The Mail Bag
Petition to Remove Kevin Ratcliffe
Comments (97)
I'm 23 so I don't know much about Mr Ratcliffe during his playing days with us, but what has he got against us? I assumed he loved Everton like we all do. He is so negative and he sounds like my Grandad when he watches Everton. No enthusiasm or acceptance of good play, just dig, dig, dig.
I constantly get angered by the negativety and awful analysis of what goes on during these Everton games.
Can we get Andy Gray (screw his contract with Sky!), or Joey Parkinson in the commentary hotseat because I would rather listen to Alan Hansen than Ratcliffe at the moment as he is really getting on my nerves with his backstabbing comments.
The amount of shit we've been through over the years (I've never had reason to celebrate apart from 1995), I would have thought Mr Ratcliffe would be happy and positive in his approach and comments. I would even go as for to say that I prefer that woman on MOTD to commentate!
He is employed to commentate on Everton matches to Deliberately make us fans and himself feel related in the way we should. But his commentary skills are bloody awful along with his bias against Everton!).
Sorry if I'm rabbiting a bit, but I know when somethings not right, and this is one of them.
Please can he either buck up his ideas or allow somebody more with more affection towards Everton to commentate.
Charlie Percival, Posted 14/02/2008 at 13:08:58
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Patty Beesley
1 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:30:35
1 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:30:35
I don?t think he is biased towards Everton but I don?t think he is a very good commentator and he is very negative towards us which is unexpected seeing who he is....and he can?t even pronounce players? names correctly.
Amanda Huddleston
2 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:39:31
2 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:39:31
If he doesnt go can someone please tell him how to Jagielka - he says DJELKA and it is driving me crazy!
Chris Briddon
3 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:33:17
3 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:33:17
A bit harsh Michael, as Kevin Ratcliffe has had a number of critics for his summarising on football matches. He does generally have a fiarly critical persepctive - as opposed to a Joe Royle or someone like that who has a bit of positivity.
I know he was a great player for us, but that doesn’t make him a great commentator as well. (Oh an I remember his playing days, just in case you thought I was too young as well).
The guy just comes across as been fairly dour and negative - even Dave Woods and Colin Murphy(?) the presenter are more positive than he is!
I know he was a great player for us, but that doesn’t make him a great commentator as well. (Oh an I remember his playing days, just in case you thought I was too young as well).
The guy just comes across as been fairly dour and negative - even Dave Woods and Colin Murphy(?) the presenter are more positive than he is!
Nelly Blythe
4 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:37:27
4 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:37:27
Ratters is an Everton legend...always will be but for fuck’s sake can someone tell him that Jags ’s name is JAGIELKA, thats J-A-G-I-E-L-K-A...not fuckin’ DEJELKA as he seems to think...christ it really winds me up !!
Andy Callan
5 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:39:24
5 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:39:24
at least his wasn’t pissed this week.
All pundits are shite - simple fact of life.
Fact is that the Rat was right last night; it was shite. We kept givin’ it way and it was crap.
We won yeah - good. But as for flowing passing football...... Don’t be silly.
The Rat is an Everton legend. Would you rather have Beglin, Hansen, Lawerenson, Gray or someone like that twat Crooks. GIVE ME A BREAK...
All pundits are shite - simple fact of life.
Fact is that the Rat was right last night; it was shite. We kept givin’ it way and it was crap.
We won yeah - good. But as for flowing passing football...... Don’t be silly.
The Rat is an Everton legend. Would you rather have Beglin, Hansen, Lawerenson, Gray or someone like that twat Crooks. GIVE ME A BREAK...
Brendan George
6 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:35:44
6 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:35:44
Kevin Ratcliffe was one of the best defenders in the league in his day, no doubt about that. His standards must be very high because when he played for the Blues, he was part of a great side. Maybe he is unfairly judging Everton in comparison to the great side of the 80’s. It’s almost like listening to my grand dad decrying the youth of today. We didn’t play well yesterday - the conditions were poor and so was some of the passing. Good result! Nice to see Barry Horne on Five yesterday.
Davey Militwitch
7 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:39:41
7 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:39:41
His pronounciation of Phil Yagg-yel-ka makes me piss myself everytime. I think Ratty should be a comedian. Aneechibeee is getting there, but he is welsh.....
Brendan George
8 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:43:13
8 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:43:13
P.S There’s no excuse for the bad pronounciations though. He needs to work on that.
Steven May
9 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:35:43
9 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:35:43
I’m with Patty on this one (and partly with Charlie).
We all resent Hanson and co getting their jobs based on their playing careers (and who they played for) and, frankly, Kevin is worse.
As Patty says, he can barely pronounce the players names, and seems to add little or no value to the overall viewing experience.
I remember him as a player and sadly this belittles those memories.
We all resent Hanson and co getting their jobs based on their playing careers (and who they played for) and, frankly, Kevin is worse.
As Patty says, he can barely pronounce the players names, and seems to add little or no value to the overall viewing experience.
I remember him as a player and sadly this belittles those memories.
Luke Brooks
10 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:41:03
10 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:41:03
Rats is a winner, he lead Everton’s geatest ever side and is probably one of our greatest ever players. If you wonder why he complains or criticises then watch some of the videos from the 80s and compare them to where we are now.
He is one guy that understands what NSNO means and truly wants to see us achieve it. Personally, I think the guy is a hero and if Jags, Joeleen and co can become half the player he was then we’ll have the making of a great side.
He is one guy that understands what NSNO means and truly wants to see us achieve it. Personally, I think the guy is a hero and if Jags, Joeleen and co can become half the player he was then we’ll have the making of a great side.
Brian Bailey
11 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:28:03
11 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:28:03
Michael the Rat?s can’t even pronounce Jagielka’s name never mind commentate and also was no big shakes as a manager. Every time the mighty RS play they always fill the studio with ex RS who wear the red colour specs on.
I agree with the fact that we all have a right to our own views, but anyone with half a brain knows that if Davie Moyes had the spending power of the current top three in the Premier League, we would be challenging for the league every season. If you also watched the so called ?big teams? games last weekend, they just as bad as our game against Reading.
I happen to also think that Ratcliffe is very negative in his comments towards the team and lacks the insight of Barry Horne who watches and commentates nearly every week on the blues. Read also this article which highlights my argument.
http://www.sportingo.com/Football/a6962_How-Moyes-turned-Everton-into
I agree with the fact that we all have a right to our own views, but anyone with half a brain knows that if Davie Moyes had the spending power of the current top three in the Premier League, we would be challenging for the league every season. If you also watched the so called ?big teams? games last weekend, they just as bad as our game against Reading.
I happen to also think that Ratcliffe is very negative in his comments towards the team and lacks the insight of Barry Horne who watches and commentates nearly every week on the blues. Read also this article which highlights my argument.
http://www.sportingo.com/Football/a6962_How-Moyes-turned-Everton-into
Phil Bellis
12 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:46:57
12 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:46:57
I had the pleasure of listening to Kevin on a ’3 Captains’ evening with Labby and Dave Watson and was impresssed with his honesty and intelligence. What shone through was his passion for Everton and his acknowledging how privileged he was to captain and play in the 80s team. He sets the same high standards for EFC as myself and most supporters of that era and before. In that sense, he’s a typical arl-arse, grumpy fan - yes, the team’s improving but we’re not blind to the fact we’ve a long way to go to match the Nil Satis standards of days gone. I think he typifies how frustrated we feel when we know how EFC CAN play. As an ex-pro he can see, and moan about, the shortcomings.
Peter Laing
13 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:57:38
13 Posted 14/02/2008 at 14:57:38
Calm down Michael, I tend to agree with the original post, Ratters was undoubtedly a fine captain and leader of men, however his commentary sums up Channel 5’s coverage in a nut-shell - absolutely piss-poor. Barry Horne and Pat Nevin although based in the studio with that jabbering Irish redshite prick showed a little more positivity, agree with the Jags comments and can someone tell me why Rats call Moyes (Dave Moyes), its either Davey or David for me.
Steve Ferns
14 Posted 14/02/2008 at 15:16:59
14 Posted 14/02/2008 at 15:16:59
I have to say that I think Kevin’s commentary is incisive, well constructed and considered. I think he is the best out of all the commentators out there. I’m amazed anyone has any criticism of him. He is an absolute legend and commentates as if he’s sat in the same room as you and talking directly to you. He knows the majority of his audience are Everton fans and gives a brutally honest assesment. Perhaps some on here would prefer Keith Wyness or Bill Kenwright to commentate, but I would prefer the honesty and incisiveness of a man who has been both a player and a manager.
Keep up the good work Kevin.
By the way, I’m not some cynical old fool as I’m only 29, though I was at Wembley when Kevin picked up his first trophy at the grand old age of 5 (And many times since then).
