The Mail Bag
Drop Johnson and Cahill
Comments (47)
During his time at Palace and initially at Everton, Andy Johnson was a success because of his speed and skill. Defenders were faced with two options in dealing with him: a) tackle him and risk conceding a penalty or b) back of for fear of conceding a penalty and allow him enough time and space to score. Thanks to Arsene Wenger's campaign to have him branded a "diver", defenders can now do what they want to AJ without fear of conceding a penalty. For his part, AJ seems to shy away now from contact because he knows no penalties will be given and he will be bruised with no hope of reward if fouled. Consequently he has ceased to be effective.
Cahill during his first year here benefitted greatly from the hard work and unselfishness of Marcus Bent. Bent was in the Graeme Sharp mould of an old fashioned foward who would do all the running and hold up the ball to allow other players to score. Since Bent left, Cahill has had two injury-plagued seasons and it is only now that he has had a decent run of games during which it's obvious that with more selfish strikers he isn't getting a look in. In a nutshell, Cahill can't tackle, pass or dribble so if we don't have someone like Bent creating openings for him then he is completely ineffective.
Every time someone hints at dropping Cahill we hear people on here saying "He could leave us for a bigger club." Frankly I don't believe that is the case. Who exactly could Cahill displace from the staring line up at any Big 3 team? If Cahill were to leave, the best he could hope for is competing with the likes of Sidwell and Silva for a spot on the bench. If he wants more money he may get it at Newcastle or Spurs but would also be joining a weaker team. Therefore we should have nothing to fear by leaving him on the bench for a few months until such a time as we need him to start again.
Having watched Vaughan on Saturday, I would love the opportunity to see him play alongside Yakubu in front of a four-man midfield devoid of Cahill. Vaughan with his running and speed makes up for Yakubu's lack of energy but between them they would be a formidable duo.
Kieran Kinsella, Posted 11/02/2008 at 23:01:08
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Erik Dols
2 Posted 12/02/2008 at 07:32:04
2 Posted 12/02/2008 at 07:32:04
I’m going to be honest: Cahill is a saint to me. I’d never let him leave, he’s brilliant. Even if he doesn’t score he’s scaring the crap to defenses with his late runs. And I think his passing isn’t that terrible. He’s no Arteta or Pienaar, he won’t put the striker one-on-one with the goalie with Zidane-like through passes, but he’s good in short combinations.
Now I feel different about Johnson. I like the lad and think that if he hits a run of form, gets a bit self esteem, he could go on a scoring spree he had at Palace four years ago (or was it three?). But I also think chance is he’ll never get that form back at our club, he won’t get the time to gain that form with the Yak and Vaughan around. So if the price is right, and by that I mean the £15 mil or so West Ham were apparantely ready to pay for him last summer (I would take anything above £10 mil personally), I’d let him go.
I agree with Kieran about Marcus Bent. I always liked him and I thought it was a shame he left. With a part of the Johnson-money and the succes Moyes had in buying young players from the Championship, I’d really like to see him get a Bent-like player (but slightly more talented, of course!). Or he could go out and spend it all (plus some extra money??) on a world class striker and/or midfielder, that would please me as well.
But on the average, Moyes seems pretty loyal to his hard-working players, so I don’t expect them to leave as long as they don’t want it themselves.
Now I feel different about Johnson. I like the lad and think that if he hits a run of form, gets a bit self esteem, he could go on a scoring spree he had at Palace four years ago (or was it three?). But I also think chance is he’ll never get that form back at our club, he won’t get the time to gain that form with the Yak and Vaughan around. So if the price is right, and by that I mean the £15 mil or so West Ham were apparantely ready to pay for him last summer (I would take anything above £10 mil personally), I’d let him go.
I agree with Kieran about Marcus Bent. I always liked him and I thought it was a shame he left. With a part of the Johnson-money and the succes Moyes had in buying young players from the Championship, I’d really like to see him get a Bent-like player (but slightly more talented, of course!). Or he could go out and spend it all (plus some extra money??) on a world class striker and/or midfielder, that would please me as well.
But on the average, Moyes seems pretty loyal to his hard-working players, so I don’t expect them to leave as long as they don’t want it themselves.
mike G
3 Posted 12/02/2008 at 07:47:02
3 Posted 12/02/2008 at 07:47:02
Cahill could break into any team hes a class player with a desire to play for us. Why is it that fans seem to pick a player everymonth and give him shit. What do you want him to do score a hatrick every game?Get real. and as for Johnson what did he get on saturday no service what so ever. So how do you expect him to score.?
Arthur jones
4 Posted 12/02/2008 at 07:37:13
4 Posted 12/02/2008 at 07:37:13
Football is a squad game now and currently David Moes is doing a great job in picking a team each week thats getting results regardless of injuries , ACON , suspensions and loss of form , we’re in 4th place, reached the semi final of a major cup competition , are still in the uefa cup and have at times played some of the best football I’ve seen from an Everton team for 20 years , ( I still watch Ossie’s goal against Larissa on Everton TV when I need cheering up !) . The point I’m trying to make is lets leave team selection to the man who sees the players every day , watches them train and knows their capabilitiesfar better than any of us do , Cahill’s record speaks for itself , just being on the pitch scares the opposition and AJ’s workrate is unmatched and he has to be the most unfairly treated player in the prem . lets trust DM
Steven Mills
5 Posted 12/02/2008 at 08:18:20
5 Posted 12/02/2008 at 08:18:20
Cahill could quite easily sign for Man Utd and do the job that Scholes has been doing all these years!
He came back into the team and scored plenty of goals but they have dried up recently!
You say that he needs an unselfish striker to create openings but how does this explain how he scored goals earlier this season when The Yak was up front?
He came back into the team and scored plenty of goals but they have dried up recently!
