The Mail Bag
Credit where it's due
Comments (33)
Today's game reminded me of matches in previous seasons where we'd snatch the lead and then defend like mad to hold on. I think the team and Moyes have moved on since then but it does show our limitations when the squad is suddenly bereft of so many "first choice" players.
But credit where credit is due. Lescott was immense after an early bout of lack of low confidence when he seemed to want to clear everything first time (a reaction to Wednesday night?), Jagielka was outstanding, Valente solid. Although I don't generally rate him, I also thought that Hibbert had an outstanding game.
It was nice to see Arteta back and I thought he also had a good game albeit in a workmanlike manner. He certainly got around making up the space for some of the other more pedestrian midfielders.
Although, quite a few players were subdued, even substandard ? McFadden anyone? ? the real disappointment for me was Anichebe. Despite some earlier promise, he doesn't look the part to me. Why is it that he always looks totally knackered after 60 or 70 minutes?
Anyway, a good win, 3 points in the bag and level with our neighbours. Fourth place for the Blues anyone? Onwards and upwards but we'll have to have a stronger midfield against Chelsea! I'd play Baines left midfield instead of McFadden but there you go, just my opinion.
Ray Robinson, Posted 12/01/2008 at 19:11:21
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Dan McKie
2 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:00:41
2 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:00:41
Hibbert was a contender for man of the match today in my opinion as were all of the defence! The match was a forgetable one but im glad to see we can still grind out a result when we have to and this on paper was one of the more difficult league games we face without our African trio! Well done lads, COYB!!
Mark Griffiths
3 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:11:28
3 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:11:28
Great result today!!!
I thought we played well in the first half (to a degree) but had a much tougher second half which was to be expected and considering the players we had missing, it was a fine performance.
On the subject of Victor, I have thought for a while now that he is not the player alot of people think he is.
Don?t get me wrong, he has shown flashes of real potential, but that is it for me.
It remains to be seen whether he will become as good as some people have touted, but I just think compared to other young forwards coming through in the Premier League (Agbonlahor?)
I really really hope he does come through along with JV and become great Everton players for the future, but I don?t know? Part of me just doesn't see it...
I thought we played well in the first half (to a degree) but had a much tougher second half which was to be expected and considering the players we had missing, it was a fine performance.
On the subject of Victor, I have thought for a while now that he is not the player alot of people think he is.
Don?t get me wrong, he has shown flashes of real potential, but that is it for me.
It remains to be seen whether he will become as good as some people have touted, but I just think compared to other young forwards coming through in the Premier League (Agbonlahor?)
I really really hope he does come through along with JV and become great Everton players for the future, but I don?t know? Part of me just doesn't see it...
Ben Brown
4 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:17:56
4 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:17:56
It was a classic away performance. I jest of course.
I actually cheered on Tony when he made a foray into the opposition third, didn’t really have anything on, knew that he was never going to beat a man, and subsequently played it all the way back to the keeper. Something like, "That’s alright Tony, well done son". This is the result we needed so we can keep players coming back (Fernandes -> Ossie -> ANC) and keep on winning.
I actually cheered on Tony when he made a foray into the opposition third, didn’t really have anything on, knew that he was never going to beat a man, and subsequently played it all the way back to the keeper. Something like, "That’s alright Tony, well done son". This is the result we needed so we can keep players coming back (Fernandes -> Ossie -> ANC) and keep on winning.
Ray Robinson
5 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:19:20
5 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:19:20
Victor has raw agression and determination but seems lacking in speed, touch and quickness of thought. Not sure that he?ll make it big time but I think he?s a good impact player off the bench and so he?s definitely worth keeping.
Andrew Mahon
6 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:20:11
6 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:20:11
Anichebe was up against two outstanding cental defenders today and I though stuck to his task like a real man. Remember how he held off his man to allow the shot which Hart saved and Timmy should have netted the rebound?
ps: Anyone agree that will be McFadden's last game?
ps: Anyone agree that will be McFadden's last game?
Keith Glazzard
7 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:10:06
7 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:10:06
I thought today was going to be a massive test for us - and we won. Grind them out - the 1985 team did when they had to. Every good - or great - team has to.
