I know I'm probably going to cause a stir here, but I think Cahill should be dropped for the next match. For me he hasn't offered anything since Yakubu went away.
My idea would be to deploy Fernandes in the free role, behind Vaughan and Johnson. With Fernandes in recent games, he's been covering Carsley way too much and by time he gets to attack the lad is knackered...any thoughts?
Andrew Duncan, Posted 05/02/2008 at 11:29:40
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1 Posted 05/02/2008 at 16:23:11
I do not think, however, that we should use Fernandes that high up the pitch. His strength is sitting deep and getting attacks started. Why not go 4-4-2 with AJ & the Yak up front, or push Osman further up the pitch in support of a lone front man?
2 Posted 05/02/2008 at 16:26:14
3 Posted 05/02/2008 at 16:29:10
4 Posted 05/02/2008 at 16:34:59
If anyone’s going to play the Cahill role behind the striker then its Osman or Pienaar. Naturally both of there favored positions would be behind the front one or two. They’d both offer something different to Cahill in that role. They wouldn’t put themselves about as much and they wouldn’t play as a target man but they would offer more quality on the ball and excellent awareness.
I disagree with anyone who says Cahill is useless in a four man midfield. I’ve seen both Carsley and Neville do jobs in a four man midfield and Cahill is alot better footballer than both. He’s not a Fernandes or an Arteta but he is a capable Footballer. He’s not going to offer defense splitting balls but he’s physical, good in the air, a decent tackler, has excellent stamina and can chip in with the odd goal hear and there like he showed in the 05/06 season. People forget that for the Majority of that season we played 4-4-2 and Cahill scored 8 goals which is a decent number. I’d think it would be a different story if Cahill played alongside Fernandes. Someone who take take most of the ball duties and leave Cahill to play his box to box role. Its always worth a try.
His recent slump in form has got alot to do with Johnson. They just don’t play well together. When Johnson plays as the loan striker he likes to run behind alot which doesn’t give Cahill a chance to make his runs as he’s always behind him. With Yakubu its a different matter. Yak holds it up which gives Cahill time to make his runs from deep. When he plays with Johnson he more of less plays as an out and out striker which doesn’t suit him but when he plays with with Yakubu he does in fact play as an attacking midfielder.
Cahill has proven his worth to the team and when everyone is back I expect him to get back to his best. The 4-5-1 formation is also the best way to go until we find a defensive midfielder with legs and a bit of presence.
I doubt he’ll play on Saturday anyway. I expect it to be Fernandes and Carsley in midfield with Yakubu and Johnson leading the line.
5 Posted 05/02/2008 at 17:03:11
Technically Cahill isn’t the strongest, thats no secret so when he’s competing for a midfield place against the likes of Arteta, Pienaar, Osma and Fernandes he’s gunna struggle. He ’s a great addition to the team don’t get me wrong, but I think a few weeks on the side will do him the world of good.
6 Posted 05/02/2008 at 17:37:40
7 Posted 05/02/2008 at 17:44:48
8 Posted 05/02/2008 at 17:57:31
9 Posted 05/02/2008 at 18:24:30
4-5-1 is our best formation, it suits our midfield, with Carsley able to sit deeper, the full backs able to get further forward, Cahill able to bomb on, and for Arteta, Osman and Fernandes to play with far less regementation. When we’ve supposedly played this defensive formation, we have been far more attacking than in a 4-4-2.
If Johnson has to play, then he should play with either Anichebe or Vaughan as he needs support to help him hold the ball up. Johnson simply cannot do this and requires assistance, which is why we struggle for goals with him leading the line in a 4-5-1.
10 Posted 05/02/2008 at 18:32:50
Fernandes is not a holding a midfielder, but he could be in time. He goes missing at times and does not yet have the fitness levels required. He also lacks Carsley’s discipline and wants to go forward too much to play there. Therefore, Fernandes is better, and has the skills to play as a proper old fashioned centre midfielder. He can get back and get forward and can get on the ball and dictate play. He’s lacking a little fitness and experience / familiarity with the premier league. The signs are good with him and I think he can be world class if he continues to develope.
11 Posted 05/02/2008 at 18:38:33
12 Posted 05/02/2008 at 18:34:12
13 Posted 05/02/2008 at 18:54:03
He was compared to Makelele as a youth but anyone watching the Chelsea v Everton semi final would have seen how different they where. I remember Gravesen was called a defensive midfielder when he came to England and we can see perfectly that he is not at all and never was.
He’s a bit of both if you ask me. More attacking than defensive but very capable of tackling and breaking up play. Why waste him in a disciplined role? One of our few players capable of spotting a through ball and capable of brilliance as he showed against Spurs in the final third.
14 Posted 05/02/2008 at 19:09:37
15 Posted 05/02/2008 at 19:48:01
Tony McCann, I understand the difference which is why I said Fernandes will never be a defensive midfielder in "England". As you said the European version of a defensive midfielder is different from ours. Carsley is a typical British defensive midfielder whereas someone like Gilberto at Arsenal or Makelele at Chelsea would be your typical European/overseas defensive midfielder.