You say that he needs an unselfish striker to create openings but how does this explain how he scored goals earlier this season when The Yak was up front?
Mark Perry
6 Posted 12/02/2008 at 08:42:50
6 Posted 12/02/2008 at 08:42:50
Players have dips in form - thats life. Tim and Andy are having a tough time of it now, but they will pull through and get back to form.
With Tim its more tiredness than anything else, I think he looks jaded and the respite of the FA cup may help him. He is a quality player. He has drive, a great engine and has the quality of getting in the box to finnish of chances.
Andy is low on confidence at the moment, he still has the blistering pace, the never say die attitude and the ability to run all day. His low confidence caused by being in and out of the side means he is trying too hard, if he relaxes then he will score, we all saw the miss at the weekend, and to be fair he has missed a few recently. I think playing with Yak in more games will help.
Both will come good, form is tempory class is eternal.
With Tim its more tiredness than anything else, I think he looks jaded and the respite of the FA cup may help him. He is a quality player. He has drive, a great engine and has the quality of getting in the box to finnish of chances.
Andy is low on confidence at the moment, he still has the blistering pace, the never say die attitude and the ability to run all day. His low confidence caused by being in and out of the side means he is trying too hard, if he relaxes then he will score, we all saw the miss at the weekend, and to be fair he has missed a few recently. I think playing with Yak in more games will help.
Both will come good, form is tempory class is eternal.
Erik Dols
7 Posted 12/02/2008 at 08:53:29
7 Posted 12/02/2008 at 08:53:29
Neal,
Of course the comparison Kieran made between Bent and Sharpy is off-target, but to call Bent shit is really really nonsense. He was the lone striker in the largest part of the season we finished 4th. He did excellent that year, played to his full potential. Of course he never was going to be a world beater, but he was very functional in that set-up, especially the first half of the season.
He faded away after that and we did good business with selling him for apparantely £3 Mil (that was almost half a Beattie in that time, or more than we paid for Arteta).
With Kieran comparing Bent to Sharp he was far too good for the lad, but with you calling him shit full stop you’re even more off target than Kieran IMHO. Bent played up to his potential and was really great for us in a time we desperately needed results.
Of course the comparison Kieran made between Bent and Sharpy is off-target, but to call Bent shit is really really nonsense. He was the lone striker in the largest part of the season we finished 4th. He did excellent that year, played to his full potential. Of course he never was going to be a world beater, but he was very functional in that set-up, especially the first half of the season.
He faded away after that and we did good business with selling him for apparantely £3 Mil (that was almost half a Beattie in that time, or more than we paid for Arteta).
With Kieran comparing Bent to Sharp he was far too good for the lad, but with you calling him shit full stop you’re even more off target than Kieran IMHO. Bent played up to his potential and was really great for us in a time we desperately needed results.
Alex Taylor
8 Posted 12/02/2008 at 08:47:31
8 Posted 12/02/2008 at 08:47:31
I have no doubt he’ll score again when Yak is back in the team and Piennar is firing in decent early crosses for him to get on to.
As for AJ, I think it’s a question of service and the style we play. 10m+ would be a good price I feel.
As for AJ, I think it’s a question of service and the style we play. 10m+ would be a good price I feel.
Paul Gladwell
9 Posted 12/02/2008 at 08:50:59
9 Posted 12/02/2008 at 08:50:59
The reason AJ is having a tough time is simply due to the type of football we play.
Against Blackburn I thought he played superb and this was because we played football on the floor,on saturday we played route one shite with Tim Howard time and time again hoofing the ball up to our tiny striker.
After City played us Eriksson slaughtered his players and keeper for this and Moyes should take a leaf out of his book and do the same, we can play some nice football when we keep it down and thats when we see Aj at his most dangerous.
Against Blackburn I thought he played superb and this was because we played football on the floor,on saturday we played route one shite with Tim Howard time and time again hoofing the ball up to our tiny striker.
After City played us Eriksson slaughtered his players and keeper for this and Moyes should take a leaf out of his book and do the same, we can play some nice football when we keep it down and thats when we see Aj at his most dangerous.
Connor Rohrer
10 Posted 12/02/2008 at 08:53:28
10 Posted 12/02/2008 at 08:53:28
Drop Johnson yes but Cahill no. Johnson is a useful player to have but we now have in my opinion two better and more effective forwards. Yakubu has proven he is streets ahead of Johnson in terms of goalscoring and all round performance whereas Vaughan when alongside Johnson late last season looked the more accomplished and deadly striker despite his tender years. Next season if Yak gets his act together which I expect he will and Vaughan gets a full pre-season under his belt then I’d expect both to be ahead of Johnson.
Cahill is a different matter. He’s proven himself to be a key asset to this club. His goalscoring record is as good as a striker. 9 goals in 20 starts and we look a more solid team when he is playing. Even when he’s not playing well the team still seems to do better with him than without him.
I disagree that Cahill wouldn’t get into other clubs above us. If anything he be alot better than he is now. He’s proven time and time again for Everton that he is one of the better goalscoring midfielders in the Premier League. 36 goals in 114 games proves this. In a more attacking system where he would have to do less in terms of defending I could see him doing very well. Especially at a club like Chelsea where they play a 4-3-3 formation or a 4-5-1 Cahill would be able to do what he does for us in a better team. Goals win games and Cahill does that better than most attacking midfielders. He’s not a great player technically but not every good player is very skillful with an excellent touch. Has has some very good attributes that would help most teams.
For me the best option at this moment in time is Yakubu with Cahill floating behind him. Its proven it works in the past and if it doesn’t we can always bring Vaughany in and go 4-4-2.
Cahill is a different matter. He’s proven himself to be a key asset to this club. His goalscoring record is as good as a striker. 9 goals in 20 starts and we look a more solid team when he is playing. Even when he’s not playing well the team still seems to do better with him than without him.
