The Mail Bag
Second Time This Season
Comments (26)
Couldn't help but notice that for the second time this season a referee has been dropped from officiating the next Premiership game due to bad decisions made in an Everton fixture.
The first time was Mark Clattenberg and his bias towards the Red Shite. This second time its Alan Wiley and the lines man for firstly not sending off David Dunn for a second bookable offence and then the offside goal that was not offside!
After the many penalty decisions we didn't get last season do people not think on these 2 occasions this season we have been hard done by and by them dropping the referees from the next fixtures is proof we are being hard done by with very bad decisions. We could well be challenging for 3rd place. I
I know that there is a bias towards the Sky 4 but what do officials have against Everton? Can't remember and incident of a ref being dropped from the next fixture for bad decisions in games involving the Sky 4 (except the Merseyside derby). What have Everton done wrong to deserve this?
Would like to hear people's thoughts on this.
Peter Keating, Posted 06/02/2008 at 23:43:57
Comments
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Lyndon Lloyd
I don't actually think Clattenburg was punished in any way. If I recall correctly, he had a midweek game 10 days after his derby debacle and wouldn't have reffed the following weekend anyway.
Adam Harris
1 Posted 07/02/2008 at 00:52:53
1 Posted 07/02/2008 at 00:52:53
Rob Styles got dropped cos of gifting chelski a penalty against RS.
Only one i can think of
Only one i can think of
sean condon
2 Posted 07/02/2008 at 02:00:10
2 Posted 07/02/2008 at 02:00:10
You are correct Lyndon, Clattenburg was not disciplined in October (that didn’t stop several media outlets from pronouncing that he had been simply because of the scheduling you refer to above). Sheesh, what turds!
I know that this is easy to say now, but i’ve never liked that guy. He received a fair amount of positive attention early on (two/three seasons ago?) leading to a profile on the Prem Preview show (Sky? Used to be on in Canada, not any more). In that feature I thought he came across as a smug prick who had an inflated sense of his own value. A lot of false humility. Just my opinion, mind you.
As for Wiley/Tanner, I don’t know that I take any comfort in the wrist slaps they got today. Tanner, for one, was so bad in that 2nd half that he should lose his job, full stop. Really, is it that fucking hard to find some balding forty-something to run up and down a touchline for 90min without jamming the flag up his ass?
I thought the Rob Styles penalty incident at Anfield was 50/50. You see dodgier spot-kicks given every single week. Am I alone in finding Styles’ almost trembling apology a bit suspicious? It was like Sonny Corleone had paid him a visit overnight. Fuck me, this issue is so frustrating.
I think Steve Bennett’s a decent ref.
Bet we get a penalty very soon.COYB!!!
I know that this is easy to say now, but i’ve never liked that guy. He received a fair amount of positive attention early on (two/three seasons ago?) leading to a profile on the Prem Preview show (Sky? Used to be on in Canada, not any more). In that feature I thought he came across as a smug prick who had an inflated sense of his own value. A lot of false humility. Just my opinion, mind you.
As for Wiley/Tanner, I don’t know that I take any comfort in the wrist slaps they got today. Tanner, for one, was so bad in that 2nd half that he should lose his job, full stop. Really, is it that fucking hard to find some balding forty-something to run up and down a touchline for 90min without jamming the flag up his ass?
I thought the Rob Styles penalty incident at Anfield was 50/50. You see dodgier spot-kicks given every single week. Am I alone in finding Styles’ almost trembling apology a bit suspicious? It was like Sonny Corleone had paid him a visit overnight. Fuck me, this issue is so frustrating.
I think Steve Bennett’s a decent ref.
Bet we get a penalty very soon.COYB!!!
Rich Grisdale
3 Posted 07/02/2008 at 03:04:56
3 Posted 07/02/2008 at 03:04:56
Maybe it's English refs or something? We have got a fair few in Europe with Victor getting pulled down. I agree with Sean that a penalty will be given soon in PL, hopefully starting on Saturday.
