The Mail Bag
Midfield four
Comments (22)
I have read lots of reports on this website that we are not being attacking enough and we are playing too much long football following the match at Chelsea. I agree with these reports and may have the solution.
Now be honest? Doesn't a midfield of Fernandes, Osman, Pienaar and Arteta sound awesome! I know Carsley has been brilliant and people will disagree with me about dropping him when he has done nothing wrong. But against lower opposition, surely just try this midfield quartet out?
I mean I know Fernandes can play the holding midfield role, because he kept swapping that position with Carsley at the Chelsea match, I remember Carsley the furthest one up the field in one move.
I know it seems a bit lightweight midfield four, but against smaller opposition and with the creativity of that midfield, it would be great football to watch, and our fans deserve to watch great football following on from the great football earlier in the season.
I remember Moyes playing Li Tie and Linderoth in centre midfield, two lightweight good-passing midfielders, and that worked very well, weirdly. So this midfield four has every reason to work...
Ben Jones, Posted 26/01/2008 at 12:54:20
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Paul Gladwell
2 Posted 26/01/2008 at 16:34:24
2 Posted 26/01/2008 at 16:34:24
Sorry at this moment in time the formation is right especially against the top three, It is tried and trusted and has been the main ingredient of our improvement.
In time and progress with better players yes, but not now and why because we failed to score against the best defensive side in the land?
The reason we lost was all to do with the first leg , this provided Chelsea to play the tactics they did and as for the Li Tie and Lindroth shout ! Sorry Ben mate the odd half good game here and there does not work out as a success .
As Paul mentioned though, a plan B other than our wide players switching wings is needed
In time and progress with better players yes, but not now and why because we failed to score against the best defensive side in the land?
The reason we lost was all to do with the first leg , this provided Chelsea to play the tactics they did and as for the Li Tie and Lindroth shout ! Sorry Ben mate the odd half good game here and there does not work out as a success .
As Paul mentioned though, a plan B other than our wide players switching wings is needed
James James
3 Posted 26/01/2008 at 17:26:30
3 Posted 26/01/2008 at 17:26:30
Paul, I think Cahill would come into this role as the 2nd striker.
Seve Jones
4 Posted 26/01/2008 at 17:53:44
4 Posted 26/01/2008 at 17:53:44
Ben I can?t remeber too many games Linderoth & Li Tie played together and to be fair Linderoth wasis a defensive midfielder similair to Carsley but perhaps with a bit more skill & creativity!
Tony Williams
5 Posted 26/01/2008 at 19:32:03
5 Posted 26/01/2008 at 19:32:03
We will probably find out on Wednesday night whether we can play a successful 4-4-2, as Cahill and Hibbert are banned so unless we bring Stubbs in next to Lescott and move Jags to right back, Neville will be at right back and we simply do not have enough experienced players for a 4-5-1, unless Moyes asks AJ to play on the wing.
If Moyes cannot get a decent midfielder soon, he may aswell have a punt on Vogel for a free just to get numbers in whilst we are short.
If Moyes cannot get a decent midfielder soon, he may aswell have a punt on Vogel for a free just to get numbers in whilst we are short.
Brian Garside
6 Posted 26/01/2008 at 19:58:06
6 Posted 26/01/2008 at 19:58:06
Linderoth is still a formidable internationaly rated DM. Should never have been sold. Ball,Robinsson+Kaka should be sighned!!!
Lee Spargo
7 Posted 26/01/2008 at 20:38:12
7 Posted 26/01/2008 at 20:38:12
I think we’re doing quite well as it is to be honest.
Roy Coyne
8 Posted 26/01/2008 at 23:14:59
8 Posted 26/01/2008 at 23:14:59
I understand that we should be looking for a replacement for Carsley but feel that, while we are in a position to challenge for the CL, it's not the right time to replace Lee... although I am sure, with a bit more experiance, Manny could do the job.
