Robert, nice way you play the racist card there; very subtle... I'll just ignore it and get back to the main point: it is both ridiculous and inexcusable that they are allowed by Fifa to hold this competition in the middle of the season ? what would be wrong with syncrhonising it with the (northern hemisphere) summer, when the European and World championships are held?

And don't tell me it's too hot for them to play footy under the blazing African sun... I believe a good part of the continent is in the southern hemisphere anyway, so that theory is blown out of the water.

Football is global now. But the clubs have to foot the bill ? who do you think pays the players' wages while they are competing? There is no valid excuse for this nonsense. It's fans like you who pay their wages who should be complaining the loudest.

Michael, as a Nigerian friend told me when I questioned the timing of this tournament, the heat is not the reason that the ANC is played now as opposed to the summer. The summertime in Sub-Saharan Africa is a heavy rain season ? so much so that the pitches are destroyed and the conditions are terrible. But even he agreed that the timing of this tournament is bad and that there is enough of an outcry to likely force a change in the future. From what I?ve heard ? no matter how inconvenient the timing of the tournament is ? the ANC is a GREAT competition. Let?s hope a solution can be found that?s amenable to all parties involved.

Just have to second Rob on this one - I’ve lived for several years in Ethiopia, and come World Cup-time it’s completely impossible to play football. It rains every day, pitches are bloated, basically it’s not possible to play the beautiful game.

Now, there are countries in Africa that don’t have their rainy season during the (european) summer, but I guess most countries would be pissed off to know that sorry, due to your geographical location, you may never host the AFCON...

Michael - talking of racism, this is a direct quote from your match report today: "Carsley caught Corluka who went down like a ton of bricks in true foreigner fashion". I was disappointed to see such a xenophobic comment on what is normally an excellent site in this and every other regard. For what it’s worth I think Carsley was lucky to get just a yellow card (having had the benefit of watching slow motion replays).

I think its vital that African players have this sort of international opportunity. I would agree with what has been said earlier - perhaps there needs to be a permanent location or locations in areas not severely affected, or perhaps the time could alter between seasons?

These competitions generate a lot of money for the hosting country. It wouldn't be fair to host it in a perminant location, or restrict it to certain areas because of their different climates. Clubs or fans complaining because they are loosing a couple of players for a few weeks is just pathetic, childish and arrogant. We knew the players nationality before we signed them!

I have to admit that I am unaware of the rain issue. But as the African players have a bigger influence of European clubs, something has to give.

Am I right in understanding that the African Cup of Nations is every couple of years rather than every 4 a la European Championships? If so that’s ridiculous, if not then fair enough.

I honestly do not think the clubs should have to pay the wages of the players. If I take time off from my employer with it not being through sickness, then I doubt I would get paid. To have a four- to six-week absence to represent your country is fine but this thing where the clubs pay the wages is wrong.

This is not just African games ? all internationals, the wages they now receive means there will not be any hardship. I find it offensive that we not only lose a vital player for a semi-final but have to pay his wages as well.

If countries, England included, take players away when the season is in progress, let them foot the bill. I thought the Nigerians were very fair with us but why should any club have to ask permission to play players whom we have bought via transfers and whose wages we pay?

I am the last person to jump to Michael?s defence as some of his editorial comments are often misguided at best. However, can we leave all the political correctness shite alone. If somebody wants to describe a diving footballer as a foreigner type thing then I don't see the problem.

I am sure that most fans on here respect the race of all players. However, even our own Atreta tends to go to ground rather too easily. Sure, this is not just confined to overseas stars as some white Anglo-Saxon players are also known to go down easily, Gerrard and Owen to name but two.

But this isn't a Brownies tea party we are talking about. Fans will always have opinions on different players and to try and supress these opinions by crying xenophobia just isn't going to wash. There is a world of difference between racisim and light hearted banter; please don't try to connect the two of them. Leave that to the nimbies and the do-gooders.

It is blatant arrogance to label an international competition of historical and national importance to millions as the "ridiculous African Cup of Nations".Absolute disrespect.

Why should Africa reschedule its premier contest to accomodate the English league fixtures? Can’t the English clubs take a break for four weeks? Cos it’s too hot to play football in June?

