The Mail Bag
David Moyes... Too nice!
Comments (27)
David Moyes is doing his utmost to not critiscise referees and linesmen after games despite the fact that there is a blatant bias towards the Big 3 (and the delusional '1'). Now maybe it's a bit like traffic lights and you only really notice them when they are against you, but the absurd decisions that keep impacting Everton could potentially destroy our season and we seem to be more affected than any other team. No penalties all season after the blatant injustices against AJ last season, are just one prime example of this.
It seems to me that Ferguson, Wenger, the waiter and Grant never stop attacking decisions that go against them, they highlight every minor thing that doesn't go their way. Even yesterday the RS ref was the same one that had to fucking apologise to the RS for the penalty he gave to Chelsea and guess what?... he turned down a blatant Carragher handball and then gave them a penalty! These managers slyly apply constant pressure to officials, even against other teams... Wenger's comments about AJ going down too easily have undoubtedly cost us several penalties and it makes officials reluctant to go against them unless it is almost ridiculous to ignore.
Everybody's sick of this stacked deck, but it seems to me that it's not going to change so I wish Moyes would go on the attack and highlight this blatant favouritism and apply pressure to people who officiate our games. Let's face it, him staying quiet about the treatment of AJ and the clear bias to the media darlings is doing us no good whatsoever, and I'm sure a few fines would be well worth a slightly leveller playing field!
Mike Price, Posted 03/02/2008 at 04:51:23
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Ajay Gopal
2 Posted 03/02/2008 at 06:54:05
2 Posted 03/02/2008 at 06:54:05
I recall that Rafa got the referee to apologise for the supposedly wrong penalty decision (against Chelsea?).
Surely, yesterday’s decision was more weird and deserves a grovelling apology ?
Surely, yesterday’s decision was more weird and deserves a grovelling apology ?
David Barks
3 Posted 03/02/2008 at 08:21:00
3 Posted 03/02/2008 at 08:21:00
The problem is that Moyes did make a lot of noise about it last season resulting in the head of the officials coming to Goodison to review all the penalties we believed we had been denied. The guy publicly admitted after viewing the evidence that 8 of them were clear cut penalties and should have been given. But what good has it done, absolutely none. I don’t know what else Moyes can do. He didn’t stay quiet about Clattenburg, but the guy is still officiating games. The sad truth is that there is nothing we can do. We can yell and scream, but all that the FA will do is repeatedly fine Moyes and the club for pointing out what everyone else saw. There is a double standard and we are not the beneficiaries of it.
Michael Hunt
4 Posted 03/02/2008 at 08:30:38
4 Posted 03/02/2008 at 08:30:38
It IS beyond joke and is costing us big style. The media don’t help, they seem to make a smaller issue over it because it is only Everton , not a ’big four’ team. Well they should WAKE UP. We are TOP 4 on merit and there would be a comfortable gap of at least 5+ were it not for numerous blatently wrong game turning decisions by officials.
I just hope (and believe) that inspite of the odds being against us, the manager and squad has a massive fire in their collective belly to finish TOP 4 anyway. I.e Fuck them, we’ll take what’s rightfully ours even if the staus quo and officialdom persistantly try to shaft us. COYB!
I just hope (and believe) that inspite of the odds being against us, the manager and squad has a massive fire in their collective belly to finish TOP 4 anyway. I.e Fuck them, we’ll take what’s rightfully ours even if the staus quo and officialdom persistantly try to shaft us. COYB!
Phil Roberts
5 Posted 03/02/2008 at 08:44:43
5 Posted 03/02/2008 at 08:44:43
Nobody is going to like this comment, but I am not convinced and I think AJ may have been offside.
The law is two players. I think AJ was beyond Friedel when Vaughny kicked the ball to him so that means he had to be behind two defenders. There was 1 for sure, but the two next to AJ, was he ahead of them?
Thankfully MOTD only showed it once and I never videoed it. So I am more than happy to be proved wrong to make me more frustrated (if you see what I mean) but I do not think it is as clear cut as we all make out.
Of course what MoTD did focus on was the clear penalty AJ should have got - but that is another subject
The law is two players. I think AJ was beyond Friedel when Vaughny kicked the ball to him so that means he had to be behind two defenders. There was 1 for sure, but the two next to AJ, was he ahead of them?
Thankfully MOTD only showed it once and I never videoed it. So I am more than happy to be proved wrong to make me more frustrated (if you see what I mean) but I do not think it is as clear cut as we all make out.
