ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

Chris Masey
1 Posted 15/01/2008 at 16:26:16

Cahill can tackle

Graham Nolan
2 Posted 15/01/2008 at 16:28:37

Mikel Arteta is 2nd only to Luke Young in his percentage of tackle s won this season.

Mark Dawson
3 Posted 15/01/2008 at 16:31:07

I know what u mean m8 but fernandes is a great tackler, I think people dont realise this becoz he is so good going forward......sayin that tho I’d have Diarra in a flash!!! perfect replacement for carsley i reckon

Seamus Murphy
4 Posted 15/01/2008 at 16:33:33

Both Arteta and Fernandes can tackle - But i dont see Carsley going anywhere just yet anyway, the way he is currently playing there is no need to replace him yet.

Graham Nolan
5 Posted 15/01/2008 at 16:36:36

I agree with Seamus.
There seems to be growing opinion that Carsley is finished, I beg to differ. He has at least 2 years left in him. The position he plays does not require him to make box to box runs like many other midfielders and his reading of the game allows him to make up for a lack of pace.....which he never had anyway. Fear not fellow blues there is life in the old dog yet!!

Chris Canning
6 Posted 15/01/2008 at 16:37:28

Believe it or not, I wouldn’t be suprised if Jack Rodwell finds himself in the holding role in the future. In the reserves & the U18 he has been used in this position instead of centre half recently (possibly due to his calmness on the ball & ability to pass it out of defence). If he does turn out to be as good as they say - this could be a posibility..... Or I could be full of crap & reading into games that don’t really matter far to much!

Dan Mckie
7 Posted 15/01/2008 at 16:46:35

I think we have got players that can temporarily fill that position but id be a little worried if cars got injured long term, however, Diarra for 5.5mil and 60k a week is a rip off (thats what pompey are rumoured to have offered)

matt berry
8 Posted 15/01/2008 at 16:46:35

I think people have missed carl’s point, we need a ball winning holding midfielder. Yes Cahill and Fernandes may be able to tacke but i certainly wouldnt want to see Cahill in a defensive midfield role, hence what Carl says regargin a long term replacement for Carsley.

Dan McKie
9 Posted 15/01/2008 at 16:48:34

Forgot to say that if Diarra is just after first team football then why is he also asking for more than triple his current wage?

Paul Lenehan
10 Posted 15/01/2008 at 16:48:44

The good thing about playing Carsley in a holding role with 4 decent ball players in front of him is that whenever he gets the ball there should always be on outlet. This is because there is obviously an extra body in midfield plus the likes of Arteta or Fernandes or Ossie can get the ball under pressure and still keep hold of it. With that in mind I wouldn’t be overly worried about putting Neville in the holding role (only if Carsley is hurt!!) provided there are 4 ball players in front. When he plays in a traditional four man midfield he really does get exposed.

Richard Porter
11 Posted 15/01/2008 at 16:57:14

I agree with Chris Canning that Jack Rodwell is a real possibility as a long term successor to carsley- he’s very good in defence as well, but I have been very impressed by him, wherever he plays.

Michael Hunt
12 Posted 15/01/2008 at 17:06:55

Carsley replacement? We’ve loads of them:
1) Neville
2) Fernandes
3) Gosling
4) Rodwell
Nb. Two for now and two for the future.
COYB!

Mike Allison
13 Posted 15/01/2008 at 17:53:55

The only potential Carsley replacement we’ve got is Anderson Da Silva, and despite being successful in The Championship for Barnsley this season it seems the official verdict on him is that he’s not good enough. Phil Neville is a full back, Manuel Fernandes is unlikely to be so restricted as to play the Carsley role until we sign more creative midfielders, Gosling is an attacking full back and Rodwell is 16.

Given the lack of confidence in Anderson I think this position is one of the two we need to strengthen in right now (left midfield being the other). Carsley is having a good season but is surely in need of a rest now having played every game over Christmas and new year. He’s one of the older squad members and some of his tackling at the least looks tired and desperate at the moment. Its even looked at times like he’s trying to get suspended! The guy needs a break and some back up.

