of Koeman. In the two weeks after Koeman left, they all three signed new contracts.

I don’t know about the bust-up in the nightclub, but the reason why Manny is loaned out again is quite simple: Ronald Koeman.

Dominic Fitzpatrick
10 Posted 12/01/2008 at 18:45:51

Thanks for the info!

Dutch Schaffaer
11 Posted 12/01/2008 at 19:07:27

He?s got a lot to prove before I will agree that the deal should be made permanent.

Everyone is quick to forgive the fact that he shook hands on a deal and signed autographs for fans before leaving for another club.

He?s certainly a player with potential, he showed enough to suggest he could be a very good player but I remain worried about the character of the man.

Remember he was in jail shortly before signing for us.

Keith Glazzard
12 Posted 12/01/2008 at 18:58:58

A player like Fernandes to give us midfield strength where we need it for the second half of the season - given that injuries, suspensions and the African cup all bite deeply - must be welcomed.

I can’t believe that we would still be involved with this player - good as he is - if making him a permanent signing wasn’t possible. Moyes must want him. The money men must know how to do it.

If Manny and Steven are the players they are today at the end of the season, they will be signed.

Stuart Duncan
13 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:25:26

This is the official UEFA site. It suggests Valencia own all of Manny

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/uefacup/news/kind=1/newsid=645044.html?cid=rssfeed&att=index

Lue Glover
14 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:27:48

We have no midfield to speak of and some of you are already salivating at the prospect of the Manny ?deal? going bosoms up before he sets foot on the pitch. Give him and David Moyes a chance. DM would not entertain him if there was something ?wrong? with Fernandes. Get a grip and start looking positively rather trying to second guess what might happen. We have Wigan away and Chelsea at home next two games. Fact - we need someone like Manny. The prospect of Manny, Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill, with Osman available too- great. the future is looking good, stop pissing on it before it happens!

So Manny has something to prove? Well, the only person he has to prove anything to is DM, if it?s good enough for him it will be good enough for me. And before anyone asks, no I?m not Doddy in disguise - I?m just sick of negativity! We have played some fabulous football this season, we have ground out the odd result like today and frankly, we?ve thrown a good few points away too but that?s football.

I?ve been critical of DM in the past but now is the time to get behind him and the team not rub our hands with glee because something might not go according to plan.

John Murphy
15 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:39:46

I know that Fernandes has played three times in the Champions League for Valencia this season, but will he still be available to play in the Uefa Cup?

Charlie Skinley
16 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:48:01

Well said Lue - couldn’t agree more.

Gavin Ramejkis
17 Posted 12/01/2008 at 21:50:02

Dutch your argument about him spending a night in jail before he signed is as crass as your rubbsih about Yakubu, the guy was held as standard police process in a case, was he charged or jailed? Duncan Ferguson spent time in prison, did that make him less of a player or a man or stop him scoring great goals for the club? He isn’t another Joey Barton.

Give the lad a chance before spouting crap arguments.

Jez Clein
18 Posted 12/01/2008 at 22:10:37

John - yes Manny is eligible for the UEFA cup

You may remember that Mascherano played for West Ham in UEFA and then RS in Champions league
They are counted as 2 separate competitions by UEFA which is what they are !

Anthony Newell
19 Posted 12/01/2008 at 22:07:55

I’d go with the Moyes crying hard up line in order not to be held to ransom. After all, Moyes also said he knew nothing about the possibility of this deal a few days ago. I think Moyes is correct to play it poker faced when it comes to signing a player and not giving too much away about the club’s finances

On signing Fernandes permanently, I thought there was an option to buy at the end of the loan - if so, at a set price or determined by negotiation?

On Fernandes himself, my initial thoughts when he buggered off was that he was a shithouse of the highest order. As soon as it was rumoured he was coming back I put my ill-feeling to one side because I know this is the sort of player Everton need to break through to that next level. Fernandes has been given another bite of the cherry at a club where he can achieve adulation very quickly. I’ve a feeling in my bones he’s gonna deliver!