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£12m Manny or £4m Koumas

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Wish Moyes would clarify what position Manual Fernandes plays. We looked so unbalanced in the first half. If he is a holding player then he is not needed. If he is an attacking midfielder, he'd better start getting more petrol in the tank.

Just read that Koumas is available at £4 mill. Our Davey has brought the best out of the Yak and Jags and I'd fancey he would get the best out of Koumas who has got the skill to be a great attacking central midfielder, with the bonus that he wants to come here. He would love to come here.
Colin Malone, wirral     Posted 10/02/2008 at 13:17:45

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Lyndon Lloyd
If Fernandes is a holding player then he's exactly what we need — young, with passing vision and skill and a candidate to replace Lee Carsley long-term, probably starting next season.

We're a top-four team, Colin, and are now shopping in higher-class markets than the one where Jason Koumas — who can't hold down a first-team place at Wigan — is seen as a good signing. We need genuine quality not nearly-men.

Connor Rohrer
1   Posted 10/02/2008 at 16:29:58

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Colin Malone, your always going on about Manny’s lack of "engine" and you bring Koumas up. What the fuck? One of the laziest players I’ve seen which is the reason he doesn’t get into the team at Wigan.

I was speaking to a Wigan fan after our game a few weeks ago and he told me why Koumas wasn’t in the side. When Koumas loses the ball he doesn’t try and win it back.

"We looked so unbalanced in the first half."

So thats Fernandes’s fault? The team as a whole was playing shit. Fernandes was no worse than Osman, Cahill, Carsley or Arteta and thats being honest. We haven’t looked good in midfield since Pienaar and Yakubu left.

I have no doubts that Fernandes is alot better than Koumas now and has the ability to get even better. Koumas is 28 and probably getting to his peak yet still hasn’t proved himself outside the Championship. Fernandes is 21 and could develop into a very good player.

I think you should be saying Koumas for 4 million and Fernandes for 8 million which is the reported price. Fernandes every time for me. He hasn’t hit the heights of last season yet but he’s still got 12 premier League games and potentially 9 Uefa cup games to show his worth and I’m sure he will.
David OBrien
2   Posted 10/02/2008 at 17:00:32

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Didn’t Jose Moreegio say he ’was in the Makele mould’ or some other similar cliched statement? He is supposedly a holding mid’ but he has so much skill that if he can replicate Carlsley’s defensive effort’s (ability?) then our midfield will take on a whole new look as the man can play the ball on the carpet.
Neil Pearse
3   Posted 10/02/2008 at 17:00:46

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Koumas is a back-up squad player at best for us. Manny is a potential world class talent. I’d have Koumas for £1.5M to sometimes get on the bench, and pay £10M for Manny to dominate the midfield.

I think Manny is a ’box to box’ midfielder, not a holding player. As many have said on this site, the most important new signing for us in the summer HAS to be a high quality Carsley replacement. Then we will see what Manny is really capable of.
ron leith
4   Posted 10/02/2008 at 17:04:51

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Moyes has said recently that on the continent some teams play with two holding midfield players. They in effect take it in turns to go forward. I would not read to much into the Reading game.They were playing 4-4-2 and my son who is only 11 years old said to me that EFC will take off Fernandez and bring on Vaughan. He could see that we needed to match up to their formation and Fernandez was sitting too deep. However, against another team like Spurs or Man City who knows. The ability to change tactics is a positive sign to me. Moyes is normally critisised for not doing this. So he is dammed if he does and dammed if he don’t.
Mick Dempsey
5   Posted 10/02/2008 at 16:48:56

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We have exhausted this one a thousand times, When Moyes plays 4-4-1-1 Carsley is the holding/ sheilding midfielder in front of the back four, Fernades plays more of a creative midfielder supporting Cahill and Johnson. If he played 4-4-2 with Arteta and Fernandes as central midfield players, in my opinion Mikel would be the more forward midfield player and Fernanades would be more of the holding player. Bu I dont think we have the balance to play a succesful 4-4-2, that is why Moyes insisits on having four midfield players on the pitch. I remember Juve playing a 4-4-1-1 with Alessandro Del Piero playing behind David Trézéguet, both strikers but Piero doing the Cahill job. It realy is about having the right players to play a formation, and for all his snapping and tackling Carsley for me should be doing more with the ball when he wins it, but he just has not got that creativity in his locker, instead of hoofing the ball away he should be looking to pass the ball.
mick Mac
6   Posted 10/02/2008 at 17:14:24

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sorry Moyes insists on having Five midfielders typo
Jeremy Benson
7   Posted 10/02/2008 at 17:23:16

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We need to buy Piennar. He’s the one.

