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Can We, Will We, Have We?

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Can we, will we and have we all gotten over the snub from Manny Fernandes in the summer?

We all know what happened and although the story has been changed slightly since his return to try and make him look blameless, I fail to see how he can't be partly responsible for snubbing Everton. Ok the deal was complicated, Everton dragged their heals, Manny was poorly advised, but I remember BK stating that he had dinner with Manny the night before his move to Valencia. At that meal he promised that he was to become an Everton player and the deal was as good as done. Next day he was in Spain and a Valencia player. Yes there are different stories about what actually went on, but in truth Manny has to be held responsible for the snub!

My point is that I believe because of all that nonsense, it's going to be extremely difficult for Fernandes to re-settle on Merseyside. I, like most Evertonians would love to see Manny settle well, turn out to be superb for us and then sign a deal in the summer, but I am fearful that this will not be the case. I can't help, but hold a grudge and I feel I am not alone. His early performances have been poor and the crowd have been very quick to get on his back about it. I just think what happened with Fernandes and Valencia is niggling away in alot of Evertonians minds and as much as we try to bury our disapointment some of us will need alot from Manny on the field before we can embrace him into the fold again. Because of this I feel it will be very difficult for him and I've a feeling he just won't settle here again. Some say you should never go back, there are cases to prove this as true (Kendall, Gravesen, Jeffers) and the odd case against this (Stubbs did ok when he came back) and i think with Manny he may end up being a failiure this time around.

In an ideal world we would all forgive Manny, I am trying to do just that. Us fans can be fickle, a few good performances and I'm sure bygones will be bygones, but on the other hand, I find myself being very hard on Manny simply because of what happened in the summer. I can say "Its nothing to do with what happened, it's just his performances have been poor so far", but in the back of my mind, I know theres more to it than that and the more truthful Evertonian will probably admit the same! I hope Manny proves me wrong and becomes a success, I really do, but I'll be surprised if it happens and I promise, I'll be the first to eat my words on here if it turns out ok!
Ian  Ankers, Chester     Posted 06/02/2008 at 12:28:16

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Lyndon Lloyd
If he plays well between now and May he'll have no problems and I'm going to disagree with you about his form because he has been getting better with each game back — and he's only played three times, for God's sake!

Yakubu took time to settle but people were all over him for being lazy, now we have to criticise Fernandes even though he's barely had time to get his bearings again. Face it, had his free kick gone in against Blackburn, there would have been Manny mania. As it is, he put in a good performance, one of the better on the day, and it's my bet that he demonstrates over the next few months how valuable he can be, especially to taking some heat off Arteta. Just give him time.

Dan Mckie
1   Posted 06/02/2008 at 16:32:34

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None of us know what happened in the summer!
Erik Dols
2   Posted 06/02/2008 at 16:38:56

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I’m with Lyndon and Dan.
Robbie Skinley
3   Posted 06/02/2008 at 16:39:43

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Can cetainly see Ian’s point. I hope it works out with Manny as he’s such a talented player but don’t think he’ll get too much lee-way if he doesn’t hit top form.
Trying to think the best about him and believe we don’t know everything that happened but at end of day I do think he messed us about.
If he manages to score in the derby I think I’ll be able to fully forgive him though!
John Turner
4   Posted 06/02/2008 at 16:32:58

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Snub? It makes me laugh when the media plaster this word all over the newspapers, it?s just emotive language to provoke a reaction and it works. During the transfer windows the media seem to pick a player?s name out of a hat, pull 3 or 4 clubs out of the hat and then when the player goes to one of them all of the other clubs have been ?snubbed?.

The word snub makes it sound as though the player has stuck two fingers up at the club when quite often there were no other clubs even interested. Of course, in this case there was, and yes, we all believed he was already an Everton player (so much so that some of the kids were already after his name on the back of their replica shirts) but the truth is we will never fully know what went on with the Valencia/Benifca/third party business? eg. whether it happened because Benfica stood to benefit more financially, whether the third party ownership problems were too great for us as a club, or whether Fernandes personally said ?Sod them if they wanted me that much they?d have me well signed up by now, I?m off for some Champions League football?. I don?t believe it was as personal a choice as that, there are too many parties concerned (forgive the pun) for it to be that simple.

We don?t know the truth about the ?snub?, and until we do we can?t call it a ?snub?. Fernandes is only 21 years old, potentially an amazing player and he fits in with Moyes? signing policy of only buying if it improves on what we?ve already got. He?s an excellent player and I?m glad to see him back in an Everton shirt.
Mick Dempsey
5   Posted 06/02/2008 at 18:15:54

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Cynical comes to mind. Sometimes I just dont understand some football fans, they just dont seem to understand sport and athlethes in general. Havent these people heard terms like match fit and ring rusty, dont they understand it takes time for most sportsman to get their bodies match fit or ring fit, and this can only be achieved with games, Fernandes looked off the pace, but each game he is getting better. On the snub, we dont know the facts and we all know Kenwright loves to shout his mouth off about having meals with celebs. Give the lad time and the boo boys are the least Knowledgeable people at any ground, never played the game at any level and most dont even know the basics of the game enough said.
6   Posted 06/02/2008 at 18:43:24