Paul Momber
4 Posted 07/02/2008 at 05:57:03
4 Posted 07/02/2008 at 05:57:03
Yeah we will probably get a penalty against Reading this week simply because who the f*** are Reading and what are they going to do about it. Shit on the smaller clubs and keep the supposed top 4 clubs safe and sound at the top.
Cliff Zampost
5 Posted 07/02/2008 at 05:32:50
5 Posted 07/02/2008 at 05:32:50
The writings on the wall. Just open your eyes. Liverpool needs a lift to get back to 4th spot and with the sway of bad ref decisions against us lately will be costly to insure they the richer club liverpool take the last CL spot. Evertons harsh refs penalty decisions was visible early, just remember the last derby between both clubs, how liverpool recieved 2 penalties fairly, but yet everton’s penalties were visibly denied, especially the late lescott foul in the box in injury time would have salvaged a draw when they were down to 9 men. Sadly its so predictable when it comes down to the wire on refs penalty decisions, everton always get screwed. Gerrard seems to always win a penalty when he dives or gets contacted lightly, where AJ in contrast gets constantly ignored. I assure you when Everton go to anfield soon and the pressure is on for 4th spot, everton will be slaughtered again by the men with flags and whistles.
Ste Barton
6 Posted 07/02/2008 at 06:51:55
6 Posted 07/02/2008 at 06:51:55
Cliff,
have to dis-agree that Liverpool received 2 penalties fairly.
If you see the replay taken from directly behing Hibert and Gerrard. (similar to the view the ref would have had). It is clear that Gerrards leg comes across quite deliberately into Hibberts path.
From this point of view it should have clearly been a free kick to Everton.
have to dis-agree that Liverpool received 2 penalties fairly.
If you see the replay taken from directly behing Hibert and Gerrard. (similar to the view the ref would have had). It is clear that Gerrards leg comes across quite deliberately into Hibberts path.
From this point of view it should have clearly been a free kick to Everton.
norman merrill
7 Posted 07/02/2008 at 07:13:14
7 Posted 07/02/2008 at 07:13:14
If thats what they call punishment, dished out to Wiley and his sidekick, then one can see, why the refs are not bothered.
I am sure they still pick up their pieces of silver.
And just annoy other teams, and supporters, in the lower didisions.
I am sure they still pick up their pieces of silver.
And just annoy other teams, and supporters, in the lower didisions.
Ste Kenny
8 Posted 07/02/2008 at 07:59:35
8 Posted 07/02/2008 at 07:59:35
Although we are hard done by with regards to referee’s imo we make it easy for a ref to give a decision against us. I’m not a fan of people screaming in the ref’s face but if our competitors are doing it so should we. What bothers me most about the referee is why are they all mid 40’s? Surely a younger fitter person with a better sense of vision is better suited to the job.
David
9 Posted 07/02/2008 at 08:45:09
9 Posted 07/02/2008 at 08:45:09
Surely dropping the referee and lines man for the next Premiership game has no positive effect for Everton.
In fact if anything it could be a hindrance to us as those poor FA Officials will be denied the chance to make a similar error to one of our Premiership rivals, potentially denying them of some vital points!
I am just hoping that we may now get some decisions given in our favour in the last third of the season. As they say these things should even themselves out. However In our case over the last few seasons I have seen little evidence of this.
In fact if anything it could be a hindrance to us as those poor FA Officials will be denied the chance to make a similar error to one of our Premiership rivals, potentially denying them of some vital points!
I am just hoping that we may now get some decisions given in our favour in the last third of the season. As they say these things should even themselves out. However In our case over the last few seasons I have seen little evidence of this.
alex K
10 Posted 07/02/2008 at 08:52:57
10 Posted 07/02/2008 at 08:52:57
does anyone remember what happened after the derby fiasco?
11 games unbeaten....heres to another 11 with the african lads returning!
11 games unbeaten....heres to another 11 with the african lads returning!