The BBC spoke of the game today as between Champions League contenders. This, as we know, means fuck all, but it is a huge change to their usual script.
Our best line-up may well come together in 8 weeks or so from now. They will give everyone a run for their (bigger) money. If the teams playing up til then do the job they’ve done today, possibly our highest PL finish.
The BBC spoke of the game today as between Champions League contenders. This, as we know, means fuck all, but it is a huge change to their usual script.
Our best line-up may well come together in 8 weeks or so from now. They will give everyone a run for their (bigger) money. If the teams playing up til then do the job they’ve done today, possibly our highest PL finish.
Alexander Marsh
8 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:27:29
8 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:27:29
Good result against a good team...I also thought Hibbert did well today...Can’t wait for Fernandes to get into the first-team, if there was time we needed him the most, it’s now! Who thinks we should go back to 4-5-1?
Mark Griffiths
9 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:26:45
9 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:26:45
I think we need to get rid of Jimmy Mac... nice guy but his moments of brilliance are just too far apart; another below average performance from him today I think. I personally would bite the hand off any offer over £4M.
I don?t know what AM is waiting for, just up your offer wee man!!!
He has been here for 4½ years now and to be honest I can only remember 2 or 3 great games he has had.
I don?t know what AM is waiting for, just up your offer wee man!!!
He has been here for 4½ years now and to be honest I can only remember 2 or 3 great games he has had.
Stuart Duncan
10 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:28:12
10 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:28:12
If they do sell McFadden without a replacement, then God help us if we have another midfield injury.
Baines in midfield? Gravesen? I’m not even keen on Neville in Midfield.
We were lucky today no one had to go off. That must be the thinnest 16 we’ve put out all season. I don’t see any more signings coming in, so if we do sell McFadden, then I think we’ll have an incredibly poor bench against Chelsea in the 2nd leg. We need to buy first, not leave ourselves ridiculously exposed.
Baines in midfield? Gravesen? I’m not even keen on Neville in Midfield.
We were lucky today no one had to go off. That must be the thinnest 16 we’ve put out all season. I don’t see any more signings coming in, so if we do sell McFadden, then I think we’ll have an incredibly poor bench against Chelsea in the 2nd leg. We need to buy first, not leave ourselves ridiculously exposed.
Erik Dols
11 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:10:19
11 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:10:19
Do you realize.... we've just beaten a top-10 side!
So no more of those rubbish mailbag-responses of "we only beat the little ones"? Yay!
Season still could go all ways. A fourth place, cup win and huge European run is all but possible. An 8th or so finish and getting knocked out of Uefa Cup and the Carling Cup is just as easy. But overall, I love this season so far. Like someone said a week ago or so: I watch games with a lot more confidence than a few years back ? or even one year ago! COYB!
Dave Southword
12 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:39:52
12 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:39:52
A win when we’re not at our best and against a team that started out ahead of us.
Very happy!
Winning when not playing well is seen as an attribute by other, more successful clubs. It’s what you have to do to be in contention.
Very happy!
Winning when not playing well is seen as an attribute by other, more successful clubs. It’s what you have to do to be in contention.
Mark Griffiths
13 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:38:24
13 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:38:24
Yeah, good point stuart!!
Maybe Moyes and McLeish will wait until the end of the transfer window for some players to come back.
But one point I would make is that McFadden?s best role is in that whole behind the forward(s) a la Cahill to a degree but he does not get the chance to play there often.
I just think come Feb, we do not need him as we would have Peanut and Osman back ? and now we have Fernandes.
Maybe Moyes and McLeish will wait until the end of the transfer window for some players to come back.
But one point I would make is that McFadden?s best role is in that whole behind the forward(s) a la Cahill to a degree but he does not get the chance to play there often.
I just think come Feb, we do not need him as we would have Peanut and Osman back ? and now we have Fernandes.
Gavin Ramejkis
14 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:49:45
14 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:49:45
I was in a split over my MOM today thinking Carsley just edged it as unsung and breaking up plenty in the middle followed very closely by Hibbert who dealt very well with Petrov who was their best player by far.