Jim Hourigan
9 Posted 26/01/2008 at 23:29:39
9 Posted 26/01/2008 at 23:29:39
Three out of the four I agree with but I’m sorry Osman is a complete lightweight. He has no pace, lacks strength and only plays well against poor sides who give him the space to play. Name 3 matches against decent sides (not even the top 3), when he played well and made a significant contribution. He’s a nice lad and a trier but he has not got enough ability to worry any team of quality. Ignoring the midfields of the top 3, in which of the following would he get a place in midfield and instead of whom - Villa, Blackburn, Spurs, Man City, RS and perhaps even Pompey and the barcodes. Lovely, likeable lad but out of his depth.
Dick Fearon
10 Posted 27/01/2008 at 01:53:03
10 Posted 27/01/2008 at 01:53:03
I completely agree with Jim and wonder if he will suffer the slings and arrows that I did when suggesting precisely the same things about Osman.
Rich Williams
11 Posted 27/01/2008 at 02:12:35
11 Posted 27/01/2008 at 02:12:35
I like Osman. I am glad he plays for us.
Michael Hunt
12 Posted 27/01/2008 at 03:00:48
12 Posted 27/01/2008 at 03:00:48
Joe Cole rates Osman as a top player. On the evidence of my own eyes too, I agree with him. For his size, he’s quite good at tackling and winning the ball back, he gets knocked off the ball at times but against big grocs, so does Arteta and Pienaar. Being pint sized has it’s drawback. I love Carsley but we could do with a big midfield general/enforcer type to help combat the extra power of midfielders like Lampard, Gerrard, Ballack, Mikel, Gilberto (even Boupa Diop, Jenas, Muntari, Reo Coker etc). Ossie works his nads off and is quality on the ball, sees a pass, has vision and movement. If Manny can be the midfield general we need then fantastic. For me, it may be one of only Osman and Cahill should play in a four. Cahill coming off the bench when appropriate is not something I’d be unhappy to see.
Dave Wilson
13 Posted 27/01/2008 at 07:24:12
13 Posted 27/01/2008 at 07:24:12
Time people took the blinkers off were Manny is concerned, yes he’s capable of moments of brilliance - Man U last year a perfect example - but has everyone suddenly forgot how often he gives the ball away ?
Carsley is an absolute must - unless some one can stump up the money for Makellele or Essien - Arteta too is a must, as is Pienarr, the rest although prem standard, are either too inconsistant, too workmanlike or lack the athletism to trouble the top boys regularly, 4-4-2 would be great every week, but unless we get a top top midfield powerhouse, the tools we’ve got will continue to dictate our system
Carsley is an absolute must - unless some one can stump up the money for Makellele or Essien - Arteta too is a must, as is Pienarr, the rest although prem standard, are either too inconsistant, too workmanlike or lack the athletism to trouble the top boys regularly, 4-4-2 would be great every week, but unless we get a top top midfield powerhouse, the tools we’ve got will continue to dictate our system
Ian Ankers
14 Posted 27/01/2008 at 12:34:06
14 Posted 27/01/2008 at 12:34:06
BEN JONES WROTE:
Now be honest? Doesn?t a midfield of Fernandes, Osman, Pienaar and Arteta sound awesome!
To be ?Honest? Ben, I don?t think that midfield does sound all that awesome. It sounds good, but that?s as far as I?d go. Osman is too ?on and off? for me and I?ve noticed especially when we go behind in games or things aren?t going well, he disappears from games completely. On his day, I like Osman, but he is way too inconsistent. I have high hopes for fernandes, but think he has a lot to prove before he can win the ?awesome? accolade. Arteta has obvious talents and would get in most midfields and I?m really warming to Pienaar also. Alot of people are going on about how we?re missing the Yak, which I totally agree with, but Pienaar is also a massive loss at the moment.
I just feel that the midfield four you have stated looks pretty good in theory, but in practise I think it may be a little lightweight, especially in games when we are really up against it or behind!
Now be honest? Doesn?t a midfield of Fernandes, Osman, Pienaar and Arteta sound awesome!
To be ?Honest? Ben, I don?t think that midfield does sound all that awesome. It sounds good, but that?s as far as I?d go. Osman is too ?on and off? for me and I?ve noticed especially when we go behind in games or things aren?t going well, he disappears from games completely. On his day, I like Osman, but he is way too inconsistent. I have high hopes for fernandes, but think he has a lot to prove before he can win the ?awesome? accolade. Arteta has obvious talents and would get in most midfields and I?m really warming to Pienaar also. Alot of people are going on about how we?re missing the Yak, which I totally agree with, but Pienaar is also a massive loss at the moment.
