The Mail Bag
Cahill and Arteta?
Comments (33)
Considering Cahill and Arteta are meant to be two of our best players, does anybody else feel let down by their performance last night? Cahill hasn?t played well for a few games now. He was anonymous again last night. Arteta never plays well against any of the better teams in the league. He gets the ball does a little bit of skill, which often isn't really needed, then instead of taking people on and attacking their goal, he checks and either plays it back or comes inside.
Also, when AJ is a lone striker, what is the point of playing 40 yard balls to him that hang in the air when he?s up against a 6ft plus defender, such as Alex or Carvalho. AJ needs balls played through to him for him to run onto and he?ll do the rest.
When its a semi final match at home I want to see all the players give it 110%, I want to see attacking football and get value for money for the 280 mile round trip I do every other week.
Graham Duffy, Posted 24/01/2008 at 11:29:34
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Ben Jackson
2 Posted 24/01/2008 at 13:59:58
2 Posted 24/01/2008 at 13:59:58
I think it’s a bit harsh to say Arteta ’never’ plays well against the big teams. He just looks less effective because teams like Chelsea, Man Utd have the quality to take him out of the game, which is compliment to his quality.
I do agree that Cahill hasn’t been himself lately but I guess it was inevitable he was gunna need a rest sooner or later. He hasn’t looked like needing one in about 4 years!
At the end of the day, we have to hold our hands up to Chelsea last night, Carvalho and Alex were class and we didn’t quite have enough to get through them.
We still have so much to play for this year and we can’t let this affect our league or Uefa cup form. We’d have taken what we’ve acheived so far at the start of the season (maybe with the exception of the FA Cup) so we just have to keep going!
I do agree that Cahill hasn’t been himself lately but I guess it was inevitable he was gunna need a rest sooner or later. He hasn’t looked like needing one in about 4 years!
At the end of the day, we have to hold our hands up to Chelsea last night, Carvalho and Alex were class and we didn’t quite have enough to get through them.
We still have so much to play for this year and we can’t let this affect our league or Uefa cup form. We’d have taken what we’ve acheived so far at the start of the season (maybe with the exception of the FA Cup) so we just have to keep going!
Tom Rowe
3 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:01:55
3 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:01:55
They were both double if not triple marked. Arteta certainly got more from the right hand side, when he switched to the left he was very lost.
I think that Carsley was also lost last night. Not his best game. Too many poorly placed passes, giving the reciever too much to do at best.
Arteta?s deliveries from set pieces were excellent, and his work rate chasing back was also good. You can?t blame Tim for his efforts, you can?t expect him to out jump 2 defenders nearly a foot taller than you, but you can?t take him off the pitch but he can score goals from nothing.
Have you thought about moving closer to GP? Maybe the drive home has given you too much time to come up with someone to blame!!
I think that Carsley was also lost last night. Not his best game. Too many poorly placed passes, giving the reciever too much to do at best.
Arteta?s deliveries from set pieces were excellent, and his work rate chasing back was also good. You can?t blame Tim for his efforts, you can?t expect him to out jump 2 defenders nearly a foot taller than you, but you can?t take him off the pitch but he can score goals from nothing.
Have you thought about moving closer to GP? Maybe the drive home has given you too much time to come up with someone to blame!!
Dutch Schaffaer
4 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:04:30
4 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:04:30
I thought Artetea had a reasonably good game. He had more of the ball in the first half and looked our most dangerous player. In the second half he faded but his set-pieces were the only thing giving Chelsea a scare.
Cahill on the other hand was poor. He lacks pace, doesn’t work as hard as he should and has very little creativity or passing ability.
Pudits always wonder how Cahill manages to pop up unmarked to score goals, the truth is usually he’s so out of the game that opponents forget he’s there, thats how he finds so much space to get these goals.
Cahill’s goals usually come when we need them most but when he doesn’t score all we have is a very average midfielder.
If Cahill was dropped it and in his place we had a midfielder who could create and run the game (Manny maybe?) then its likely we wouldn’t miss Cahill’s goals because AJ would get more chances.