McFadden didnt look interested and I admit to booing him as he constantly failed to track back just a few yards to help defend. In terms of Anichebe he does look knackered after 60 mins and to be honest Dunne look petrified of Vaughan after the first tackle far more than Anichebe throughout the game but either way having both of them is a bright light for the future.
Anyway I was laughing most of the drive home listening to that shower across the park whingeing on the radio phone in on Radio Merseyside - gotta laugh
McFadden didnt look interested and I admit to booing him as he constantly failed to track back just a few yards to help defend. In terms of Anichebe he does look knackered after 60 mins and to be honest Dunne look petrified of Vaughan after the first tackle far more than Anichebe throughout the game but either way having both of them is a bright light for the future.
Anyway I was laughing most of the drive home listening to that shower across the park whingeing on the radio phone in on Radio Merseyside - gotta laugh
Stuart Duncan
15 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:50:49
15 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:50:49
Mark,
You could be right about doing a deal at the end of the window. If we got to the final, McFadden would be cheesed off.
I do agree about McFadden’s best position being behind the front man. I am more concerned about AJ. We have 3 "similar" centre forwards in Yakubu, Vaughn and Anichebe but when we play AJ we need to change style completely. Maybe AJ is the one we sell in the Summer.
You could be right about doing a deal at the end of the window. If we got to the final, McFadden would be cheesed off.
I do agree about McFadden’s best position being behind the front man. I am more concerned about AJ. We have 3 "similar" centre forwards in Yakubu, Vaughn and Anichebe but when we play AJ we need to change style completely. Maybe AJ is the one we sell in the Summer.
Paul Cook
16 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:57:53
16 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:57:53
Hibbert?s best game of the season today and I?m agreed with a lot of the points here. Petrov looked pretty tricky and had a great eye for a little layoff. Tony was wise to most of it and proved solid. I?m pleased because he was struggling first 3/4 months of the season and it keeps the squad depth in all areas.
Victor worked hard today but no reward. He?s still young and needs to develop more of the holding play. I still don?t feel it?s enough at times, but agree that Dunne and Richards battered him to pieces (They?d be useless those two if they weren?t allowed to use their arms by the way - How much leaning, tugging and pushing did they get away with!!!???)
Vaughan saved the game today when we were well under pressure. He?s a secret weapon for us because I don?t think other fans quite realise how good he is!! He is going to be a big big player!! Keeping him a secret is fine by me! Can?t wait for the next 3/4 games!! Great time to be an Evertonian!!
COYB!!!
Victor worked hard today but no reward. He?s still young and needs to develop more of the holding play. I still don?t feel it?s enough at times, but agree that Dunne and Richards battered him to pieces (They?d be useless those two if they weren?t allowed to use their arms by the way - How much leaning, tugging and pushing did they get away with!!!???)
Vaughan saved the game today when we were well under pressure. He?s a secret weapon for us because I don?t think other fans quite realise how good he is!! He is going to be a big big player!! Keeping him a secret is fine by me! Can?t wait for the next 3/4 games!! Great time to be an Evertonian!!
COYB!!!
Mark Griffiths
17 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:59:28
17 Posted 12/01/2008 at 20:59:28
Stuart, I agree about AJ!
Whilst I do not see him in the same brackett as McFadden, when you really think about his goalscoring record since his arrival, it is piss poor. I know he works his socks off and has had to play out of position a lot, I just think he has not really done it for me and if we could get what we paid or maybe a bit more. Come the summer, I would not be overly bothered if he was sold, providing we invested in another forward that is!
I thought Hibbo was great today, but Jags had a great game too, and we all keep mentioning this point, but Man City are in great form and we more than deserved to beat them today without Osman, Yak, Yobo, Peanut, and I suppose AJ (if I am not contradicting myself)!
Whilst I do not see him in the same brackett as McFadden, when you really think about his goalscoring record since his arrival, it is piss poor. I know he works his socks off and has had to play out of position a lot, I just think he has not really done it for me and if we could get what we paid or maybe a bit more. Come the summer, I would not be overly bothered if he was sold, providing we invested in another forward that is!
