The Mail Bag
Watch The Pennies & The Millions Will Take Care of Themselves
Comments (33)
I saw a report on Sky TV last night which stated that Everton are sitting just outside the Top 20 richest clubs in the world and that by this time next year with TV revenue, we should break into the top 20.
Although I don't totally understand the ins and outs of this rich list and I know Blue Bill and the Board have been slated at times for not stumping up enough cash for players at the right times, and I also realize that under the current leadership we will never be competing with Man U or Chelsea in the transfer market, but I feel we do have to give the Chairman, the Board and the management massive credit from digging the club out of the preverbial and getting us to the level of stability we currently have at the club.
It wasn't too many years ago when it was touch and go, we were at the same crossroads as Leeds United. I'm just thankful that we took the correct turning! I know we are not Real Madrid just yet, but we are so much better off than the Peter Johnson era and that's largely down to Bill & Co!
Ian Ankers, Posted 15/02/2008 at 12:09:34
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Gerard Fox
1 Posted 15/02/2008 at 14:33:05
1 Posted 15/02/2008 at 14:33:05
I didn’t think transfer fees received where included in the calculation?
Mike Carlisle
2 Posted 15/02/2008 at 14:25:50
2 Posted 15/02/2008 at 14:25:50
So you are concerned that we slipped out of the top twenty rich list under Bill and Buster, but then in the next sentence pour scorn on the fact we were ever in it because it was only through selling Rooney.
Something tells me you are just picking at anything you can to have a go.
Why not just be content that with no HUGE influx of new finance to the club, we are doing alright (if what Ian says is correct).
And before you say it, yes I love Bill and Buster. I have a room at home with nothing but pictures of them. Sometimes I dance in my pants with cardboard cut outs of Lord Kenright (Head of the Universe) to old ragtime tunes;-)
Something tells me you are just picking at anything you can to have a go.
Why not just be content that with no HUGE influx of new finance to the club, we are doing alright (if what Ian says is correct).
And before you say it, yes I love Bill and Buster. I have a room at home with nothing but pictures of them. Sometimes I dance in my pants with cardboard cut outs of Lord Kenright (Head of the Universe) to old ragtime tunes;-)
Michael Hunt
3 Posted 15/02/2008 at 14:32:08
3 Posted 15/02/2008 at 14:32:08
Perhaps, Michael, it is more impressive if we are climbing the financial league table without selling prize assets while investing to secure alterative prize assets e.g. buying Yakubu and Pienaar instead of selling Rooney.
OR, is it expected we’ll be rich next year coz of flogging GP to become Tesco’s tennants (oh shit, let’s not mention the K word....)
OR, is it expected we’ll be rich next year coz of flogging GP to become Tesco’s tennants (oh shit, let’s not mention the K word....)
Oz Flanagan
4 Posted 15/02/2008 at 14:30:07
4 Posted 15/02/2008 at 14:30:07
Michael, you seem to have contradicted yourself.
We would not have been in the Top 20 Rich List if it wasn’t for the Rooney windfall. However, we are now on the verge of it (according to the Murdoch press) in a situation that has been a relatively normal fiscal year.
I think Ian’s point is justified, whatever Bill’s shortcomings on where he is taking the club. Credit is due that we are not having to endure away games at Elland Road in League 1.
We would not have been in the Top 20 Rich List if it wasn’t for the Rooney windfall. However, we are now on the verge of it (according to the Murdoch press) in a situation that has been a relatively normal fiscal year.
I think Ian’s point is justified, whatever Bill’s shortcomings on where he is taking the club. Credit is due that we are not having to endure away games at Elland Road in League 1.
Jay Harris
5 Posted 15/02/2008 at 14:31:01
5 Posted 15/02/2008 at 14:31:01
As I understand it the "rich list" is based on turnover not wealth.
It didnt help that we closed/sold off the retail stores to JJB and did not have another Rooney to sell.
In reality our wealth (i.e. assets less liabilities)has been diminishing under the BK/Wyness partnership.They have sold off assets (the training ground site for one) and are now leasing from the council.
It amazes me that now we are doing much better on the pitch (despite the restrictions put on Moyes)that people cannot see through BK/Wyness as incompetent at best and deceiptful at worst.