Heck if we had a decent midfielder in place of Cahill then we could play 4-4-2. Imagine having two strikers feeding off a creative midfield maestro.
I wouldn’t complain if Moyes sold Cahill now while his values probably at its peak.
Cahill on the other hand was poor. He lacks pace, doesn’t work as hard as he should and has very little creativity or passing ability.
Pudits always wonder how Cahill manages to pop up unmarked to score goals, the truth is usually he’s so out of the game that opponents forget he’s there, thats how he finds so much space to get these goals.
Cahill’s goals usually come when we need them most but when he doesn’t score all we have is a very average midfielder.
If Cahill was dropped it and in his place we had a midfielder who could create and run the game (Manny maybe?) then its likely we wouldn’t miss Cahill’s goals because AJ would get more chances.
Heck if we had a decent midfielder in place of Cahill then we could play 4-4-2. Imagine having two strikers feeding off a creative midfield maestro.
I wouldn’t complain if Moyes sold Cahill now while his values probably at its peak.
Kieran Kinsella
5 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:19:17
5 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:19:17
In fairness to Cahill he is probably saving himself so he can play for Oz against Qatar in a couple of weeks ....... In all honesty though I think Cahill is kind of like David Platt. For quite a while he has been regarded as a good midfielder even though the only thing he has going for him is his goalscoring. I remember with Platt one day Arsenal suddenly dropped him and everyone was shocked at first but then we were like "well come to think of it he couldn’t tackle, he couldn’t pass, he couldn’t dribble....." I think the same will eventually happen with Cahill. If you want to score goals then be a striker. If you don’t score often enough to be a striker then be a super sub.
John Lloyd
6 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:21:06
6 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:21:06
madness, Arteta was double marked all game. Chelsea obviously realised that without Peanuts he is our only creative threat. I’d like to see any player in world barring C.Ronaldo or Messi do a job with 2 players continually at him every time the ball even looked like going near him.
Cahill didnt have one of his best games, victim of tactics & circumstance. the way Chelsea played meant he played as a striker rather than an attacking midfielder which he is. If you know anything about football you would realise the difference, so for Dutch to suggest selling him is fucking unbelievable!!!! I’m not getting into why that is the worst suggestion since Kirkby cos its so outrageous.
Cahill didnt have one of his best games, victim of tactics & circumstance. the way Chelsea played meant he played as a striker rather than an attacking midfielder which he is. If you know anything about football you would realise the difference, so for Dutch to suggest selling him is fucking unbelievable!!!! I’m not getting into why that is the worst suggestion since Kirkby cos its so outrageous.
Jay Campbell
7 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:29:38
7 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:29:38
The pair of them had a off night so what!br />
It’s just typical that on a night when we really needed them to perform to their maximum potential they didn’t but that’s life. Those two have contributed more than anybody in the last few years. Boss players end ov.
It’s just typical that on a night when we really needed them to perform to their maximum potential they didn’t but that’s life. Those two have contributed more than anybody in the last few years. Boss players end ov.
Dan McKie
8 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:39:54
8 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:39:54
Yakubu helps Cahills game no end, thats because with him on the pitch all Cahill has to do is the odd 1 touch pass, a little tracking back and most importantly getting in the box when all the opposition players are occupied with someone else! Last night he was expected to win all the headers and hold the ball up, if they were specific tactics then they should have started Vaughn or Anichebe!
James Elworthy
9 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:46:16
9 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:46:16
Cahill struggles supporting Johnson, he needs the big man to feed off and has been disappointing since the YAK went to Africa. I think the formation doesnt work with Johnson he is too small and lightweight the ball was continually pinged back by Chelsea, even the goal started from a long ball to Johson, won easily cleared to Malouda across field to Cole, Goal.
Arteta worked hard and showed flashes of skill, but has a tendency to slow the game down giving defenders time to regroup and get back.
Arteta worked hard and showed flashes of skill, but has a tendency to slow the game down giving defenders time to regroup and get back.