Tony Part
11 Posted 07/02/2008 at 09:52:18
11 Posted 07/02/2008 at 09:52:18
Its all well and good suspending Wiley and his comedy double act but its not going to help us get the two extra points we should have had.. Heres another couple of joke refferee decisions which maybe were overlooked a bit..Chelsea away last day of last season..Paulo Ferreira blatantly hacks down Arteta from behind and as a result Chelsea score on the attack..McFadden has goal ruled out in injury time even though he was on-side and Beattie wjo was not active in that move was the only one off-side..Robbed of a famous win and also lost out on 5th place because of that..Premier League refs summed up in two words...UTTER DISGRACE!
Raj Parbat
12 Posted 07/02/2008 at 12:12:51
12 Posted 07/02/2008 at 12:12:51
Officals that spring to mind that have wronged Everton over the years:
Clive Thomas
Collina
Clattenburg
Blackburn officials
Im sure there is more, feel free to add.
Clive Thomas
Collina
Clattenburg
Blackburn officials
Im sure there is more, feel free to add.
jimmy
13 Posted 07/02/2008 at 12:36:16
13 Posted 07/02/2008 at 12:36:16
What’s the name of the idiot during the 2000 derby which ruled out Everton’s legal goal when Sander Westerveld kicked the ball to Don Hutchison and the ball bounced back into the Liverpool net.
The damn referee ruled that Don Hutchison was interfering with the goalkeeper and ruled the goal out.
When what Don did was just walking back to the other half with his back facing the Liverpool goal.
I up to here with all these bastard officials. Colina the corruptor was another one.
And all of the legitimage penalty that we deserve that was not given just because the player is AJ.
Even the Yak has a few legitimate call ruled out.
What has all these officials got against us?
Do they expect bribes from us?
I didn’t sleep a wink after the Blackbun game thinking that there is a genuiene conspiracy against us by the FA.
We were the only team to break into the top four in the last couple of years and we did so unexpectedly.
Somebody big in English football thinks that this is a bad trend and it must be stopped.
The damn referee ruled that Don Hutchison was interfering with the goalkeeper and ruled the goal out.
When what Don did was just walking back to the other half with his back facing the Liverpool goal.
I up to here with all these bastard officials. Colina the corruptor was another one.
And all of the legitimage penalty that we deserve that was not given just because the player is AJ.
Even the Yak has a few legitimate call ruled out.
What has all these officials got against us?
Do they expect bribes from us?
I didn’t sleep a wink after the Blackbun game thinking that there is a genuiene conspiracy against us by the FA.
We were the only team to break into the top four in the last couple of years and we did so unexpectedly.
Somebody big in English football thinks that this is a bad trend and it must be stopped.
jimmy
14 Posted 07/02/2008 at 12:44:57
14 Posted 07/02/2008 at 12:44:57
Remember, we had one foot in the Champion League until the bastard Collina’s cancelled Big Dunc’s perfectly legitimate goal.
Collina must’ve gotten his orders or bribe or both from somebody big up there.
I just wished one everton supporter would track down someone like Collina and run him down with his car.
That’ll send a strong signal to other referees not to mess with us.
FUCK THEM ALL.
Collina must’ve gotten his orders or bribe or both from somebody big up there.
I just wished one everton supporter would track down someone like Collina and run him down with his car.
That’ll send a strong signal to other referees not to mess with us.
FUCK THEM ALL.
Jack Calvert
15 Posted 07/02/2008 at 12:58:40
15 Posted 07/02/2008 at 12:58:40
You can guarantee that what will happen is what was always happening (or seemed to happen) last season with AJ. AJ has a reputation for going down easilly, so this pre-conception brought a few "NO" votes to penalty claims. We would highlight in the media that they were genuine/stone wall claims in the hope that the refs realise they got it wrong. Come next game AJ would get a "soft" penalty shout the ref would give it as evidence has been showing that he doesn’t cheat. However the next day the media would hound the officials for allowing AJ to cheat. And the cycle would continue. Games against Blackburn (a), Sheffield United (h) and Aston Villa (a) are examples of this. The point being we have had several stone wallers turned down this year, on a variety of players, not just AJ. As soon as we get a penalty you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be a soft one and our players will be hounded in the media for being cheats. And therefore as a result go 12 months before we get another 1!!