Well said Shaun, there is far too much PC now I don't agree with racists etc but people seem to be waiting to pounce.

One of the reasons I have left the UK is because of pathetic people like Mr Carney. The UK has become so PC and sensitive its a joke. No one can say or do anything without people claiming they are racist.

Glad I left that pathetic country that was once a time a great place to live.

Although I agree that the timing of this competition is absolutely rubbish, clubs have to accept this when they sign players from the African region. My main gripe is why the bloody hell it is held every two years instead of every four years like the European equivalent... can the clubs not lobby for this change?

"Michael - talking of racism, this is a direct quote from your match report today: "Carsley caught Corluka who went down like a ton of bricks in true foreigner fashion". I was disappointed to see such a xenophobic comment on what is normally an excellent site in this and every other regard."

I have to take humbrage with this. The definition of "racism" found in the Compact Oxford English Dictionary (COED) online version is thus:

"The belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race."

Michael does not mention race. He uses the term "foreigner". To quote from COED again:

"A person from a foreign country."

My interpretation of Michael?s statement is:

"Players who now perform for English clubs that previously plied their trade abroad attempt to fake the seriousness of an action taken upon them."

In other words, they dive in an attempt to gain an advantage. The comment is not based on race but on where a player comes from - country of birth or country they play/played in.

Accuse him of being Nationalistic but not of racism

The too hot and rainy in July does not, in the case of Accra hold any water ( pun intended ) A quick visit to a annual weather record type site shows it is actually slightly cooler with an Ave. rainfall of 10-11 cms against 5-6 cms in jan.

I have this info to hand coz the question has been vexing me for a number of weeks. Ever since Berti Vogts came right out and said the problem will go on until they move it to July.

As has been stated, the AFCON is a nice little earner for the host country with the added bonus that the host presumably does not have to qualify.

But there is enough poverty in Africa to ensure that only some of the countries will have the werewithall to fund the comp.

Just remember the golden rule...’ Them that has the gold makes the rules’.This is neither paternalistic imperialistic or any other ’ istic’ or ’ism’ it’s a fact of life. One we are all used to being on the wrong financial end of...end of!

Some may say, well it’s all different in the S. hemisphere and on the equator. The world cup originated in July in S America. These days Big global events, the Winter Olympics excepted, are played in the Northern summer, even when they are played in the S Hemi. Why?? Money and TV

Anybody who is prepared to take the Sky, UEFA, FIFA, Olympic 30 pieces of silver should be enough on the ball to find half a dozen or so countries / venues in Africa that won’t be monsooned off in june july and rotate it around. This will cure all of the problems, with the added bonus of removing the temptation from those who might, of trying to put on a showpiece at the expense of the common man.

Gary - I agree completely. The word I used was xenophobia. I was careful to use this word rather than racism. However, I think you should look up "race" as well as racism in its literal sense would also apply.

I agree with Michael that the timing of the ANC is frustrating. However, the weather issues raised by several people are a reasonable explanation. I hope, in future, the timing can be improved. With the influence of money in the game these days it’s hard to imagine it won’t be resolved very soon.

Regarding my comments on xenophobia: I often hear comments to the effect of "he dived because he’s a foreigner". My negative reaction is not political correctness gone mad. If the same were said about English players in a foreign league I would justifiably be offended.

Diving is rife in all leagues these days regardless of the players’ nationality. I propose a very simple solution: the FA should employ a group of people to go through video footage of each game and penalise players who dive (surely they have the money to do this - in fact, get Capello to do it as he’s not doing a lot else). For example, one of the Man City players yesterday (Corluka perhaps) was hit lightly on his left leg but then rolled around on the floor clutching his right leg. If that behaviour was met with a 1 match ban I doubt he would do it again. Players from all teams and of all nationalities are guilty of this.

Being English/South African I find it very disturbing read shit like this. People in England must STOP being so fuckin arrogant and think they have all the answers. Everything does not revolve around you. Its time to shut up. This AFCON?s timing is a real blow for us English football loving supporters, but we must understand a few facts before we open our big mouths!

