The Mail Bag
What Can We Learn From Tonight?
Comments (27)
C'est La Vie... The lads grafted as hard as ever, but as Moyes said, we just lacked that little something extra. Well, I think we need to give some consideration not only that little something, but to some more fundamental issues as well ? if we are to raise our game up that next level.
Firstly, I'm unsure 4-5-1 works against the top teams. Let's face it, it's currently used to accomodate Cahill pushing up from midfield in his 'jack in a box' role. But if the lone striker doesn't dominate in the air or hold up the ball (which AJ can't seem to do), and the midfield is too deep or cannot penetrate a solid defense (a la Chelsea), then we are frankly buggered (as we have been a number of times this season). Can the Yak do it? Perhaps better, but I still think 4-4-2 is the way to go and if this occasionally means Tiny Tim sitting out, then so be it (I love the guy but his form has dipped significantly).
We really missed our African chums and with Arteta double-marked out of it, I think it shows we are still lacking something in midfield to link it to the attack more effectively!
Anyway, just a few random thoughts to take my mind off the result, now I'm back home. I'm gutted and I know we were beaten by a better team over the two legs ? but I still think we aren't that far away from make 4th our natural position.
Dave Edwards, Posted 24/01/2008 at 02:11:58
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Dutch Schaffaer
2 Posted 24/01/2008 at 08:04:20
2 Posted 24/01/2008 at 08:04:20
Did anyone else notice that Fernandes was pretty rubbish? The amount of times he gave the ball away.
I don’t know how much its going to cost to make his move permanent (if we even want to) but he didn’t look like a midfielder worth over £10 million.
I don’t know how much its going to cost to make his move permanent (if we even want to) but he didn’t look like a midfielder worth over £10 million.
Mark Jensen
3 Posted 24/01/2008 at 08:28:21
3 Posted 24/01/2008 at 08:28:21
I just think playing Cahill up front, as he has been lately is poor. He is not a striker, he is an attacking midfielder. It is no coincidence that his form has been poor since he has been pushed further forward, He looked lost at times last night. I also think a number of the midfield looked not match fit. Moyes almost let that slip in an interview earlier in the week.
Ben Jackson
4 Posted 24/01/2008 at 08:44:31
4 Posted 24/01/2008 at 08:44:31
Dutch, we have to sign players of Fernandes quality if we do want to push on to the next level. Yeah he did give the ball away now and again but technically he’s class. He needs games and a chance to get back in to the swing of things in the prem. Personally I think he should be one of the 1st names on the team sheet if we’re only going to have him till the end of this season.
Mike Whittaker
5 Posted 24/01/2008 at 08:41:34
5 Posted 24/01/2008 at 08:41:34
Osman and Cahill were non existent last night. Unfortunately at the business end of the league and CL football they are too lightweight and slow. To be fair to both of them, Cahill always gives 100% and can score the odd goal and Osman was returning from injury.....but if Everton are determined to bridge the gap as Moyes stated after the match, I cant see these two in the starting eleven. They just dont offer enough in the keeping possesion and creativity stakes.
Rupert Coghlan
6 Posted 24/01/2008 at 09:14:46
6 Posted 24/01/2008 at 09:14:46
On the point of Fernandes, I thought the lad played very well actually, especially in the first half, before fading in the second. He picked passes that only Arteta could match for vision. He demanded the ball constantly, he linked defence and midfield, he tracked back, and he looked the part.
I thought Jags and Lescott were superb as well, Jags showed HE CAN play against the big four, and well. Unfortunately, Osman, Carsley and Cahill didn’t quite reach the heights of previous form. But they are great players and will bounce back. Valente however............
I thought Jags and Lescott were superb as well, Jags showed HE CAN play against the big four, and well. Unfortunately, Osman, Carsley and Cahill didn’t quite reach the heights of previous form. But they are great players and will bounce back. Valente however............