I thought Hibbo was great today, but Jags had a great game too, and we all keep mentioning this point, but Man City are in great form and we more than deserved to beat them today without Osman, Yak, Yobo, Peanut, and I suppose AJ (if I am not contradicting myself)!
Anthony Newell
18 Posted 12/01/2008 at 22:23:31
18 Posted 12/01/2008 at 22:23:31
Stuart, I’ll tell you McFadden’s best position - up front for Brum!
Get rid of this fucking waste of space
Get rid of this fucking waste of space
Mick Mac
19 Posted 12/01/2008 at 22:36:32
19 Posted 12/01/2008 at 22:36:32
I thought myself that Jimmy mac looked a little lethargic today ( well more than usual) but i thought he held the ball well at times but still doesnt look up when he has made the break and tends to either lose it or put the wrong pass in.
Hibbert I thought was immense today along with Jags who was my man of the match. We are desparate for a holding midfielder but I thought the lads handled the game well today. They controlled the first half well and when they were pressing in the second half we controlled our last third of the pitch ans that showed in them only having 2 shots on goal both in injury time.
Overall a pleasing performance.
Howard : Didnt have a llot to do but dealt well with the shots
Hibbert an excellent game<>Valente : I thoughtlooked a little off the pace but came up with some great work in the second half.
Jags Brilliant read the game extrememly well an was there to snuff out attacks
Joleon Brilliant goak and overall game what a steal at 4 mill
CArsley playing vintage football
Neville I though had a great game
Arteta showed great enthusiasm and skill
Jimmy mac as described earlier
Victor was up against 2 great centre backs but did ok, bit to learn yet
Vaughny looked a a little unfit to be honest but overall did ok
Hibbert I thought was immense today along with Jags who was my man of the match. We are desparate for a holding midfielder but I thought the lads handled the game well today. They controlled the first half well and when they were pressing in the second half we controlled our last third of the pitch ans that showed in them only having 2 shots on goal both in injury time.
Overall a pleasing performance.
Howard : Didnt have a llot to do but dealt well with the shots
Hibbert an excellent game<>Valente : I thoughtlooked a little off the pace but came up with some great work in the second half.
Jags Brilliant read the game extrememly well an was there to snuff out attacks
Joleon Brilliant goak and overall game what a steal at 4 mill
CArsley playing vintage football
Neville I though had a great game
Arteta showed great enthusiasm and skill
Jimmy mac as described earlier
Victor was up against 2 great centre backs but did ok, bit to learn yet
Vaughny looked a a little unfit to be honest but overall did ok
Andy Callaghan
20 Posted 12/01/2008 at 23:13:17
20 Posted 12/01/2008 at 23:13:17
Why sell anybody? We’re 5th for christ’s sake! Sell AJ? Why?? We’re getting better every season! We need players like AJ to get the best out of Yakubu. We’re never happy..
Anthony Newell
21 Posted 12/01/2008 at 23:25:58
21 Posted 12/01/2008 at 23:25:58
Andy, I think it’s something about ratcheting up the quality of your personnel when you don’t have an unlimited pot of money to draw on
Out:
Kilbane
Davies
Beattie
Weir
Watson
In
Lescott
Yakubu
Cahill
Johnson
Jagielka
Personally feel Johnson is worth keeping hold of but £4-5 million acquired from the sale of McFadden and invested in somebody like Hunt would be very good indeed
Out:
Kilbane
Davies
Beattie
Weir
Watson
In
Lescott
Yakubu
Cahill
Johnson
Jagielka
Personally feel Johnson is worth keeping hold of but £4-5 million acquired from the sale of McFadden and invested in somebody like Hunt would be very good indeed
Andy Callaghan
22 Posted 12/01/2008 at 23:38:51
22 Posted 12/01/2008 at 23:38:51
Okay, maybe you’re right about McFadden, Anthony! I get your point about improving personnel, but it’s just frustrating when people look for things to pick at. Right now we have a balanced squad of players that are playing good football at times and getting results. I think if we were to sell McFadden, we really should wait until the end of the season.