Jonny Brown
14 Posted 15/01/2008 at 18:28:54

Fernandes is regarded as a holding midfielder. Hence his nickname Manalele. Thats the position Portugal are grooming him for

mick Simo
15 Posted 15/01/2008 at 18:31:12

Spot on Jonny about Fernandes, He reminds me a bit of Gilberto, holding midfielder, he can win tackles, protect the back four and distribute the ball calmly and effectively. Just what we need. Diarra looks like he is off to Pompey.

Arthur Jones
16 Posted 15/01/2008 at 18:31:55

It was actually Jose Mourinho who christened Fernandes "Manalele" he would do a great job in that position but I personally think he would be wasted playing there and I don?t think he has the engine to be a box to box player for 90 minutes . An Ideal solution is what has been suggested , another 2 seasons of Cars where Jack Rodwell could be slowly brought along , Isn?t that what a successful academy is supposed to do , and we have a great record of bringing youngsters through without age being a barrier , Joe Royle was only 16 as was Rooney and Vaughan . I?m sure DM knows what the next step is . I?ll trust his judgement

Art Greeth
17 Posted 15/01/2008 at 18:43:28

Actually Jonny, he is behind the exquisite João Moutinho of Sporting for that position with the national side. Way behind.

Steve Ferns
18 Posted 15/01/2008 at 18:55:20

James vaughan and Rooney may well have only been 16 on their respective debuts, but the holding midfielder is perhaps the most important position in the side and if he does not do his job properly then the defence suffers as well as the attack. Therefore, I would submit that a 16 year old may not be able to handle such responsibility.

I expect Rodwell’s calmness, youth, and ability to mean a few appearances at full back later in the season.

Dominic Fitzpatrick
19 Posted 15/01/2008 at 19:04:41

I have to agree, to a certain extent, with Jonny and Mick.

Manuel Fernandes is regarded as Portugal’s next Costinha or Petit.

Such is his ability, Jose Mourinho referred to him as ’Manelele’ due to him resembling Claude Makelele in his approach.

Mourinho even went on to say he expected Fernandes to go on to be a better player than Makelele.

However, from what I have seen of Fernandes, his talents are wasted in such a disciplined role.

Everton saw the best of him when he was given the freedom to play football with Mikel Arteta. They both contributed to the ’Ole’ football of the latter stages of last season.

Shackling Fernandes in a over disciplined defensive midfield role is a waste in my opinion. Someone should be brought in to do the Carsley role and furthermore, to echo the sentiments of the original post, address the lack of physical presence in our midfield.

The perfect man for me would be Abou Diaby of Arsenal, not Lassana Diarra. Whether Arsene would let Diaby go is highly unlikely, but a player of his ilk would be the ideal replacement for Lee Carsley, not Fernandes.

Mark Stone
20 Posted 15/01/2008 at 19:20:58

Fernandes and Rodwell

Dominic Duerden
21 Posted 15/01/2008 at 19:40:29

I thought Rodwell was a centre half / defender?

Why would you play a 16 year old lad out of position? And in the premier league? We have done it with Jags and Neville - it does not work !! I think Carsley has been brilliant this season , but it would be prudent to buy a defesive minded centre mdfielder as cover / future replacement.

You can’t play Cahill / Fernendez in that position , they are too attack minded.

Anthony Newell
22 Posted 15/01/2008 at 19:56:33

Can’t believe we haven’t expressed an interest in Sidwell, given that he has been linked with Sunderland. He would appear to be an excellent replacement for Carsley when his time is up

In relation to the original post I would hope that Fernandes would get the nod ahead of Osman as was the case when he was on loan last time round

An interesting selection dilemma looming for Saturday. Instinct tells me that Moyes will plump for Neville and Carsley in midfield again although I would really like to see Neville at RB and Fernandes straight in. I’d like to see the guy hit the ground running against Chelsea and do some damage