Keep up the good work Kevin.
By the way, I’m not some cynical old fool as I’m only 29, though I was at Wembley when Kevin picked up his first trophy at the grand old age of 5 (And many times since then).
Remi Murray
15 Posted 14/02/2008 at 15:20:55
15 Posted 14/02/2008 at 15:20:55
Whilst I would still expect any former Everton player to be objective when commentating on an Everton game, Ratcliffe is undoubtedly negative. Listening to him, it’s almost as if he is resenful about something or has a chip on his shoulder. Maybe he wanted a backroom job at Everton or something and was told to piss off.
Ravo Stanley
16 Posted 14/02/2008 at 15:18:27
16 Posted 14/02/2008 at 15:18:27
Sorry Charlie can’t agree. Although he’s a bit dour the Rat tends to call it as he see’s it, which in most cases is right, unlike the likes of Aldridge when he commentates on the RS on City (although the fact he often sounds like a manic depressive by the end of each game is quite comedic).
Ratcliffe was a boyhood blue and you get the sense that he still hasn’t come to terms with our rapid decline after 87’ He’s got high exacting standards and until we win a major honour again I don’t think he’ll be happy.
Ratcliffe was a boyhood blue and you get the sense that he still hasn’t come to terms with our rapid decline after 87’ He’s got high exacting standards and until we win a major honour again I don’t think he’ll be happy.
Mike Adamson
17 Posted 14/02/2008 at 15:27:57
17 Posted 14/02/2008 at 15:27:57
Patronising and rather derogatory there Michael.
You self-defeated your own arguement, don’t take the piss out of somebody else for their youth and percieved naivety, just because they have a different opinion to you.
As for Captain Rat, like most people, I have the utmost respect for him as a man and a player, but again, like most people, im inclined to agree with the main article. There’s nothing wrong with some criticism and a bit of intelligence from a pundit (christ knows theres not enough of it around) but I do think he goes too far. The impression I get is that he doesnt rate this current team (probably still compares it to the great one he played in- fair enough) and so he has the daggers out for them fairly constantly.
Criticism is often inconsistent as well, at different junctures last night, he criticised Yakubu for not being in the box to get on the end of a cross, and then being in the box but not dropping deep and giving the midfield an option. So as much as I respect the bloke, I do tend to think that the current crop (who lets face it, are moving along quite nicely) haven’t really got a chance with him unless they manage to emulate the heady heights of the eighties.
You self-defeated your own arguement, don’t take the piss out of somebody else for their youth and percieved naivety, just because they have a different opinion to you.
As for Captain Rat, like most people, I have the utmost respect for him as a man and a player, but again, like most people, im inclined to agree with the main article. There’s nothing wrong with some criticism and a bit of intelligence from a pundit (christ knows theres not enough of it around) but I do think he goes too far. The impression I get is that he doesnt rate this current team (probably still compares it to the great one he played in- fair enough) and so he has the daggers out for them fairly constantly.
Criticism is often inconsistent as well, at different junctures last night, he criticised Yakubu for not being in the box to get on the end of a cross, and then being in the box but not dropping deep and giving the midfield an option. So as much as I respect the bloke, I do tend to think that the current crop (who lets face it, are moving along quite nicely) haven’t really got a chance with him unless they manage to emulate the heady heights of the eighties.
baloo Johnson
18 Posted 14/02/2008 at 15:57:52
18 Posted 14/02/2008 at 15:57:52
I couldn’t understand why he kept commenting on the lack of atmosphere at the ground.
Sounded perfectly alright to me.
Sounded perfectly alright to me.
steve bailey
19 Posted 14/02/2008 at 15:57:08
19 Posted 14/02/2008 at 15:57:08
you could always have someone as bais as john alldridge is to the rds shite. even if there 3-0 down there still the better side and the score flatters the other team. Rats was honest,we didnt start to play until the last half-hour.
Steve Mink
20 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:07:50
20 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:07:50
Maybe it’s just me, but I find him OK. He was quite perceptive last night and quite rightly criticised some aspects of pay against a very poor Brann side. Balances honest analysis with a demonstrable passion for the club. Prefer that to Barry "EFC can do no wrong" Horne any day.
mike carlisle
21 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:17:01
21 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:17:01
"do we all have to be happy and positive if the"beautiful game" is being mutilated before our eyes?"
Get a grip Michael, You sound like a toon fan.
We have been a great team in our time throughout different periods of Football History and I get the feeling we are on a journey towards being great again, but
I wasnt aware that its Brazil 1970 footy or bust for us.
Get a grip Michael, You sound like a toon fan.
We have been a great team in our time throughout different periods of Football History and I get the feeling we are on a journey towards being great again, but
I wasnt aware that its Brazil 1970 footy or bust for us.
Paul Lenehan
22 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:31:13
22 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:31:13
i don’t know if im missing something but I haven’t picked up on any negativity from the Rat. I think he generally calls it as it is and does a good job. He certainly hasn’t ruined any of my uefa nights.
brown owl
23 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:37:20
23 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:37:20
Agree paul i didnt think he was overly negative. He was just being honest, although i dont think hes a good commintator there were times when i noticed he was going off on one saying irrelavant things but it just added a bit of humour.
james arnold
24 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:43:00
24 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:43:00
I also think he is a crap commentator but more importantly he is extremely negative about Everton. Perhaps they could employ someone who can speak English. I think he was much worse in the early rounds
Charlie Percival
25 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:38:15
25 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:38:15
Mr Kenrick please can you answer me these questions in relation to your response.
1) Do you want to live in the Past like Mr Ratcliffe (and my grandad) because believe it or not (despite my YOUTH) I know times change and its about tomorrow, not yesterday. So do you strongly believe in living in the past?
2) You state he is a professional, fottball/everton is his life. well does this mean that after all Everton have done for him, he should be negative and pessimistic towards him?
3) We are not poor team, you state he gets paid to watch a poor team. Was it not his choice to APPLY for the commentary job for Everton games? Or was he forced into it with hands tied behind his back? Id like to add that thousands of Evertonians DO NOT GET PAID TO WATCH EVERTON, in turn they PAY TO WATCH EVERTON so think about these fans before you protect him by stating he gets paid to watch poor football.
4) Yes theres room for improvement in everything, but theres a difference between constructive criticism and blatant unecessary repetive criticism.
5) Dont discrimnate agaisnt me or my friends due to my age. Being a blue to me is all that matters, no matter what age. You make me out to be stupid in your statement about my friends, believe me im not, and its not for you to judge anyway.
A mutual agreement Michael (if we cant get to the game) is for you to turn the sound up next time Rats is on 5 (plug in 5.1 if you love his digs at everton so much) and ii’ll head for the mute button.
Charlie
1) Do you want to live in the Past like Mr Ratcliffe (and my grandad) because believe it or not (despite my YOUTH) I know times change and its about tomorrow, not yesterday. So do you strongly believe in living in the past?
2) You state he is a professional, fottball/everton is his life. well does this mean that after all Everton have done for him, he should be negative and pessimistic towards him?
3) We are not poor team, you state he gets paid to watch a poor team. Was it not his choice to APPLY for the commentary job for Everton games? Or was he forced into it with hands tied behind his back? Id like to add that thousands of Evertonians DO NOT GET PAID TO WATCH EVERTON, in turn they PAY TO WATCH EVERTON so think about these fans before you protect him by stating he gets paid to watch poor football.
4) Yes theres room for improvement in everything, but theres a difference between constructive criticism and blatant unecessary repetive criticism.
5) Dont discrimnate agaisnt me or my friends due to my age. Being a blue to me is all that matters, no matter what age. You make me out to be stupid in your statement about my friends, believe me im not, and its not for you to judge anyway.
A mutual agreement Michael (if we cant get to the game) is for you to turn the sound up next time Rats is on 5 (plug in 5.1 if you love his digs at everton so much) and ii’ll head for the mute button.
Charlie
Damian Scott
26 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:52:46
26 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:52:46
I haven’t heard that much of Kevin Ratcliffe while commentating, but there is no doubt he is an Everton legend...
I think when players play in a great side like he did and they come back to comment on the current side, which obviously hasn’t been doing as well when he was playing, they do tend to get a bit negative about things..
The perfect example on Irish TV is Ray Houghton on ’The Premiership’ (Irish version of MOTD). He generally slates Liverpool pretty regularly.... "Oh it wasn’t like that in my day"... etc etc..
I think when players play in a great side like he did and they come back to comment on the current side, which obviously hasn’t been doing as well when he was playing, they do tend to get a bit negative about things..
The perfect example on Irish TV is Ray Houghton on ’The Premiership’ (Irish version of MOTD). He generally slates Liverpool pretty regularly.... "Oh it wasn’t like that in my day"... etc etc..