Richard Grisdale
23 Posted 12/01/2008 at 23:38:48
23 Posted 12/01/2008 at 23:38:48
Got to say that was Hibbert's best game for a while. Many tend to take the micky out of him (eg, "Jesus, don't pass it to him!") where I sit. But today's game he must have answered those critics. Another point is that Hibbert always plays much better when he has Arteta in front of him. He trusts Arteta with the ball and tries to find him instead of launching it forward. Credit lads today, some good football at times and solid at the back... COYB
Eric Holland
24 Posted 12/01/2008 at 23:48:01
24 Posted 12/01/2008 at 23:48:01
Andy
if we wait till the end of the season and McFadden has any more games like today,
We will be lucky to get £4 never mind 4 Million.
Sell the waste of space NOW!
if we wait till the end of the season and McFadden has any more games like today,
We will be lucky to get £4 never mind 4 Million.
Sell the waste of space NOW!
Neil Pearse
25 Posted 13/01/2008 at 00:20:19
25 Posted 13/01/2008 at 00:20:19
Thought McFadden today looks like he knows he is on his way. Good luck to James! He has done some good things for us and is clearly a nice bloke. But he is not right for us, and can relaunch his career somewhere else.
Thought it was an overall excellent performance today in a tricky fixture. Man City had 15-20 minutes at the start of the second half, but even then didn’t test Howard. We were pretty much in control, and the only risk seemed to be another of our late mistakes - which thankfully didn’t come this time. Bringing on Vaughan was a very good substitution by Moyes relatively early when we were under pressure, and made a big difference in stopping them so easily rolling forward.
There seems to be a confidence and a resilience in this team, so that even when we have a couple of poor results, we bounce right back. Well done boys!
Thought it was an overall excellent performance today in a tricky fixture. Man City had 15-20 minutes at the start of the second half, but even then didn’t test Howard. We were pretty much in control, and the only risk seemed to be another of our late mistakes - which thankfully didn’t come this time. Bringing on Vaughan was a very good substitution by Moyes relatively early when we were under pressure, and made a big difference in stopping them so easily rolling forward.
There seems to be a confidence and a resilience in this team, so that even when we have a couple of poor results, we bounce right back. Well done boys!
Wayne Smyth
26 Posted 12/01/2008 at 23:56:05
26 Posted 12/01/2008 at 23:56:05
Re: Victor, I think its worth bearing in mind that he's not played a lot of first-team football recently, so his sharpness isn?t what it should be. As others have stated, he was also playing on his own against two superb centrebacks.
As for AJ, he has not had decent service since he has played for us, so how people can criticise his goalscoring is beyond me. I dont recall him missing too many gilt-edged opportunities.
With Fernandes and Pienaar we now have a midfield capable of passing to feet and creating chances for our forwards.
Since Johnson is our only forward capable of outpacing most defenders and getting behind them, we would be stupid to let him go before he?s had a decent run in a team of good players.
McFadden is a different case. I?ve no doubt we?ve yet to see the best of him, but we already have better players who play in his desired position so I?d hope we?ll get rid for £4M+.
As for AJ, he has not had decent service since he has played for us, so how people can criticise his goalscoring is beyond me. I dont recall him missing too many gilt-edged opportunities.
With Fernandes and Pienaar we now have a midfield capable of passing to feet and creating chances for our forwards.
Since Johnson is our only forward capable of outpacing most defenders and getting behind them, we would be stupid to let him go before he?s had a decent run in a team of good players.
McFadden is a different case. I?ve no doubt we?ve yet to see the best of him, but we already have better players who play in his desired position so I?d hope we?ll get rid for £4M+.
Roy Coyne
27 Posted 13/01/2008 at 00:56:37
27 Posted 13/01/2008 at 00:56:37
I don't understand the rush to sell Jimmy Mac. If we where closing in on a exceptional player and needed extra cash, maybe... but as far as I know this is not the case. Everyone appears to think anything over £4M is great. Well, according to the press, a certain Boro player is quoted at £12M ? does anyone think he's three times the player Faddy is...???
John Andrews
28 Posted 13/01/2008 at 01:57:06
28 Posted 13/01/2008 at 01:57:06
Yet another sparkling performance from James McUseless !!