Of course what MoTD did focus on was the clear penalty AJ should have got - but that is another subject
Steve Pendleton
6 Posted 03/02/2008 at 09:51:10
6 Posted 03/02/2008 at 09:51:10
I agree with you Mike. I would love to see him create a huge shit storm and call for heads to get our plight noticed by the FA.
I rate Moyes as a great manager but unfortunately he doesn’t have the same charisma or aura as a Fergie, Wenger, or Benitez has with the media. He seems to be a bit camera shy and reluctant to put our plight out there. Even his post match comments are too robotic.
Hope he proves me wrong over the next couple of days and highlights in an authoritative way the injustice of these dodgy decisions!!
I rate Moyes as a great manager but unfortunately he doesn’t have the same charisma or aura as a Fergie, Wenger, or Benitez has with the media. He seems to be a bit camera shy and reluctant to put our plight out there. Even his post match comments are too robotic.
Hope he proves me wrong over the next couple of days and highlights in an authoritative way the injustice of these dodgy decisions!!
Art Greeth
7 Posted 03/02/2008 at 09:49:31
7 Posted 03/02/2008 at 09:49:31
Sorry folks, whilst I agree that the disallowing of AJ’s goal was a poor decision and that the way he was clattered in the area - I forget by who - merited a penalty, I can’t make the leap some in this thread have to a deliberate policy by the authorities of ensuring four clubs secure the top four places come the end of the season.
It’s a conspiracy theory too far for me. For that to ensue requires a directive from on high to be circulated amongst match officials. Do you really believe such an edict exists...? If you do, then there would be a paper trail and SOME whistle blower would expose such a sham.
Coming back to the original post, I agree that ALL managers try to gain any advantage they can and that may include a steady drip-drip of (mis-)information to sow the seeds of doubt in match officials’ minds about what to watch out for on the pitch.
I don’t agree that DM is ’too nice’ in doing this. I think he plays the game too - albeit very subtly - but there is no mistaking the message behind his words. I have the impression he uses such incidents to motivate his team all the more, along the lines of: "We can’t count on anyone else to give us anything - let’s earn it for ourselves".
It’s a conspiracy theory too far for me. For that to ensue requires a directive from on high to be circulated amongst match officials. Do you really believe such an edict exists...? If you do, then there would be a paper trail and SOME whistle blower would expose such a sham.
Coming back to the original post, I agree that ALL managers try to gain any advantage they can and that may include a steady drip-drip of (mis-)information to sow the seeds of doubt in match officials’ minds about what to watch out for on the pitch.
I don’t agree that DM is ’too nice’ in doing this. I think he plays the game too - albeit very subtly - but there is no mistaking the message behind his words. I have the impression he uses such incidents to motivate his team all the more, along the lines of: "We can’t count on anyone else to give us anything - let’s earn it for ourselves".
Stefan Tosev
8 Posted 03/02/2008 at 09:56:46
8 Posted 03/02/2008 at 09:56:46
I also think that Moyes ahould be more ruthless. Just look at MU players after they received goal, Van der Saar sprinted 50 meters to the linesman to complain. The point is if you voice your frustration its more likely to be treated better in the future instead of quietly eating every piece of shit being served and asking for more.
Kev Prytherch
9 Posted 03/02/2008 at 10:36:12
9 Posted 03/02/2008 at 10:36:12
Phil. MOTD showed it and Johnson was behind Vaughan when he knocked it across to him so he couldn?t have been offside.
Neil McKinney
10 Posted 03/02/2008 at 10:34:20
10 Posted 03/02/2008 at 10:34:20
I think Moyes has taken the high ground here. It is massively frustrating for another major decision to go against us, but anyone who knows anything about footy will be able to see that it was a perfectly valid goal. (When you see more replays Phil you will change your stance, I am sure of it). Moyes doesn’t need to shout about it, it’s fucking blatant!
AJ can’t get a break at the moment. I thought he was superb yesterday, and maybe he ain’t a 20-30 goal a season man, but he deserved more yesterday.
He should have had a penalty and the finish for the "goal that never was" was ruthless. Kisanishvili was announced over the tannoy as their MOTM, but I thought he was lucky to stay on the pitch as he preceded to kick AJ at every opportunity, including the penalty incident!
As mentioned above, Moyes has shouted about this stuff before and, despite some acknowledgement that he is right, we have not benefited from it at all.
Use it like the Derby and go on a 13 game unbeaten run!
COYB!!
AJ can’t get a break at the moment. I thought he was superb yesterday, and maybe he ain’t a 20-30 goal a season man, but he deserved more yesterday.
He should have had a penalty and the finish for the "goal that never was" was ruthless. Kisanishvili was announced over the tannoy as their MOTM, but I thought he was lucky to stay on the pitch as he preceded to kick AJ at every opportunity, including the penalty incident!