Andy Ellams
7 Posted 24/01/2008 at 09:18:55
7 Posted 24/01/2008 at 09:18:55
I thought Osman looked good lasy night, especially in the second half. He made some great tackles in our own half, and turned defence into attack more than once. He didn’t look match fit, but that will come. Fernandes looked off the pace and overweight, again that can be worked on. Arteta just doesn’t look in the same class when he comes up against some the stronger teams. Whilst he is still our most inspirational player, perhaps he most of all is the benchmark on how far behind we still are. Carsley and Cahill both look knackered and need a break, we now have a week without a game which a. means they get some time off and b. we have the possibility to strengthen the midfield numbers. We were only missing Pienaar in that department, but this meant we could not put a single midfielder on the bench.
And finally, as for Johnson, he just doesn’t cut it for me. Running around a lot and scoring the occasional goal does not make you a premiership striker. I think Vaughan would have been the better option last night.
And finally, as for Johnson, he just doesn’t cut it for me. Running around a lot and scoring the occasional goal does not make you a premiership striker. I think Vaughan would have been the better option last night.
Dutch Schaffaer
8 Posted 24/01/2008 at 09:21:10
8 Posted 24/01/2008 at 09:21:10
Howard - 6 - Still underperforming.
Neville - 7 - Defended and got forward.
Jagielka - 8 - Everton’s Man of the Match.
Lescott - 7 - Solid enough. Useful striker.
Valente - 7 - Looked useful.
Carsley - 6 - Did his best.
Osman - 5 - Never in the game.
Fernandes - 5 - Gave the ball away.
Cahill - 5 - Failed as a striker and midfielder.
Arteta - 7 - Great 1st half then faded.
Johnson - 6 - Failed to hold the ball.
Neville - 7 - Defended and got forward.
Jagielka - 8 - Everton’s Man of the Match.
Lescott - 7 - Solid enough. Useful striker.
Valente - 7 - Looked useful.
Carsley - 6 - Did his best.
Osman - 5 - Never in the game.
Fernandes - 5 - Gave the ball away.
Cahill - 5 - Failed as a striker and midfielder.
Arteta - 7 - Great 1st half then faded.
Johnson - 6 - Failed to hold the ball.
Brian Noble
9 Posted 24/01/2008 at 09:22:23
9 Posted 24/01/2008 at 09:22:23
The ?little something? we were lacking was a spark of inspiration from the manager. Nothing ever happens before the 70th minute in his world and usually that?s too late. Of course he?s hardworking and moulds his teams in his own image but that?s about it!
Peter Pickles
10 Posted 24/01/2008 at 09:59:43
10 Posted 24/01/2008 at 09:59:43
Yakubu and Pienaar, thats what was lacking.
Matt Brown
11 Posted 24/01/2008 at 10:01:20
11 Posted 24/01/2008 at 10:01:20
Dutch,
Howard 6 - still under performing...
Did he not make a string of excellent saves to stop it being anymore than only 0-1?
Valente 7 - looked useful...
Did you watch the same game as me??? He was the weakest link.
Fernandes 5 - gave the ball away...
In the 1st half he was excellent, spreading the ball as only he can, second half he went missing a little but it was his first game back and was obviously not fully match fit.
Howard 6 - still under performing...
Did he not make a string of excellent saves to stop it being anymore than only 0-1?
Valente 7 - looked useful...
Did you watch the same game as me??? He was the weakest link.
Fernandes 5 - gave the ball away...
In the 1st half he was excellent, spreading the ball as only he can, second half he went missing a little but it was his first game back and was obviously not fully match fit.
tony kelly
12 Posted 24/01/2008 at 10:09:01
12 Posted 24/01/2008 at 10:09:01
terry mcdermott.david platt.john wark.midfielders who scored goals.but when they never scored in games looked absolutely shite tim cahill is the same
Ade Senior
13 Posted 24/01/2008 at 10:10:08
13 Posted 24/01/2008 at 10:10:08
Yakubu and Pienaar, thats what was lacking.