Seamus Murphy
29 Posted 13/01/2008 at 07:36:39
29 Posted 13/01/2008 at 07:36:39
Agree about McFadden - there were a few people around me in the Gladys agreeing that he may have played his last game. He just did not look interested.
On Vic, dont know about after 60 mins but certainly in the last 10-15 i commented to my mate that he looked out on his feet - then came up with two great fighting tackle’s by the corner flag to relieve the pressure off the defense for a while. Still think Vaughan is going to be a much bigger player for us though - he really did look lively when he came on.
Also special words of mention for Hibbert and Carsley. I thought it was a toss up between those two for our man of the match. Hibbert kept Petrov very quiet all afternoon but for the sheer number of City attacks he broke down i’ll plump for Carsley as my MOTM.
Great result - COYB!
On Vic, dont know about after 60 mins but certainly in the last 10-15 i commented to my mate that he looked out on his feet - then came up with two great fighting tackle’s by the corner flag to relieve the pressure off the defense for a while. Still think Vaughan is going to be a much bigger player for us though - he really did look lively when he came on.
Also special words of mention for Hibbert and Carsley. I thought it was a toss up between those two for our man of the match. Hibbert kept Petrov very quiet all afternoon but for the sheer number of City attacks he broke down i’ll plump for Carsley as my MOTM.
Great result - COYB!
Nelly Blythe
30 Posted 13/01/2008 at 11:29:33
30 Posted 13/01/2008 at 11:29:33
When Yakubu first came everybody slaughtered him for being a lazy bastard etc...well next to McFadden the Yak looks like a workaholic. Once again he looked totally disinterested and point blankly refused to do any defensive work, tracking back, working for the team..EXACTLY the same as Tuesday night.
I have never rated him and never will, the odd decent goal (more for Scotland than Everton) should not mask over his laziness, greediness and piss-poor decision-making (if he?d passed the ball to Cahill instead of glory-hunting we?d be all square against Chelsea !!). Was yesterday his last game for Everton??....by god I fuckin hope so!!
I have never rated him and never will, the odd decent goal (more for Scotland than Everton) should not mask over his laziness, greediness and piss-poor decision-making (if he?d passed the ball to Cahill instead of glory-hunting we?d be all square against Chelsea !!). Was yesterday his last game for Everton??....by god I fuckin hope so!!
Anthony Newell
31 Posted 13/01/2008 at 12:30:09
31 Posted 13/01/2008 at 12:30:09
No doubt, he is a nice bloke but I think the problem on the pitch would appear to be that he has come to believe his own Scotland related hype and that the game owes him a living
Nelly, if there was ever a phrase to sum up McFadden it would be ?piss-poor decision-making? ? Be it the failed one-on-one?s against keepers (Man U away a few seasons ago was the worst for me) or the failed passes to players in front of goal, he just doesn?t cut the mustard. I would hope Moyes saw yesterday?s performance as the final confirmation he needs when making the decision to get rid.
Nelly, if there was ever a phrase to sum up McFadden it would be ?piss-poor decision-making? ? Be it the failed one-on-one?s against keepers (Man U away a few seasons ago was the worst for me) or the failed passes to players in front of goal, he just doesn?t cut the mustard. I would hope Moyes saw yesterday?s performance as the final confirmation he needs when making the decision to get rid.
Ian Tunny
32 Posted 14/01/2008 at 14:44:19
32 Posted 14/01/2008 at 14:44:19
Nelly what are you on about? There was no way he could have made that pass to Cahill when there was an opposition defender in the way covering, his only real option was to go for goal from an almost impossible angle and he almost pulled it off, if anything, if Cahill got in the box quicker accross his man he could have made it. And i am a great believer that strikers should be moere greedy and have a shot, its always worth a go even if the keeper spilled it to Cahill. Or past examples - Faddy's shot against Chelsea for Cahill's overhead kick resulting in a goal; Faddy's shot and goal against France etc.
James Martin
33 Posted 14/01/2008 at 16:39:30
33 Posted 14/01/2008 at 16:39:30
You have to take into account that Vic hasn’t played many full games (if any), so it’s hardly surprising if, after playing loan striker against Dunne and Richards for an hour, he looks tired.
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1 Posted 12/01/2008 at 19:00:01