Is there money in the pot for two central midfielders? I very much doubt it. I suspect we will buy Piennar, + a left winger, in the summer.

I would love a carsley replacement - but fact is, defensive midfielders are the most expensive type at the moment. I suspect we will use Jagielka or Neville in that role in the future.


Terry Lloyd
8   Posted 10/02/2008 at 17:16:55

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Right first thing do you think Moyes would buy some squad player from Wigan, Moyes was after Downing, an English International. Anyway this Fernandes thing and his position read this and then decide, 4-5-1 could be seen as a defensive formation, however if the two midfield wingers play a more attacking role it can be likened to 4-3-3. The formation can be used to grind out 0-0 draws or preserve a lead, as the packing of the centre midfield makes it difficult for the opposition to build-up play. Because of the ’closeness’ of the midfield, the opposing team’s forwards will often be starved of possession. However, due to the lone striker, the centre of the midfield does have the responsibility of pushing forward as well. The defensive midfielder will often control the pace of the game.

A modification of this formation is also used by José Mourinho’s Chelsea F.C. side. This modified version is the 4-1-4-1 where only one striker is used and the wingers are given the responsibility of moving the ball forward and attacking. A holding midfielder is also positioned in front of the back four. This provides freedom for the rest of the team to move forward and attack as the defense will be "protected" by the holding midfielder
Can Manny play that role, do half of it, but the breaking up of play?, Carsley can do half of it, but cant pick a decent pass out
Mick Simo
9   Posted 10/02/2008 at 17:55:40

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It is more than half way throught the season so why are you thinking of transfers, Koumas is not good enough for Everton. Getting back to what is Fernandes best position in midfield, for me Carsley is to restricted in his ability to play an holding position, the reasons being is if you look at the best players who have played this position have more to there game, Makelele, Gilberto, Mascherano, Hargreaves to name but a few. What I would love to see Moyed do is find another Midfielder who can play the ’double pivot’ , 2 holding midfielders who offered protection and also took it in turns going forward. Vieira was the master of this and he was aided in the other slot by Petitt and then Gilberto. That midfield was perfect and I do see Fernandes and an other capable of playing these roles, with the likes of Arteta and Pienaar out wide, I would expect Moyes to for a top class central Midfield player next year and I do see Fernandes being part of his plans for next season also.
Keith Glazzard
10   Posted 10/02/2008 at 18:25:24

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I agree with Lyndon Lloyd’s comment at the top. A player like Fernandes has to be the future. Koumas? At the right price, a squad player for the bench perhaps. Who knows, on that basis a player like him could "do a Carsley" and become a genuinely good PL player. But it would have to be that way round
terry smith
11   Posted 10/02/2008 at 18:52:55

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Lets not foget Fernandes is not 100% match fit.Koumas is and still cant get into W.B.A & Wigans first team now.There is no contest Fernandes will start to shine when he is match fit the only way to do this is to get games under his belt
James Murphy
12   Posted 10/02/2008 at 19:02:07

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Koumas? We should be looking at better players than him to improve the team. Fernandes and Cahill, like the rest of the midfield will be better when Yakubu returns, he allows the midfield to play their natural game, AJ is ineffective playing up top on his own, he cant hold the ball up, he’s never going to come deep and offer himself, you have got to play him with a target man.
John Martin
13   Posted 10/02/2008 at 19:20:51

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i agree we are now above the likes of Koumas being signed. Moyes himself has said he is looking at champions league standard players. We need a quality midfielder to play alongside Manny, somebody strong and quick. In todays game everybody says about the need for a holding midfielder but i long for the day when we return to having 2 centre midfielders that do it all ala Reid and Bracewell. In todays game Reid would be made to sit and hold when he offered much more. A Player like Appiah would be a great signing.
James Murphy
14   Posted 10/02/2008 at 19:33:11