Clyde McPhatter
10 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:08:27
10 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:08:27
Cahill JUST MISSED scoring in the first five minutes of the game on a diving header. Carsley never plays as well after an early booking. The last two games where he gets an early yellow he has to sit back a little deeper and he loses his agression. Their ?keeper made 3 ridiculous saves all of them goal bound. And we played too deep giving too much ground. And Manny was HORRIBLE. He looked like he couldn?t get up to the pace of the game. I lost count of how many times he gave the ball away on a pass that didnt have enough pace to it. He?ll need time to get his game up to the speed in England.
Mick Dempsey
11 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:24:56
11 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:24:56
I don’t think our midfield is balanced, what is our best central midfielders, who is best out on the right ditto for left, Pienarr played right mid for South Africa last night, I love Carsley and he does a great job blocking and snapping, but lets be honest he’s not a makalee. I think if Moyes can sort the balance out we have the players to compete, I think if he does get another midfield play maker in, he might play Fernandes in the holding midfield postion. I think we are missing our 3 ANC players big time, Yobo and the Yak was missed last night, would have played Lescott on the left and maybe the Yak and AJ in a 4-4-4-2.
mick Mac
12 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:35:01
12 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:35:01
4-4-2
Ben Atkins
13 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:24:39
13 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:24:39
I think the 3 Africans would’ve made a huge difference last night. Yakubu can hold up the ball against big centre backs and bring other players into the game, Pienaar’s deft flicks and intelligence can unlock defences. Whilst Yobo’s involvement would’ve meant Lescott could play left back and get rampage forward better than Valente.
Also, I wish people would lay off Fernandes! In the first half he was great, dictating all of our attacks, he lost the ball a few times as he tired, but his potential is plain to see.
Also, I wish people would lay off Fernandes! In the first half he was great, dictating all of our attacks, he lost the ball a few times as he tired, but his potential is plain to see.
Paul Niklas
14 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:24:46
14 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:24:46
I dont blame Cahill or Arteta they are exceptional playeres for us, last night in my opinion had nothing to do with man marked out the game.
the issue was the formation, the formation that I thought would work before the game and it would if played to its potential.
Johnson cannot play up front on his own, his touch is poor and every time kicking long balls to him particualrly from Howard is a wate of time all that does is put pressure on the midfield to get up as close to him as possible, they cant do that if they are asked to play deep.
For most of the game last night we played with two holding midfielders carsley and fernandes it should have been only carsley but fernandes was deeper than him for most of the game.
We need Fernandes to be picking the ball up higher up the pitch and playing it to the likes of Johnson and Cahill and Arteta.
For the last 20 minutes for some reason cahill was almost the holding midfielder he cannot do that role and should nopt have been there.
We missed Yakuba and Piennar but with them back how will we play, if its five in midfield then sort out Fernandes to play infront of carsley not at his side.
Cahill looks tired at the moment as he did against Wigan the next weeks rest will help.
We had the players to play 442 last night and I wish we had done that at the beginning.
But I am not the manager its up to him he is doing a great job and we will progress last night we just got it wrong, we played well in spurts but against Chelsea you need to play like that all the time.
We will learn.
Heres to 4th and Europe.
Paul
the issue was the formation, the formation that I thought would work before the game and it would if played to its potential.
Johnson cannot play up front on his own, his touch is poor and every time kicking long balls to him particualrly from Howard is a wate of time all that does is put pressure on the midfield to get up as close to him as possible, they cant do that if they are asked to play deep.
For most of the game last night we played with two holding midfielders carsley and fernandes it should have been only carsley but fernandes was deeper than him for most of the game.
We need Fernandes to be picking the ball up higher up the pitch and playing it to the likes of Johnson and Cahill and Arteta.
For the last 20 minutes for some reason cahill was almost the holding midfielder he cannot do that role and should nopt have been there.
We missed Yakuba and Piennar but with them back how will we play, if its five in midfield then sort out Fernandes to play infront of carsley not at his side.
Cahill looks tired at the moment as he did against Wigan the next weeks rest will help.
We had the players to play 442 last night and I wish we had done that at the beginning.
But I am not the manager its up to him he is doing a great job and we will progress last night we just got it wrong, we played well in spurts but against Chelsea you need to play like that all the time.
We will learn.
Heres to 4th and Europe.