I disagree that Cahill wouldn’t get into other clubs above us. If anything he be alot better than he is now. He’s proven time and time again for Everton that he is one of the better goalscoring midfielders in the Premier League. 36 goals in 114 games proves this. In a more attacking system where he would have to do less in terms of defending I could see him doing very well. Especially at a club like Chelsea where they play a 4-3-3 formation or a 4-5-1 Cahill would be able to do what he does for us in a better team. Goals win games and Cahill does that better than most attacking midfielders. He’s not a great player technically but not every good player is very skillful with an excellent touch. Has has some very good attributes that would help most teams.
For me the best option at this moment in time is Yakubu with Cahill floating behind him. Its proven it works in the past and if it doesn’t we can always bring Vaughany in and go 4-4-2.
Mark Murphy
11 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:02:19
11 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:02:19
I agree about Johnson. With the refs attitudes to him he?s a;most a liability as anyone else on the end of the fouls he has suffered would have got a more sympathetic view from the ref.
However, I think your dissing of Cahill will come right back and bite you on the arse!
He?s a class act and will get 5+ more goals this season. Including one at Analfield!
However, I think your dissing of Cahill will come right back and bite you on the arse!
He?s a class act and will get 5+ more goals this season. Including one at Analfield!
Tony Part
12 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:10:50
12 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:10:50
Heres my take on AJ and Cahill.. Number one I agree with the fact that AJ is having a tough season most notably because only since the start of December has he come back and not had a troublesome ankle..He started the season and played the first two months carrying an injury which should have been dealt with during the summer but he left after the Newcastle game on October 7 to get the operation done..Since then he has had a decent goals record,he has scored six goals and should be seven given his perfect Blackburn goal last week.. The simple fact is he is never going to be the same type of striker as Yakubu and his team mates know this thats why when AJ plays up front alone he spends alot of time chasing balls into the corners,he doesnt ask for that type of service ,the big fault is with the players giving those balls to chase,they wont do it when Yak plays simple because they know he wont go chasing them and thats why Yakubu scores more goals..I like Johnson..I think since he has been with us his goals record has been decent and given better luck with unjuries and lets not forget refferees he would have had more goals..Granted he should have scored on Saturday but his confidence is low but at least he was there to round the keeper..For me we cannot leave out a striker with the pace of AJ,when for years we had cried out for exactly that watching Beattie and a washed up Ferguson and Campbell ambling around. At 8.6 million he was still a snip in todays mad market..Now on to Cahill..Yes he is no Arteta or Pienaar and he is not greatly skillfull but come on I urge these people to once again get their record books out and look at this mans goal tally for the end of each season and then think back to the days of Linderoth,Pembridge,Gemmill,even Gravesen and see they all finished up with a total tally of about six goals between them..The problem is with some people is you are never allowed to have a bit of a dip in form..Cahill gives you goals and I can be certain that between now and the end of the season he will hit the net at least five more times..We have a good squad that I hope will get even better over the summer so just relax.
Connor Rohrer
13 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:06:33
13 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:06:33
I thinks its bollocks about AJ and our style of play. How exactly are we supposed to play for him? Give it to his feet? No because he has a poor touch, he’s poo with his back to goal and most of our attacks break down when we do this. Give him through balls? No because he never actually plays off the last defender. He’s either too wide or he comes deep but you never actually seeing play off the last defender. Whenever a pass is played through whether its a good pass or a bad pass you’ll always notice that AJ is behind the defender chasing. He’s never actually on the shoulder and first to the ball which annoys me considering thats supposed to be his strength.
The fact of the matter is we hit the channels when Johnson plays because thats what he is good at doing. Playing a wider role, running the channels and working hard.
I’ve seen us play well and AJ still hasn’t produced. The Blackburn game springs to mind last season. We won 1-0 and AJ actually scored but his all round performance was poor. We played a very creative midfield which included Arteta, Fernandes on his debut and Van der Meyde aswell as Cahill floating off Johnson. We played some excellent stuff that day yet Samba still dominated Johnson and when Johnson had the chances which was atleast three or four clear cut he fluffed them.
I think people just make excuses up for the lad. Yakubu and Vaughan revel in our system and Anichebe doesn’t do half bad yet Johnson continues to flatter to deceive. I haven’t been impressed since his purple patch earlier last season personally. Most of his goals have either been from defenders mistakes or deflected in by defenders. He optimizes the Everton of old. Hard working but with little skill to show.
Decent player to have in the squad but not the long term answer and there are better options already at the club.
The fact of the matter is we hit the channels when Johnson plays because thats what he is good at doing. Playing a wider role, running the channels and working hard.
I’ve seen us play well and AJ still hasn’t produced. The Blackburn game springs to mind last season. We won 1-0 and AJ actually scored but his all round performance was poor. We played a very creative midfield which included Arteta, Fernandes on his debut and Van der Meyde aswell as Cahill floating off Johnson. We played some excellent stuff that day yet Samba still dominated Johnson and when Johnson had the chances which was atleast three or four clear cut he fluffed them.
I think people just make excuses up for the lad. Yakubu and Vaughan revel in our system and Anichebe doesn’t do half bad yet Johnson continues to flatter to deceive. I haven’t been impressed since his purple patch earlier last season personally. Most of his goals have either been from defenders mistakes or deflected in by defenders. He optimizes the Everton of old. Hard working but with little skill to show.
Decent player to have in the squad but not the long term answer and there are better options already at the club.
