The Mail Bag
Painful EFC memories
Comments (16)
I was watching the History of EFC video (BBC, from late 80s, Motty narrates) last night for the millionth time. I've always wished that the program had more 70's footage. I grew up in Orrell in the 70's and went nearly every other week between '74-'77 (paddock, Lower Bullens, always). This time period is not generally regarded as a glorious time in our story, but it is special to me, and, really, if we hadn't lost home and away to Carlisle in '74-'75.....
Anyway, once again I was struck by how amazed I am that an event that occurred over 30 years ago still retains the power to cause fresh pain. I am referring to Bryan Hamilton's disallowed winner against the RS in the '77 FA Cup semi-final. I watched it like, six times in a row, stupidly hoping that somehow it was going to be given. Fuck.
But that can't compare to Bobby MacDonald in '86. I need to let this shit go, I know. For instance, being an adult now, I've already processed, dealt with and mostly forgotten Clattenburg and am moving on from Wiley/Tanner as well. But those traumatic childhood events just keep lingerin'.
I think that I would've been better off if I'd been a fuckin' altar boy. At least I could get counselling (and perhaps money) for that!!!
Sean Condon, Posted 10/02/2008 at 21:06:54
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Paul Conatzer
2 Posted 11/02/2008 at 01:10:48
2 Posted 11/02/2008 at 01:10:48
That’s not an old concept. Alf Garnett accused them of the same many years ago...and if you can’t believe Alf, who can you believe?
Toby Bruce
3 Posted 11/02/2008 at 10:00:20
3 Posted 11/02/2008 at 10:00:20
What is this about Sean ?
"But that can?t compare to Bobby MacDonald in ?86."
I am dying to know now.
I don?t think forgetting injustices in decisions is necessary. It gives some sense of what to expect in the future sometimes. Also it makes successes even more sweet I think.
I too have that John Motson narration of Everton history. For me the most sickening thing ever is Lampard?s 1980 semi-final winner for West Spam. That event made me into a pessimist I think, but it taught me somethings too. It made the 1984 revival sweeter.
Also the history of results is the history of your football club. The phrases ?put it behind you?, and ?moving on? - doesn?t have to mean forgetting. It could mean not getting blindly angry.
Functional anger could be channeled into why RS get ?more? luck - and was noted above. I think the stronger the sides form (Man U., RS) the more the referee gets mesmerized by it and it acts as a form of inertia that the ?right? result is obtained due to some sort of natural ordering of a hierarchy (IE RS or MAn U should win because they are ?stronger? anyway). A bias is introduced in the decision making process.
"But that can?t compare to Bobby MacDonald in ?86."
I am dying to know now.
I don?t think forgetting injustices in decisions is necessary. It gives some sense of what to expect in the future sometimes. Also it makes successes even more sweet I think.
I too have that John Motson narration of Everton history. For me the most sickening thing ever is Lampard?s 1980 semi-final winner for West Spam. That event made me into a pessimist I think, but it taught me somethings too. It made the 1984 revival sweeter.
Also the history of results is the history of your football club. The phrases ?put it behind you?, and ?moving on? - doesn?t have to mean forgetting. It could mean not getting blindly angry.
Functional anger could be channeled into why RS get ?more? luck - and was noted above. I think the stronger the sides form (Man U., RS) the more the referee gets mesmerized by it and it acts as a form of inertia that the ?right? result is obtained due to some sort of natural ordering of a hierarchy (IE RS or MAn U should win because they are ?stronger? anyway). A bias is introduced in the decision making process.
Laurie Hartley
4 Posted 11/02/2008 at 10:42:41
4 Posted 11/02/2008 at 10:42:41
I’d write to Captain Haddock if I was you Sean :)
Will Mitchell
5 Posted 11/02/2008 at 13:48:10
5 Posted 11/02/2008 at 13:48:10
Finishing 4th and winning the UEFA cup will go a long way towards exorcising those demons.