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We missed Pienaar a lot last night, on the bright side SA only got a point against Angola last night, supposedly the worst team in the group and SA’s only real prospect of a win.
Pienaar should be home at the end of the month.
I thought we played OK last night, Osman was more effective when moved to the middle, Manny looked class in parts and picked some great passes; he faded in the second half but he is drastically short of matches, we’ll see more from him I’m sure.
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We missed Pienaar a lot last night, on the bright side SA only got a point against Angola last night, supposedly the worst team in the group and SA’s only real prospect of a win.
Pienaar should be home at the end of the month.
I thought we played OK last night, Osman was more effective when moved to the middle, Manny looked class in parts and picked some great passes; he faded in the second half but he is drastically short of matches, we’ll see more from him I’m sure.
Nick Entwistle
14 Posted 24/01/2008 at 10:25:34
14 Posted 24/01/2008 at 10:25:34
Anyone else think that it was just a hard thought game for both teams and that only a magnificent goal clinically taken as only Champions know how separated the sides with all players on the pitch putting in 100% with naturally some players of the 22 going missing as is normal in tights affairs but at no times would these performances generalise our opinion of their future to both clubs?
But that’s just me... I thought Everton played really well, and Chelsea’s defence was for the most part awesome.
But that’s just me... I thought Everton played really well, and Chelsea’s defence was for the most part awesome.
Paul Sullivan
15 Posted 24/01/2008 at 10:21:45
15 Posted 24/01/2008 at 10:21:45
The little something we are lacking is the quality of players. Compare, player for player, the 2 sides. Neville, Valente, Carsley, Osman, Johnson do not match up to Belleti, Bridge, Makelele, Cole, Anelka, respectively. The same could even be said of our stronger players. Anyone slating Fernandes for giving the ball away is way off the mark, the guy, along with Arteta, was trying to force the issue by doing the unexpected. How many times did Neville/Valente come up against their oposition full back only to realise that they couldn’t even think about getting past them and just knock the ball back taking away any impetus gained.
I think the game was lost when the teamsheet was written, pitting AJ on his own against Carvalho and Alex in a game where we had to force the issue. He might run around willingly but he needs a strike partner or he is easy meat for a centre-back.
To beat the big 3 we need to be bolder, back ourselves and attack them, because as we saw last night those teams have players who consistently convert the half-chances they create.
With our strongest XI we might well have been in with a chance but chelsea have 2 sets of players who are, simply, better than ours. We are doing well but we are playing at the peak of the potential of the current squad, so Moyes is right in what he says "it may take money to bridge that gap".
I think the game was lost when the teamsheet was written, pitting AJ on his own against Carvalho and Alex in a game where we had to force the issue. He might run around willingly but he needs a strike partner or he is easy meat for a centre-back.
To beat the big 3 we need to be bolder, back ourselves and attack them, because as we saw last night those teams have players who consistently convert the half-chances they create.
With our strongest XI we might well have been in with a chance but chelsea have 2 sets of players who are, simply, better than ours. We are doing well but we are playing at the peak of the potential of the current squad, so Moyes is right in what he says "it may take money to bridge that gap".
Dan Adams
16 Posted 24/01/2008 at 11:41:01
16 Posted 24/01/2008 at 11:41:01
Is it just me or is Valente looking a bit overweight. I dont remember him been as "chunky" when we signed him. I think he did ok but just a concern...
Tommy Jomes
17 Posted 24/01/2008 at 11:51:08
17 Posted 24/01/2008 at 11:51:08
Howard is looking dodgy at present; too slow of the line... I blame him for the goal at Stamford Bridge. We still need better players.
Robbie Shields
18 Posted 24/01/2008 at 11:50:28
18 Posted 24/01/2008 at 11:50:28
Dave, I completely agree with your assessment that 4-5-1 doesn’t work against the big boys and I’ve said that for the last 3 years. We needed to go 4-4-2 and put pressure on them. Subs came too late again when we’d proved 4-5-1 wasn’t working, gutted.