As mentioned above, Moyes has shouted about this stuff before and, despite some acknowledgement that he is right, we have not benefited from it at all.
Use it like the Derby and go on a 13 game unbeaten run!
COYB!!
Phil Owen
11 Posted 03/02/2008 at 10:48:36
11 Posted 03/02/2008 at 10:48:36
Not one to fuel conspiracy theories in anyway, but I can?t feeling that there is the beginnings of a real push from the media and the FA to make sure the RS finish 4th.
Example; MOTD last night. Arsenal match first (1st in the league), Man U match 2nd (2nd in the league), Chelsea match 3rd (3rd in the league), oh and guess what RS match 4th (we want them 4th in the league). The BBC make me sick the way they tout the RS and the so called "top 4" all the time. They need the so called glamour sides in the CL.
The same goes for the FA. They need Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea and the RS in the CL next season. It all boils down to revenue. This is why It does not surprise me that the goal was disallowed yesterday. I will really start to wonder if that shite Clattenberg gets the RS?s game in hand to ref!
Arn?t conspiracy theories great ;o)
Example; MOTD last night. Arsenal match first (1st in the league), Man U match 2nd (2nd in the league), Chelsea match 3rd (3rd in the league), oh and guess what RS match 4th (we want them 4th in the league). The BBC make me sick the way they tout the RS and the so called "top 4" all the time. They need the so called glamour sides in the CL.
The same goes for the FA. They need Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea and the RS in the CL next season. It all boils down to revenue. This is why It does not surprise me that the goal was disallowed yesterday. I will really start to wonder if that shite Clattenberg gets the RS?s game in hand to ref!
Arn?t conspiracy theories great ;o)
Gavin Ramejkis
12 Posted 03/02/2008 at 11:02:15
12 Posted 03/02/2008 at 11:02:15
In the space of one Match of the Day last night clearly showed the "standard/bias/con" select as appropiate regards the FA and the rich 3. Watched the Chelski game and saw a blatant Belleti handball not given right in front of the referee then a second handball which was even more of a sickener as Chelski ran straight up the pitch fro it and scored. Compare that with Kivineshvilli’s haul down of AJ, straight penalty and AJ clearly onside for the goal. The referees and assistant referees are supposed to be professional now earning a substantial wage to boot. Decisions like this are disgraceful.
Let me give you another example, scenario first; a defender slides his legs against an opposition player removing a goal scoring opportunity and a penalty is given thus a foul has occured and that foul was not contested by the defender so penalty. The defender in question was not the last man so not a red card but can anyone tell me why not even a yellow card? Now watch West Ham v RS and explain how?
How long will DM leave it this season before he asks the referee’s boss to look at footage and we get a feeble "sorry, they were penalties" again?
Let me give you another example, scenario first; a defender slides his legs against an opposition player removing a goal scoring opportunity and a penalty is given thus a foul has occured and that foul was not contested by the defender so penalty. The defender in question was not the last man so not a red card but can anyone tell me why not even a yellow card? Now watch West Ham v RS and explain how?
How long will DM leave it this season before he asks the referee’s boss to look at footage and we get a feeble "sorry, they were penalties" again?
Phil Owen
13 Posted 03/02/2008 at 11:30:46
13 Posted 03/02/2008 at 11:30:46
Oh yeah I forgot to mention David Dunn?s blatent deliberate handball. Isn?t deliberate handball an immediate yellow card? Oh but that would have reduced Blackburn to 10 men, therefore giving the advantage to Everton. However we can?t have that. We need to make sure Everton don?t win, because we can safely assume the RS will beat Sunderland later in the day.
Some people say I am cynical! ;o)
Some people say I am cynical! ;o)
Gavin Ramejkis
14 Posted 03/02/2008 at 12:03:11
14 Posted 03/02/2008 at 12:03:11
Phil what a choker on the handball as Dunn then went on to clear a shot off the line
Paul Gladwell
15 Posted 03/02/2008 at 14:37:13
15 Posted 03/02/2008 at 14:37:13
Spoke to a freind of ours recently who works for the club and without going into too much detail that could land him into trouble, basically Moyes is hated by the referees for his treatment of them at half-time and full-time. He apparently talks to them like shit, so I would certainly not call him too nice.
Sean Condon
16 Posted 03/02/2008 at 15:41:57
16 Posted 03/02/2008 at 15:41:57
There?s actually another Toffee in the Lower Mainland?