Trudy Boston
27 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:49:45
27 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:49:45
No supporter of this club can deny that ratcliffe was great servant to the club during his time here. after lifting the fa cup as captain in 1984 he seemed to go from strength to strength until age got the better of him and he had to step down and pass the armband to the next in line. kevin was on tv last night as a pundit quite simply because he is a everton legend and it was a surprise to see barry horne along for the ride as well.
Barry may not have reached legendary status as an everton player but he is credited with being the first everton player to score in the premier league (1992) and that goal against the now defunct wimbledon is now part of our history.
As for ratcliffe i have no qualms about his analysis or report of everton matches on tv even if he was never my favourite player during the kendall years. if i had a choice of legend reporters for us on five i would have liked to have seen neville (southall) or peter reid.
Barry may not have reached legendary status as an everton player but he is credited with being the first everton player to score in the premier league (1992) and that goal against the now defunct wimbledon is now part of our history.
As for ratcliffe i have no qualms about his analysis or report of everton matches on tv even if he was never my favourite player during the kendall years. if i had a choice of legend reporters for us on five i would have liked to have seen neville (southall) or peter reid.
Simon Jones
28 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:00:19
28 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:00:19
Hmm... judging by the responses you can’t criticise a legend. It would be nice to see a bit of pro Everton bias though, which Rats was definitely not going to start. After all we have had to put up with years of pro r-s bias, so if we can redress the balance, even if it was only on C5 then I guess its a start. I mean, even Colin Murray, a self-confessed follower of our tragic neighbours had a little pop at Pat Nevin and Barry Horne. Btw, did anyone else struggle to work out which of them had played most for us??
Ben Howard
29 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:54:59
29 Posted 14/02/2008 at 16:54:59
I agree that Rats can be a bit on the negative side and his pronunciation of certain player’s names can be infuriating but he was very complimentary of Jags and Yobo last night. Whilst we’re moaning about the channel 5 commentary team why can’t we point the finger at Colin ’Red Shite’ Murray. His attempts at humour, normally at our expense, are cringeworthy to say the least.
Brian Waring
30 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:13:25
30 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:13:25
Don’t you guy’s think that he is just telling it as he saw it? Overall, the performance (apart from the result ) was actually quite poor.For me, he had it spot on.Maybe you people need to take the blinkers off sometimes.
Ed Fitzgerald
31 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:05:52
31 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:05:52
Michael
I normally agree with you on most things but on this one I would have to side with the young man (as Brian Clough would have called him). Ratcliffe is a pretty poor co-commentator and was pretty negative last night. At the end of the day it was still a 2-0 win away in Europe?
On a separate issue yes Ratcliffe was a great defender after he moved from left back, I genuinely think Lescott is a better player and is more influential player than rats was. I actually think Lescott is the best defender I have ever seen at Everton.
I did see Brian Labone but I was only as Primary school. Any other ancient Blues got any opinions
I normally agree with you on most things but on this one I would have to side with the young man (as Brian Clough would have called him). Ratcliffe is a pretty poor co-commentator and was pretty negative last night. At the end of the day it was still a 2-0 win away in Europe?
On a separate issue yes Ratcliffe was a great defender after he moved from left back, I genuinely think Lescott is a better player and is more influential player than rats was. I actually think Lescott is the best defender I have ever seen at Everton.
I did see Brian Labone but I was only as Primary school. Any other ancient Blues got any opinions
David OBrien
32 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:19:31
32 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:19:31
Get a Grip
Stephen Maclean
33 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:13:17
33 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:13:17
Kevin Ratcliffe is the only pundit/commentator around who calls David Moyes "Dave Moyes"
I’m not sure why but this tickles me everytime he says it...
Rats is a legend at Goodison though so i can’t slag the guy off..
I’m not sure why but this tickles me everytime he says it...
Rats is a legend at Goodison though so i can’t slag the guy off..
Joe Wightman
34 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:20:30
34 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:20:30
The whole Jag-ee-elka/ Ja-jelka thing would be more excusable if the commentator sat next to him kept getting it wrong as well. But he doesn?t. So why doesn?t Ratcliffe listen to his colleague and think "oh shit, I?ve been getting that guy?s name wrong all this time...."?
Lee Aitch
35 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:21:33
35 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:21:33
Not only can he not pronounce Jagielka and Anichebe, do you remember his take on Metalist Kharkiv?
It always came out as Metalarsis Karkov! Couldn’t help thinking he’d learned about the now infamous metatarsal bone and was getting a bit confused. Maybe I’m wrong, perhaps he had some insight into Ukrainian pronounciation...
It always came out as Metalarsis Karkov! Couldn’t help thinking he’d learned about the now infamous metatarsal bone and was getting a bit confused. Maybe I’m wrong, perhaps he had some insight into Ukrainian pronounciation...
Steve Ferns
36 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:24:29
36 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:24:29
Did anyone else enjoy Kevin Ratcliffe’s quip about Yakubu: "At least he’ll be able to find his way home tonight" (or owords to that effect.
Kevin’s incite and humour really sets him apart from other commentator’s and his honesty is refreshing in a commnetator. He has similar opinions to thole I know who regularly go the game and none of us have ever considered him to be negative whatsoever.
Kevin’s incite and humour really sets him apart from other commentator’s and his honesty is refreshing in a commnetator. He has similar opinions to thole I know who regularly go the game and none of us have ever considered him to be negative whatsoever.
Brian Noble
37 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:32:25
37 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:32:25
Infamy,infamy,they’ve all got in in for me.I tellyou this generation of Evertonians can’t even be happy when we’re winning.WTF cares what the media think of us although I do look forward to the day when the team plays well enough to excite REAL Evertonians such as Ratters!
Charlie Dimmock
38 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:39:44
38 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:39:44
I thought that he spent more time talking about how quiet the home crowd was last night than the actual game.
Charlie Percival
39 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:54:49
39 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:54:49
BRIAN, are you blind? I said Rats is Negative, not our generation! I think its your generation inc. M Kenrick which needs to to cheer up and be happy. I've never had glory days like you, so think before you speak.....
Kevin Ratcliffe is not meant to be the media, he is meant to be a part of us fans and Everton FC.
I'm very happy were winning, that's the whole point of this post. why the pessimism towards Everton from one of our own?
Don' t say were not real Evertonians, I say the real Evertonians are the ones who look forward with ambition, not the ones who look back with regret.
Kevin Ratcliffe is not meant to be the media, he is meant to be a part of us fans and Everton FC.
I'm very happy were winning, that's the whole point of this post. why the pessimism towards Everton from one of our own?
Don' t say were not real Evertonians, I say the real Evertonians are the ones who look forward with ambition, not the ones who look back with regret.
Karl Masters
40 Posted 14/02/2008 at 18:00:29
40 Posted 14/02/2008 at 18:00:29
Charlie. Kevin is employed by Channel 5 to comment on what he sees in fron t of him - honestly. Not to be a lazy, biased, Liverpool-esque freeloader like St. John or Hansen.
Personally, I thought we didn?t play well last night and even allowing for that poor pitch our passing was terrible sometimes. Kevin mentioned this and perhaps he showed his bias and frustration by criticising what was a well dodgy performance before we scored.
Anyway, I find him quite amusing. He can?t pronounce Jagielka at all and calls our Manager, ?Dave Moyles?. He was well known as a mickey taker as a player, maybe he?s having a bit of a laugh doing this now... at the expense of people like you. I like Chaneel 5?s coverage of what has been a rollercoaster campaign so far, even that annoying Red, Colin Murray doesn?t take himself too seriously. Far better than those miserable farts like Shearer and Hansen any day.
Personally, I thought we didn?t play well last night and even allowing for that poor pitch our passing was terrible sometimes. Kevin mentioned this and perhaps he showed his bias and frustration by criticising what was a well dodgy performance before we scored.
Anyway, I find him quite amusing. He can?t pronounce Jagielka at all and calls our Manager, ?Dave Moyles?. He was well known as a mickey taker as a player, maybe he?s having a bit of a laugh doing this now... at the expense of people like you. I like Chaneel 5?s coverage of what has been a rollercoaster campaign so far, even that annoying Red, Colin Murray doesn?t take himself too seriously. Far better than those miserable farts like Shearer and Hansen any day.
John Charles
41 Posted 14/02/2008 at 18:26:19
41 Posted 14/02/2008 at 18:26:19
Michael, you?re admiration for someone who has the "highest standards" is infact a man who was sacked by Shrewsbury Town for not being good enough.
Steve Ferns
42 Posted 14/02/2008 at 18:31:29
42 Posted 14/02/2008 at 18:31:29
John Charles, Kevin Ratcliffe was never sacked as a manager, by either Shrewsbury or Chester. Check your history.
