ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Big Three now

Does anyone else think that the phrase ?big four? is a joke now? Anyone can see that that the big three are on their own. Liverpool have the same chance of finishing in the top three as Derby do ? zero.

There?s going to be a hell of a battle for fourth place which the press have been handing to Liverpool as a birthright. But maybe Liverpool won?t even finish in a Uefa Cup spot if they maintain their current form and so do the Blues, Villa and City, not to mention Portsmouth. And their last 17 games include visits to the Big Three, while the likes of Villa, City and Everton won?t be willing to let them add to their four home league wins.

The Observer today says that Gillett and Hicks are expected to fail to make their loan repayment due end Feb to RBS, partly because they won?t put their hands into their own pockets. An Arab buy-out is possible to save Liverpool from becoming owned by a reluctant bank. But if they are in sixth position and Inter have dumped them out of Europe? Not such an attractive prospect. A big history won?t mean anything if you are mismanaged financially, ask Leeds fans

On another subject ? ?Everton 1-0? - last time we made the top four this is what the press called us as we won six 1-0s in a row. Unless I?m mistaken, yesterday was our first 1-0 win in the league this season in our 22nd game and 12th win. Happy days!

(Mind you, five 1-0 wins to follow would be quite acceptable)
Peter Hall, Wirral Posted 13/01/2008 at 11:07:40

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Michael Kenrick

Ah... the fascination with Liverpool FC... we just can't get by without it, eh?

Personally I think the gloating is a little premature; I would waiit untll the end of the season and the completion of those 16 remaining games (17 in Liverpool's case). And as for the CL...

Kieran Kinsella
1 Posted 13/01/2008 at 15:30:47

Liverpool were too rich to want to share a joint stadium with us and yet it turns out now that their rich boy owners lost much of their wealth in the sub prime crash so hahaha. The RS haven?t won the championship in 18 years which obviously rules them out of being among any "big" group whether it is 3,4 or 5. Personally I believe that very soon either ourselves or Aston Villa will permanently knock them out of serious contention and while I don?t think they will go the way of Leeds I do think they might go the way Utd did between 1968 and 1992.

RoyKroft
2 Posted 13/01/2008 at 15:31:41

It personally does not bother me in the slightest. The’ Big Four is a manufactured piece of spin curtosy of Sky. It sits neatly alongside their other bits of spin and branding such as ’Grand slam Sunday’ which actually took place while the RS were 5th! If we were to finish fourth again this season, we could justifiably sue the media if they mentioned Liverpool in the same breath as the big four, as two top four finishes in four season would prove that we were at least their equals over this period!!!

Gaz Daniels
3 Posted 13/01/2008 at 15:32:07

Its only the ?big four? as there are four Champions League places. So the the teams that finish in these positions year on year are only gonna get richer and stronger and therefore bigger.
If there was only three Champions League places then i really believe there would only be a big three, according to Sky of course.
In today's Premier League, money is what makes a team a big team, and where is the money in football? That's right ? the Champions League.

Keith Glazzard
4 Posted 13/01/2008 at 15:28:31

I read the Observer article this morning and while I could only wish the RS the worst of luck, my perspective was to be thankful that our ownership - no matter what faults they have - is nothing like theirs. I didn’t like the idea that Mourinho would be their next manager as he could possibly do a good job. But just like Newky, perhaps, nobody can actually do that.

And then there were three? Sky watchers can keep us informed. When the gangster roubles go, Cheesy will be bought by an oil sheik and then disappear. The Arse must live in fear of any home-player quota. And the beloved Saint Alex is immortal, so they will win everything for ever and ever. Perhaps.

David O'Brien
5 Posted 13/01/2008 at 15:58:22

This morning on Gay?s on Sunday on sky sports, John ?racist? Terry was asked if The Shite?s title hopes were over now? Hang on you wankers, 4 teams are on 39 points yet they still bore on about The Shite, and yes not one of the other teams on 39 points was mentioned. another stinking example of the lack of intelligence and balance of Sky Sports. Burn in hell!

Peter Hall
6 Posted 13/01/2008 at 16:01:03

I can see why Michael thinks my post shows a fascination with Liverpool; true but temporary. Once we are in the top four, I don?t mind where they finish. Earlier this season I had hopes that Chelsea would implode with their personality clashes and stuttering results (so I was fascinated by them for a few weeks), but that hope has gone for now. Liverpool started so well that I had no hope of them making space at the top then. But now....!