Alan Makin
17 Posted 03/02/2008 at 15:39:04
17 Posted 03/02/2008 at 15:39:04
While I agree that we have had some really bad decisions against us this season, the conspiracy against us directly is probably a bit over the top. My theory is that there is an undeniable bias towards the big money sides. Why? Who knows... but hard facts do not lie. There are so many teams outside the "Money Quartet" who have bad decisions go against them especially when playing against "the four".
It is also a fact that the four Managers appear to be able to make personal attacks & comments about Refs, Players & other clubs with impunity whereas others are hit with disrepute charges (unless they are too much of a hot potato to deal with in the open). The whole system needs a totally independent investigation and an overhaul based on the findings...
It is also a fact that the four Managers appear to be able to make personal attacks & comments about Refs, Players & other clubs with impunity whereas others are hit with disrepute charges (unless they are too much of a hot potato to deal with in the open). The whole system needs a totally independent investigation and an overhaul based on the findings...
Mike Price
18 Posted 03/02/2008 at 15:46:50
18 Posted 03/02/2008 at 15:46:50
Hi Sean...Been in Vancouver for 12 years and now live in North Van...just as blue now as when I had a season ticket in the Main Stand!
Theres obviously no directive against us...but the media favorite managers are better than anyone else at applying this not so subtle pressure that makes officials do anything to avoid their wrath. They dont mind being the centre of a controvery that doesn’t affect the rich 4 because even when its disgustingly blatant, its highlighted in the media for the blink of an eye and then dropped. Imagine if that was a Ronaldo goal that was given offside losing Man U 2 points as Arsenal move clear and then imagine the slaughter in the press.
Theres obviously no directive against us...but the media favorite managers are better than anyone else at applying this not so subtle pressure that makes officials do anything to avoid their wrath. They dont mind being the centre of a controvery that doesn’t affect the rich 4 because even when its disgustingly blatant, its highlighted in the media for the blink of an eye and then dropped. Imagine if that was a Ronaldo goal that was given offside losing Man U 2 points as Arsenal move clear and then imagine the slaughter in the press.
Sean Condon
19 Posted 03/02/2008 at 15:45:55
19 Posted 03/02/2008 at 15:45:55
There is little excuse for Fifa or the PL to be dragging their feet on the issue of video replay. To avoid every decision being reviewed and dragging matches on forever all they have to do is adopt the NFL model (or some variation of). Simply: each manager could contest one call a half (or two per match, whatever). If video evidence proves the challenger wrong then he loses one of his subs. Once a team's compliment of subs is used they can no longer issue a challenge. How fucking hard is that?
Phil Grayston
20 Posted 03/02/2008 at 10:02:41
20 Posted 03/02/2008 at 10:02:41
The refereeing performance in yesterday's game was quite obviously atrocious - the only doubt is whether it should be put down to complete ineptitude or something more sinister. Conspiracy theorists are typically smirked at but the consistent pattern of decisions going against us lends real credibility to the possibility of a scheme to keep us (or anyone else who has the cheek to challenge Big 4 domination) out of the Champions League. Apart from the ridiculously disallowed AJ goal, what does the same player have to suffer to get a penalty? Personally, I haven't felt this proud to be an Evertonian for a very long time but the feel-good factor is tempered by the growing sensation that modern football is becoming a dung-heap of corruption. Let's just hope that we can lead the way and prove that good management and a committed group of players is enough to bring success to a loyal fan-base that didn't just come out of the Sky.
Dan Parker
21 Posted 03/02/2008 at 16:25:58
21 Posted 03/02/2008 at 16:25:58
I was watching the Sunderland game yesterday because it looked like they could get a result against the dark side. Two blatant penalties turned down before the referee awards a delayed decision penalty to the dark side following over-exaggerated claims by Gerrard.
Colin Malone
22 Posted 03/02/2008 at 16:54:25
22 Posted 03/02/2008 at 16:54:25
After yet another couple of bad MAJOR decisions that went against us. Thinking back to the Clattenburg performance, also, when Keith Hacket admitted that our club have had bad refs' decisions against us.
Knowing that you ain't going to get anything from a ref at the likes of Old Trafford. I think I'm right in saying, if the technology as in Rugby football was applied, we'd be sitting third in the premiership.
Technology in football is a positive step, it gives a more level playing field to all clubs, not the chosen few. So when will it change? I'll digress for a moment, I'm on the safety committee in my work place and without going into details, something has got to happen before the company will do something to remedy the problem, just like the parents petitioning for a zebra crossing by their local school. But the power that be only act when some person or child is knocked down. Yesterday, I and many thousands of Evertonians felt like running on that pitch and throttling the ref. What would have happened if someone did? I hope it does not happen, but when will these powers that be, Fifa, FA, take notice? Enough's enough.