He did an amazing job at Chester, he took them to the Play-offs and kept them in mid-table despite the fact they were going bust. He even used his own money to pay the bills, that’s the kind of guy he is. He only left when the new regime took over and Kevind decided he could not work with the barmy American who even believed that he could replace Kevin, despite not having a clue about football.
At Shrewsbury, he would be well revered on league form alone, keeping a small time in the professional leagues and comfortable for the most parts, when it was clearly against the odds. He is a legend in those parts for mastermiinding their great cup upset over a certain team in blue. Shrewsbury never got over the low that came as result of coming down from the major high and Kevin offered his resignation after they were relegated.
The man was a great manager at lower leve and I believe he could have done a job higher up if he had moved on and not been so loyal to Chester.
He did an amazing job at Chester, he took them to the Play-offs and kept them in mid-table despite the fact they were going bust. He even used his own money to pay the bills, that’s the kind of guy he is. He only left when the new regime took over and Kevind decided he could not work with the barmy American who even believed that he could replace Kevin, despite not having a clue about football.
At Shrewsbury, he would be well revered on league form alone, keeping a small time in the professional leagues and comfortable for the most parts, when it was clearly against the odds. He is a legend in those parts for mastermiinding their great cup upset over a certain team in blue. Shrewsbury never got over the low that came as result of coming down from the major high and Kevin offered his resignation after they were relegated.
The man was a great manager at lower leve and I believe he could have done a job higher up if he had moved on and not been so loyal to Chester.
Steve Ferns
43 Posted 14/02/2008 at 18:41:15
43 Posted 14/02/2008 at 18:41:15
To clarify, Ratcliffe left Chester, as the American Chairman was interfering in team affiars to the extent that once Ratcliffe left, he appointed himself as manager. Had he kept himself to himself, then Chester may have never gone down.
Mike Robinson
44 Posted 14/02/2008 at 18:57:54
44 Posted 14/02/2008 at 18:57:54
Good to see Barry Horne last night. I’d like to see him given Rats’ gig personally as he seems to talk a lot of sense for a pundit (apart from thinking victor was onside!).
Eileen Roberts
45 Posted 14/02/2008 at 19:23:29
45 Posted 14/02/2008 at 19:23:29
Whoever it was up at the top of this thread who said that the 80?s team was the best ever is either misguided or too young to know any better. Even I am too young to have seen the 1928, 1933 or the 1939 sides but what I can say is that the best Everton sides I have ever seen were the ?62/3 side and the 69/70 team. I would personally plump for the latter as playing the most free-flowing ?beautiful? stuff.
It is a common error to conclude that the 80?s sides played great football. They did not particularly and while they were immensely successful this should not be confused with playing sublime football. Take a look at the DVD of the Bayern Munich semi-final, that was what we got in the eighties. Powerful, fast and forceful football with no quarter given. Take a closer look at that DVD and take note of the passing errors from Everton in that game. Bayern probably (in my opinion) played the better ?football?. We used to overwhelm the opposition with power and pace more than with anything else in those days and while there were great moments and great goals and even greater victories we should not succumb to false memories and pretend that we were Real Madrid. We were just as effective....but not in the same way that many people assume. Especially those who either didn?t see it or didn?t see the earlier teams to compare them with.
It is a common error to conclude that the 80?s sides played great football. They did not particularly and while they were immensely successful this should not be confused with playing sublime football. Take a look at the DVD of the Bayern Munich semi-final, that was what we got in the eighties. Powerful, fast and forceful football with no quarter given. Take a closer look at that DVD and take note of the passing errors from Everton in that game. Bayern probably (in my opinion) played the better ?football?. We used to overwhelm the opposition with power and pace more than with anything else in those days and while there were great moments and great goals and even greater victories we should not succumb to false memories and pretend that we were Real Madrid. We were just as effective....but not in the same way that many people assume. Especially those who either didn?t see it or didn?t see the earlier teams to compare them with.
Charlie Percival
46 Posted 14/02/2008 at 19:49:03
46 Posted 14/02/2008 at 19:49:03
Please note this negative commentary has accumalated over all our Euro games, not just last night as some people seem to think.
Dave Hersham
47 Posted 14/02/2008 at 20:12:41
47 Posted 14/02/2008 at 20:12:41
Kevin Ratcliffe loves the fans, he is quoted many times saying how much he loved the fans at Everton, he said quote " I had great success at Everton, some great mates, but for me the fans was what made it for me, a class apart" I met him in Nuremberg by the their club shop got some great photos, we was chatting in the street and he said fuck this lads lets go for a bevi, got the round in and all he would go on about was the amount of fans in Nuremberg, for me he is a legend and a great lad, who gives a fuck if his commetry skills are poor, he as a fan can see some of our football is shit, and he is only saying what any Evertonian would say, listen to some other ex players like big nose thompson he still thinks the RS are going to win the league.
Arthur Jones
48 Posted 14/02/2008 at 20:09:55
48 Posted 14/02/2008 at 20:09:55
I?m not a kid, I?m 48 years old. I went to my 1st Everton game in 1968 so have been going for 40 years. Rats was a great player, when he moved to centre half; as a left back, not very good. Anyway in 40 years for about 5 of those years we?ve had a team that can live up to the NSNO tag: 2 years in the late 60s and 3 years mid 80s.
I?ve seen the best (1985 team) and the downright awful (most of the 90s, especially Mike Walker's teams). Right now, despite our smallish squad, our financial shortcomings, and lack of media support , we are in 4th place in the Premier League. Kevin Ratcliffe may be hankering over the ?old days?, aren?t we all? But right now , we are an improving team, we have at times this season played some superb football, the best for 20 years. This team though never just suddenly appeared one day , it?s been built bit by bit with some shrewd signings and maybe .... just maybe we could be approaching having a team capable of getting close to the teams we?ve had for 5 out of the last 40 years.
So Mr Ratcliffe and others who think that NSNO is ours by right, it isn?t; it takes time and hard work, and at the moment we?re getting there. And if in the mean time we have to endure a 2 - 0 away win in the Uefa Cup and a lowly 4th place in the Prem then so be it ? and Jags and Vic can be called djeka and anchovy or any pizza topping you like for all I care!
Mick Simo
49 Posted 14/02/2008 at 21:19:26
49 Posted 14/02/2008 at 21:19:26
I think if you accept the Rat is a Everton Fan and will think and say what most Blues was doing last night in that first half, more through frustration, those who went and seen the bigger picture or fans like me who couldnt go, screaming at the TV to hold the fucking ball and move for him. We being Evertonians are allowed to critisise our club but fuck me if any one else does we will let them know, bit like being a scouser we will joke about ourselves but wont tolerate some other dick head doing it, theres a word for this but I cant think of it but I will allow that, but only because he is a fan. But sorry Kev your commentating is shit and the next time I see you in Europe I will fucking tell you
Paul Simpson
50 Posted 14/02/2008 at 21:31:51
50 Posted 14/02/2008 at 21:31:51
I never seen the game on TV, I was in Bergen and went the game, so cant comment on Kevin Ratcliffe and his negitive commentry, I have heard a few toffees mentioning it. I am watching the Spurs game and fuck me listing to these pricks all this pro English commentry does my head in, commentator screaming for yellow cards for Prague players and every time a spurs player touches the ball its ’great skill, what a ball by Huddlesone, he only passed it 2 yards’ Now that is what does my head in all this fucking crap about I dont care who wins the cup as long as its a English club FUCK OFF, I hope they all get fucking knocked out exept us of course
Anthony Newellel
51 Posted 14/02/2008 at 21:44:49
51 Posted 14/02/2008 at 21:44:49
Andy Callan, reassuring to know it’s not just me that thinks that Garth Crooks is a complete knob jockey (and a 4kin arrogant one at that)
I thought there was nothing wrong with Ratters commentary last night other than his stupid pronunciations of names - Jag-Jel-Ka, Anchovy etc. I’m sure he probably does it deliberately for what reason I would not know - probably the same reason stupid twerps pronounce Pakistan, ’Pokistan’ on the news, just to be different. Ratters rightly pointed out that our football was in large part impotent last night apart from the goals of course. I have no problem with flying the Nil Satis Nisi Optimum flag whatsoever {note to self - avoid Norway if pints of beer are £8 a pint}
I thought there was nothing wrong with Ratters commentary last night other than his stupid pronunciations of names - Jag-Jel-Ka, Anchovy etc. I’m sure he probably does it deliberately for what reason I would not know - probably the same reason stupid twerps pronounce Pakistan, ’Pokistan’ on the news, just to be different. Ratters rightly pointed out that our football was in large part impotent last night apart from the goals of course. I have no problem with flying the Nil Satis Nisi Optimum flag whatsoever {note to self - avoid Norway if pints of beer are £8 a pint}
Phil Soutar
52 Posted 14/02/2008 at 22:09:43
52 Posted 14/02/2008 at 22:09:43
I dont have a problem with the guy as long as someone can teach him to pronounce surnames correctly!
