The Mail Bag
Model Pro or Big No-No?
Comments (15)
Phil Neville...
To me, he is the biggest mystery in football. Is it just me? What is it I'm missing?
I hear many ex-footballers and many current footballing people talking about how Phil Neville is the model professional and I have to agree, you can't fault his commitment and attitude, in fact it's first class. The question I have: Is that enough?
Yes, he's won more medals than most and Sir Alex had him on his books for many a year and he's no mug, but I just cannot see for the life of me what he has to offer as a footballer and by that I mean actually playing football! Just watch him in any given game (or at least 9 out of every 10), all he seems to ever do is give the ball away or give away stupid free kicks and I truly believe he offers nothing else. It's ok to have commitment, experience and desire etc. but he is truly a very poor footballer. He has his fans, I know, but are these people fans of his attitude alone or are they also fans of what he can do with a football?
Surely the main focus has to be on his game and not his attitude or his medals list and if so I really cannot understand how he has made a career for himself at the top level. There's something about him, that I cannot deny, but I also cannot say what it is because it baffles me! When I watch him (and I mean really watch him and pay close attention to what he's doing) I really cannot beleive he's got away with it all these years!
So is it just me? Help! Tell me what it is you're seeing, Phil Neville Fans!
Ian Ankers, Posted 30/01/2008 at 17:30:20
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simar
2 Posted 30/01/2008 at 21:53:17
2 Posted 30/01/2008 at 21:53:17
I feel I must offer some objection to this ’criticism’ on Phil Neville. Firstly, he is not a central midfield player and when he plays there his passing is simply not good enough. Criticism of his playing abiltiy and not his commitment is justifeid when he plays there.
However , is it no coincidence that when he plays in his proper position of right back the team has consistently played its best football and enjoyed its best run of results since the 80s?
The man has hardly missed a game in 3 seasons and we are currently on track to finish in the top 6 for the first time in a long long time and this with him as club captain.
Ive dont rate him as the best right back in the country but I wouldnt refer to him as a ’very poor footballer’. ’Very poor footballers’ dont win 6 league titles and have an influence in taking our club onto the next level.
However , is it no coincidence that when he plays in his proper position of right back the team has consistently played its best football and enjoyed its best run of results since the 80s?
The man has hardly missed a game in 3 seasons and we are currently on track to finish in the top 6 for the first time in a long long time and this with him as club captain.
Ive dont rate him as the best right back in the country but I wouldnt refer to him as a ’very poor footballer’. ’Very poor footballers’ dont win 6 league titles and have an influence in taking our club onto the next level.
Peter Hall
3 Posted 30/01/2008 at 22:07:05
3 Posted 30/01/2008 at 22:07:05
He’ll be a good manager if he hasn’t earned too much too care. After all, he’s been a ’model pro’ without doing anything you can’t see every fortnight at Prenton Park. Ands you don’t have to kick the ball to be a manager.
Who does he remind me of . . .? Oh yes, Moyesy. What a laugh when he tells Lescott what a centre back should achieve ’like I did’ As if Moyesey ever played one match like Lescott did tonight!
Yes Davey - you were better than Sven and the Special one - leave it at that!
Who does he remind me of . . .? Oh yes, Moyesy. What a laugh when he tells Lescott what a centre back should achieve ’like I did’ As if Moyesey ever played one match like Lescott did tonight!
Yes Davey - you were better than Sven and the Special one - leave it at that!
Robert Carney
4 Posted 30/01/2008 at 22:12:05
4 Posted 30/01/2008 at 22:12:05
Jesus Christ almighty.
Who are we going to knock next. In the last couple of weeks we have had , Cahill, Hibbert, Carsley, Osman, etc etc.
No wonder people think we are fickle.
We still have a way to go but for fucks sake get behind the team before this site is boycotted by fellow Evertonians.
Who are we going to knock next. In the last couple of weeks we have had , Cahill, Hibbert, Carsley, Osman, etc etc.
No wonder people think we are fickle.