No, all I want is a little space for us to get the Champions League spot now we are ready for it and could build a great place in English football. ANY space will do ? and I?m a long way from counting on it as even if Liverpool slip up Villa look a real danger. COYB!

Alan Clarke
7 Posted 13/01/2008 at 16:27:11

It shouldn?t be ?big 4? anyway. Chelsea certainly aren?t big. They should be called either the ?top 4? or ?rich 4? or more accurately ?the greedy arrogant bastards who are sucking the life out of football 4?. I fully expect the FA and Uefa to step in and make sure the status quo is maintained either by corrupt refereeing or fixing Liverpool's European Cup run or changing the rules at the last minute to mean the top 3 and the team in 8th place qualify for the Champions League.

Brian Denton
8 Posted 13/01/2008 at 16:38:20

Ah, Michael’s sanctimony again.....! Can you not excuse us just a little bit of Schadenfreude about the club whose fans constantly belittle us, whose children make our children’s lives a misery in school etc etc?

But I do agree with you that we shouldn’t be too premature. Nonetheless hopefully either us or Villa will edge them out. Surely we won’t both have a bad run of form which will give them 4th place by default?

Mick Simo
9 Posted 13/01/2008 at 16:48:15

This Sky Four thing keeps coming up every other day. Can't be bothered with it, let us just see how things pan out with our remaining games, I will reserve my piss-taking for the end of the season.

I remember them jammy bastards in 2005 and the texts I sent out at half-time... never again will I make that mistake. Just a mention on them RS and these Yanks, I believe the Arabs will bail them out, they have a package on the table and its been there for 12 months, so you see these bastards always come up smilling. The Yanks are struggling to come up with the dosh, the banks just won't lend them the money. I hope and pray they come unstuck but we all know the score when it comes to them bastards.

Sam Myers
10 Posted 13/01/2008 at 16:59:05

Listening to the phone in on City on the way back from the game yesterday, Aldridge was saying that Liverpool were probably "2 world class players away from a title-winning side".

Surely that means that us, Villa and City are too??

They have as much chance as us at the start of the season as they are still very much off the pace of Arsenal & United.

Chris Williams
11 Posted 13/01/2008 at 11:32:28

The fat waiter described us as 'A little club' so perhaps he should think again as the top four are no longer the elite ? it's a top three. Those trying for fourth spot are the little clubs! Can I be so bold as to welcome Liverpool to our little club league! In which we will finish top and in the Champions League!!!

Brian Waring
12 Posted 13/01/2008 at 17:18:25

The reason why the redshite are always classed as one of the big 4, is because they consistently finish in the top 4. You can’t argue with that stat.

Dominic Fitzpatrick
13 Posted 13/01/2008 at 17:41:34

I haven’t believed in the fabled ’big four’ in a while.

I don’t even believe in a big three either.

There are only two outstanding teams in this league, and at the moment they currently occupy the first and second places in the table.

It is my opinion that third and fourth are there to be taken, it will be hard, you cannot discount the quality that Chelsea and Liverpool have, but its not impossible.

Teams like Everton, Manchester City, Aston Villa, and Tottenham are equipped to breach the top four, and for the good of the game, I hope it happens.

Mick Mc
14 Posted 13/01/2008 at 17:38:31

Here we go again Sky 4, fuck them. This is Everton not Man Utd or any other club, it is were we finish what matters not about the RS. Head down, low profile and just get on with winning games and no complacency.

Michael Kenrick
15 Posted 13/01/2008 at 17:49:17

Nicely put, Mick. I think that is where I was coming from. Although I have to admit there is some merit to the point that, if one of the top four fails, it makes our job that much easier, and unlitmately gets us there in their place... which is exactly what happened in 2004-05!

Nicholas King
16 Posted 13/01/2008 at 17:58:19

I dont know the exact numbers but I am pretty sure that for many seasons now Liverpool FC have finished closer to 5th position than 1st, one season being beaten to 4th by its better half, of course.

I live abroard, and it's not until you get away from the city and all its hustling, bustling local rivalry that you really see how Sky (Fox over here) market the Premier League. It is a celebrity culture-driven advertising campaign sold to the foreign masses on the backs of names such as Gerrard and Torres, Rooney and Ronaldo.

Thus, until they (Sky) decide to adjust their "campaign" by dropping one team (and its brand-name players) possibly due to that team's under performance, and pick up another team, substituting the designated ?stars? of that team (possibly Cahill and Atreta if it was Everton) then you are always going to have the current Big Four. As posted above, the ?big four? is because of the number of Champions League places. Which individual teams they in fact are depends on the Sky ad men.