Simon Watts
14 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:17:35
14 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:17:35
I really cant believe what I hear sometimes. For a midfielder Cahill scores on average once every 3 games which is good, and most strikers dont get that ratio. He has not scored for a few games and people on his back already. He is probably the best at arriving late in the box and getting goals. Why is he even considered. He is a great person, player and loves Everton. He is not some mercinary who will move at the slightest opportunity, and is good for the team spirit. He was also named as one of the contenders for the European footballer of the year. There were 49 others but still some achievement.
John Scully
15 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:30:36
15 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:30:36
Marcus Bent in the same mould as Graeme Sharp????? hang your head in shame!
Paul Lenehan
16 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:32:21
16 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:32:21
We have a squad now which allows us to make changes when Moyes feels they are necessary. If he drops Tiny to the bench I don’t think to much should be read into it. I would see it as giving him a rest and allowing him the space to find his form again.
John Jones
17 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:43:35
17 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:43:35
er...Cahill’s scored 6 league goals in 14 league games this season....not a bad return really?
John Jones
18 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:44:27
18 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:44:27
Oh...an I agree on Johnson....he looks scared to shoot, when he does shoot his shot is weak, and gets knocked off the ball by defenders far too easily,
Nelly Blythe
19 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:28:39
19 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:28:39
For all those blaming our style of play on Johnson’s recent form here’s a thought.....In the LAST two home matches he’s been presented with the type of chance that you say he thrive’s on, you know ball played into his feet facing the goal etc...here’s the outcome
Chance 1 v Spurs....only goalie to beat - hit ball straight at goalie...MISSED !!
Chance 2 v Reading.....played in , goes around goalie, only defender on line to beat, hits ball into side netting....MISSED !!
And that’s just two examples we all know there are others.
Like it or not AJ is NOT a great finisher and is unlikely to score lots of goals whatever style we play. Let’s not forget alot of his goals at Palace came from penalties and NOT from open play. I don’t like to knock the lad as he IS full of running and works tirelessly for the cause but fact is he is NOT a natural goalscorer.
Referring to the chances outlined how many of us were quitely saying to ourselves if that had been The Yak it was a goal....I bet I’m not the only one !!
Chance 1 v Spurs....only goalie to beat - hit ball straight at goalie...MISSED !!
Chance 2 v Reading.....played in , goes around goalie, only defender on line to beat, hits ball into side netting....MISSED !!
And that’s just two examples we all know there are others.
Like it or not AJ is NOT a great finisher and is unlikely to score lots of goals whatever style we play. Let’s not forget alot of his goals at Palace came from penalties and NOT from open play. I don’t like to knock the lad as he IS full of running and works tirelessly for the cause but fact is he is NOT a natural goalscorer.
Referring to the chances outlined how many of us were quitely saying to ourselves if that had been The Yak it was a goal....I bet I’m not the only one !!
Tony Part
20 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:55:50
20 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:55:50
I dont really see apart from Yakubu where the so-called better options at the club already are?. I still dont think Vaughan or Anichebe are the finsihed article..I can understand why people want Vaughany in straight away but at the moment he cannot be called the better option as he has not played enough games..He is full blooded but is he a goalscorer?. Perhaps he will be and if that is soon to be he case then Moyes will play him and leave him in but thats not yet happened..As for Anichebe I think its plain for all to see at the current moment he is a better last 20 minutes sub than a starter as after an hour he tends to look absoloutly knackered and packs in running and he is not there yet either..AJ scored 21 league goals at Palace..Not a goalscorer?? I know people will say most where penalties, actually 8 of which were pens..But does that make a striker not a good goalscorer?. So I guess Van Nistlerooy and Shearer were not either then?.
Andy Dutton
21 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:50:42
21 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:50:42
While i agree with the majority of comments already mentioned regarding both players there are a few points i disagree with:1) "Cahill could quite easily sign for Man Utd and do the job that Scholes has been doing all these years!" comment by Steven Mills - Lets be honest Tim Cahill is no where near as good a player as Paul Scholes. The only similarity is that they are both crap at tackling, howver Cahill does not have anywhere near the craft and vision Scholes has in order to unlock defenses, plus Scholes has to be one of the finest strikers of a ball the Premier League has ever seen.
2) Andy Johnson is a very similar player to Marcus Bent in that they are both not the greatest finishers around but will give 110% work rate and effort for the team.
Arthur Jones has made the best point so far. Whilst both players, NO, as with ALL players they have pros and cons and as a football club we rely on our manager to select the best eleven for each and every game. Yes, not all decision are right and some may back fire but generally over the last few seasons i believe DM has got the majority of team selections correct for the teams we play against!!
Let’s stop getting on the back of players for their flaws and start supporting the TEAM and the players that are selected to do their job when selected!!!!
In DM we trust!!!!!!
2) Andy Johnson is a very similar player to Marcus Bent in that they are both not the greatest finishers around but will give 110% work rate and effort for the team.
Arthur Jones has made the best point so far. Whilst both players, NO, as with ALL players they have pros and cons and as a football club we rely on our manager to select the best eleven for each and every game. Yes, not all decision are right and some may back fire but generally over the last few seasons i believe DM has got the majority of team selections correct for the teams we play against!!
Let’s stop getting on the back of players for their flaws and start supporting the TEAM and the players that are selected to do their job when selected!!!!
In DM we trust!!!!!!
Karl Masters
22 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:01:59
22 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:01:59
Jesus, you don’t know much about the word, ’Supporter’ do you, Kieran?
Stop playing Football Manager and get off their backs. Moyes decides who plays and in waht formation. Getting to the next level means we have a squad that will give us options for different situations and opponents. Selling either of these would deprive us of 2 very powerful options. Does Wenger always pick the same eleven, or Ferguson, or Grant?
You won’t find 2 more committed players to our cause. I have a Chelsea supporter friend who is always raving about Cahill and how he would walk into their team.
I just hope our players don’t actually read this drivel!