We still have a way to go but for fucks sake get behind the team before this site is boycotted by fellow Evertonians.
Davey Militwitch
5 Posted 30/01/2008 at 22:27:58
5 Posted 30/01/2008 at 22:27:58
Robert, do you ever get the feeling you are banging your head against a brick wall?
Arteta will be next....
Arteta will be next....
Mike Coates
6 Posted 30/01/2008 at 22:39:47
6 Posted 30/01/2008 at 22:39:47
From my observations, he’s not crap. But he’s far from great. I just get upset, that I feel that he’s taking a place from a player that more deserves that position, or can play that position better, because he is captain.
As Moyes may feel Hibbert is available to play in right back, Neville is then shifted to midfield robbing another player (who the majority are much greater than him) from that position.
Hibbert and Neville still both have their up and down days in right back. Hibbert more recently shines against the top teams at right back, Neville against mid table-lower teams.
Today, Neville did well, getting in and stealing the ball at right back. But he should stay there, as running up past Arteta, I believe Arteta sees his run and thinks "ok, this time I’m going to pass it to Nev and hope he does something special" but it 80% of the time results in a cross thats too high and far and ineffective. Killing off a great run of play.
Yeah he’s good, he’s good at right back. But he needs more. Sure Hibbert doesn’t run the flank as much, and only hoofs it up. So the real answer is who can we get to play there instead? Perhaps TRAIN these players more to run with the ball, keep it down, and use our midfielders. Too much is relied on Johnson’s ability to bring the ball to his feet.
Going on todays game, Fernandes has the ability to create chances up forward, so pass it to him!!
Keep feeding Fernandes, he’ll feed the fowards and flanks.. But stay back Nev. Let Arteta do it!
As Moyes may feel Hibbert is available to play in right back, Neville is then shifted to midfield robbing another player (who the majority are much greater than him) from that position.
Hibbert and Neville still both have their up and down days in right back. Hibbert more recently shines against the top teams at right back, Neville against mid table-lower teams.
Today, Neville did well, getting in and stealing the ball at right back. But he should stay there, as running up past Arteta, I believe Arteta sees his run and thinks "ok, this time I’m going to pass it to Nev and hope he does something special" but it 80% of the time results in a cross thats too high and far and ineffective. Killing off a great run of play.
Yeah he’s good, he’s good at right back. But he needs more. Sure Hibbert doesn’t run the flank as much, and only hoofs it up. So the real answer is who can we get to play there instead? Perhaps TRAIN these players more to run with the ball, keep it down, and use our midfielders. Too much is relied on Johnson’s ability to bring the ball to his feet.
Going on todays game, Fernandes has the ability to create chances up forward, so pass it to him!!
Keep feeding Fernandes, he’ll feed the fowards and flanks.. But stay back Nev. Let Arteta do it!
Dave Randles
7 Posted 30/01/2008 at 22:38:49
7 Posted 30/01/2008 at 22:38:49
Robert Carney/Davey Militwitch,
If team selection was down to you pair then we’d still be stuck with the likes of John O’Kane, John Oster and Tony Thomas.
FACT: - There are better right backs/holding midfielders out there than Phil Neville.
FACT: - Looking forward and replacing players who do not make the grade is the only way we will impprove.
FACT: - Arteta is good enough and so is Cahill, but again another fact, if better players than them are available and within our budget we should move heaven and earth to sign them.
So far as I am concerned Phil Neville’s contribution is questionable, but then Moyes and Alex Ferguson are both far better judges than I will ever be. I’ll happily concede that a man with as many medals and caps as Neville must be doing something right, only the thing is, I honestly don’t see what it is! He certainly can’t pass but I’ll concede that his defending is (just) okay. So come on, the model pro bit aside, instead of whinging about negativity on this board, tell us what it is you like about him and you never know, you may even open this cynics eyes a bit!
If team selection was down to you pair then we’d still be stuck with the likes of John O’Kane, John Oster and Tony Thomas.
FACT: - There are better right backs/holding midfielders out there than Phil Neville.