Jimmy Rooney
17 Posted 13/01/2008 at 18:40:00

Football is no longer just about 22 players on the pitch or 40 000 fans in a football ground, it is a global business and these 4 teams have become the franchise of Sky TV, more covarage world wide, more replica shirts being sold, and more money for these clubs to set and inflate transfer fees. Man United have just announced a tour of South Africia two years before the world cup, they have got the whole world sown up. So were does this leave clubs like Everton? For us to break into this elite club, we would need to finish in the top four places for about 3 consecitive seasons, only then would be able to market our brand around the world and then hopefully attract the worlds best players. But being realistic it will take a lot of effort and luck to finish above 5th place, it is hard but not impossiable.

Steve Ashton
18 Posted 13/01/2008 at 18:46:39

We should all remember as well that if they hadn?t paid off Clattenberg they?d be 6 points behind us now.

But I?m not bitter...

Keith Glazzard
19 Posted 13/01/2008 at 20:10:12

Nicholas King - greetings. You didn’t say where, but your friendly neighbourhood Foxsportsnews should put you in North America? And I guess your report about the marketing of the PL there is very accurate. It’s more or less what we get here - newspaper etc advertising to sell the product showing four (first team) football strips with identifiable faces.

The BBC is far from perfect, but when it loses MoTD next year the ITV machine will go the Sky way.

I suppose I’ve supported Rupert Murdoch’s empire by watching games in pubs which pay for his product. But as far as I know, I have never invited him into my home by buying his newspapers or subscribing to his TV stations. There’s not too much we can do to halt this evil empire - taking the piss out of them is probably the best.

Michael Kenrick
20 Posted 13/01/2008 at 20:56:11

Nicholas: "As posted above, the ?big four? is because of the number of Champions League places. Which individual teams they in fact are depends on the Sky ad men. "

I understand the point you are trying to make but let’s not lose sight of the basics: it’s a league table and I (perhaps naively) still believe that, if you accumulate more points than at least one of those four, and you do it consistently, then you will eventually become part of the Big Four, ad men or no ad men.

Anthony Newell
21 Posted 13/01/2008 at 21:02:23

Mick Simo, I sent those same text messages - talk about cooking your goose

I had tryed to ignore them in recent times but my hatred has deepened markedly since the ’small club’ jibe and the Derby game earlier this season with their manager’s post match comments. I find myself uncontrollably finger gesturing whenever I see that twat on TV, a bit like my grandad used to do whenever he saw Thatcher

The only thing that marred a perfect day yesterday was their equaliser. No matter how much you want to ignore them the following will always stand ’there’s nothing like singing the blues when Everton win and Liverpool lose’

Brian Waring
22 Posted 13/01/2008 at 21:05:44

That’s it in a nut shell, Michael. If we were to finish in the top 4 consistently, we would then become one of the big 4. I have to laugh when Some fans think there is a big conspiracy going on, involving the top 4 and Sky.

Keith Glazzard
23 Posted 13/01/2008 at 23:56:10

Couldn’t agree more Brian.

And, of course, that wouldn’t matter if we were playing at the old lady or in Kirkby.

Would it?

Eric Hardman
24 Posted 14/01/2008 at 00:01:45

Biggest myth in football: ’We don’t care what the RS say’. Some people seem to define themselves by hating others. It’s sad. This is the biggest difference between football now and forty years ago.

Neil Jamieson
25 Posted 13/01/2008 at 19:05:06

As a supporter and voter for the move to Kirkby (purely pragmatism though it hurts to support it) I wondered what the current Kirkby regeneration plans might look like super-imposed on the "Public Space" that is Stanley Park? Given that the council seem happy to have a football club on the site and the Franchisee's over the road have run out of cash - perhaps we could provide the trilogy of homes in Walton over 150 years?!

The serious point of the post is that even in today?s big cash environment, mismanagement, lies and BS are as dangerous as ever. I genuinely don?t want LFC to succumb to the credit crunch, but wouldn?t it be nice if our city could boast clubs under British ownership? If LFC remain under foreign rule, I cant deny that seeing them being under the ownership of DIC will lighten my mood, after all, they?ve been heavily supported by Dic?s, foreign die-hards and various other dross for the last 15 years (or since they became a ?franchise?)