Stop playing Football Manager and get off their backs. Moyes decides who plays and in waht formation. Getting to the next level means we have a squad that will give us options for different situations and opponents. Selling either of these would deprive us of 2 very powerful options. Does Wenger always pick the same eleven, or Ferguson, or Grant?
You won’t find 2 more committed players to our cause. I have a Chelsea supporter friend who is always raving about Cahill and how he would walk into their team.
I just hope our players don’t actually read this drivel!
Choe Lee
23 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:59:51
23 Posted 12/02/2008 at 09:59:51
If Andy Johnson or Tim Cahill is playing for any of the teams above us with less worry about defensive duties, they will be much more effective with much better goal ratios.
We should be thankful they are forgoing their personal agendas to work for the team and the squad.
AJ is a great finisher, the past few seasons have proved it. He can’t become poor suddenly. Save your comments on the team performance because that is what David Moyes has set the team out to achieve every game...that is to perform and be effective collectively.
If AJ starts "doing a Defoe", he might score a few more but he’ll probably get criticised for "not doing enough" or his "overall contribution is limited". More importantly, we might not get the results we are getting.
Just be thankful we’re winning despite not playing well...
We should be thankful they are forgoing their personal agendas to work for the team and the squad.
AJ is a great finisher, the past few seasons have proved it. He can’t become poor suddenly. Save your comments on the team performance because that is what David Moyes has set the team out to achieve every game...that is to perform and be effective collectively.
If AJ starts "doing a Defoe", he might score a few more but he’ll probably get criticised for "not doing enough" or his "overall contribution is limited". More importantly, we might not get the results we are getting.
Just be thankful we’re winning despite not playing well...
Michael Tracey
24 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:22:46
24 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:22:46
fuck its Cahills month to be singled out! Gee and Arteta has been setting the fucken world on fire as well! Andy Johnson well I agree he missed another easy scoring chances again and really should not be starting! He is effective when the backs are tired so he should be our super sub. ! When Yakubu is back and we are playing our like it or not (4-5-1) best formation then Cahill will score! I am even willing to bet that he will score midweek against Brann. Cahill can pass probably not in the Gerrard mould but his enthuisiasm gets the whole team buzzing! Also as he is a constant threat he always has defenders chasing him so he brings others into play!
Harj Badial
25 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:30:21
25 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:30:21
Keiran - get off the largers mate. 1 Cahill is pure quality, just because he has a slight lean spell dont mean he is a bad player, as for AJ i agree he should be backup to the Yak - who is a better finisher. Cahill is better then Scholes, I would have him in my team ahead of the likes of Ballack, Shevchencko, Saha, Kalou, Kuyt, Veronin, Crouch - all apparantly big team players??? Cahill is better then all of the above. ITS CRUNCH TIME, PART OF THE SEASON WHERE WE ALL GET TOGETHER AND BACK THE TEAM - these issues can be resolved in pre season. just because he has slightly gone off the boil dont mean we barrack them. COYB.
Connor Rohrer
26 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:28:01
26 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:28:01
Tony Part, there’s no doubting James Vaughan isn’t the finished article but in my opinion he is a better option than Johnson both in terms of getting goals and putting in good performances. The fact of the matter is his goals to game ratio is excellent. In his career so far he’s had 8 full starts and scored 7 goals. Who knows if he could carry that on but its always worth trying and looking at his record he deserves his chance.
I don’t really care how many goals AJ scored at Palace. All I care about are his performances and goals for Everton and he just hasn’t done it on a consistent basis. If you look right through AJ’s career then most of his goals where scored at Championship level. In terms of his 21 goal a season record for Palace 10 where penalties and 11 where from open play. I’m not holding anything against his record in that season because in my view goals are goals but its plain for every Evertonian to see that Johnson is not a natural goalscorer.
Chris Keightly, people like you really do bore me. Saying things like "lay off" and "he’s Everton through and through" are pointless. This is a discussion about Everton players and fans are aloud to say whatever they want. If AJ’s playing well then he’ll get praised if he’s playing poorly the people will have a go at him. If it was someone like Tony Hibbert everyone would slate him so I don’t see why Johnson should be any different.
"good honest pro lay off the lad and appreciate he gives his all unlike cahill who’s a shadow of the player he was ands not fit to lace AJ’S boots"
Is this really true. Cahill may be going through a rough patch but no one can fault his work ethic and judging by this season he is a much more important player to us than Johnson.
I don’t really care how many goals AJ scored at Palace. All I care about are his performances and goals for Everton and he just hasn’t done it on a consistent basis. If you look right through AJ’s career then most of his goals where scored at Championship level. In terms of his 21 goal a season record for Palace 10 where penalties and 11 where from open play. I’m not holding anything against his record in that season because in my view goals are goals but its plain for every Evertonian to see that Johnson is not a natural goalscorer.
Chris Keightly, people like you really do bore me. Saying things like "lay off" and "he’s Everton through and through" are pointless. This is a discussion about Everton players and fans are aloud to say whatever they want. If AJ’s playing well then he’ll get praised if he’s playing poorly the people will have a go at him. If it was someone like Tony Hibbert everyone would slate him so I don’t see why Johnson should be any different.
"good honest pro lay off the lad and appreciate he gives his all unlike cahill who’s a shadow of the player he was ands not fit to lace AJ’S boots"
Is this really true. Cahill may be going through a rough patch but no one can fault his work ethic and judging by this season he is a much more important player to us than Johnson.
Chris Keightley
27 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:47:30
27 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:47:30
As you quite rightly mentioned connor im entitled to my opinion, and im well within reason to defend a player as well, and as for boring, read your last thread sounds as though you feel you need to defend cahill, as for more important than johnson not sure, they all play for everton dont they !!