FACT: - Looking forward and replacing players who do not make the grade is the only way we will impprove.
FACT: - Arteta is good enough and so is Cahill, but again another fact, if better players than them are available and within our budget we should move heaven and earth to sign them.
So far as I am concerned Phil Neville’s contribution is questionable, but then Moyes and Alex Ferguson are both far better judges than I will ever be. I’ll happily concede that a man with as many medals and caps as Neville must be doing something right, only the thing is, I honestly don’t see what it is! He certainly can’t pass but I’ll concede that his defending is (just) okay. So come on, the model pro bit aside, instead of whinging about negativity on this board, tell us what it is you like about him and you never know, you may even open this cynics eyes a bit!
James Corbett
8 Posted 30/01/2008 at 23:15:47
8 Posted 30/01/2008 at 23:15:47
For sure he has his limitations and he should never be considered as a midfielder unless circumstances demand it. But think about it: name a BETTER right back in the Premiership from outside the ’big three’?
Ian Ankers
9 Posted 30/01/2008 at 23:37:10
9 Posted 30/01/2008 at 23:37:10
Robert Carney Wrote:
Jesus Christ almighty.
Who are we going to knock next. In the last couple of weeks we have had , Cahill, Hibbert, Carsley, Osman, etc etc.
I agree with you to a cerain extent, I really am not one to be negative in general and I’m never too quick to have a go at players (most of my previous posts with prove this), but I’m merely asking the question, what is it that Phil neville brings other than experience and attitude? What does he really give us as a footballer? There was a time when we had to souley rely on commitment and the dogs of war attitude because we had nothing else to offer, but i for one am starting to beleive that we are now worth a little more than that and while commitment and effort will always be welcome and essential, surely you can and have to have something more now to warrant a place in a side trying to get where we want to be.
I’m not saying, Phil neville is awful and that’s that, but what I am doing is asking the question, is he good enough and what does he give us from a practical footballing point of view. I also read "Is there a better right back outside the top 3 in the prem than Neville".....well I’ve a feeling for a start that we may have one in Jags if he could get a run there in the future! Tonight against Spurs he was outstanding again at centre back and I’ve heard on the grapevine that right back is his preffered and best position?
Jesus Christ almighty.
Who are we going to knock next. In the last couple of weeks we have had , Cahill, Hibbert, Carsley, Osman, etc etc.
I agree with you to a cerain extent, I really am not one to be negative in general and I’m never too quick to have a go at players (most of my previous posts with prove this), but I’m merely asking the question, what is it that Phil neville brings other than experience and attitude? What does he really give us as a footballer? There was a time when we had to souley rely on commitment and the dogs of war attitude because we had nothing else to offer, but i for one am starting to beleive that we are now worth a little more than that and while commitment and effort will always be welcome and essential, surely you can and have to have something more now to warrant a place in a side trying to get where we want to be.
I’m not saying, Phil neville is awful and that’s that, but what I am doing is asking the question, is he good enough and what does he give us from a practical footballing point of view. I also read "Is there a better right back outside the top 3 in the prem than Neville".....well I’ve a feeling for a start that we may have one in Jags if he could get a run there in the future! Tonight against Spurs he was outstanding again at centre back and I’ve heard on the grapevine that right back is his preffered and best position?
Dave Randles
10 Posted 30/01/2008 at 23:50:01
10 Posted 30/01/2008 at 23:50:01
"But think about it: name a BETTER right back in the Premiership from outside the ?big three??"
Micah Richards
Alan Hutton
Steve Finnan
Lucas Neill
Micah Richards
Alan Hutton
Steve Finnan
Lucas Neill
John Martin
11 Posted 30/01/2008 at 23:55:55
11 Posted 30/01/2008 at 23:55:55
Neville is an excellent right back and i am more than happy with him there, he is also a leader, somebody earlier said he shouldnt shout at senior players who are better than him, ffs thats a captains job or should the best player in the team be captain, i wonder does Gary Neville ever moan at Ronaldo of course he does he is the captain thats what they do.
today he was played into trouble by arteta near the corner flag he did the best he could to get it away but got slaughtered for it but no mention of the crazy pass that forced the situation by Arteta, i feel fans always want somebody to moan at and choose him because he is not a glamorous player. He has his flaws as all players do but most of our fans arnt happy unlesss there is a scapegoat to moan at.