This is why I mentioned Gravesen. He was known as a defensive/holding midfielder in Germany and Denmark because he played a deeper role and used his passing range to dictate attacks. But in England we can just see that he would never be able to play that role.
Fernandes for me is an out and out central midfielder who likes to get on the ball. A deep lying play maker maybe but judging by his first spell hear he didn’t play as deep as he is playing now. There is a difference between someone like Alonso and Fernandes. Alonso has discipline and plays in more or less a box whereas Fernandes although not out and out attacking does get forward and isn’t used in a disciplined role.
16 Posted 05/02/2008 at 20:25:46
17 Posted 05/02/2008 at 20:47:23
18 Posted 05/02/2008 at 21:26:16
19 Posted 05/02/2008 at 22:05:02
I agree with Connor about Manny, he shouldn’t play ’in the hole’ he’s a central midfielder and a cracking one at that. He’s not ready for a holding role either and wont be for a good few years although, I personally feel he could mature and grow into that role one day.
20 Posted 05/02/2008 at 22:27:18
Which leaves us with 2 options.
1. Yak up front on his own, with cahill playing the supporting role
2. We play 4-4-2 with Yak and AJ and Cahill is on the bench.
Personally i think we cannot we play 4-4-2 with cahill but i’m sure many will disagree.
We need Cars in the midfield, so assuming its Arteta and Piennar out wide that leaves Manny or Tim. Hmmmm, interesting
21 Posted 05/02/2008 at 23:08:19
Drop the championship standard player. One guess who that will be.
If Everton wants to kiss goodbye to any current or future Australians just keep on their backs about them representing their country.
22 Posted 05/02/2008 at 23:26:44
I dont think anybody here is having a go at Tim for being Australian. Who cares where a guy is from as long he’s an Evertonian thats fine by me. Stop being so sensitive just coz your from Oz
23 Posted 05/02/2008 at 23:53:41
I think it would be a great idea to play them both in the middle in Europe. We’d be able to control games, keep the ball and not worry so much on the defensive aspects of the game. The aim of the game in European football is to keep the ball so playing two natural out and out ball players in the middle of the park would help us do this. Maybe not away from home but at Goodsion I’d definatly give it a go but I doubt Moyes will as he likes Arteta on the wing.
In premiership games though its different. Carsley is needed to give us a bit of steel aswell as some physicality in the middle of the park.
24 Posted 06/02/2008 at 00:34:35
25 Posted 06/02/2008 at 03:44:58
I would add that one other reason why Manny can play further back in the middle (or Moyes place him there) is his superb long range passing to compensate. Hit them with AJ on the break. And we have another body at the back for insurance.
For Premiership games played at 140mph, no-frills Cars in the middle to mop up definately.
26 Posted 06/02/2008 at 03:57:52
27 Posted 06/02/2008 at 06:10:55
28 Posted 06/02/2008 at 07:48:39
In my view, we should forget the debate about which is Cahill?s preferred or best position; equally, we should forget about debating his form at the moment. We should focus on his commitment to Everton. Most young Australian players I know and deal with on a daily basis would give their eye teeth to represent a Club like Everton. Not so Mr Cahill.
What concerns me about Cahill, and has for a long while, is his propensity for putting Everton a distant second to his Australian duties, even when the Australian games are only friendlies. And, whilst the game against Qatar is a full international, there are enough players of substance locally who could fill his role for this match without threatening his long term security in the team. He knows this and so do the Football Federation of Australia.
This season, he has spent time on the injury list and has been suspended and, in my view, should be putting his Everton responsibilities at the forefront at the moment as he owes the Club and Everton supporters some return for their loyalty, support and patience. Flying 12,000 miles, playing on the Wednesday night and then flying back to the UK on Thursday evening (AST) isn?t going to help his performances in either the Australian or Reading matches.
29 Posted 06/02/2008 at 08:15:03
30 Posted 06/02/2008 at 09:11:01
By the way, Cahill on the scoresheet in the first half - Australia leading 3-0... Perhaps this is a chance for him to get some goal scoring confidence back.
31 Posted 06/02/2008 at 10:28:32
32 Posted 06/02/2008 at 10:38:02
33 Posted 06/02/2008 at 10:54:52
34 Posted 06/02/2008 at 11:02:43
35 Posted 06/02/2008 at 11:10:08
36 Posted 06/02/2008 at 11:28:40
37 Posted 06/02/2008 at 11:43:57
38 Posted 06/02/2008 at 11:56:31
Cahill is a champ.
We are 4th (and would be much better off if not for a bad decision)
Times are good.......
Get over it!