Steve Ryan
28 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:50:27
28 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:50:27
I’ve said it before on many occassions but Cahill never hides against the big boys unlike the vastly overrated and very inconsistent Arteta who, because of his fancy footwork, appears to be beyond reproach.
Kieran Kinsella
29 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:03:39
29 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:03:39
I didn’t say we should drop Cahill forever.
Since everyone seems to be in agreement that he is out of form right now why should he stay in the side for now ? That is my point. As for Sharp and Bent well I knew that would get taken the wrong way but my point was that the two did more to create openings for others than score themselves. The year we finished 4th had a lot to do with Bents form no doubt about that.
Since everyone seems to be in agreement that he is out of form right now why should he stay in the side for now ? That is my point. As for Sharp and Bent well I knew that would get taken the wrong way but my point was that the two did more to create openings for others than score themselves. The year we finished 4th had a lot to do with Bents form no doubt about that.
Rob Jones
30 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:51:53
30 Posted 12/02/2008 at 10:51:53
Harj mate get a grip Kalou and Ballack would walk into Cahills position when on form, I know that and I’ve always been a huge fan of Tiny Tim
Connor Rohrer
31 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:14:22
31 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:14:22
Chris Keightley, what I’m trying to say is there’s no point in saying things like "good honest pro lay off the lad" and "he?s Everton through and through" because it contributes nothing to the thread. Your basically saying don’t make comments on his performance because he works hard and he’s a good pro. Whats the point in having Toffeeweb if you can’t comment on your own players performance without people saying "lay off" and "support the lads".
How I see it is your not defending AJ’s performances on the pitch which is what the thread is about your basically saying we shouldn’t say he’s playing shit because he’s a good Evertonian.
Am I really defending Cahill? All I’m saying is he’s a more important player to Everton than Johnson and he is a better player to have in the starting line up which judging by this season and last season when he wasn’t injured is true. Cahill has scored 9 goals in 20 starts whereas Johnson has scored 6 goals in 19 starts this season so its true. We win more games with Cahill in the team aswell which again proves my point.
How I see it is your not defending AJ’s performances on the pitch which is what the thread is about your basically saying we shouldn’t say he’s playing shit because he’s a good Evertonian.
Am I really defending Cahill? All I’m saying is he’s a more important player to Everton than Johnson and he is a better player to have in the starting line up which judging by this season and last season when he wasn’t injured is true. Cahill has scored 9 goals in 20 starts whereas Johnson has scored 6 goals in 19 starts this season so its true. We win more games with Cahill in the team aswell which again proves my point.
Dick Fearon
32 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:38:22
32 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:38:22
Drop Cahill ??? Marcus Bent in the same mould as Graham Sharpe FFS!!!
The mind Boggles.
The mind Boggles.
Connor Rohrer
33 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:34:47
33 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:34:47
Steve Ryan, I think your being a bit unfair on Arteta there. He hasn’t been his usual self this season and he hasn’t hit the standards we know he is capable of but saying he is "vastly overrated and very inconsistent" is a bit unfair. He’s still our best player, he’s created the second most goals for us this season and when he doesn’t play where the shadow of the team we are with him in the side.
Cahill’s contribution to games against the big teams are different to Arteta’s. Cahill can score a goal which hides the fact that he’s been average for 90 minutes like against Chelsea away or Arsenal at home. Arteta has to do alot more. We all know he’s not going to score the goals and his position doesn’t really let him do that but he is the player who has to make us play football, he has to create and he takes alot of the set pieces. He has to do the work for Cahill to actually score the goals and pick up the pieces.
I think Arteta’s performances against the big four have improved this season. He’s played against Liverpool, Chelsea, Man utd and Arsenal and in four of those games I’d say he was average in two and good in two. He played well against Arsenal before he was sent off and Chelsea in the semi final which is an improvement as in the past has was invisible in every game against the "top four".
Cahill’s contribution to games against the big teams are different to Arteta’s. Cahill can score a goal which hides the fact that he’s been average for 90 minutes like against Chelsea away or Arsenal at home. Arteta has to do alot more. We all know he’s not going to score the goals and his position doesn’t really let him do that but he is the player who has to make us play football, he has to create and he takes alot of the set pieces. He has to do the work for Cahill to actually score the goals and pick up the pieces.
I think Arteta’s performances against the big four have improved this season. He’s played against Liverpool, Chelsea, Man utd and Arsenal and in four of those games I’d say he was average in two and good in two. He played well against Arsenal before he was sent off and Chelsea in the semi final which is an improvement as in the past has was invisible in every game against the "top four".
Harj Badial
34 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:42:36
34 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:42:36
Rob - Think again....Cahill will always get more goals then Kalou, as for Ballack - great player that he is but always injured - I would always pick Cahill ahead of these two....not even a doubt about it. Kalou is not proven yet - his goals to games ratio is much lower then Cahill?s. Maybe in the Future Kalou will turn it on.
Chris Keightley
35 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:48:51
35 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:48:51
Connor im defending johnson because i think he does contribute to the team,great pace pulls defenders out of position plays for 90 mins. yes hes in a rut i agree, but there seems to be the consensus that if he is mis firing drop him, best coming on as a sub, championship player at best etc etc, that bores me, moyes rates him highly and he was capped by england, shit sub?? championship player ?? all the contributors on this thread must know your all prem managers !!!
Connor Rohrer
36 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:54:00
36 Posted 12/02/2008 at 11:54:00
You can’t really compare Kalou to Cahill as they are different kinds of players. Kalou is a winger/striker whereas Cahill is a attacking central midfielder.
Ballack and Cahill are comparable as they both play similar roles. Ballack (when Lampard isn’t playing) plays the most attacking midfielder of a 4-3-3 or a 4-5-1 whereas Cahill plays our most advanced midfielder breaking from midfield and supporting Yakubu.