Gary Wheat
53 Posted 14/02/2008 at 22:23:11
53 Posted 14/02/2008 at 22:23:11
Ratcliffe- exceptional centre half. ok left back. lousy commentator.
can’t pronounce the players names
can’t seem to find anything to say. he was garbage. just because he was a good player in a cracking side doesn’t mean we should hang on his every word.
can’t pronounce the players names
can’t seem to find anything to say. he was garbage. just because he was a good player in a cracking side doesn’t mean we should hang on his every word.
Sean Loftus
54 Posted 14/02/2008 at 22:29:21
54 Posted 14/02/2008 at 22:29:21
I totally agree, The Rat drives me mad!
Jamie Barlow
55 Posted 14/02/2008 at 22:28:02
55 Posted 14/02/2008 at 22:28:02
Totally agree with everything you say!! Get the man off the television.
Mark Creevy
56 Posted 14/02/2008 at 22:42:48
56 Posted 14/02/2008 at 22:42:48
Kevin Ratcliffe is a blinkered, overly negative, ineloquent and downright garbage colour commentator who obviously has it in for the current EFC setup.
Why the hell can’t he get a full time slot on MOTD??
No, really. I think he is a poor commentator. Certainly no worse than the likes on John Barnes etc. He can’t get certain names right. We even had a Yoho playing for us yesterday. What he does inject though, is a true love of Everton, warts and all. If he thinks we’re playing shit, he’ll say so, because he loves this club, and wants it to be great again. It probably hurts him more than us to see Everton resorting to ’hoofball’. The man has impossibly high standards (set by himself and his teammates) and expects every Everton team to live up to them. He’s one of the few who actually remembers the true meaning of Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.
Doesn’t make him a good commentator though, despite his humourous quips...
Anyone know what Dave Watson is up to these days?
Why the hell can’t he get a full time slot on MOTD??
No, really. I think he is a poor commentator. Certainly no worse than the likes on John Barnes etc. He can’t get certain names right. We even had a Yoho playing for us yesterday. What he does inject though, is a true love of Everton, warts and all. If he thinks we’re playing shit, he’ll say so, because he loves this club, and wants it to be great again. It probably hurts him more than us to see Everton resorting to ’hoofball’. The man has impossibly high standards (set by himself and his teammates) and expects every Everton team to live up to them. He’s one of the few who actually remembers the true meaning of Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.
Doesn’t make him a good commentator though, despite his humourous quips...
Anyone know what Dave Watson is up to these days?
roy coyne
57 Posted 14/02/2008 at 23:43:57
57 Posted 14/02/2008 at 23:43:57
Well as I am old enough to have seen Ratters at his best I know where people backing him come from.But I find him annoying as the young man who wrote the post ,he does seem to relish giving stick and when hes on with that dickhead kopite he never seems to defend us from the sly remarks about our players ,he also fails to get the names right I would not go as far as to say I prefer the redshite,but he is only marginally better
Ed Fitzgerald
58 Posted 14/02/2008 at 23:45:30
58 Posted 14/02/2008 at 23:45:30
Mr O'Brien
I do have a grip on reality and having watched the Rat and Lescott, I do think Lescott is a better footballer than Rats.
I do have a grip on reality and having watched the Rat and Lescott, I do think Lescott is a better footballer than Rats.
A post made a comment that Rats was ok at left back ? i beg to differ he was shite at full back. Lescott is better on the ball, in the air, has a better positional sense and scores more! Rats was quicker, I will grant you that. If Moyes keeps playing him at left back we will lose him probably to Arsenal because I am sure if he is playing for them he would not be moved out of his best position to fit others in. I know the arguments for it but somehow to have a centre-half of rare quality and play him out of position is wrong.
Peter Hall
59 Posted 15/02/2008 at 00:01:17
59 Posted 15/02/2008 at 00:01:17
The Rat is one of those miserable people who do not belong in the media, especially when the reason for them being there is their Everton history. Put him with Ringo. Some people are just like that. I’m not surprised he was a failure as a manager.
Some people just love to complain rather than be positive. When I went to Leeds as a student, a friend (I’m broadminded!) gave me his season ticket to see them against Wolves, 3rd round FA Cup. Leeds had set a record for games undefeated and were many points ahead in the first division. Half-time 0-0. I said to the guy next to me that they weren’t too good today>
"Been like that all fucking season!" he said, when the f word still meant something. And taught me a lesson. Thanks mate - hope you’re enjoying this season . . . .
Some people just love to complain rather than be positive. When I went to Leeds as a student, a friend (I’m broadminded!) gave me his season ticket to see them against Wolves, 3rd round FA Cup. Leeds had set a record for games undefeated and were many points ahead in the first division. Half-time 0-0. I said to the guy next to me that they weren’t too good today>
"Been like that all fucking season!" he said, when the f word still meant something. And taught me a lesson. Thanks mate - hope you’re enjoying this season . . . .
Lee Rogers
60 Posted 15/02/2008 at 00:34:40
60 Posted 15/02/2008 at 00:34:40
Never mind about the Rat, but what about the cameraman couldn?t bloody keep up with the play???
David Barks
61 Posted 15/02/2008 at 00:58:03
61 Posted 15/02/2008 at 00:58:03
We complain about the media being biased against us and full of reds. Now we complain that he’s only there because he’s an Evertonian and not good enough at commentary. I just don’t know any more. Okay, he can be a bit negative, so what. I think it’s just down to him being too much of a supporter and therefore getting too passionate about what he’s seeing. He commentates like most of us watch the games at home. But I don’t really care, is this what we have to worry about now?
David Jones
62 Posted 15/02/2008 at 00:54:34
62 Posted 15/02/2008 at 00:54:34
I think Ratters summary is absolutely superb to be honest and I find myself agreeing with more or less everything he has to say.
Many Evertonians like to sugar coat everything and have no real grasp on reality. they believe mediocre football to be superb football and absolute dross football to be ’decent’.
Ratters just tells it like it is. If he sees a shoody display, he calls a shoddy display. I would much rather listen to him than someone who will try and convince me that I am watching something other than the game I am. If people can’t deal with the truth turn down the vloume, simple!!
Many Evertonians like to sugar coat everything and have no real grasp on reality. they believe mediocre football to be superb football and absolute dross football to be ’decent’.
Ratters just tells it like it is. If he sees a shoody display, he calls a shoddy display. I would much rather listen to him than someone who will try and convince me that I am watching something other than the game I am. If people can’t deal with the truth turn down the vloume, simple!!
Steve Ryan
63 Posted 15/02/2008 at 02:58:52
63 Posted 15/02/2008 at 02:58:52
Eileen Roberts, why are people who disagree with you misguided. Everyone has their own opinions and I for one believe that the football produced by the great 80s team was actually ?free flowing?. Have you forgotten that we scored about 100 goals in the 84/85 seasons and how many of them were breathtaking?
In Trevor Steven and Kevin Sheedy we had two of the most skilful and technically gifted players ever to play for Everton. As great as they were, both Bally and Kendall relied heavily on their energy levels and mobility and it was only Harvey in that midfield who possessed great technique and skill...... my misguided opinion only!!!
Sean Long
64 Posted 15/02/2008 at 02:22:09
64 Posted 15/02/2008 at 02:22:09
Charlie, you have opened up a debate which many Evertonians have been discussing since Ratcliffe's introduction as match summariser on Five's Everton coverage, for that well done. Michael Kenrick, your reply paints you in a rather negative light. I can't quite grasp if you are defending Ratcliffe or not, he (the Rat) does come across as a negative and hard-to-please individual, I also don't believe he is being particularly honest in his appraisal as some of his comments don't summarise what I am watching.
I believe he is sitting in the stand looking at the fair on show and is thinking it wasn't like that in my day, and anyone who went to UCD at home in the autmumn of 1984 can assure him it was!! Age by the way is irrelevant and I?m not sure being condescending to a fellow post(er) is conducive to mature debate... ask your mates to see if they agree with you.
Final point on Ratcliffe, in comparison to Goodlass on Radio Merseyide and Horne on City, and now Five's coverage (most welcome he is too) there isnt one!! These two give a far more balanced critique of all things Everton FC. Where has Ratcliffe been for the last 15 years as the only time I have seen him on TV has been an infrequent studio guest on sky and BBC for Wales internationals that in itself is a pointer to his media skills.
Varun Rajwade
65 Posted 15/02/2008 at 03:06:57
65 Posted 15/02/2008 at 03:06:57
Michael, its not the young guys like me and Charlie who are talking crap, its YOU!!!!
YOU seem to stay in a good ga-ga land where people always pass beuatifully. Even if half the team is injured or just coming after injury of AFCN. We win and unlike against Reading, were reasonably convincing. Yes it was not very pretty but we missed Arteta, Pienaar and had a few players coming back.