He does a good job and doesnt deserve some of the crap people spout on here.
today he was played into trouble by arteta near the corner flag he did the best he could to get it away but got slaughtered for it but no mention of the crazy pass that forced the situation by Arteta, i feel fans always want somebody to moan at and choose him because he is not a glamorous player. He has his flaws as all players do but most of our fans arnt happy unlesss there is a scapegoat to moan at.
He does a good job and doesnt deserve some of the crap people spout on here.
Stuart Reid
12 Posted 31/01/2008 at 01:34:35
12 Posted 31/01/2008 at 01:34:35
I don’t rate Phil Neville at all as a central midfielder, especially alongside Carsley as two holding players totally stifles creativity. Neville is just not suited to this position.
However I much prefer him at right back. A modern full back has to offer something going forward and Hibbert doesn’t. Hibbo may be a good defender but when we get the ball we may as well have ten men when he plays. Neville is not the best crosser at times but he does occasionally deliver a decent ball.
Neither of them are really good enough but spending money on this position should come after we have sorted out midfield creativity.
However I much prefer him at right back. A modern full back has to offer something going forward and Hibbert doesn’t. Hibbo may be a good defender but when we get the ball we may as well have ten men when he plays. Neville is not the best crosser at times but he does occasionally deliver a decent ball.
Neither of them are really good enough but spending money on this position should come after we have sorted out midfield creativity.
Dan Mckie
13 Posted 31/01/2008 at 09:04:06
13 Posted 31/01/2008 at 09:04:06
Phil Nev played pretty poorly last night against spurs but that wasnt the norm from him, however, lets give him a bit of a break eh, everyone bleats on about Pienaar,Arteta,Cahill and Fernandes being tired because of too many/not enough games but nobody mentions Phil who plays every game almost whereever he is asked to play, why cant he have a game where tiredness takes its effect? Lastly, Dave Randles, Finnan and Neill are nowhere near as good as Nev and another you mention who has played well in Scotland and does good for the scottish national side so must be brilliant, yes McFadden!! I mean erm Alan Hutton - not fit to clean Phil Nevs boots!
Paul OHanlon
14 Posted 31/01/2008 at 09:54:32
14 Posted 31/01/2008 at 09:54:32
He is a model Pro and he’s also a decent right back, but I don’t think he should be captain of our club. For me a captain first and foremost needs to lead by example on the pitch with his performances. When was the last time Neville produced a MOM performance or was the main reason for victory?
Can’t argue with him being in the team given our current squad, but I feel the captaincy needs to be reviewed in the summer (Lescott’s my shout for what it’s worth)
Can’t argue with him being in the team given our current squad, but I feel the captaincy needs to be reviewed in the summer (Lescott’s my shout for what it’s worth)
Gavin Ramejkis
15 Posted 31/01/2008 at 10:04:07
15 Posted 31/01/2008 at 10:04:07
He’s as good as we have in the right back position, it’s debatable whether he can tackle as well as Tony Hibbert but can cross a whole lot better. A few Man U fans I know always say he was signed as part of the Gary Neville deal at Man U and did play a lot less when they got better players. I rate him as a right back and like his attacking runs and crosses down that wing myself. I also agree with the shouts for Lescott for captain the guy is solid in centre ha;lf or left back roles and how often have you seen him taking the game on and charging from the back to try to win it?
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1 Posted 30/01/2008 at 21:37:47
I’ve watched him play, and paid close attention, just to see if he can be as good as what a lot of people say he is. I don’t understand why he is rated so highly....a good right back, who can play bit parts in other areas, but nothing more.
What really annoys me tho(and I know he is the captain), is when you see him shouting at the other senior players. Show them more respect pip....they’re better then you!