Dave Wilson
6 Posted 11/02/2008 at 13:30:26
6 Posted 11/02/2008 at 13:30:26
Great post Sean
Me mates arl fella had a punchbag and he used to get a print of Clive thomas’s face sewn into it, I’m not joking, he battered the fuck out of it every day for 2-3 years, only ever having days off to sew a new face in, they moved away round about 1980
I still imagine him now pounding away at Clattenberg
Me mates arl fella had a punchbag and he used to get a print of Clive thomas’s face sewn into it, I’m not joking, he battered the fuck out of it every day for 2-3 years, only ever having days off to sew a new face in, they moved away round about 1980
I still imagine him now pounding away at Clattenberg
Peter Hall
7 Posted 10/02/2008 at 21:32:03
7 Posted 10/02/2008 at 21:32:03
DNP: Moyes vs Rooney
Have I missed anything? What is the latest on Moyes' action against Rooney for defamation?
Trudy Boston
8 Posted 11/02/2008 at 17:03:44
8 Posted 11/02/2008 at 17:03:44
Oddly enough, i watched the exact same tape yesterday myself. (History of everton from 1900-1988, narrated by john motson)
A must for any everton fan or supporter who can witness some of the best and worst on offer going back and beyond the days of william ralph dean.
Because the video was released in 1988, the ending footage covers a brief footage of the van den hauwe goal at norwich that captured the 1987 league title, and the subsequent signings made by harvey once howard had left for athletic bilbao.
My favourite part is the 1966 final (and beating of some rubbish in the semi-final) when mike trebilcock and temple made us the only team to ever win an FA cup final after recovering from a 2 goal defecit. Of course the beating of watford in the cup final and the sharp anfield moment and the 5-0 routing of the aforementioned rubbish at goodison also brings a tear to the eye.
And of course the thomas moment in the 77 cup semi final will never be forgotten or forgiven by fans of this club but its been over thirty years now and i got over it long ago. Maybe in years to come there can be another addition- the moyes years 2002 --- hopefully sometime soon we can start winning some trophies for future generations to savour.
A must for any everton fan or supporter who can witness some of the best and worst on offer going back and beyond the days of william ralph dean.
Because the video was released in 1988, the ending footage covers a brief footage of the van den hauwe goal at norwich that captured the 1987 league title, and the subsequent signings made by harvey once howard had left for athletic bilbao.
My favourite part is the 1966 final (and beating of some rubbish in the semi-final) when mike trebilcock and temple made us the only team to ever win an FA cup final after recovering from a 2 goal defecit. Of course the beating of watford in the cup final and the sharp anfield moment and the 5-0 routing of the aforementioned rubbish at goodison also brings a tear to the eye.
And of course the thomas moment in the 77 cup semi final will never be forgotten or forgiven by fans of this club but its been over thirty years now and i got over it long ago. Maybe in years to come there can be another addition- the moyes years 2002 --- hopefully sometime soon we can start winning some trophies for future generations to savour.
Micky Norman
9 Posted 11/02/2008 at 17:48:17
9 Posted 11/02/2008 at 17:48:17
Remembering these bad times just makes the good times much sweeter. Enjoy the rest of our season.
Keith Taylor
10 Posted 11/02/2008 at 18:14:34
10 Posted 11/02/2008 at 18:14:34
Sean
Put us out of our misery who is Bobby MacDonal and what did he do?
Put us out of our misery who is Bobby MacDonal and what did he do?
Steve A
11 Posted 11/02/2008 at 18:08:10
11 Posted 11/02/2008 at 18:08:10
While we’re going back in time - I watched the new updated history DVD recently and just wondered if anyone has ever seen footage of Pat Nevin’s goal against Norwich at Villa Park in the semi on the day of Hillsborough. I know this is painful for alot of people but I’ve only ever seen it once and that was live from the other end.
Sean - Bobby MacDonald, spill the beans.
Sean - Bobby MacDonald, spill the beans.
Karl Masters
12 Posted 11/02/2008 at 18:28:39
12 Posted 11/02/2008 at 18:28:39
Sean has confused himself and you with the Bobby MacDonald thing.
He is referring to us losing in the last minute at Oxford Utd on April 30, 1986, a game that cost us the title as the Shite won at Leicester the same night and moved two points clear sand won the League 3 days later. Oxford were a crap team and we were expected to win. It’s the game Lineker refers to when he had mislaid his lucky boots!