I just do not understand you, as all I can say is GROW-UP.. Maybe you are a 65-70 yr old wizened man who has reduced or even no gray matter left. Maybe all you have is a nice romantist heart, but maan even the wizards of style, Bazil have moved away to a more ’Everton’ like way of playing football. The only intl team that plays with style is Argentina and they are not successful in 22 years. Maybe there is a reason for that, maybe its not possible to keep on playing the beautiful, high-rhythm game. Maybe the fact that coaches use so much video to find out gaps and battle is the reaon, maybe you are just cannot comprehend, maybe I am rude, but I love Everton and speak the way I see it...
I feel for you Michael, but I study in a top B-school in US and we are taught rationale. And methinks that if you do and indeed IF you can think rationally about effects of team churn, you will realise it was a really good win.. But the question is IF you can think and not just feel...
YOU seem to stay in a good ga-ga land where people always pass beuatifully. Even if half the team is injured or just coming after injury of AFCN. We win and unlike against Reading, were reasonably convincing. Yes it was not very pretty but we missed Arteta, Pienaar and had a few players coming back.
I just do not understand you, as all I can say is GROW-UP.. Maybe you are a 65-70 yr old wizened man who has reduced or even no gray matter left. Maybe all you have is a nice romantist heart, but maan even the wizards of style, Bazil have moved away to a more ’Everton’ like way of playing football. The only intl team that plays with style is Argentina and they are not successful in 22 years. Maybe there is a reason for that, maybe its not possible to keep on playing the beautiful, high-rhythm game. Maybe the fact that coaches use so much video to find out gaps and battle is the reaon, maybe you are just cannot comprehend, maybe I am rude, but I love Everton and speak the way I see it...
I feel for you Michael, but I study in a top B-school in US and we are taught rationale. And methinks that if you do and indeed IF you can think rationally about effects of team churn, you will realise it was a really good win.. But the question is IF you can think and not just feel...
Michael Kenrick
66 Posted 15/02/2008 at 05:09:44
66 Posted 15/02/2008 at 05:09:44
So... that is what I call diversity. Please some of you, explain to me why there is no room for the "call it as I see it" analysis the Rat offers? It’s the same on here after games ? there are a bunch of you who cannot tolerate any critical analysis... Why?
Why do you have to lay into those who offer up their assessment of the way the team played? It’s the same old same old. If you think all that matters is the result, that’s fine. But why must you attempt to muzzle and denigrate those who are looking for a little more in terms of quality on the field? It really is getting boring....
Charlie, to answer your questions:
1) It’s got nothing to do with living in the past: it’s about watching the game as we play it now and saying "that could have been better". It’s not negative, it’s postitive because changing the way we play is really the only way we will improve. We need to improve to beat the top teams now and in the future; it has nothing whatsoever to do with the past.
2) It’s not really about his Everton career either ? and why should that have anything to do with his analysis of the game? If he doesn’t think we are playing that well ? which we clearly are not ? why can’t he say so? Some people think it’s negative; other people think it’s spot on. That’s diversity. But you want him to change, and be something he is not; I don’t. That’s the difference. Why must you force people to conform to your views? That is obnxious in the extreme.
3) I said he is paid to watch poor football, I did not say we are a poor team. There is a difference. If it’s really about protecting poor simple fans who cannot tolerate critical analysis, well I’m sorry but they need to toughen up.
4) This thread should surely tell you that one man’s constructive criticism is another man’s negative bias. Live with it. It ain’t ever gonna change.
5) You’re the one who felt it was necessary to bring your age into the discussion (WHY?). If you are daft enough to predicate your views on the basis of your age, I feel fully justified to have a go. I think part of growing up is understanding that there are a diversity of views out there that differ from your own, and intolerance of such views seems to be the preserve of the young ? that’s what your post was saying to me.
Yes, by all means turn the sound down if you must. But if you want some pointers as to how Everton can become better than they are (which is what I’m really interested in), it might just be worth listening to what the Rat has to say...
Why do you have to lay into those who offer up their assessment of the way the team played? It’s the same old same old. If you think all that matters is the result, that’s fine. But why must you attempt to muzzle and denigrate those who are looking for a little more in terms of quality on the field? It really is getting boring....
Charlie, to answer your questions:
1) It’s got nothing to do with living in the past: it’s about watching the game as we play it now and saying "that could have been better". It’s not negative, it’s postitive because changing the way we play is really the only way we will improve. We need to improve to beat the top teams now and in the future; it has nothing whatsoever to do with the past.
2) It’s not really about his Everton career either ? and why should that have anything to do with his analysis of the game? If he doesn’t think we are playing that well ? which we clearly are not ? why can’t he say so? Some people think it’s negative; other people think it’s spot on. That’s diversity. But you want him to change, and be something he is not; I don’t. That’s the difference. Why must you force people to conform to your views? That is obnxious in the extreme.
3) I said he is paid to watch poor football, I did not say we are a poor team. There is a difference. If it’s really about protecting poor simple fans who cannot tolerate critical analysis, well I’m sorry but they need to toughen up.
4) This thread should surely tell you that one man’s constructive criticism is another man’s negative bias. Live with it. It ain’t ever gonna change.
5) You’re the one who felt it was necessary to bring your age into the discussion (WHY?). If you are daft enough to predicate your views on the basis of your age, I feel fully justified to have a go. I think part of growing up is understanding that there are a diversity of views out there that differ from your own, and intolerance of such views seems to be the preserve of the young ? that’s what your post was saying to me.
Yes, by all means turn the sound down if you must. But if you want some pointers as to how Everton can become better than they are (which is what I’m really interested in), it might just be worth listening to what the Rat has to say...
David Briscoe
67 Posted 15/02/2008 at 07:14:25
67 Posted 15/02/2008 at 07:14:25
I don’t think Ratters is the best commentator in the world but he’s certainly not the worst.
One thing I will say in his defence is he keeps saying "WE" rather than Everton. eg. We need to pass it better.
That tells me he’s a Blue - how many more of us could do the job without screaming down the microphone when something happens ? I know I couldn’t - I was screaming at the telly when Erik Bakke was climbing all over Tim Howard claiming for a foul and nearly gave my next door neighbour a heart attack when Leon scored the first goal.
One thing I will say in his defence is he keeps saying "WE" rather than Everton. eg. We need to pass it better.
That tells me he’s a Blue - how many more of us could do the job without screaming down the microphone when something happens ? I know I couldn’t - I was screaming at the telly when Erik Bakke was climbing all over Tim Howard claiming for a foul and nearly gave my next door neighbour a heart attack when Leon scored the first goal.
Paul Lenehan
68 Posted 15/02/2008 at 09:39:11
68 Posted 15/02/2008 at 09:39:11
So what if he pronounces names wrong! as was previously said get a grip lads!
Allan Hobbs
69 Posted 15/02/2008 at 09:42:05
69 Posted 15/02/2008 at 09:42:05
Its not so much his negativity thats annoying, its his inability to speak properly that annoys me! he can’t pronounce half the players names for a start; what’s with all this ’Ja-jelka’ stuff he keeps coming out with??
Surely when choosing a co-commentator the overiding factor is whether they can pronounce peoples names!
I thought Collymore was pretty good on the ANC Paul - although whats he been eating lately!?!
Surely when choosing a co-commentator the overiding factor is whether they can pronounce peoples names!
I thought Collymore was pretty good on the ANC Paul - although whats he been eating lately!?!
Terry Maddock
70 Posted 15/02/2008 at 09:20:18
70 Posted 15/02/2008 at 09:20:18
I had the sound on for two games broadcast on channel 5..
I now have the radio commentary:
Ratcliffe was on of the best centre backs to play for Everton..but his criticism during games is trite..
I dont feel he gives a balanced view of the game, why ? I dont know..have seen him out and about at away games and sportsmans dinners and he comes across as a great bloke who genuinley loves Everton...but once he puts his headphones on..!!! I realise the commentary is shared but he only seems to but in when he has a negative point to make..
I recorded the game on Wednesday and watched again with the original commentary and he does it again..he just butts in wgen a pass goes astray or a shot misses..How many times does he praise Jags or Jolean..I can tell you it was once in the whole game..for DJELKA..!! and that was given with a 4 line introduction of how shit he used to be when played in midfield..( reality check Rats..you were an awful full back,then you got moved into the centre)..
I truth he is just a piss poor commentator.legend or not. Barry Horne may not have been a legend but he is 10 times better at calling a game than Rats is..
I now have the radio commentary:
Ratcliffe was on of the best centre backs to play for Everton..but his criticism during games is trite..