John Martin
23 Posted 03/02/2008 at 18:07:57
23 Posted 03/02/2008 at 18:07:57
I don't think it's just against Everton. Like most people I think referees favour the top 3 plus Liverpool.
The incident when the referee was forced to appologise the Liverpool happened on the same day Fulham had a last minute goal clearly over the line ruled out they are still awaiting there apology!!
Throughout my life I have seen terrible decisions go against and it will continue sadly until we are the top team around.
The incident when the referee was forced to appologise the Liverpool happened on the same day Fulham had a last minute goal clearly over the line ruled out they are still awaiting there apology!!
Throughout my life I have seen terrible decisions go against and it will continue sadly until we are the top team around.
Jay Campbell
24 Posted 03/02/2008 at 20:08:24
24 Posted 03/02/2008 at 20:08:24
Something should be done about these fuckers. It’s so obvious that they don’t want Everton in the top 4 gatecrashing the party.
Once again a fucking cheating , incompetant closet red nose twat is officiating one of our games again.
Dunn should have been sent off, Johnson shudda had a penno and the goal should have stood end ov story.
All ref’s nowadays are to busy arsekissing players and managers from Man U, Arsenal. Chelsea and the RS.
Once again a fucking cheating , incompetant closet red nose twat is officiating one of our games again.
Dunn should have been sent off, Johnson shudda had a penno and the goal should have stood end ov story.
All ref’s nowadays are to busy arsekissing players and managers from Man U, Arsenal. Chelsea and the RS.
Roy Coyne
25 Posted 03/02/2008 at 22:12:28
25 Posted 03/02/2008 at 22:12:28
Its not just us that suffers although at times it seems like that fact is the refs ALL favour the so called bigger clubs,what can be done about it I honestly dont know Fergie, Wenger and the onion seller are it appears listened too while we are treated as upstarts sacking a ref who makes 10 clearly bad decisions in a season would seem to be reasonable start as if I made that many I would be fired
John Andrews
26 Posted 03/02/2008 at 23:51:27
26 Posted 03/02/2008 at 23:51:27
It is as plain as the nose on your face that the four clubs that usually occupy the top four places in the Premier league get preferential treatment from the referees.
When was the last time Arsenal conceded a penalty at either Highbury or the Emirates. Or to put it slightly better how many penalties have Arsenal conceded at home in the last ten years ? Don’t think it is too many.
I suspect that a player would have to shoot an opposing player at OT, Emirates, Chelski or Analfield to get a yellow card !
However we should not whinge about this apparent injustice just get out there and put a few noses out of joint !
When was the last time Arsenal conceded a penalty at either Highbury or the Emirates. Or to put it slightly better how many penalties have Arsenal conceded at home in the last ten years ? Don’t think it is too many.
I suspect that a player would have to shoot an opposing player at OT, Emirates, Chelski or Analfield to get a yellow card !
However we should not whinge about this apparent injustice just get out there and put a few noses out of joint !
Roger Jones
27 Posted 04/02/2008 at 00:50:31
27 Posted 04/02/2008 at 00:50:31
One way to make the bent officials sit up and take notice, might be to start suing them - if someone makes a clearly blatantly wrong decision that results in a demonstrable financial loss, then the injured party surely has the right to financial redress equal to that financial loss (plus any costs incurred in persuing the claim).
So if, as the result of a particular decision, EFC missed out on 4th place and CL qualification and this was likely to cost EFC £30 million, then EFC would have good grounds for suing the responsible official for that amount.
Of course, if this happened, then presumably as Refs are employees of the FA, the FA would have to indemnify them against personal losses, so effectively EFC would be suing the FA (because they’d be the ones who’d have to cough up).
I think it would only take the threat that this might actually happen, for the FA to do a complete and immediate turnabout on the technology issue and issue a hefty crackdown on offending officials.
So if, as the result of a particular decision, EFC missed out on 4th place and CL qualification and this was likely to cost EFC £30 million, then EFC would have good grounds for suing the responsible official for that amount.
Of course, if this happened, then presumably as Refs are employees of the FA, the FA would have to indemnify them against personal losses, so effectively EFC would be suing the FA (because they’d be the ones who’d have to cough up).
I think it would only take the threat that this might actually happen, for the FA to do a complete and immediate turnabout on the technology issue and issue a hefty crackdown on offending officials.
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1 Posted 03/02/2008 at 06:09:25
According to the Referee and his assistant it was not.
What did they see that was missed by thousands in the stadium plus TV millions around the globe who had the benefit of multiple replays and Slo-Mos from various angles.
Can clubs demand and get from an explanation or are the match officials members of a secret society.