John Gilfoyle
19 Posted 24/01/2008 at 11:42:34
19 Posted 24/01/2008 at 11:42:34
I thought fernandes was good in the first half, very composed on the ball like Arteta!!!Didnt lob the ball over the top ala Carsley. Yes carsley works hard can tackle but i believe in the premiership elite you need more!does makelele hoof the ball!! Arteta had two men all the time Osman not athletic enough at all!!Midfield is the area that needs most improvement!! How Arshavin would of been ideal for a game like last night imagine him in Cahills role!!
But to be fair to the lads they all put in 100% and were basically outclassed!! Moyes is a great manager but tactically one dimensional struggles to adapt when the 4-5-1 doesn?t work.
I think that we will still finish high in the league and have a good Uefa cup run!!
But to be fair to the lads they all put in 100% and were basically outclassed!! Moyes is a great manager but tactically one dimensional struggles to adapt when the 4-5-1 doesn?t work.
I think that we will still finish high in the league and have a good Uefa cup run!!
Ian Tunny
20 Posted 24/01/2008 at 12:14:55
20 Posted 24/01/2008 at 12:14:55
Dutch I tend to agree with you a lot although you can be quite cynical towards player like Yakubu and Fernandes, but Fernandes impressed me early on and only deteriorated and got sloppy towards the end, I think this is down to match fitness and to not playing much at Valencia. Give him a few matches under his belt before you comment and bearing in mind hes only 21 up against a good Chelsea side and his boyhood idol Makalele. Most players in their prime would have struggled, although I agree 10 mill is a bit steep if that is the price.
Dutch Schaffaer
21 Posted 24/01/2008 at 12:26:22
21 Posted 24/01/2008 at 12:26:22
Ian, I’m certainly not suggesting that Fernandes is a poor player. I totally agree with you, he’s clearly out of practice and not as fit as he should be.
When his form and fitness returns then he could be a very good player.
All I said was last night he didn’t have a very good game and on that performance he didn’t look like a £10+ million midfielder.
I really miss Pienaar. He’s a great little player and I didn’t realise how important he was until he was gone.
When his form and fitness returns then he could be a very good player.
All I said was last night he didn’t have a very good game and on that performance he didn’t look like a £10+ million midfielder.
I really miss Pienaar. He’s a great little player and I didn’t realise how important he was until he was gone.
Iain Atkinson
22 Posted 24/01/2008 at 12:32:37
22 Posted 24/01/2008 at 12:32:37
Valente and Carsley were the obvious weak links for me, both of whom needed to be much better than they are capable of being if we were to have a strong enough team to put Chelsea to the sword. It was a shame that Baines wasn?t fit but we definitely need a better defensive midfielder than Carsley if we are to have a chance of matching the midfield players of the top 3.
I know Carsley is rightly regarded as an important player for us but I think his deficiencies (particularly his passing and vision) are too easily shown up when he plays against the better teams. I know he gives his best every game but I don?t think his best will ever be good enough for where we want to be.
Fernandes was alright but I could see why Moyes was so reluctant to put in a £12 million bid for him last summer. A lot of his passes went astray but I think that was a result of a lack of match practice more than anything else. He didn?t seem to be on the same wavelength as some of his team mates but that should change the more he plays. Even on last night?s evidence I?d like to see him come back permanently but not if Valencia are expecting silly money for him.
Osman didn?t see much of the ball and clearly ran out of steam mid way through the 2nd half but his return should help with the remaining league and UEFA Cup commitments we have.
I still think we?re having a good season but the two legs against Chelsea have confirmed what most of us thought in that we still have a lot more to do if we want to get to the next level.
I know Carsley is rightly regarded as an important player for us but I think his deficiencies (particularly his passing and vision) are too easily shown up when he plays against the better teams. I know he gives his best every game but I don?t think his best will ever be good enough for where we want to be.