Paul
mick Mac
15 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:37:04
15 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:37:04
When the Yak, Piennar and Yobo return and hopefully all fit, I would play 4-4-2 at home and weaker opposition away, meaning Cahill would be on the bench. Put Lescott LB until Baines is fit, Valente for me is just a squad player. I also think we need a natural wide player on the right, move Arteta in the middle with Fernandes, Pienaar on the left and Ossie on the right.
Terry Lloyd
16 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:45:27
16 Posted 24/01/2008 at 15:45:27
Manuel Fernandes is a defensive midfield player he has played in this position since 2004 for Benfica and U21, that is his natural position. Cahill is suspended against Spurs so he can have a rest. What Everton need is a box to box midfield player, but they are rare, If people think Manuel Fernandes is one of these type of players he is not.
Jay Campbell
17 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:03:54
17 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:03:54
At least Fernandes was looking to play to feet all the time which is more than can be said about certain other players.
The easiest thing to do is hoof the ball up the park any idiot can do that. Don’t get on the case of a player who is looking to play football.
The easiest thing to do is hoof the ball up the park any idiot can do that. Don’t get on the case of a player who is looking to play football.
Paul Niklas
18 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:15:14
18 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:15:14
Terry????!!!
I am sure you must be reading another thread, I have not criticised Fernandes, I said he played in a position that carsley was playing, what was the point of that.
I would argue that he is not a defensive midfielder I personally have seen no evidence of that.
He is creative and skilful and sits perfectly in the middle of the park to pick up loose bals and drive us forward as well as take passes from defence.
Last night it was obvious he was asked to sit deep which was a waste of his talent.
Or are you telling me that we should have two holding midfielders. If so then we will become negative and never score goals.
like last night we only lokked dangerous on set pieces.
We need creativity Fernades, Cahill, Arteta, Osman and Piennar will give us that in abundance. Carsley and someone else will be the unsung heroes.
Everton will look for a strong holder in midfield to replace Carsley, I can gaurantee you one thing Fernandes is not that man.
I am sure you must be reading another thread, I have not criticised Fernandes, I said he played in a position that carsley was playing, what was the point of that.
I would argue that he is not a defensive midfielder I personally have seen no evidence of that.
He is creative and skilful and sits perfectly in the middle of the park to pick up loose bals and drive us forward as well as take passes from defence.
Last night it was obvious he was asked to sit deep which was a waste of his talent.
Or are you telling me that we should have two holding midfielders. If so then we will become negative and never score goals.
like last night we only lokked dangerous on set pieces.
We need creativity Fernades, Cahill, Arteta, Osman and Piennar will give us that in abundance. Carsley and someone else will be the unsung heroes.
Everton will look for a strong holder in midfield to replace Carsley, I can gaurantee you one thing Fernandes is not that man.
Paul Niklas
19 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:33:23
19 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:33:23
Michael please make a comment on this one, I am feeling like I have missed something fundamental and cant understand why someone would believe Fernandes is a holding midfielder, does anyone else think that.
If so I have lost the plot.
He is possibly the next best thing to Carsley we have in that position but that is not his game not even in his first stint here did we play him in that position. Please tell me he is not.
If so I have lost the plot.
He is possibly the next best thing to Carsley we have in that position but that is not his game not even in his first stint here did we play him in that position. Please tell me he is not.
Eddie O'Neill
20 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:11:31
20 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:11:31
Yes, I agree with you there Jay. Manny was the only player trying to play the ball to feet....which makes sense when you have small men up front. Other players were sending in high balls all night...load of bollix....and Nev kept throwing in high balls as well...Aj has no chance with those. I think over all we were beaten by a better team....but still can?t help thinking what might have happened if more of our players had played as well as they can. I thought Ossie wes terrible....Tiny was?ent much better...Aj should never be played up front on his own again. But no matter what happened I don?t think we?re up there with them yet. Someone said in an earlier post to play Manny in the holding role, and that could be a great idea
Anyway fuck it.....keep on smiling your an Evertonion!!!!!!!!!! Cheers!