1. The tournament does generate funds for that host country.
2. It boosts their struggling economy.
3. Stadiums are being upgraded and some new ones are being built.
4. More players can be scouted, go abroad and support their families back home.
5. It speeds up football development in all areas.


European clubs benefits from this happening this, time of the year and every two years. About 15% of Africans players move to Europe and this tournament!
Fifa knows it?s their humanitarian duty to allow Africa (not just football) to grow and help them self sustain their struggling economy.

England are one of the only countries crying foul and can?t except loosing African players. These players representing their countries at AFCON are helping Fifa changing the image of Africa without them even knowing it, and here I read fans don?t wants those players being paid during this tournament! I hated losing our African stars, but I understand they have a duty the bigger picture! Come on guys, stop this fuckin nonsence?

We’ll just have to have a nice winter break at the same time as the AFCON...

Here we go, the fucking PC brigade have invaded TW!!
Everyone has 2 options regarding this site: read it, or don’t. Simple.

How about the African Nations Cup is kept in Jan / Feb, but it is only held every 4 years like the Euro?s?

Let's face it alot of the African teams are good enough to compete on a world level and not just in their own exclusive competition. Give them a couple more spaces in the World Cup but make them stop having the tournament every 2 years.

I agree with Shaun, I am not one to jump to Michael?s defence but Joe?s Walton?s comments are a disgrace. For god sake (shit I?ll probably get into trouble for saying god) what the hell is wrong with referring to foreigners in a match report. Racism is a disgusting thing and I know Michael and the others guys would not allow any such thing on this site - so to indicate Michael is a xenophob by simply using the word foreigners is insulting, pathetic and well out of order..

There has been plenty of things on this site that I have dissagreed with over the years (personal insults at each others opposing views, name calling etc) but never anything that I thought would get the PC brigade all excited. Joe, sensitive people like you might be best sticking with the official club website.

In my opinion the ACN is quite ridiculous. A historic competition I hear some say ? have you seen the crowds for some of the group games...? Theres more in a League 2 game!

In my opinion, this competition actually undermimes the players who play in it because it actually lowers their value. We all know some manegers are funny about signing Africans because you lose them at vital times of the season, so it makes it harder for Africans to make it as how the fuck can you build a team around players who are missing for vital parts of the season?

This isn't racist or anything of the sort - its just plain honesty and this shambles because make no mistake, that what it is at the moment, needs to be adressed.

I could be wrong here. But don?t a majority of the players who are involved in this tournament, actually, in their own way, say they don?t like going either?

1.The tournament does genarate funds for that country.
2. It boost their struggling economy
3. Stadiums are being upgraded and some new ones are being built.
4. More players can be scouted, go abroad and support their familie back home.


Sorry. I must be missing the point, why should I care?

I always remember in back in the heady days when I could afford to pay for Sky Sports, a conversation held with Richard Keys and the panel of experts which included Rodney Marsh and George Best.
The gist of the conversation was about diving and in particular the number of penalties Manchester City were awarded in the season that Bob Latchford's main rival for the £10,000 prize for scoring 30 goals in a season was Frannie Lee.
Richard Keys asked Rodney Marsh if he had ever dived and he replied that yes of course he had.

Turning to George Best, Richard Keys asked him, "Did you ever dive, George?" and George Best said. "No I never dived" and looking Richard Keys in the eye said matter-of-factly, "I never had to."

What I think people are confused with here is diving and rolling around on the floor in agony and then getting up and jogging off when an opposition player either gets booked or sent off.

There are a lot of English divers ? probably just as many as "foreigners" ? the difference is in the reaction sometimes.

Look at Ronaldo yesterday to see what I mean. Also I think its unfair to label every player with that "divers" title wether English or not ? as with life, you get a mixed bag.

Why not in ANC year have England/Europe play a number their qualifiers during the same period? I?m not saying stop the season totally, but if you had 2 or 3 england internationals in this period and thus had the Premier League blank weeks from earlier in the season not disrupted surely this would keep everyone happy?

Ricardo, this is not a question of arrogance, so just drop that shit, alright?

Humanitarian considerations and the growth and development of the game in Africa are all well and good but how exactly how are they promoted in Jan/Feb more so than in June/July?