Dick Fearon
23 Posted 15/01/2008 at 20:49:08

Fernandez was a bit of a show pony. Occasionally he looked classy but over the full 90 mins did not pull his weight.
The manner of his signing with Valencia was insulting to Everton.
He put pen to paper on the deal and I don’t hold much truck with the idea that it was his owner alone who did the deed.
If he is that damn good why did mid table Valencia, after paying top money for him relegate him to the bench.
The same could be said of his time at Portsmouth.
There are those night club shenanigans and suggestions of theft still to be resolved in the courts.
I believe that where there is smoke there is fire and a lot of it is clouding the atmosphere.
I suppose Manny’s supporters can find a reason or excuse for all the above but I will still have my doubts.

Ben Brown
24 Posted 15/01/2008 at 21:39:34

I don’t see where this idea of Fernandes ’going missing for large parts of the game’ or being downright lazy has come from. When he played for us I saw nothing other than a dominant midfielder who, whenever he got the ball, did something good. I also remember him tracking back, making challenges and busting a gut to get in the opposing penalty area.

Can anyone give any examples of games where he was ineffectual or lazy? Or at least lazier than our other players due to tiredness?

Dutch Schaffaer
25 Posted 15/01/2008 at 21:40:33

Arteta, Osman, Cahill, Neville, McFadden, Jagielka, AVDM, Graveson, Pienaar, Fernandes and Gosling.

There’s enough flair, graft and depth there to get us to the end of the season I would say.

Dutch Schaffaer
26 Posted 15/01/2008 at 21:46:22

If everyone is fit and available what is Everton’s best midfield?

You gotta have Carsley because he’s the rock and protects the back four.

You have to have Arteta because he’s Everton’s most creative player and possibly best.

Cahill’s goals are probably enough to earn him a starting place although I’d stilll like to see more overall from him.

Osman has been great this season and is always a threat going forward so I’d give the last place to him.

Neville will have to be content with a defense place and that leaves Fernandes, Pienaar and Graveson on the bench. Thats possibly the best bench since the 1980’s.

Of course thats if Moyes plays with a 4-man midfield, if he drops a striker and plays 5 then Pienaar or Fernandes could start.

Point I’m making is that Everton now have some serious talent and Moyes is going to have to make some difficult decisions when everyone is fit and available.

We effectively have two very strong midfields:-

Carsley, Arteta, Cahill & Osman

Neville, Pienaar, Graveson & Fernandes

We could have three if you include:-

Jagielka, AVDM, McFadden & Gosling

FANTASTIC.

mick Mc
27 Posted 15/01/2008 at 21:52:45

Dutch being a bit kind to ADV and Graveson, do you see Gosling getting on the bench this season? we need another midfielder and I am worried about the absence of the Yak, he is so key to our season in my opinion, he scores goals and I just hope Johnson starts finding his shooting boots, with some decent service from midfield he should do.

Stuart Duncan
28 Posted 15/01/2008 at 22:03:57

The alternative to Rodwell playing in Carsley’s spot is to play Lescott there and Rodwell at the back. Lescott scores more than most midfielders as it is and looks like a modern day Franz Beckenbauer bringing the ball out of defence.

John Carter
29 Posted 15/01/2008 at 21:38:55

Dick Fearon - he may well have went missing in parts of 90 mins but what he has is the ability to change a game in a flash e.g see a pass that not any other of our players can. I'd rather have a player like Fernandes than a workhorse like Carsley and Neville who don't go missing but contribute very little in pieces of magic which manny has in abundance.

Eric Holland
30 Posted 15/01/2008 at 22:23:46

Stuart
I have to agree I think Lescott could do an excellent job as a holding midfielder.
He has pace, can tackle, and scores goals.
COYB.

Kevin Mitchell
31 Posted 15/01/2008 at 22:04:43

Central midfield has been our weakness for quite a while now, and should have been addressed in the summer.
I agree with carl that we need more presence in the middle. Most games this season even at home we seem to be outnumbered and out played for long periods through the middle, even dare I say it against sunderland, but we’ve got the fire power to win these games. All the so called big teams are so strong in this department. there seems to be no way we can beat these teams by playing through the middle.
Have you noticed that most loose balls seem to fall to the oposition, this can’t be luck all the time.