Shaun Kinnair
16 Posted 07/02/2008 at 13:21:23
16 Posted 07/02/2008 at 13:21:23
maybe 1 or 2 refs have a bet at the bookies... what do you think?
patty
17 Posted 07/02/2008 at 13:49:31
17 Posted 07/02/2008 at 13:49:31
Jimmy - The ref you are thinking of who was involved in saying he had blown his whistle before Don Hutchison scored was
Graham Poll [ self-confessed Liverpool supporter!!]
In fact he blew his whistle after the goal so it was perfectly legitimate.
Look what happened to hijm - gave 3 yellow cards in the world cup to one player!! Wankers all of them.
Graham Poll [ self-confessed Liverpool supporter!!]
In fact he blew his whistle after the goal so it was perfectly legitimate.
Look what happened to hijm - gave 3 yellow cards in the world cup to one player!! Wankers all of them.
David Graves
18 Posted 07/02/2008 at 15:01:24
18 Posted 07/02/2008 at 15:01:24
Jimmy,
Laughed out loud.
Nothing like rationale & reasoned argument is there.
Laughed out loud.
Nothing like rationale & reasoned argument is there.
Dave Lynch
19 Posted 07/02/2008 at 15:24:08
19 Posted 07/02/2008 at 15:24:08
Lads.
Stop crucifying yourselves. It will all work out in the end.
What will be will be and we have no control over it.
The refs call it the way they see it at the time.
Just because they are corrupt, bent, bribe-- taking, spineless, overpaid, useless, arse licking toads.
Does not give us the right to question there integrity.
Stop crucifying yourselves. It will all work out in the end.
What will be will be and we have no control over it.
The refs call it the way they see it at the time.
Just because they are corrupt, bent, bribe-- taking, spineless, overpaid, useless, arse licking toads.
Does not give us the right to question there integrity.
Tony Part
20 Posted 07/02/2008 at 15:38:16
20 Posted 07/02/2008 at 15:38:16
I remember that Hutchison goal..Poll shit himself because if that goal had counted it would have meant we had done ’the double’ over Liverpool and at the same time cost them any hope of qualification for the Champions League which they missed out on anyway that year..Poll took an easy option claiming time was up when in actual fact only 1 minute and 45 seconds had elapsed of the allotted 2 minutes..I really despair of when we will ever be free from the curse of the refferee,what will it be this week?. Perhaps Johnson will get mown down by a tank in the Reading penalty area but dont worry he still wont be awarded a penalty..Honestly they could bring a book or dvd out about Evertons refferee saga..
Peter Keating
21 Posted 07/02/2008 at 15:56:11
21 Posted 07/02/2008 at 15:56:11
Does anyone else think that Collina’s retirement from refing co-insiding with his bad decisions in the Champions League was coincidence? Especially in light of the match fixing in Italy
ron leith
22 Posted 07/02/2008 at 16:13:33
22 Posted 07/02/2008 at 16:13:33
It is not just the glaringly obvious bad decisions that get me its the general bias throughout the 90 mins in games against Man Utd etc. However, these are a few ref nasties I recall. Wiley against Man Utd who should have sent off Scholes but bottled it. Poll was the guy that sent off our 2 of our players in the Derby and McFadden against Arsenal for nout. Riley gave Van Nistleroy a very dubious penalty when we miised out on Europe. Ellery sent of Ferguson for using bad language. Even Bennett gave Southampton a dubious penalty against us a few years back. The list is endless.
Tom Winek
23 Posted 07/02/2008 at 16:21:44
23 Posted 07/02/2008 at 16:21:44
I think with all the recent injustices, we might just finally find ourselves on the receiving end of some decisions. It shouldn’t be as a result of some blatantly bad calls but that’s the way it is. Reading beware! I think we might hammer them this weekend.
Adam Carey
24 Posted 07/02/2008 at 16:46:29
24 Posted 07/02/2008 at 16:46:29
Peter, quite clearly we have the audacity to challenge the Sky 4, which is what we’re doing wrong. The G14 don’t want the applecart tipped do they?