I dont feel he gives a balanced view of the game, why ? I dont know..have seen him out and about at away games and sportsmans dinners and he comes across as a great bloke who genuinley loves Everton...but once he puts his headphones on..!!! I realise the commentary is shared but he only seems to but in when he has a negative point to make..
I recorded the game on Wednesday and watched again with the original commentary and he does it again..he just butts in wgen a pass goes astray or a shot misses..How many times does he praise Jags or Jolean..I can tell you it was once in the whole game..for DJELKA..!! and that was given with a 4 line introduction of how shit he used to be when played in midfield..( reality check Rats..you were an awful full back,then you got moved into the centre)..
I truth he is just a piss poor commentator.legend or not. Barry Horne may not have been a legend but he is 10 times better at calling a game than Rats is..
Mark Perry
71 Posted 15/02/2008 at 09:57:05
71 Posted 15/02/2008 at 09:57:05
I read Michaels posts and picture this guy wth vains throbbing in his forehead and red bulging eyes, screaming at the computer - CALM DOWN
Rats was a great Everton player, a great captain, but he is a poor pundit, he cant get the names right, is overly negative, and if you got the live feed you could hear some of the digs he made at the players.
He does make some good comments but they are infrequent and he controdicts himself, like over the keepers save from Ossy in the first half.
I’m sure hes a great bloke to have a pint with or tell you about oure glory days, but as a TV pundit i’d rather have the ex redshite and Motty, at least you know what your getting with them and they get the names right.
Rats was a great Everton player, a great captain, but he is a poor pundit, he cant get the names right, is overly negative, and if you got the live feed you could hear some of the digs he made at the players.
He does make some good comments but they are infrequent and he controdicts himself, like over the keepers save from Ossy in the first half.
I’m sure hes a great bloke to have a pint with or tell you about oure glory days, but as a TV pundit i’d rather have the ex redshite and Motty, at least you know what your getting with them and they get the names right.
Darrel Pugh
72 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:39:26
72 Posted 14/02/2008 at 17:39:26
What the hell are people talking about on this thread? Having a pop at Kevin Ratcliffe... do me a favour, he is our most successful captain ever ? a true blue if ever there was one ? and his commentary is honest and only ever negative because he wants us to do better than we are. If you do know your histroy, Rats is someone beyond criticism.
Chris Briddon
73 Posted 15/02/2008 at 11:18:35
73 Posted 15/02/2008 at 11:18:35
Do people not realise that Ratcliffe was an Everton legend and therefore beyond any criticism of any issue. Next you will be having people criticising Alan Ball’s mangement skills.
the fact he is a once great player is irrelevant. People complain about media bias against us - but then are happy with an Evertonian who spouts negativity all the time.
Pat Nevin & Barry Horne try to be positive & if you ever watch Reidy when he’s on SKY he’s always enthusiastic and excited - even when we are crap and he has to be critical occasionally.
Ratcliffe just sound like he doesn’t want to be there, and the last thing he really wants to do is sit through an Everton game.
And as for people criticising Alan Hansen, I know he’s a Red, but he’s one of the best pundits around.
the fact he is a once great player is irrelevant. People complain about media bias against us - but then are happy with an Evertonian who spouts negativity all the time.
Pat Nevin & Barry Horne try to be positive & if you ever watch Reidy when he’s on SKY he’s always enthusiastic and excited - even when we are crap and he has to be critical occasionally.
Ratcliffe just sound like he doesn’t want to be there, and the last thing he really wants to do is sit through an Everton game.
And as for people criticising Alan Hansen, I know he’s a Red, but he’s one of the best pundits around.
Andy Callan
74 Posted 15/02/2008 at 11:50:37
74 Posted 15/02/2008 at 11:50:37
Hansen is an over opinionated, self indulgent twat; just like Andy Gray.
Remember, "you never win anything with kids"......
I rest my case.
Remember, "you never win anything with kids"......
I rest my case.
Jonathan Bradley
75 Posted 15/02/2008 at 12:02:37
75 Posted 15/02/2008 at 12:02:37
What a pointless thread. Yes, he isnt that good a pundit, but very few of them are - witness John Barnes, for example - and his criticisms of Everton, especially vs Brann, were spot on. We were rubbish, especially Fernandes, and the only thing that saved us was that Brann were far, far worse.
David Jones
76 Posted 15/02/2008 at 12:16:59
76 Posted 15/02/2008 at 12:16:59
It’s unreal how utterly stupid some people are and i’m not at all sorry if that offends. Michael has made his point 100% clear and it makes perfect sense. Still though people are coming on saying how Ratters is a ’bad pundit’ because he ’spouts negativity’. I have long said that Everton’s support is ’dumbing down’ and some of you are living proof. Try to engage brain before pressing keys.
Chris Briddon
77 Posted 15/02/2008 at 12:21:06
77 Posted 15/02/2008 at 12:21:06
Andy; How can you describe Hansen & Gray as over-opinionated? They are football pundits, it is there job to have an opinion ? it would be a bit pointless if they didn?t.
I happen to think that both Gray and Hansen are 2 of the most knowledgeable pundits around and do their job very well.
As for the kids remark - it was after Man Utd had been completely overrun at Villa on the opening day of the season, and most people would have said exactly the same thing
I suppose you?ve never made any comments / predictions that turned out to be inaccurate have you.
I happen to think that both Gray and Hansen are 2 of the most knowledgeable pundits around and do their job very well.
As for the kids remark - it was after Man Utd had been completely overrun at Villa on the opening day of the season, and most people would have said exactly the same thing
I suppose you?ve never made any comments / predictions that turned out to be inaccurate have you.
Barry Bridges
78 Posted 15/02/2008 at 12:45:08
78 Posted 15/02/2008 at 12:45:08
Totally agree that Ratcliffe was a great player and a legend, and very probably a great bloke too. But the fact remains he is a very poor pundit.
The thing that I notice more than anything is his constant use of the words ?a little bit? as in ?He was a little bit slow there? or ?they need to show a little bit more creativity?. I noticed this early on, and swear he must have used this phrase in every single sentence throughout the game. If you watch the match on telly next week or record it and watch it later, listen out for this. It?ll drive you mad.
The thing that I notice more than anything is his constant use of the words ?a little bit? as in ?He was a little bit slow there? or ?they need to show a little bit more creativity?. I noticed this early on, and swear he must have used this phrase in every single sentence throughout the game. If you watch the match on telly next week or record it and watch it later, listen out for this. It?ll drive you mad.
Guy Wilkinson
79 Posted 15/02/2008 at 13:42:57
79 Posted 15/02/2008 at 13:42:57
Collymore is a great summariser. The only other one up to his standard is the safari suited kerb crawler Pleat.
Ratcliffe is a good observer but a poor summariser/analyst. I’d still walk barefoot over broken glass to shake his hand.
Ratcliffe is a good observer but a poor summariser/analyst. I’d still walk barefoot over broken glass to shake his hand.
Stevie Dunn
80 Posted 15/02/2008 at 13:53:34
80 Posted 15/02/2008 at 13:53:34
Don?t get me wrong. Ratters is ace and I?ll always love him, but as a co-comentator he was shocking! Some of the things he said don?t match up with someone who is still avidly following the blues.
And then the Degelka thing...petty yes, but still extremely annoying!
It is channel 5 though so what do you expect. Ratters, great player, but not so great as a commentator.
And then the Degelka thing...petty yes, but still extremely annoying!
It is channel 5 though so what do you expect. Ratters, great player, but not so great as a commentator.
David Jones
81 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:33:48
81 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:33:48
Agree with you Guy about Stan Collymore, I really enjoyed listening to him during the african nations. His dreary voice will probably not get him into the mainstream but a lot of the content of his comments, which is what interests me to be honest, was absolutely spot on and very insightful.
That is how I find Ratters. He may get a name wrong, he may appear negative or whatever but the guy talks sense without a doubt.
That is how I find Ratters. He may get a name wrong, he may appear negative or whatever but the guy talks sense without a doubt.
Terry Jones
82 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:04:45
82 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:04:45
Listen I am good mates with Kevin and he is so passionate about Everton and loves the fans, he is aware of the criticism on this site and other about his negative comments while working for Ch5 but it his also his brief to be different from some other channels, and also that is the lads personality. To say he is looking back and all that is wrong, he is an Evertonian and wants success just as much as me and you. Just a note on Hanson and Liniker they bore me to death with the same comments week in week out, but I do agree about Stan Collymores excellent knowledge of the game to.
Si Page
83 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:03:52
83 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:03:52
Charlie - I?ve never heard him commentate, so really can?t comment, but i?ll give it a go anyways...i?m guessing that Ratcliffe is simply being hypercritical of his beloved (yes, i?m pretty certain that Kevin has a small soft spot for EFC) football club, much as in the same way as everybody I know is.