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I agree John about Bracwell and Reid but the game as now got faster and more Forigners have influenced the way we play, When they both played, we had great balance in the side, with two very good natural wide players in Sheedy and Steven, with top class right and left backs to support them. Every other team played the same way, no christmas trees or diamonds then it was all 4-4-2. The thing is its all about the magic formula balance, also in this day of super fast strikers its also good cover to have a holding midfielder to insure against counter attacks. Modern football John, with a massive european and world infulence in coaching, bit diffrent from the 1980s
Gavin Ramejkis
15   Posted 10/02/2008 at 20:38:59

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Will people stop warbling on about Downing the Engerland international, he only got played for two simple reasons; the first his former boss selected him and look where he is now and how many left footed wingers are there in England? Koumas is shite if he was any good he wouldn’t be getting splinters in his arse at Wigan
Colin Malone
16   Posted 10/02/2008 at 19:57:49

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Lyndon, As for manny being a replacement for Lee Carsley, you having a laugh? Manny cannot tackle. Do you really think Manny will do a better job than Lee Carsley?, we,ve all seen when Carsley does,nt play, we are left wide open at the back.ie euro game when Captain Neville got the nod, the season he was missing through injury, where did we finish?. The unsung hero i now believe.

As for Koumas, i think Moyes could get the best out of him, yes he is a lazy type player, as was the Yak. Koumas was WBA player of the year and now getting played out of position at Wigan, the lad played for he,s country last week, in he,s rightful attacking center mid position and scored two goals. We,ve been crying out for this type of player, a loan deal at first would,nt be a gamble.
Kenny Jones
17   Posted 10/02/2008 at 20:46:46

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Jason fuck face Koumas you are having a laugh, I suppose we should buy that other fuck face Nugent, oh what about all the other no marks people wanted us to buy like Barton. One thing I can agree on Carsley is important to us, but he is limited with his distribution and passing, he also gets needless yellow cards early on in a game and this hinders him in the tackle. Koumas not good enough in the premiere league.
Peter Hall
18   Posted 10/02/2008 at 21:39:49

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Jason Koumas was a decision for four years ago. If we’d bought him then for the £1m or so he was offered for then he might have become (under Moyes)consistently the player who outclassed us at Goodison in that cup match for Tranmere - far the most talented player on the field. I wish we had. We’ll never know; but there’s no way we should try to find out now.

Some things are just too late. Next case.
John Martin
19   Posted 10/02/2008 at 22:45:51

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James, I realise the game as moved on thats why I said I long for the likes of Bracewell & Reid. Todays footballer in central midfield gets pigeon holed and do one job while the likes of Bracewell and Reid could do the lot.
Ricardo Humphries
20   Posted 11/02/2008 at 05:07:47

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Kenny, relax...

what do your guys think of getting Dortmund’s Buckley? He has played pretty well for Dortmund this season, he’s a natural wide player and can whip in dangerous ball, the guy has a brilliant left foot...someone that can beef up our squad for next season!
John Lloyd
21   Posted 11/02/2008 at 08:51:10

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Haven't we had Buckley over on a trial? Wasn't good enough then.
Damian Wilde
22   Posted 11/02/2008 at 13:14:50

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Lyndon, I agree with some of the others, RE: comments about Manny replacing Cars. I see your point, as some have said that he could be a Makelele type player. But, do you see Manny getting stuck in, doing all the dirty stuff? I don?t. He has talent, but he isn't the hardest working player. Interesting debate though.
John Malone
23   Posted 10/03/2008 at 20:55:15

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Fernandes has got bags of ability and great vision but can get caught in possesion cannot win a header, cant tackle and lacks fitness, the question is can we afford to gamble on his talents and hope he improves on his floors, id say no we are not wealthy enough and do not have a big enough squad to carry the lad, i think koumas is worth a loan deal but dont think he’s the answer, we need an alonso type player but were we get him i dont know

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