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I totally agree with Lyndon. Manny is a young man who was caught in the middle of a nasty contractual situation where agents (or even worse, if there can be such a thing, "part owners") were pulling strings and manipulating every step of negotiations to their own advantage. OK: that’s life! I was very disappointed to hear at the last home game (from where I sit in the Main Stand) quite a few fellow supporters having a real go at Fernandes, not on the basis of his few mistakes (which I think he will grow out of once he settles back in) but with some residual negativity about his previous "non signature". I sincerely believe he has the potential (that word again) to be a fantastic player for us. He is now freed from "third party" ownership complications, and, (maybe I’m being gullible) he seems to have been genuinely touched by the "Everton Experience". Only time will tell, but I would urge "give the lad a break", and judge him on his performances alone.
Keith Glazzard
7   Posted 06/02/2008 at 18:44:35

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I agree with all of these comments (unless I’ve missed something) and can only add that at the end of last season his registration was a mess. Everton wouldn’t have signed him without this being sorted out and the lad - I believe - did what he was told. Wouldn’t he have to be a really hard-faced bastard to come back to us if it had been his decision to "snub" us? Who knows?

He’s already on course to be a crowd favourite and hopefully afully signed up Everton player at the end of the season.
Baloo Johnson
8   Posted 06/02/2008 at 18:57:58

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I totally agree with Andy, Mick, John & Robbie. Not so much with Eric. And not at all with Ian
Connor Rohrer
9   Posted 06/02/2008 at 18:53:54

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No one actually knows what happened. I certainly wont comment because if I did I’d be talking bollocks and lying to my fellow Evertonians. Maybe he did fuck us off and that could be the case but it would be unfair to say anything unless we had evidence.

Manny himself claims it was to do with third party ownership whilst Alan Irvine was also of that opinion. Moyes has never actually commented on it but why would he take him back if that had been the case? I really don’t know who to believe but to be honest I don’t care anymore. I’ll support him until his time at Everton finishes as I do every player who pulls on the Blue shirt. Alan Stubbs was welcomed back despite him leaving in a very important season and despite him bad mouthing the club whereas Tommy Gravesen’s name is still sung on the Gwlads street end despite him leaving for Real Madrid. I think Fernandes deserves the exact same welcome that both Stubbs and Gravesen have had.

I don’t agree hes been poor. If that was the case then alot of our players have been worse. I’d say he’s been better than both Osman and Cahill over the games he has played. He’s not even fully fit yet, people could argue he’s still adjusting to the league aswell as the team. Give him time and I’m sure he will get better and better.
Dave Hersham
10   Posted 06/02/2008 at 19:17:50

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Spot on Connor, some people are to quick to pass judgment without knowing all the facts. If he pulls the jersey on a gives a 100 % That will do for me and I am made up he returned to Everton.
paul whitehouse
11   Posted 06/02/2008 at 20:52:21

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3 games, give the guy a break. im more concerned that even if he becomes a star player theres no way we can afford to buy him. Lets set ourselves for another summer of heartbreak!
Lue Glover
12   Posted 06/02/2008 at 20:56:09

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When a player puts on the Royal Blue jersey he deserves every ounce of support from us. Regardless of what has happened in the past.
I can see where you’re coming from Ian but let the lad get on with what he does, playing football for the Blues.
Manny hasnt been poor and is improving with every game. Give him a chance.
lewis abbott
13   Posted 06/02/2008 at 21:21:07

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Manny fernandes is the freshest midfielder i have ever seen play for everton(I am 18 by the way). To me we have never had a player of his calibre. You may say arteta but come?on moyes has got him working his arse of which hampers his play. This guy moves at his own pace and dictates the centre of the park. He is the first contential player with some class to be here and he is going to be massive for us.

This guy could be the best player in the team and would definetly help achieve the ?next step?, and you would doubt him?
steve ferns
14   Posted 06/02/2008 at 21:22:18

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Ian, you haven’t been the games if you think Fernandes has been poor. Maybe a few of his passes have been misplaced and maybe he hasn’t got back as quick as we would like on a couple of occaisions. But surely you can atribute this to a lack of understanding and perhaps a lack of fitness. As he beds back into the team and (re-)developes his understandings with Arteta, Osman, Carsley, and Cahill and builds up an understanding with Pienaar and Yakubu then we will see him get back to his best and beyond. Noone was critical of Pienaar when it took him a good 8 games or so to bed in. And yes that is what Connor was referring to as match fitness or ring-rustiness.

As for the transfer, it appears that if Valancia had not come along the deal would have collapsed anyone due to Premier League Beaurocracy and Benfica’s unwillingness to do a further laon deal. If this is the case how can you blame the player who merely was looking to secure a move and needed to do so before the transfer window (remember he had burnt his bridges with Benfica). Fernandes was in position to be able to turn Valencia down.

If this is not true and he did "snub" us. Then what does that say about Moyes and potential disruption to dressing room harmony that he has brought a player to the club who is clearly not loyal to the cause. Therefore, I summarise that this has not happened and it is more likely to have happened as I outlined above.