Keith Glazzard
25 Posted 07/02/2008 at 18:26:11
25 Posted 07/02/2008 at 18:26:11
Collina - who was reported to have waved away Everton protests saying "I am the best referee in the world" - was told by the Italian ref’s association that he couln’t take advertising fees from a firm that owned an Italian Serie A club, and ref Serie A matches. He disagreed. They told him to fuck off.
I wonder what Clattenkuynt did say to Moyes after the game? The more I think about it, the more I think this is why sweet FA have dropped the charges.
Last thing - the deduction of a goal from Everton (and two points) was solely the responsibility of the referee. The "assistant’s" flag should have been ignored/overruled. He could have asked for an explanation at the very least. The fact that Blackburn were lining up for the restart might have alerted him to the fact that lino-head got it wrong.
I wonder what Clattenkuynt did say to Moyes after the game? The more I think about it, the more I think this is why sweet FA have dropped the charges.
Last thing - the deduction of a goal from Everton (and two points) was solely the responsibility of the referee. The "assistant’s" flag should have been ignored/overruled. He could have asked for an explanation at the very least. The fact that Blackburn were lining up for the restart might have alerted him to the fact that lino-head got it wrong.
Matthew Lovekin
26 Posted 07/02/2008 at 18:26:33
26 Posted 07/02/2008 at 18:26:33
If these refs are being ’punished’ by the FA, they are admitting the decisions made by the referee were wrong. However, although the FA feels this clears their conscience, this doesn’t do Everton any favours and all is then swept under the carpet by the FA as they have acted accordingly.
The reason of these decisions is simple: we are getting too close to the ’wonderful big 4 who absolutely everyone loves and must be protected clubs’.
After today’s proposals by the Premier League, it’s simple they want to protect the big 4. More subs on bench next season so the big 4 can change the match more if there is a slight chance they might be losing a lesser side. The big clubs will also get bigger squads and sign players that clubs like Everton would otherwise sign, therefore strengthening the big 4’s position at the top.
Also, this new ’international round of fixtures’ will just mean more money for the bigger clubs. Can you imagine 80,000 fans in Bangkok watching Reading against Wigan? No, it’s just so the big clubs can get more fans and more money. Now there will be more Man Utd fans in Kuala Lumpur than Manchester. There needs to be justice in the PL. Look at how the NFL works. The worst team gets the first choice of player they sign for the next season, and the best club gets the last pick of player. Two ways to solve this is to either radically change the youth set up in this country by rather than the clubs having academys, there is a national academy, which when a player gets to say 18, the last placed team in the PL gets to pick, then the second last team and so on.
Or, do the same system, not on young players but money. Rather than the PL champions getting 10m, the last placed team get 10m and the champions get 500k.
Any ideas?
The reason of these decisions is simple: we are getting too close to the ’wonderful big 4 who absolutely everyone loves and must be protected clubs’.
After today’s proposals by the Premier League, it’s simple they want to protect the big 4. More subs on bench next season so the big 4 can change the match more if there is a slight chance they might be losing a lesser side. The big clubs will also get bigger squads and sign players that clubs like Everton would otherwise sign, therefore strengthening the big 4’s position at the top.
Also, this new ’international round of fixtures’ will just mean more money for the bigger clubs. Can you imagine 80,000 fans in Bangkok watching Reading against Wigan? No, it’s just so the big clubs can get more fans and more money. Now there will be more Man Utd fans in Kuala Lumpur than Manchester. There needs to be justice in the PL. Look at how the NFL works. The worst team gets the first choice of player they sign for the next season, and the best club gets the last pick of player. Two ways to solve this is to either radically change the youth set up in this country by rather than the clubs having academys, there is a national academy, which when a player gets to say 18, the last placed team in the PL gets to pick, then the second last team and so on.
Or, do the same system, not on young players but money. Rather than the PL champions getting 10m, the last placed team get 10m and the champions get 500k.
Any ideas?
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