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Nasty winners

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Sometimes it's refreshing to see our players behaving on the pitch but I wish we'd be a bit more nasty at times. They talk about how the crowd at Goodison can influence the ref by shouting for everything but why don't the players? I'd love to see the players get at the ref more. Why didn't someone risk a card by getting right in Wiley's face at Blackburn? The FA have shown they'll drop the charges when their man is in the wrong!

Also, when Hunt was trying to square up to Carsley on Saturday, I noticed Everton players trying to calm him down. Why didn't they wind him up some more and get the little bastard sent off? Maybe it's not the School of Science way but I just wish our players would show a little more arrogance towards the officials and the opposition.
Alan Clarke, Manchester     Posted 11/02/2008 at 20:03:56

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Martin Cutler
1   Posted 12/02/2008 at 07:33:25

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Once a ref has decided his course of action he NEVER changes his mind.....regardless of the call....PK, throw-in, red or yellow card, foul etc.
Yes, one can appeal after the fact but during the game any reaction from nothing to jumping up and down apeshit-like in the ref’s face.........won’t do a darned thing.
So why should anybody risk a card during the game to change the ref’s mind when it simply isn’t going to happen?
I actually admire the Everton players (well, most of them) all the more for the way they react as opposed to what some players get up to.....a part of the game which I think is shameful.
The crowd can do their part for sure and definitely after the game the management should and do appeal and/or complain but the players themselves should carry on exactly as they are.

Erik Dols
2   Posted 12/02/2008 at 07:40:45

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Call me old-fashioned or naïve, but I really hate it when Stevie G or Fabregas or Shrek complain to the ref about every decision the man makes. I’m glad our players are not really into that.
Chris Gallagher
3   Posted 12/02/2008 at 07:43:03

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Whilst I agree with you that I’m proud that Everton aren’t a bunch of whingers who surround the ref at every given opportunity, there is a reason why the likes of Man U still do it.

The reason is not to get the ref to change his mind on a decision, it’s to lull him into being more tolerant, even siding with the whiging team in the next big decision. For example, if a ref doubts himself and thinks ’hmm, well, maybe I WAS a bit harsh there’ then there is a natural tendency to even the score to maintain impartiality.

For the next 50/50 tackle in the box, perhaps the ref will be swayed 51/49 towards the whinging team and give the decision their way.

Anyway, to repeat, I think that such performances are ugly and I’m glad that Everton aren’t succumbing to it.
Andy Mac
4   Posted 12/02/2008 at 08:56:54

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The day Everton start doing all that, is the day I stop paying attention to the Premier league and my beloved club. I hate the ref chasing, they should all be carded.

I don’t like to see Arteta diving, as much as I love his skill and guile, its sometimes embarrassing. Yes, they are all at it but I always had some old fashioned sense of conduct that "my" team won’t. Dated but true. Off to get my pipe and slippers.
James Matthews
5   Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:42:21

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This is a ridiculous article. I’ve seen elsewhere on here recently people stating that we are one of the less hated clubs in the league, we actual garner quite a lot of respect. I think that is due in large part to the conduct of our players, fans and manager. Our players conduct themselves far better than the vast majority of Premier League sides, and I for one hope that never changes. I am proud of the fact that most of our players seem like decent human beings, as well as good footballers - how many clubs can you say that about. I’m not saying they’re saints (I agree with the above poster about Arteta’s diving - it does make me cringe sometimes), and the only argument I can see here in favour of the ’ref-chasing’ is the age-old ’well, everyone else is doing it’. That’s a terrible reason to do it, and I think I’d rather see us not get a fewdecisions (can anyone prove this is actually the case??) than lower ourselves to that level.
Ben Jackson
6   Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:46:52

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I completely agree with Chris, we know the ref isn’t going to change his mind once the decision has been made (99 times out 100 anyway!), but it’s all about putting doubt in his mind for the next decision he makes. I must admit I hate seeing players chase a ref, and I certainly don’t want to see our players go as far as some of the Manu/Chelsea players go, but if they’re gaining an advantage then we should be too. The game moves on and we have to as well.

It isn’t cheating its gamesmanship and we all want to see Everton do as well as they can. Lets be honest, we’d love it if it went on in the derby so it should be the same in any game.
Lee Smith
7   Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:02:48

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Martin Cutler : "Once a ref has decided his course of action he NEVER changes his mind....."

Unless of course he is Mark Clattenburg and Gerrard has a little word in his ear that the foul really should be a red card after all.
Mark McDermott
8   Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:07:38

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Surely this is the sort of behavior we want to see stamped out of the game, not encouraged. Let’s try and bring some sportsmanship and dignity back, not further strip it away. Is this also the attitude we want our kids growing up seeing? I think we are actually coming to a point where we need some decisive action to prevent this practice from spreading even further with too many referees becoming swayed by players. Perhaps the mooted rule where only the Captains being able to speak to the referee would help. Anyway, at present I am happy to see the Everton players not following the example of some other clubs and keeping their integrity.
Dick Fearon
9   Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:54:32

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There must be some benefit in Ref chasing else why do Sky 4 teams practice it to a man.
In the Manchester derby every decision that went against United was met with angry gesticulation or outraged looks. On occasion it was blatant dissent and the usual ref mobbing.

We know to our cost how succesfully the RS do it and Chesea are not far behind them.
The grand masters of applying pressure to match officials are of course Arsenal.
Unlike Moyes, no manager of those teams has admonished their players and I can only conclude that it forms a part of their game plan.
By drawing attention to cerain opponents those managers in pre match media chats actually add to the pressure on refs and sadly it appears to be a succesful gambit.
Remembering what happened to McFadden for using a single word I would not recommend any of our lads to try it on.
Best to wait until we are firmly entrenched in the Sky 4 when anything and everything is permitted.
Paul Johnson
10   Posted 12/02/2008 at 12:14:58

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The line between success and failure is unbelievably tight in the premier league. Quite often matches are decided on a controversial refereeing decision that could have gone either way. I agree with Alan that, in order to gain a competitive edge, we need to start getting nasty. Bollocks to all this nicey nicey stuff, the reason AJ doesn’t get most of his penalties is that he never bloody appeals. Take a look at Gerrard or Ronaldo when they go down, not only do they appeal, the other 10 in the team do too and this without doubt influences the referee. If we are to be serious about joining the top 3 then we need to match them in ALL areas.
David Torley
11   Posted 12/02/2008 at 13:29:02

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Everton are the best club in the world and should therefore lead by example.

Do we really want to be anything like the horrible whingers over the park?
Dave Wilson
12   Posted 12/02/2008 at 13:28:53

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Depends what you want, do you want us known as those awfully nice chaps down at GP who never complain, or do you want referees being as terrified of giving a bad decision against us as they are of giving a bad decision against the 4
Martin Cutlers right, you wont change a decision, but you’ll have a massive influence over the next call if the ref knows all hell will break loose if he fucks up again
Ref chasing is ugly, but it appears the more you do it, the higher you finish
Roy Coyne
13   Posted 13/02/2008 at 00:20:45

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Many years ago Don Revie had the whole Leeds team appeal for every thing, claiming that even if they did not get that decision, it would influence the next. But I would not like to see us going down that road.

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