As for the crowd getting on his back, what rubbish, there has been nothing but admiration for his touch and vision. Though there have been one or two groans of frustration at a misplaced pass or two.

Get your facts stright Ian.
Ian Machenry
15   Posted 06/02/2008 at 21:14:20

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Nowbody knows what went on in the summer but I presume that if it lay at the feet of Fernandes he wouldn’t have found himself back at the club I’m convinced of that.

I have been present at all 3 games in which he has played and have felt annoyed at some of the stick he has received. He has been wasteful in possesion a few times but his brain is on a different level than alot of the other players we’ve had around him, anyone can hoof it and just launch it forward, he looks to play football at every opportunity.

He’s still a kid at 21 and in my opinion has the potential to be one of the best players we’ve seen at Goodison for many a year, I can’t wait to see him with Pienaar Yakubu, Arteta and Osman to an extent, players who can all play, he hasn’t played alot of football in the last few months but he is what I call a footballer and certainly the type of player I want to be watching on a Saturday afternoon.

Arteta wasn’t the hardest working player when he arrived but it’s something that both the club and Moyes has been able to install in him, hopefully the same can be said about Fernandes.
16   Posted 06/02/2008 at 22:25:17

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Totally agree with most on here.He needs to get used to playing in the premiership,with better footballers now back and better fitness.
As regards the "he’ll be signing in the morning" statement didnt we also hear the cheque will be in the bank tomorrow a few years ago so I prefer to believe he never wanted to go in the first place.
But remember we let him go back and made no effort to sign him until the last minute.Then complications arose with the registration and we arsed around for about 3 weeks.His agent saw the colour of green guaranteed and it wouldnt be hard to persuade a Portugese national to go to Valencia.Ask yourselves honestly what would you have done?
Its a credit to him that he has had to eat humble pie and still come back.
Cant wait to see him link up with Pienaar,Arteta ,Osman and Yak.
Tommy Banks
17   Posted 06/02/2008 at 22:33:29

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In my opinion Fernandes is a decent young player with plenty of potential and thats it potential at the moment, lets not get carried away. What Everton do need is a top class proven central midfield player, so Moyes can have confidence in playing 2 strikers and 4 midfield players, what we have now is either to light weight or not good enough and thats why Moyes prefers having an extra midfield player on the pitch to stop the oppositon from playing. But without the money to buy a 15 million quid palyer we will always struggle against the likes of Man U and Chelsea
Rich Jones
18   Posted 06/02/2008 at 23:18:43

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I think Manny had a meal with Kenwright and thought JESUS this guys a fuckin idiot im off!!!!
Brian Garside
19   Posted 07/02/2008 at 01:15:40

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Forgive,forget and SHUT UP!!!

Stop trying to stir things up.
Let the lad get on with his game without this pathetic bitching and he will become the player we all want him to be.

Have you never had a second chance at anything?
Or are you an envious rs annoyed that we got this one without you butting your noses in?
Nick Xenos
20   Posted 07/02/2008 at 03:33:12

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I can’t believe people are whinging already about Fernandes. Let’s not forget who was filling in the central midfield position before he arrived. In terms of quality and talent, Fernandes is light years ahead of anyone else in the team who can play that position properly, in terms of vision, distribution, and the odd piece of skill to free up some space. Ofcoarse he’s not firing on all cylinders yet, he only played a handful of games at Valencia FFS! This guy will shine if given a little time.
Sean Gilbertson
21   Posted 07/02/2008 at 09:56:54

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The simple truth of the Fernandes ’snub’ is that while we were dragging our heels, Valencia came in with a higher offer which Benfica accepted.
Personally I want him to stay and I’m surprised to read that Ian Ankers thinks the crowd get on his back, I have never witnessed this myself. I also think that Manny really helps Mikky, who almost always looks for Manny first when he has the ball.
Ian Ankers
22   Posted 08/02/2008 at 12:42:48

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Firstly I must apologise, you’ve kind of all taken what I written in the wrong way, which is entirely my fault, its badly written!

I am not focusing on the fact that Manny hasn’t started well for us this time around, of course he’s only been here a few weeks and it would be silly to base his possible long term success on the strength of a handful of games.
All I am basically saying is that I know for a fact that alot of fans do hold a grudge. maybe not on here, but I sit in the paddock stand and people have been quick to get on his back and weather you want to say "You musn’t be at the same match" or "go and support the kopites" or "your not an Evertonian" whatever silly stuff you want to throw, its a fact, my ears are not decieving me! At the Spurs game it was actually annoying me that almost everytime Manny did anything, someone had something bad to say about it! Ok, so maybe I do sit in the only part of the ground where the few Manny doubters sit, but at a guess I’d say surely not?

So please, I AM NOT BASING ANYTHING ON HOW MANNY HAS STARTED THIS TIME AROUND! All I’m saying is there are people with grudges and alot of water has flowed under this bridge and Manny’s CV isn’t quite as clear as it was first time around. AND on that basis I am saying he may struggle to settle!

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