Allan Jones
32 Posted 15/01/2008 at 22:29:49

I’d be more inclined to make sure Pienaar became an Everton player beyond this season than worrying about Carsley and the cover for him. I think We’re OK in the interim with both Neville and Jagielka as back up for the DM role and I say this even though I’m a believer that this is one of our weaker positions.

Mike Coates
33 Posted 15/01/2008 at 23:27:15

I watched the majority of the U21 Portuguese games with Fernandes playing (observing as I was so hoping he would join us at the time) and in many instances his ball winning skills were next to none.

In one case, he raced down back into defence, stole the ball, displayed his foot skills between the rest and ran the ball all the way up the other end himself to have a shot on goal (I can’t remember if he scored on the occassion but he did score in the game)

Peter Bourke
34 Posted 16/01/2008 at 00:02:19

If Cahill is available he should be the first player picked. It was his return to the park that sparked our recent run of good form although obviously he isn?t totally the reason for our change in fortunes. I don?t care if he can?t tackle. He does plenty of work and often harrasses the opposition into making mistakes not to mention saving numerous goals by heading shots of the goaline. For what it?s worth i believe our best midfield is;
Cahill, Arteta, Piennar, Fernandes, Carsley.
Ossie and mad dog as back up.

Connor Rohrer
35 Posted 15/01/2008 at 23:50:02

Dutch, my midfield would be different to yours. I personally think this is our best midfield:

Arteta...Fernandes...Cahill...Carsley...Pienaar

Obviously a midfield 4 of Arteta, Fernandes, Carsley and Pienaar with Cahill as the most attacking midfielder.

A midfield 4 with Carsley and Cahill for me isn’t the best way to go. Neither will put there foot on the ball and dictate the play. I think If we want to play football and continue to improve in a footballing sense then either Fernandes, Osman or Arteta have to be in the middle alongside Carsley. Arteta is seen as a winger by a Moyes anyway so he’s out the picture so then its between Osman and Fernandes.

Ossie’s had a great season and he always will be apart of this squad but Fernandes is by far the better midfielder. He’s quicker, stronger, has more vision and is more technically gifted. He’s on a whole different level. He’d be my pick alongside Carsley. Potentially Fernandes is better than all of them including Arteta and I have no doubts about that.

On the left its got to be between Pienaar and Osman. Pienaar wins for me. He’s shown this season how well he can play on that left hand side. Statistically our most creative player with 8 assists and 2 goals. He’s performances this season have been excellent and he’s more adept to playing out wide than Osman. He’s also a better all round player also.

I’d give Cahill the second striker role alongside Yakubu ahead of Johnson and Vaughan. The 4-5-1 formation is obviously a formation that suits us because its more expansive and our play is alot more fluid and Cahill makes it all gel together. He gives us the option of a target man, he gives us the option of a extra body in midfield and he also offers just as much goals as Johnson. 9 goals in 16 starts proves this.

Vaughan still needs time for me. He needs to get a full pre-season under his belt to prevent future injuries and he also needs to mature as a player.

This is what I think our best starting line up is on paper:

.........................Howard............................

Neville.....Yobo...............Lescott......Baines

Arteta....Fernandes........Carsley.....Pienaar

..............................Cahill............................

............................Yakubu..........................

Lee Brittles
36 Posted 16/01/2008 at 00:45:14

Johann Vogel? Give Carsley a rest when were playin the lesser teams (Wigan, Sunderland, Fulham, Liverpool Birmingham, Derby)

Mick Stanley
37 Posted 16/01/2008 at 05:32:23

There may be more truth than most think regarding the link between EFC and Zenit St.Petersburg. So far we have only seen the name of Arshavin linked, what a great signing he would be, but I would not be surprised if DMs preferred choice is Anatoliy Timoschuk. He’s nearly 29, a good age in my opinion for the midfield anchor with experience and an ability to read games, plays regularly as the anchor man in Zenit’s midfield and can also, as we saw at Goodison, fill in at centre back if necessary. I have no idea what sort of price he would be but if he could be available then, like Arshavin, he would be a great signing.
As a aside, I like what some are saying regarding Rodwell but I also agree that midfield anchor holds a responsibility that is probably too much for a teenager to handle.