I just feel that the midfield four you have stated looks pretty good in theory, but in practise I think it may be a little lightweight, especially in games when we are really up against it or behind!
John Johnson
15 Posted 27/01/2008 at 14:22:05
15 Posted 27/01/2008 at 14:22:05
Have to agree the main one from the African nations we are missing is Pienaar. I think he has & does put 100% in at every game. Along with the skill & entheusiasm he has he reminds me a bit of Alan Ball. My opinion (remember we are all entitled to one) is that he is afar better long term prospect than Manny who has still to prove consistency. By the way does anyone know should Nigeria &/or S .Africa get knocked out early as they well could , do the players come straight back ?
Ian Ankers
16 Posted 27/01/2008 at 15:23:19
16 Posted 27/01/2008 at 15:23:19
John Johnson,
Yes if Nigeria go out, which is looking likely, the two lads could be home by midweek. In major tournaments, the teams usually get straight on a plane the day after the final group game.
I’d assume it would then be a while before we seem them in the blue shirt again. Even if they came home midweek they’d obviously miss the Spurs game and probably Blackburn away next weekend. Reading the weekend after seems the most likely!
As for Pienaar, i’d have to agree. At this moment in time at least, I’d rather Moyes made his loan a permanent move over Manuels any day. that opinion could change depending on how Manny settles, but like I said, at present I’d take Pienaar first, but hey! Lets be greedy and have both please.
Yes if Nigeria go out, which is looking likely, the two lads could be home by midweek. In major tournaments, the teams usually get straight on a plane the day after the final group game.
I’d assume it would then be a while before we seem them in the blue shirt again. Even if they came home midweek they’d obviously miss the Spurs game and probably Blackburn away next weekend. Reading the weekend after seems the most likely!
As for Pienaar, i’d have to agree. At this moment in time at least, I’d rather Moyes made his loan a permanent move over Manuels any day. that opinion could change depending on how Manny settles, but like I said, at present I’d take Pienaar first, but hey! Lets be greedy and have both please.
Rupert Sulivan
17 Posted 27/01/2008 at 16:28:25
17 Posted 27/01/2008 at 16:28:25
After what I have seen so far I would agree that Pienaar is a must for us to make permanent in the summer: EFC are missing him more than anyone else at the moment.
Connor Rohrer
18 Posted 27/01/2008 at 17:30:43
18 Posted 27/01/2008 at 17:30:43
Dave Wilson, are you being serious. Fernandes hardly ever gives the ball away. I’ll accept he did against Chelsea but that was his first match in ages and he’s bound to be a bit rusty. I agree he can go missing but whenever he has the ball he uses it very well.
He’s probably the best passer at the club. The likes of Pienaar, Arteta and Osman have good short passing ranges but in terms of long passing and spotting through ball non can do it like Fernandes. He’s also the strongest out of the four and keeps the ball very well using his upper body strength.
No one needs to take the blinkers off. We all know he can improve as can every player but we also know he’s a very talented player and in terms of central midfielders he’s the best one we have.
In European Football at Goodison my midfield would be Fernandes and Arteta in the middle, Osman on the right and Pienaar on the left. The aim of the game in the Uefa cup is to keep the ball and dictate the game. If you keep the ball more than your opponents then generally your onto a winner.
In terms of ball playing central midfielders the best two we have are Arteta and Fernandes. They both have the best passing ranges and they both can run a game from the middle of the park. I’d play Osman on the right because atleast he’s on his better foot and can keep the ball better. When he plays on the left he loses the ball alot but when he’s on the right or in the middle of a five man midfield he’s neat and tidy. Pienaar would obviously be on the left because he’s the best player we have to play there. He looks more comfortable on the left than the right despite being right footed.
But in the Premiership its a different situation. We need someone like Carsley in there to give us some physicality.