Anyway fuck it.....keep on smiling your an Evertonion!!!!!!!!!! Cheers!
Mike Blackburn
21 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:04:22
21 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:04:22
All I can say is I?m gutted that we didn?t progress, but at least the team can focus on the prem and UEFA form from now on.
I thought Chelski just sat back content with picking us off and they did it...unfortunately (they had 5 back for their corner at one point), they done they?re hard work at Stamford bridge by getting a lead on us in the first place. Playing AJ by himself was a no-no, big defenders will see it as bread and butter to knock him off balance and keep him away from goal. Thats were Cahill and Arteta should step up, but Arteta just got doubled up on every time, Cahill looked tired after half-time as did Fernandes, he just needs minutes on the pitch at the mo. The passes he picks more often find a blue shirt and his harrassing of players to get the ball back was superb last night.
Would of liked to see big Victor come on abit earlier, instead of after their goal...timings everything when using a super sub, I?m sure he could of rattled them abit more with more minutes on the pitch.
As with everything this season it?s a big learning curve, and we will learn from this...Spurs will tumble next tho. COYB
I thought Chelski just sat back content with picking us off and they did it...unfortunately (they had 5 back for their corner at one point), they done they?re hard work at Stamford bridge by getting a lead on us in the first place. Playing AJ by himself was a no-no, big defenders will see it as bread and butter to knock him off balance and keep him away from goal. Thats were Cahill and Arteta should step up, but Arteta just got doubled up on every time, Cahill looked tired after half-time as did Fernandes, he just needs minutes on the pitch at the mo. The passes he picks more often find a blue shirt and his harrassing of players to get the ball back was superb last night.
Would of liked to see big Victor come on abit earlier, instead of after their goal...timings everything when using a super sub, I?m sure he could of rattled them abit more with more minutes on the pitch.
As with everything this season it?s a big learning curve, and we will learn from this...Spurs will tumble next tho. COYB
John Lloyd
22 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:37:51
22 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:37:51
Paul, he is a holding midfielder mate.
He is a more continental type one but that is his position, where he has played most of his career. His ability on/with the ball are what is needed in that position for top, top sides (Barca - marquez or edmilson, Real - diarra, Chelsea - makalele, Inter - cambiasso/viera, arsenal - flamini/gilberto the list goes on) but that is surely where we are aiming to be.
That is what Manny is, but because he is skillful he will help take the burden of Mikel & Peanuts as the only tecnical members of team but get it right Manny is a holding midfielder
I think Mourinho even once called him Manney-lele comparing him Claude, when he was at Chelsea
He is a more continental type one but that is his position, where he has played most of his career. His ability on/with the ball are what is needed in that position for top, top sides (Barca - marquez or edmilson, Real - diarra, Chelsea - makalele, Inter - cambiasso/viera, arsenal - flamini/gilberto the list goes on) but that is surely where we are aiming to be.
That is what Manny is, but because he is skillful he will help take the burden of Mikel & Peanuts as the only tecnical members of team but get it right Manny is a holding midfielder
I think Mourinho even once called him Manney-lele comparing him Claude, when he was at Chelsea
Paul Niklas
23 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:53:41
23 Posted 24/01/2008 at 16:53:41
Thanks John, I accept your point however if that is his preferred position then with the creative side also we should not be playing 5 Iin midfield.
It has to be 442 or 4141 with cahill ahead of Arteta, Piennar and Osman.
Problem with 4141 is that its one of Yakuba, Johnson and the two kids.
Because we will always try to fit in Cahill.
Paul.
It has to be 442 or 4141 with cahill ahead of Arteta, Piennar and Osman.
Problem with 4141 is that its one of Yakuba, Johnson and the two kids.
Because we will always try to fit in Cahill.
Paul.
Terry Lloyd
24 Posted 24/01/2008 at 17:11:41
24 Posted 24/01/2008 at 17:11:41
Paul I am no expert on midfielders but Manny is a holding/defensive call it what you want but that is the position he has been playing since he was a kid. He is very skillful, but if you watch him play he will score goals and move forward in a passing move, but he usually drops back once he has released the ball. I am not sure what Moyes wants from him but I see him in the Gilberto role, someone who can distribute the ball calmly and effectively
Paul Niklas
25 Posted 24/01/2008 at 17:28:59
25 Posted 24/01/2008 at 17:28:59
Thanks Terry, how then should we set up in your opinion or anyone elses for that matter, as I see it Cahill will play a lot less if he does play that way, Arsenal, Utd would not have a five in midfield in this instance.