Fernandes was alright but I could see why Moyes was so reluctant to put in a £12 million bid for him last summer. A lot of his passes went astray but I think that was a result of a lack of match practice more than anything else. He didn?t seem to be on the same wavelength as some of his team mates but that should change the more he plays. Even on last night?s evidence I?d like to see him come back permanently but not if Valencia are expecting silly money for him.
Osman didn?t see much of the ball and clearly ran out of steam mid way through the 2nd half but his return should help with the remaining league and UEFA Cup commitments we have.
I still think we?re having a good season but the two legs against Chelsea have confirmed what most of us thought in that we still have a lot more to do if we want to get to the next level.
Colin Malone
23 Posted 24/01/2008 at 12:49:52
23 Posted 24/01/2008 at 12:49:52
Fernandes ain't good enough. Very lazy player. He was giving decent passes and stopped. In the position he's playing in, it is important that you support your forwards, ie Stevie G... not stay deep. I watched Manny last night and the last stint when he was here and he has not changed. Yet I look at Steven Pienaar, good skillfull player and puts a full shift in. Maybe that's the problem with Manny ? he thinks hes better than he really is.
Gaz Edwards
24 Posted 24/01/2008 at 12:54:53
24 Posted 24/01/2008 at 12:54:53
Was definitely a bridge too far.
If they hadn’t had Mikel sent off in the 1st leg, it would probably have been done and dusted there and then.
They completely bossed it up to that point, and we were lucky to come away only 1 down in the end. In the first half of that game especially, it was like men v boys.
It showed the size of the chasm between the top 3 and the rest of the league.
My fear is that if we do get 4th place again, and qualify for the Champions League, when we come up against teams of a similar standing, our shortcomings could be painfully exposed once again.
Happily though, I think we are a match for all but a handful of teams in the UEFA, fingers crossed that we can get back to full strength and give it all we’ve got....
If they hadn’t had Mikel sent off in the 1st leg, it would probably have been done and dusted there and then.
They completely bossed it up to that point, and we were lucky to come away only 1 down in the end. In the first half of that game especially, it was like men v boys.
It showed the size of the chasm between the top 3 and the rest of the league.
My fear is that if we do get 4th place again, and qualify for the Champions League, when we come up against teams of a similar standing, our shortcomings could be painfully exposed once again.
Happily though, I think we are a match for all but a handful of teams in the UEFA, fingers crossed that we can get back to full strength and give it all we’ve got....
Joe McParland
25 Posted 24/01/2008 at 13:13:01
25 Posted 24/01/2008 at 13:13:01
Is it just me or do we have a group of midfielders who are afraid to shoot from outside the box? There were a few occasions last night where, just outside the box one of our midfield either stood and waited for an overlap and then played a bad pass, or they would try to take on two men. Arteta was the biggest culprit in this.
Jimmy Hoffa
26 Posted 24/01/2008 at 12:36:34
26 Posted 24/01/2008 at 12:36:34
I think Frrnandes was the reason why our 4-5-1 didn?t work last night. If he was firing on all cylinders the result would?ve been much different. I believe DM was taking a chance.
Incidently, he should?ve used Neville there, and probably changed the formation 30 mins before end of game with Fernandes in.
Incidently, he should?ve used Neville there, and probably changed the formation 30 mins before end of game with Fernandes in.
Tony Williams
27 Posted 24/01/2008 at 13:35:12
27 Posted 24/01/2008 at 13:35:12
I am hoping for a speedy recovery from Baines or a shock few defeats for Nigeria so we can get Yobo back and get Lescott out on the left again, whilst we wait for Baines.
Valente was strong in the tackle last night but too slow to offer any forward momentum, every time we got the ball on the left it was going backwards to him.
Valente was strong in the tackle last night but too slow to offer any forward momentum, every time we got the ball on the left it was going backwards to him.
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1 Posted 24/01/2008 at 07:10:47