The only thing I?ve heard is monsoon rain... well, the last article I read on Africa said they can no longer rely on the rains even coming any more... plus there is only a portion of the massive continient that is affected by monsoons. And anyway, with all the money coming in, part of it could be invested in good drainage and decent playing surfaces that would completely mitigate the rain argument. So I?m sorry but I don?t buy that one.

Please clear your head of all this other crap and explain exactly WHY this wonderful tournament has to be held NOW and not at the same time of the year as the World Cup?

The experts at Fifa can?t come up with a solution, can you? My point is deal with the fuckin problem and STOP nagging.
Dont buy fuckin Africans if that makes you happy. Why can?t the Premier Leeague take a break like the most other leagues, that way the blow isn?t that big. One guy said why can?t qualifier or international friendlies be played during this period! Yes, AFCON would be best taking place every 4 years, but it doesn?t! Work around the prob!

Thank you all for joining in this debate. My initial feelings have not changed one iota.

For all you staticicians which I am not, how many players are registered for the Premir League and what is the percentage of players going to represent their country? With the exception of the likes of Ferguson at Man U, most managers welcome the right of their players to represent their countries. Moyes is no exception. Eat humple pie Michael and accept you believe like many in this country the west have the right to pick and choose.

The people who bang on about political correctness all the time: it is just so annoying! Grown men arguing about "PC", it makes me sick, this is what old women talk about on the local bus route.

Pointing fingers at who?s being racist and/or who?s being too politically correct is just so pathetic. Get a grip.

Ricardo

"Its time for the people in England to stop being so fuckin arrogant"
Hopefully the irony wont be totally lost on you,

The reason it’s held at this time of year is that it has been for 50 years. The Africa Cup of Nations has been going longer than the European Championship. Why should an African football tournament be scheduled to suit European football clubs? It’s not like the scheduling of it has stopped clubs buying African players is it? There are plenty all over Europe, and the clubs bought these players and signed their contracts in full knowledge that they were African (with a few exceptions, where players from other countries with African heritage change nationality) and that if they were good enough and their nation qualified then they would go to the ACoN every other year in January.

So why complain about it now? And why demand that Africa makes it’s decisions on the basis of what’s convenient for Europe?

Ricardo: By your dismissive response, I conclude there is therefore no valid reason why the competition is held in Jan/Feb, other than the tradition that it always has been. Well then... time to think about changing it, methinks.


Robert: Sorry, my supply of humble pie got ate by the dog... Your point continues to be something about the arrogance of "the west". It?s really a very simply question: why not hold the competion in the summer, so that its effect on global football is minimized ? a la the World Cup.

Richard: For the reasons cited above, football is now very much a global game (look at the worldwide TV converage of the Premier League), and there seem to be a number of people who think something needs to be done about it. Or perhaps you advocate that when an African country finally gets to stage the World Cup, it will be held in January and February?!?!

Re: "Gary - I agree completely. The word I used was xenophobia. I was careful to use this word rather than racism. However, I think you should look up "race" as well as racism in its literal sense would also apply."

Joe - I too agree with your view on your reply to my post. I too think some of our beloved team go down too easily. Arteta is one of the main culprits followed closely by Pienaar and recently Phil got caught out when the guy did not even attempt a tackle.

I read your initial post again and then your response. What caught my eye was the term ?racism". I also saw the term "xenophobic" but that followed the racism term. It flawed my opinion and I associated the xenophobic term as such.

Reading your response makes sense to me now and I apologise for any angst I may have caused. It was not directed at you personally but was an attempt to clearly define the boundaries of what constitutes racism and even nationlism.

I think we can agree that people are xenophobic when it comes to EFC. Not one of our players take a dive whilst those from other "foreign" teams, ie not Everton, do.

Sincerely - and looking to another win against Wigan - Gary

Listen lads,

can we not stop all this PC nonsense and accusing each other or racism, xenophobia and any other ?isms? that come to mind.

Were all fans of the blues and of the beautiful game so lets pull together eh.

Right I'm off now my missus has just finished the cleaning and the washing so I need to get the bitch to do me tea.

Ciao for now.

Its held january cos of heat/rains etc etc. Ok we could take that on board, but why every two years???