I would like to think we could play the 5, but then the bit part players become the 4 strikers.
Moyes has some difficult decisions to make particularly if as reported he brings in another midfielder.
PAUL
I would like to think we could play the 5, but then the bit part players become the 4 strikers.
Moyes has some difficult decisions to make particularly if as reported he brings in another midfielder.
PAUL
John Lloyd
26 Posted 24/01/2008 at 17:31:25
26 Posted 24/01/2008 at 17:31:25
I think we SHOULD always try & fit Cahill in & the competition for places is good for now, which is why the 4141 suits us...for now. But over the next few years though it will be different, Cars will be older & the young ladss wont be as young. But we’ll have to wait an see on that one......I’m not doctor who!! ha ha
Terry Lloyd
27 Posted 24/01/2008 at 17:55:28
27 Posted 24/01/2008 at 17:55:28
Paul to be honest I think Manny will be used as a all round midfield player, not box to box but I do see Carsley being relegated to the bench if Moyes deploys 4-4-2, Arteta and Fernandes in the middle, with Manny doing the holding job and Arteta more forward. This leaves Cahill and Carsley on the bench, with Pienar and Ossie out wide, thats just my opinion, play 4-4-1-1 then it changes who he plays. Tinker man comes to mind
Pete Gunby
28 Posted 24/01/2008 at 17:53:16
28 Posted 24/01/2008 at 17:53:16
I like Mick Dempsey?s 4-4-4-2 . It would give us better balance and enable Moyes to get both Hibbo and Nev. on the park without ruining our midfield. I thank Mick for thinking outside the box. It has encouraged me to get my sons U-10 team to try the dreaded 5-4-3-2-1-2 buckle-my- shoe formation on Saturday. I?ll let you know how it goes. It will probably be critisized by all you purists but if we dare to be innovative we just may crack the big 3 or er 4 or 2 or whatever it is. Keep your heads up Evertonians. Havant and Waterlooville for the Cup.
Mick Dempsey
29 Posted 24/01/2008 at 18:25:05
29 Posted 24/01/2008 at 18:25:05
Pete thanks for being so observant with my typo, but even a man of your humour can get the picture and Gunbye to you to commedian
Tom Campbell
30 Posted 24/01/2008 at 19:07:46
30 Posted 24/01/2008 at 19:07:46
Hopefully Moyes will play 2 up front gainst Spurs, now that Cahill is out.
Ron Leith
31 Posted 24/01/2008 at 19:40:18
31 Posted 24/01/2008 at 19:40:18
Last night just illiustrated that Cahill and Arteta are able to play very well against teams on our level. Unfortunately, Chelsea were just a bit bettter than us. They defended so well that we were restricted to about 3 chances all game. Alex was a revelation and Carvalio is just a brilliant player. This sole searching is crap. We have a very good team but need to keep improving. Chelsea were playing their second choice striker that cost them £15million, their third choice striker cost £30million and their first chioce cost £24 miilion. Cahill and Arteta cost about £5million in total.
Pete Gunby
32 Posted 24/01/2008 at 19:35:44
32 Posted 24/01/2008 at 19:35:44
Mick, I do get the picture and agree with your observations about our team. My not so sophisticated humour was not meant to offend . COYB and Dempseeyou at GP
Roy Coyne
33 Posted 25/01/2008 at 02:10:36
33 Posted 25/01/2008 at 02:10:36
I cant believe people having a go at Manny. I thought he looked to play the killer ball when he could and had a reasonable game. We only had two problems: Chelsea are a better team than us and playing one up-front played into their hands. That said, with the guys not available, it was a no-win thing for Moyes. If he played two up and we lost he would have been told he should have played one.
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1 Posted 24/01/2008 at 14:02:02