He’s probably the best passer at the club. The likes of Pienaar, Arteta and Osman have good short passing ranges but in terms of long passing and spotting through ball non can do it like Fernandes. He’s also the strongest out of the four and keeps the ball very well using his upper body strength.
No one needs to take the blinkers off. We all know he can improve as can every player but we also know he’s a very talented player and in terms of central midfielders he’s the best one we have.
In European Football at Goodison my midfield would be Fernandes and Arteta in the middle, Osman on the right and Pienaar on the left. The aim of the game in the Uefa cup is to keep the ball and dictate the game. If you keep the ball more than your opponents then generally your onto a winner.
In terms of ball playing central midfielders the best two we have are Arteta and Fernandes. They both have the best passing ranges and they both can run a game from the middle of the park. I’d play Osman on the right because atleast he’s on his better foot and can keep the ball better. When he plays on the left he loses the ball alot but when he’s on the right or in the middle of a five man midfield he’s neat and tidy. Pienaar would obviously be on the left because he’s the best player we have to play there. He looks more comfortable on the left than the right despite being right footed.
But in the Premiership its a different situation. We need someone like Carsley in there to give us some physicality.
Dave Wilson
19 Posted 27/01/2008 at 18:45:08
19 Posted 27/01/2008 at 18:45:08
Sorry, Connor
but i couldn't disagree more, Manny continually goes for the killer pass ? even when it isn't on, I?ll be only too happy if you can post " I told you so " in a month or so.
Valencia don't let you go if you don't give the ball away...
but i couldn't disagree more, Manny continually goes for the killer pass ? even when it isn't on, I?ll be only too happy if you can post " I told you so " in a month or so.
Valencia don't let you go if you don't give the ball away...
Tony Williams
20 Posted 27/01/2008 at 20:12:32
20 Posted 27/01/2008 at 20:12:32
You are probably right Dave, I hope you are not but there is also one other big reason why Fernandes will be best shut of Valencia, in that he has previous with Koeman.
It seems like the man just doesn’t like him, maybe that is to our advantage as he may want to offload him and hopefully we can get him for a better price than what was on the books last summer. If Moyes wants him!
It seems like the man just doesn’t like him, maybe that is to our advantage as he may want to offload him and hopefully we can get him for a better price than what was on the books last summer. If Moyes wants him!
Connor Rohrer
21 Posted 27/01/2008 at 21:09:50
21 Posted 27/01/2008 at 21:09:50
Dave are you judging Fernandes’s passing on Wednesdays game? I’ll agree he was trying to play the killer ball but he was trying to force the game and break down a stubborn defense. What would you rather he did pass backwards and sideways?
In the rest of his games though his passing was very good. short and long. In which games did he continually go for the killer pass? I remember the Arsenal game but his passing was immense that game.
I still believe his passing is the best at the club. Pienaar is neat and tidy but doesn’t have as much vision as Fernandes, Arteta probably does have a good passing range but he usually keeps it short and simple.
Are you telling me Valencia let him go because he couldn’t pass a ball? Don’t make me laugh. He made 12 appearances for Valencia and most weren’t even starts so thats hardly enough time on the pitch to prove yourself. He left Valencia because Koeman simply didn’t like him because of the time at Benfica.
In the rest of his games though his passing was very good. short and long. In which games did he continually go for the killer pass? I remember the Arsenal game but his passing was immense that game.
I still believe his passing is the best at the club. Pienaar is neat and tidy but doesn’t have as much vision as Fernandes, Arteta probably does have a good passing range but he usually keeps it short and simple.
Are you telling me Valencia let him go because he couldn’t pass a ball? Don’t make me laugh. He made 12 appearances for Valencia and most weren’t even starts so thats hardly enough time on the pitch to prove yourself. He left Valencia because Koeman simply didn’t like him because of the time at Benfica.
Brian Garside
22 Posted 27/01/2008 at 22:44:03
22 Posted 27/01/2008 at 22:44:03
Michael Carrick anyone?
He would leave manure tomorrow.
He would leave manure tomorrow.
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1 Posted 26/01/2008 at 15:55:42
I’m a fan of the 5 man midfield, it just works for us, but we do need a plan B (take note Wyness!) so at some point we’ll need to find a way to make 4-4-2 work.