Daniel Marfany
84 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:02:51
84 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:02:51
Steve Ferns!! Are you Fernsey of CTK fame?? If so hello again.
Got to disagree about Rats as a commentator though. Its not just that his voice is monotone and drab, or that he stares open-mouthed at the camera when they first come on telly, or his inability to pronounce players names that are written in front of him, but also that he clearly contradicts himself.
Great player, probably good to chat about footy with in the pub, but NOT a good commentator. And I am 29 like yourself and at 5 had poster of him on my wall.
Got to disagree about Rats as a commentator though. Its not just that his voice is monotone and drab, or that he stares open-mouthed at the camera when they first come on telly, or his inability to pronounce players names that are written in front of him, but also that he clearly contradicts himself.
Great player, probably good to chat about footy with in the pub, but NOT a good commentator. And I am 29 like yourself and at 5 had poster of him on my wall.
Barry Cass
85 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:15:40
85 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:15:40
When I listen to Ratcliffe I keep wondering who these 2 new players we have are : Ja Jelka and Fernan daze !!!! He also said we played Karkov in the 1st round !!
The thing that bugged me was when he kept saying how disappointed he was with the Brann side and their supporters!! I wasn?t ? I was made up they were shite!
Great defender though .
The thing that bugged me was when he kept saying how disappointed he was with the Brann side and their supporters!! I wasn?t ? I was made up they were shite!
Great defender though .
Sean Long
86 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:04:20
86 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:04:20
Are we losing sight of the fact that Ratcliffe generally puts a negative spin on what he is watching, rather like an irritating supporter sitting within earshot at the match. My general reaction to people like that is to let them know that their comments are not welcome, bearing in mind that he is on TV and, like it or not, was the most succesful captain in our history, neutrals watching Wednesday's match might form the opinion that he is speaking for Evertonians in general, and that ?our? opinion is although we are 4th in the league and have won 6 games on the trot in European competition we arent playing that well and are in some kind of false position, when in fact the general consensus amongst most match going blues I know is that we are playing the best football at Goodison since the late 80s
James Murphy
87 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:21:59
87 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:21:59
Am I reading this right, because Kevin Ratcliffe played for Everton and works for CH5 now he isn't allowed to speak the truth? I have been to all Everton's away games in Europe and if anyone on this site can tell me we have played well for 90 minutes didin't watch the full 90 minutes.
Nuremberg was a bad game, we was shite; Brann... fuck me that first half was shite; same as Metalist. What do you want him to say... ??? "Oh yes the mighty Blues have played like Brazil..."??? Imagine the other viewers of CH5 bombarding the show saying how much of a gobshite he is.
Get a grip all you armchair supporters, you kick off by the RS dominated media and how much they lick the arse of LFC. What a stupid thread you want a puppet turn to BBC and fuck-face Lineker who it took 20 years to remember he played for us ? talk about having your cake and eat it.
Get the game and you won't need to listen to commentators...
Kenny Jones
88 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:34:49
88 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:34:49
The reason he cant pronounce the names because he is always pissed when I see him at the match, I dont care about TV, Commentators, pundits or presenters because I am deaf, they all look stupid to me just like this fucking post, what as it got to do with the match?????????????????????#
Corriee is starting soon get the kettle on load of coach pototoes
Corriee is starting soon get the kettle on load of coach pototoes
Andy Callan
89 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:45:46
89 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:45:46
Chris - Hansen and Gray are both twats...
You can have an opinion without LOVING the sound of your own voice. Redknapp is another.... Idiots.
I would prefer to just have the sound of the croud on and have no commentators if I am honest.
They are all dickheads...
You can have an opinion without LOVING the sound of your own voice. Redknapp is another.... Idiots.
I would prefer to just have the sound of the croud on and have no commentators if I am honest.
They are all dickheads...
Rob Jones
90 Posted 15/02/2008 at 19:23:29
90 Posted 15/02/2008 at 19:23:29
Why The Fuck are Kenny and James criticising people that can’t get to the match and so decide to watch it on TV, should we just not bother watching? would you feel better then? The fact is if all us ’’armchair fans’’ had the opportunity to go to the matches every week, unless you have a season ticket, you’d see about 10 games a season.
Sam Beswick
91 Posted 15/02/2008 at 19:36:19
91 Posted 15/02/2008 at 19:36:19
The twat was in Kirkby the other week with Sharpy opening the new leisure centre and representing Everton in the community. As far as i’m concerned he’s washed his hands of THE Everton FC.
KEIOC!!!
Andy Smith
92 Posted 15/02/2008 at 19:55:28
92 Posted 15/02/2008 at 19:55:28
Sam - how dare you call Ratcliffe and Sharpy a twat just for supporting (however subtle the way they do it) the Kirkby move, the fans voted for it anyway.
If your KEIOC viewpoint is typical then i’m glad you won’t be coming with us to Kirkby, the club can do without supporters like you calling legends ’twats’.
If your KEIOC viewpoint is typical then i’m glad you won’t be coming with us to Kirkby, the club can do without supporters like you calling legends ’twats’.
Kenny Jones
93 Posted 15/02/2008 at 19:58:59
93 Posted 15/02/2008 at 19:58:59
To be honest it took me a while to say Jaganelka bit of tounge twister, same as Victor Anichippy and Gary Line acre, or Andy Hingecliff, I am deaf though
Matt Bone
94 Posted 15/02/2008 at 21:36:08
94 Posted 15/02/2008 at 21:36:08
Just because Ratcliffe was once an Everton great doesn't mean you can excuse his constant criticism of Everton, poor punditry and poor pronounciation of first teamer names. EVERY fan in the country could prounonce Jagielka and Anichebe better than him. He may well still be an Everton fan but he is not cut out for TV. the bloke comes across as a tool. GET RID now!!!!
Steve Hampton
95 Posted 15/02/2008 at 22:49:04
95 Posted 15/02/2008 at 22:49:04
Color/Colour commentator is his job. The vision that Ratcliffe has is spot on. I only saw the second half. For me the team played poorly and won 0-2.
Ratcliffe can?t say Everton were playing great.. They weren?t! Brann was a poor team and we never took advantage. Sometimes we play uninspired football. Do you really think we played free flowing football on Wednesday?
What else should he say? Rats has to comment on what he sees. He can?t see Manny giveaway the ball and be positive about that. Manny has quality but didn?t show it!
I am on high that we are in 4th and still in Europe. I still want to see good football. I know the players have it in them. When I watch Everton I want us to WIN first. If they don?t played well, I will say so.
Against Reading they didn?t play well but I?ll take the victory. The same goes for Brann.
I have some tv experience; When you see a cross not go beyond the first man time and time again; what does a commentator say (aah hard luck son try again) Not the way good sports commentating works. It?s quite simple Jags played great.. he had lots of positives to say about him.
Ratcliffe can?t say Everton were playing great.. They weren?t! Brann was a poor team and we never took advantage. Sometimes we play uninspired football. Do you really think we played free flowing football on Wednesday?
What else should he say? Rats has to comment on what he sees. He can?t see Manny giveaway the ball and be positive about that. Manny has quality but didn?t show it!
I am on high that we are in 4th and still in Europe. I still want to see good football. I know the players have it in them. When I watch Everton I want us to WIN first. If they don?t played well, I will say so.
Against Reading they didn?t play well but I?ll take the victory. The same goes for Brann.
I have some tv experience; When you see a cross not go beyond the first man time and time again; what does a commentator say (aah hard luck son try again) Not the way good sports commentating works. It?s quite simple Jags played great.. he had lots of positives to say about him.
Jimmy Fearns
96 Posted 16/02/2008 at 10:34:56
96 Posted 16/02/2008 at 10:34:56
In one of the previous rounds ,Ratcliffe constantly ripped in to Arteta accusing him of diving and going to ground to easily. So this is not anything new from him .
John Reilly
97 Posted 16/02/2008 at 12:25:53
97 Posted 16/02/2008 at 12:25:53
Don't know if it's been mentioned before, but we're now in the Chinese Year of the Rat....
European connotations sound familiar, anyone???
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For some, me included, football ? especially Everton's football ? should be about achieving the best. No matter how well you play, there is allways room for improvement, and let's face it, the football currently is rather poor, is it not?
Personally, I have far more respect for someone who who has high standards when it comes to playing the game, and who can excerise their critical faculties analytically rather than blathering meaningless platitudes. To claim that this constitutes bias against Everton (or worse!) is just ridiculous.
You're young; all your mates probably think as you do... which is why they are your mates. Understand there is diversity out there in the big wide world. We don't all have to think the same. We don't all have to react the same when we watch football. The results might be great but do we all have to be happy and positive if the"beautiful game" is being mutilated before our eyes?
Nobody's begruding you your happiness and positivity... why do you have to begrudge the reactions and analysis of others because they have a different perspective?