Where Sean has got confused is that it was not Bobby MacDonald who scored the 88th minute winner. It was some nobody called Les Phillips.
However, he did score against us a couple of years earlier in the sam fixture, the goal thatw as sending us out of the Milk Cup QF until the famous Kevin Brock back pass and Inchy Heath equalising. A game that is considered pivital in our 80’s success,
Hope that helps!!
However
He is referring to us losing in the last minute at Oxford Utd on April 30, 1986, a game that cost us the title as the Shite won at Leicester the same night and moved two points clear sand won the League 3 days later. Oxford were a crap team and we were expected to win. It’s the game Lineker refers to when he had mislaid his lucky boots!
Where Sean has got confused is that it was not Bobby MacDonald who scored the 88th minute winner. It was some nobody called Les Phillips.
However, he did score against us a couple of years earlier in the sam fixture, the goal thatw as sending us out of the Milk Cup QF until the famous Kevin Brock back pass and Inchy Heath equalising. A game that is considered pivital in our 80’s success,
Hope that helps!!
However
Brian Garside
13 Posted 11/02/2008 at 20:21:47
13 Posted 11/02/2008 at 20:21:47
B.Mc ran around in Coventry.Citeh+Oxford shirts for several years and was occasionaly accused of kicking a FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sean Condon
14 Posted 13/02/2008 at 02:14:39
14 Posted 13/02/2008 at 02:14:39
Ok. I was SURE it was Bobby Mac who scored that goal at the Manor Ground. Thought I had it on video, but can?t find it. Can?t find the George Orr books, either. Fuck. If I am indeed wrong, probably am, then sorry. Get really defensive about factual innacuracies re: knowledge of footy, film, music, etc...
Anyway, my letter wasn?t about a history of bad decisions against the peep?s club, simply a bemused rant about some stuff that has always got to me.
In 1986, I came home from school in Kelowna, BC one day to get the bad news from dad. OU 1 EFC 0. We weren?t done, there was still two games to go, but we WERE done, if ya know what I mean. I was 15, in the middle of an adolescent hell in a cultural backwater, living with a pair of super toxic parents(sorry, ma and pa, but it was true). Besides the Velvet Underground, it seemed that my only comfort and escape was in the exploits of Howard?s kings.
Winning the league in ?86 was a big fuckin? deal to me. I was aware that this team had a chance to place their name alongside the greatest sides of all-time-Arse in the Chapman yrs, the Shite under Shanks and Paisley(sorry, but facts don?t lie). We needed a double, we needed to win consecutive championships. Ah, well. After the ?85-?86 season (the cup final! Was it Hansen who handled in the box in 1st half?) I was seriously depressed all summer, couldn?t get it out of my mind. Now, remember, besides dad there?s not another Blue within 7,000 miles as far as I knew. So painful.
I perked up, got my first job and started saving for a trip to Goodison. I made it for the Wimbledon home match on Dec 18, or 19. Dad had written to the club and they sent my Auntie Jo in Orrell a pair of tickets and an invite to meet the players (never happened, Uncle Bob was fucking around with the car and we got to the ground too late to go in the dressing room).
Anyway, my letter wasn?t about a history of bad decisions against the peep?s club, simply a bemused rant about some stuff that has always got to me.
In 1986, I came home from school in Kelowna, BC one day to get the bad news from dad. OU 1 EFC 0. We weren?t done, there was still two games to go, but we WERE done, if ya know what I mean. I was 15, in the middle of an adolescent hell in a cultural backwater, living with a pair of super toxic parents(sorry, ma and pa, but it was true). Besides the Velvet Underground, it seemed that my only comfort and escape was in the exploits of Howard?s kings.
Winning the league in ?86 was a big fuckin? deal to me. I was aware that this team had a chance to place their name alongside the greatest sides of all-time-Arse in the Chapman yrs, the Shite under Shanks and Paisley(sorry, but facts don?t lie). We needed a double, we needed to win consecutive championships. Ah, well. After the ?85-?86 season (the cup final! Was it Hansen who handled in the box in 1st half?) I was seriously depressed all summer, couldn?t get it out of my mind. Now, remember, besides dad there?s not another Blue within 7,000 miles as far as I knew. So painful.