I’d go for Cahill myself until Ballack proves him self on a consistent basis in the English League something Cahill has done for four seasons now. There’s no doubting that in the German League Ballack was a star and at international level he is excellent but he hasn’t proved himself in supposedly the best league in the world.
Ballack and Cahill are comparable as they both play similar roles. Ballack (when Lampard isn’t playing) plays the most attacking midfielder of a 4-3-3 or a 4-5-1 whereas Cahill plays our most advanced midfielder breaking from midfield and supporting Yakubu.
I’d go for Cahill myself until Ballack proves him self on a consistent basis in the English League something Cahill has done for four seasons now. There’s no doubting that in the German League Ballack was a star and at international level he is excellent but he hasn’t proved himself in supposedly the best league in the world.
Mick Dempsey
37 Posted 12/02/2008 at 12:16:06
37 Posted 12/02/2008 at 12:16:06
I am not one to slag other peoples post off, but I draw the line when someone compares Bent to Sharp, In my opinion and the opinions of most Blues fans who actually seen him play week in and week out is one of the best No. 9s to pull the Royal Blue Jersey on, Bent for me is a flash in the pan that is why he is playing for a team who are on their way down. And this thing about Johnson and Cahill, Andrew Johnson will struggle playing the lone striker, when we hoof balls up with his back to goal, Cahill will come back to form once the Yak plays, the yak holds the ball up and offers himself deep which allows our midfield to play their natural game. Look the last couple of game the midfield have been awful, the defense have been superb and johnson has been asked to do much. AJ will be on the bench anyway in Norway and Cahill will start. 4-4-1-1 will be the formation with the bYak leading the line
Paul Gladwell
38 Posted 12/02/2008 at 12:17:38
38 Posted 12/02/2008 at 12:17:38
You are right about the couple of misses aj has made and he certainly is not in the league of yakubu type goalscorers, but look at that game again on saturday , on at least 40 occasions our keeper hoofed the ball high up to Aj and the only time he bowled it out he put Carsley under pressure.The week before we played football on the deck and he had a great game and scored with a great goal he was robbed of,he may not be top draw but our route one style certainly is not helping his cause.
Mark Pendleton
39 Posted 12/02/2008 at 13:28:08
39 Posted 12/02/2008 at 13:28:08
Was a great goal that AJ "scored" against Blackburn that was disallowed. Two recent penalties disallowed (the tackle against Spurs one of those "given anywhere else on the field" decisions, the Blackburn takle, well, how much more blatant do you need?). A well taken goal versus Wigan. What does the guy need to do. He’s still chasing lost causes when we’re playing poorly! Pienaar back in, Ossie & Manny fit and then we’ll see the best out of the likes of AJ and Tim. Some very short memories some people.
Terry Maddock
40 Posted 12/02/2008 at 12:16:44
40 Posted 12/02/2008 at 12:16:44
Well lads, Im over the moon....
We apparently have 4 or 5 players not playing to the best of there ability, one who gets to fly round the world between games, another only now really getting match fit after playing on with an ankle injury..our "flair2 player arteta being marked out of games and peanuts all strapped up while the Yak goes on an extended holiday..!!!!!!!!!!!!
All of this and we are 3 points clear in 4th and have the small matter of a UEFA cup game on Wednesday...
No " YO, YO this season...cementing our expectations now as European regulars...and champions league hopefuls...FFS the media have even started talking about the big 3.. they have already dropped the shite fom there "love list"...
So if..maybe.., perhaps.. AJ starts scoring, Tiny Tim gets a bit of rest, Manny gets fit..The Yak is forgiven...well who knows what might happen...
A win at home against Chelsea, a point away at Analfield and The Arse.....3rd place anybody...the shite finish 6th.!
Spurs win the Carling cup...Man utd win the FA cup..! The shite cant pay the interest or the wages or the silly transfer fees.....THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT.....THE FUTURE IS BLUE..
We apparently have 4 or 5 players not playing to the best of there ability, one who gets to fly round the world between games, another only now really getting match fit after playing on with an ankle injury..our "flair2 player arteta being marked out of games and peanuts all strapped up while the Yak goes on an extended holiday..!!!!!!!!!!!!
All of this and we are 3 points clear in 4th and have the small matter of a UEFA cup game on Wednesday...
No " YO, YO this season...cementing our expectations now as European regulars...and champions league hopefuls...FFS the media have even started talking about the big 3.. they have already dropped the shite fom there "love list"...
So if..maybe.., perhaps.. AJ starts scoring, Tiny Tim gets a bit of rest, Manny gets fit..The Yak is forgiven...well who knows what might happen...
A win at home against Chelsea, a point away at Analfield and The Arse.....3rd place anybody...the shite finish 6th.!
Spurs win the Carling cup...Man utd win the FA cup..! The shite cant pay the interest or the wages or the silly transfer fees.....THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT.....THE FUTURE IS BLUE..
Peter Fearon
41 Posted 12/02/2008 at 13:56:58
41 Posted 12/02/2008 at 13:56:58
Dropping Cahill would be an act of suicidal insanity. He?s an opportunist and we need him. Johnson I can see coming off the bench when the opposition has been well softened up and you want to give them something different to think about. Given the dearth of great strikers these days, I would hold on to both of them for dear life. We need more, not fewer, options up front. You want to talk about dropping someone I would think about dropping Manchester United?s Phil Neville. He does still play for them doesn?t he?