Alan Codd
38 Posted 16/01/2008 at 08:34:32

I for one hope Carsley can stay fit and hope his contract is extended next year as he is a pleasure to watch.
Nothing fancy but what a job he does breaking up the play and throwing himself in front of forwards as they shoot.
One of our most consistent players.

Andy Ellams
39 Posted 16/01/2008 at 13:10:55

As much as we love Carsley and Osman and the big parts that they have played in the resurgence of Everton as a football team, we need to add quality to the team if we are to take the next step. Whilst Fernandes is the obvious replacement for Ossie I think Arshavin is the man to replace Carsley. He and Fernandes are both capable of winning the ball and turning defence into attack in different ways. Fernandes has the skill to run with the ball and Arshavin’s superb distribution as he showed when he recently played at Goodison, add that to Arteta and Pienaar interchanging out wide, Cahill linking them to a lone striker then I think we will finally shirk of this reputation as a team that wins matches purely through blood & guts and team spirit. And with Alan Hutton also linked today as a possible summer target, we are in real danger of being an excellent team next year.

Stephen Davies
40 Posted 16/01/2008 at 13:59:51

Rodwell is a centre back, he is uncomfortable in midfield. It’s that simple.

Connor Rohrer
41 Posted 16/01/2008 at 16:25:00

Andy Ellams, I think you’ve confused Arshavin with someone else. His most favored position is as a second striker. He has no defensive qualities whatsoever therefore he wouldn’t be a replacement for Carsley. If he was to move to England he would play on the wing in my opinion. He’s quick and skillful but he lacks the the stature and physical attributes to play the second striker/attacking midfield role.

Mike Allison
42 Posted 16/01/2008 at 16:22:08

Dutch is having an absolute laugh about the strength of our midfield. For a start we are a MUCH better team playing five in midfield. McFadden is a forward, Neville and Jagielka are defenders , and none of them look comfortable in midfield. Van Der Meyde you can forget about, although he would have been great in our 4-5-1.

By my reckoning this leaves us with Carsley as the only holding player (Anderson Da Silva?!), then six players competing for the four other places: Arteta, Cahill, Fernandes, Pienaar, Osman and Gravesen. Gravesen’s probably off and has been useless this season anyway. This leaves us way short, Osman has been injured and Pienaar is away. Midfield is part of the team where we need reinforcements and I’ll keep saying it til I’m blue in the face.

Mike Allison
43 Posted 16/01/2008 at 16:31:51

Blimey there’s some rubbish being talked on here. Arshavin, Rodwell and Lescott all being touted for the holding role. Arshavin is practically a striker, very much focused on attacking, creating and scoring goals(Timoschuk is a good idea by the way Mick Stanley). Rodwell is 16. That’s 16. And he’s a centre back. In FIVE years time he might be ready for the discipline and tactical responsibility of the holding midfield role, IF he’s a mature and sensible type of guy. Lescott is earning a reputation as one of the best centre backs in the country, moving him would be ridiculous.

We’ve been linked with Vogel before, he must be out of practice but he’s played at the highest level, with and against the best players. I don’t understand how players suddenly disappear like that when Moyes was all set to sign him and now doesn’t seem interested. Anderson Da Silva is another obvious example, if he’s any good play him, if he isn’t, why all the rigmarole signing him in the first place?

John Charles
44 Posted 16/01/2008 at 16:38:43

Interesting enough Manny describes himself as "a defensive midfielder"

Neil Styles
45 Posted 17/01/2008 at 16:45:22

In terms of an ideal ball winner, or the proverbial sonofabitch to fill in the Gravesen role how about the Black Tornado Steven Appiah? We were linked with him quite heavily in the summertime.