I perked up, got my first job and started saving for a trip to Goodison. I made it for the Wimbledon home match on Dec 18, or 19. Dad had written to the club and they sent my Auntie Jo in Orrell a pair of tickets and an invite to meet the players (never happened, Uncle Bob was fucking around with the car and we got to the ground too late to go in the dressing room).
Sean Condon
15 Posted 13/02/2008 at 02:39:35
15 Posted 13/02/2008 at 02:39:35
That day, when we got within a couple of miles of GP and you could see all the scarves hanging out of cars, my heart started to jump out of my chest. While Bob and Jo looked for parking, I couldn?t contain myself. I ran at full sprint for Goodison Road, tears pouring out of my eyes. Easily one of the most beautiful memories I have.
Over the next three weeks, well you all know what happened, we caught fire and never looked back. I went to every match over Xmas ?87 (except QPR away (we WIN on the plastic pitch, thanks Sharpie!).
The most fun was going up to St James on New Years Day (still drunk). I was proud to be called a ?scouse cunt? by many, many Geordies and we were fucking unbelievable! Power got the first, we won 4-0, but what I remember was Trevor Steven being the greatest player on earth on that particular day. I had never seen E away as a little kid and what a great experience it was! 35,000 frothing Barcodes offering to kick my head in!
There have been seasons when I was younger when I didn?t know much more about the team than the result in Sunday?s Vancouver paper. But not many.
For almost 35 years my veins have run Blue. Loving, hating, and often simply enduring this great club has always occupied a far larger slice of my being than is healthy. But who cares?
My grandad saw the record attendance match in, what, ?48? (Used to have the attendance committed to memory, but too much pot took care of that). My dad was a season ticket holder from the dark days of the early 50?s until his second kid (me) came along at the start of the glorious ?69-?70 campaign.
Over the next three weeks, well you all know what happened, we caught fire and never looked back. I went to every match over Xmas ?87 (except QPR away (we WIN on the plastic pitch, thanks Sharpie!).
The most fun was going up to St James on New Years Day (still drunk). I was proud to be called a ?scouse cunt? by many, many Geordies and we were fucking unbelievable! Power got the first, we won 4-0, but what I remember was Trevor Steven being the greatest player on earth on that particular day. I had never seen E away as a little kid and what a great experience it was! 35,000 frothing Barcodes offering to kick my head in!
There have been seasons when I was younger when I didn?t know much more about the team than the result in Sunday?s Vancouver paper. But not many.
For almost 35 years my veins have run Blue. Loving, hating, and often simply enduring this great club has always occupied a far larger slice of my being than is healthy. But who cares?
My grandad saw the record attendance match in, what, ?48? (Used to have the attendance committed to memory, but too much pot took care of that). My dad was a season ticket holder from the dark days of the early 50?s until his second kid (me) came along at the start of the glorious ?69-?70 campaign.
Sean Condon
16 Posted 13/02/2008 at 02:55:40
16 Posted 13/02/2008 at 02:55:40
I spent my childhood listening at my father?s knee about the great teams of the 60?s. Transfixed, always.
I?m a technophobe and just bought my first computer, like, a month ago! Have known about TW for a long time and often checked in on other people?s computers. But only recently have I come to start to fully appreciate this thing that I love so much.
It?s not as if I was unaware....but to be plugged into Toffees around the globe is a brand new experience for me. TW is my home page, I read pretty much every word and I probably need to look for a life soon. However, reading the musings of people who feel exactly like I do is continually blowing my mind. EFC Forever.
I?m a technophobe and just bought my first computer, like, a month ago! Have known about TW for a long time and often checked in on other people?s computers. But only recently have I come to start to fully appreciate this thing that I love so much.
It?s not as if I was unaware....but to be plugged into Toffees around the globe is a brand new experience for me. TW is my home page, I read pretty much every word and I probably need to look for a life soon. However, reading the musings of people who feel exactly like I do is continually blowing my mind. EFC Forever.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 11/02/2008 at 00:51:18