Damian Wilde
42 Posted 12/02/2008 at 16:15:53
42 Posted 12/02/2008 at 16:15:53
Fair comment about Johnson. I think he will only get the team 10 goals a season. People talk about Johnson working hard, but a lot of the game that is all he does; run around like a headless chicken. Having said that though, not a bad player and will always get a few goals here and there. Of course, others will start ahead of him
As for Cahill. When he came back, what was it, 9 goals in 11 or something like that? Did you foget that Kieran?? FFS. His recent poor form has conincided with no Yak. Johnson up front on his own, does not work. Yak up front, with Cahill behind (with Carsely, Piernarr, Osman, and Arteta, who can all pass very well) - we had that when we went on our big unbeaten run (with the majority won). Cahill’s been missing Piernarr and the Yak. We need that system back, with back up from the others.
As for Vaughan, I think everyone agrees that he is an exciting talent. I hope he starts on Wednesday against Bran.
As for Cahill. When he came back, what was it, 9 goals in 11 or something like that? Did you foget that Kieran?? FFS. His recent poor form has conincided with no Yak. Johnson up front on his own, does not work. Yak up front, with Cahill behind (with Carsely, Piernarr, Osman, and Arteta, who can all pass very well) - we had that when we went on our big unbeaten run (with the majority won). Cahill’s been missing Piernarr and the Yak. We need that system back, with back up from the others.
As for Vaughan, I think everyone agrees that he is an exciting talent. I hope he starts on Wednesday against Bran.
Barry Cass
43 Posted 12/02/2008 at 16:52:39
43 Posted 12/02/2008 at 16:52:39
Kieran, Cahill is one of our best players if not THE best . He gives his all , tackles , defends and scores goals as well as having a bit of nastiness as well.
I really don’t want to get involved in the 451 formation and his best position because I actually think that with a better partner in midfield (one that can actually run and pass the ball and not back track for 20 yards without making a tackle) then Cahill could quite easily play in a 442 and give us TWO strikers which I prefer.
As for AJ , I’m obviously not alone in thinking that he cannot play as the lone striker. With the Yak and Pienaar, Cahill, Arteta and Fernandes that could form a very potent attacking 6 ! Manny could quite easily play the holding role that he plays for Portugal and allow the other 5 to attack. Manny would not struggle to get about the pitch and can produce a killer pass like all the top midfielders do. This I’m sure would have AJ back to his best and also might give him the chance of having some through balls to run onto instead of long hoofs up field.
To sum up they are both important to our continued development and improve our team dramatically by their involvement.
Kieran finally, I know who I would rather have out of Marcus Bent and AJ !!!
I really don’t want to get involved in the 451 formation and his best position because I actually think that with a better partner in midfield (one that can actually run and pass the ball and not back track for 20 yards without making a tackle) then Cahill could quite easily play in a 442 and give us TWO strikers which I prefer.
As for AJ , I’m obviously not alone in thinking that he cannot play as the lone striker. With the Yak and Pienaar, Cahill, Arteta and Fernandes that could form a very potent attacking 6 ! Manny could quite easily play the holding role that he plays for Portugal and allow the other 5 to attack. Manny would not struggle to get about the pitch and can produce a killer pass like all the top midfielders do. This I’m sure would have AJ back to his best and also might give him the chance of having some through balls to run onto instead of long hoofs up field.
To sum up they are both important to our continued development and improve our team dramatically by their involvement.
Kieran finally, I know who I would rather have out of Marcus Bent and AJ !!!
Brian Waring
44 Posted 12/02/2008 at 17:11:36
44 Posted 12/02/2008 at 17:11:36
I've come to the defence of AJ a few times lately, because I believe it is the way we use him, which is the problem. But, you have to remember, we payed nearly £9m for him. And at the end of the day, that is a lot of money for a player who is just going to run around, and give 100%, when we bought him to score goals. I actually think it would do him the world of good to move on in the summer, to a club that would play to his strength, instead of just twating the ball down the wing, and saying "there you go AJ, get after that"
John Charles
45 Posted 12/02/2008 at 18:33:41
45 Posted 12/02/2008 at 18:33:41
Goals change games... Tim scores goals. plus he sets the tempo for us when he is in the team. We are much better when we are playing high tempo. I think Mark?s posting is ridiculous on the Cahill angle. On the AJ angle, I urge you all to recall the season(s) before AJ when teams ? especially away form home ? would squeeze us right up to the halfway line knowing we had no pace to run in behind them. AJ completely changed the way we play. Marcus, for all his running ?when he had no chance of getting it ? was great for 6 months but lacks real quality.
AJ is a good option. Personally, I'd like to see him being a bit more selfish and not being scared to miss by miles.
AJ is a good option. Personally, I'd like to see him being a bit more selfish and not being scared to miss by miles.
Simon Watts
46 Posted 12/02/2008 at 23:31:03
46 Posted 12/02/2008 at 23:31:03
Tim Howard had a bad game the other week and Lescott made a bad decision last week. I say drop them two. Jagielka as well because he was rubbish at beginning of season. I also say drop Cahill and Arteta because they been not as good in last two weeks. Might as well drop Yak as well for being late. AJ because he missed a couple of chances so I reckon drop him as well. Carsley because he has not scored recently can be dropped. Piennar as well for giving a penalty against MU. Osman can obviously be dropped. We can start off with Hibbert in attack, Van der Meyde in goal.
Richard Williams
47 Posted 13/02/2008 at 12:34:27
47 Posted 13/02/2008 at 12:34:27
Kieran has made a very good point, I think it is the long-term move dropping Cahill and Johnson for better players.
Cahill is not fit to polish Scholes?s boots unfortunately as an all around footballer.
Cahill is not fit to polish Scholes?s boots unfortunately as an all around footballer.
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1 Posted 12/02/2008 at 06:32:50
All of a sudden all of us were saying he is the heartbeat of the side and welcoming him with open arms....
Now that the goals have dried up he’s getting flak again... I think it is too soon to do another 180 and cast him out... His drive is important to the attitude of the whole side.