39 Posted 06/02/2008 at 12:03:22
I dont think Manny played on the wing against chelsea, he was probably our most central player so I have to disagree, also the watford game away last year, being honest I cant remember, but if you look at the team from that day then I’m sure he wasnt on the wing/side in that game either!!
You can dress it up all you want but Manny is a holding midfielder in a yaya toure, Makalele, Diarra type of way. he will get involved with play & orchestrate play from a deeper position that the rest of midfield. I dont think you can look at his other clubs & where they played him for a number of reasons....
Benfica - played across the midfield (mostly central) due to youth & just breaking through
Pompey - never got fair crack & stated he was out of posistion more than not
Valencia - same as above really, hence why he is back here now.
I know (as always) its just opinions & peoples interpretations of a particular position. So if we re-christen it a depper role (rather than holding/defensive) than that suits him better. He is someone who will start attacks, keep possesion, dictate play etc etc. He could be our most important player if we manage to keep him.
So lets watch & enjoy him.
40 Posted 06/02/2008 at 12:14:28
Maybe exploding back into the team the way he did is taking a toll now. I dont know, I dont see him train everyday etc but I honestly believe that against reading that Vaughn (not victor) should start alongside AJ, until Yak is back & ready to go!!!
41 Posted 06/02/2008 at 12:11:48
42 Posted 06/02/2008 at 12:16:28
43 Posted 06/02/2008 at 12:17:18
But I agree totally with you that he’s a central midfielder and should be kept there. The more he plays I think the more we’ll see him pulling the strings. I’d also like to see him take more free kicks after the one against Blackburn. Arteta’s set pieces have been poor all season.
Regarding Cahill, a break would do him good this weekend. Leave him on the bench just in case and start with AJ and Yak up top. He’s been blowing bubbles lately at the end of games and I think tiredness is the only reason we’ve not see the best of him, nothing more sinister.
44 Posted 06/02/2008 at 12:33:21
Just in response to Ian, I would also pick my 11 including Tim most of the time & your right a little break this week might see him come back refreshed, but on his previous form. He’s not getting into positions he normally does, he is not as sharp as usual & if he is playing 2nd striker then he needs to be more of a threat.
Its also only fair to Vaughan, cos you cant say to the lads on bench "It doesnt matter what you do cos th lads in front of you will always play, even off form" they have to have an incentive. Just hope whoever DM picks that we do reading by more than 2 & get the confidence going again.
45 Posted 06/02/2008 at 12:26:56
Diarra naturally plays deep and hardly moves away from the back four. Fernandes drops deep to start attacks because he is our only player capable of doing this. If Carsley could take pressure of the back four and pick a pass then Fernandes I suspect would play higher up the pitch. The problem is Carsley isn’t capable of this and doesn’t make himself available so Fernandes has to do it.
Lots of players drop deep and start attacks but it doesn’t necessarily make them defensive players. Scholes does it for United, Fabregas does it for Arsenal and Gerrard does it for Liverpool and none of those players are classed as defensive midfielders. They just have the bollocks and the talent to look for the ball when under pressure which all good midfielders should do.
Fernandes for me is a central midfielder who has more attacking attributes than defensive. He may have been billed as a defensive midfielder in Portugal in his youth but he has far to much ability and lacks the discipline to ever play like Makelele. Makelele’s game is more or less played in a box in front of the back four, he wins the ball and passes it five yards to the more creative player. Ive yet to see Fernandes do this in his Everton career. Even in the Chelsea match which is the deepest I’ve ever seen him play he still got forward and burst past the half way line on a number of occasions.
I think we’ll all agree that his best game for the club so far is the Arsenal game last season. Judging by these clips he isn’t a defensive midfielder and plays his best stuff when he is playing in front of Carsley as he does for the majority of the game. He shows both defensive and attacking qualities but his positional play is not defensive.
Who knows though. Maybe I’m wrong or maybe I’m right. Just an opinion.
46 Posted 06/02/2008 at 14:19:22
Its also only fair to Vaughan, cos you cant say to the lads on bench "It doesnt matter what you do cos the lads in front of you will always play, even off form" they have to have an incentive. Just hope whoever DM picks that we do reading by more than 2 & get the confidence going again.
John, I agree with all of what you are saying, but the fact remains for me that I would at this current time pick Cahill (even on present form) above vaughan. Don’t get me wrong, I really like Vaughan, but just feel Cahill cannot be left out. I feel we would be weakend by leaving him out, whoever we put in instead. Just my opinion! I could be wrong, maybe putting vaughan in and leaving Cahill out would work, but I have my doubts if that would be a plus, even for one week!
47 Posted 06/02/2008 at 14:20:04
I do agree he is a central midfielder, but also Diarra is......they just occupy different areas to the lkes of Gerrard, Cahill and Scholes (when Keane was alongside him).
I dont think this one is gonna get settled cos we have two different(similar) but different opinions. When I watch Manny he gets involved in play but his position I still say he is a deep holding midfielder rather than a box to box midfielder as you described