I cant forgive BK for many things(KD, Fortress, NTL etc.) but the thing that really rankles me is the 20million plus that was "borrowed" from friends and EFC to buy off Johnson and secure his chairman?s position at EFC which immediately put us in serious debt and but for selling Rooney (who is our real saviour ? not BILL) might have put us where Leeds went.
Going back to the rich list, I think you need income of at least £65 million a year to sneak in and we may do that again this year with Uefa Cup and 4th place (fingers and legs crossed).
Onwards and upwards despite BK!!
It didnt help that we closed/sold off the retail stores to JJB and did not have another Rooney to sell.
In reality our wealth (i.e. assets less liabilities)has been diminishing under the BK/Wyness partnership.They have sold off assets (the training ground site for one) and are now leasing from the council.
It amazes me that now we are doing much better on the pitch (despite the restrictions put on Moyes)that people cannot see through BK/Wyness as incompetent at best and deceiptful at worst.
I cant forgive BK for many things(KD, Fortress, NTL etc.) but the thing that really rankles me is the 20million plus that was "borrowed" from friends and EFC to buy off Johnson and secure his chairman?s position at EFC which immediately put us in serious debt and but for selling Rooney (who is our real saviour ? not BILL) might have put us where Leeds went.
Going back to the rich list, I think you need income of at least £65 million a year to sneak in and we may do that again this year with Uefa Cup and 4th place (fingers and legs crossed).
Onwards and upwards despite BK!!
Mike Carlisle
6 Posted 15/02/2008 at 14:53:59
6 Posted 15/02/2008 at 14:53:59
Jay Harris, would you seriously have preferred us to have stayed with Johnson than BK come in and buy him out?
Matt Fearon
7 Posted 15/02/2008 at 15:03:24
7 Posted 15/02/2008 at 15:03:24
Gerard is right. Transfer funds are not included in the calculation and the list also does not take profitability into consideration.
Jay Harris
8 Posted 15/02/2008 at 15:01:55
8 Posted 15/02/2008 at 15:01:55
Mike that is my point!!
BK didnt buy him out.
Everton did!!
Even Johnson would have done better with the benefit of Moyes and the SKY and Rooney millions.
BK didnt buy him out.
Everton did!!
Even Johnson would have done better with the benefit of Moyes and the SKY and Rooney millions.
Mike Carlisle
9 Posted 15/02/2008 at 15:09:59
9 Posted 15/02/2008 at 15:09:59
Sorry Jay, can?t agree.
If we had stayed with Johnson, I believe we would have ended up in a far unhealthier position than we are now. I doubt we would even have got to the point were we would have benefitted from having Moyes, Rooney and the Sky millions.
The way I saw things going, if we had continued with Johnson, we would have been relegated well before Sky offered the Premier League the amounts they give now; Moyes would not have come to us; and Rooney would have been sold for about £3 million to a Premier League side to try and stop the huge difficulties we were in.
I?m an emotional agnostic with BK. Somethings I like about him, others I don?t, but one thing I feel is that we benefitted from him getting us out of Johnson's hands when he first stepped in to help.
If we had stayed with Johnson, I believe we would have ended up in a far unhealthier position than we are now. I doubt we would even have got to the point were we would have benefitted from having Moyes, Rooney and the Sky millions.
The way I saw things going, if we had continued with Johnson, we would have been relegated well before Sky offered the Premier League the amounts they give now; Moyes would not have come to us; and Rooney would have been sold for about £3 million to a Premier League side to try and stop the huge difficulties we were in.
I?m an emotional agnostic with BK. Somethings I like about him, others I don?t, but one thing I feel is that we benefitted from him getting us out of Johnson's hands when he first stepped in to help.
Jay Harris
10 Posted 15/02/2008 at 15:19:36
10 Posted 15/02/2008 at 15:19:36
Mike
I can't honestly say I was a fan of Johnson either but I do get upset about the way certain fans give BK credit when I see the man as a total fraudster.Everything out of the man's mouth is a lie.
He "spoke to Walter every day" about EFC!! It was only the fans who got Walter the boot and he recommended Moyes who BK didnt have a clue about at that point.
Then we have the Kings Dock fiasco which we could have had for £30 million!! But BK pissed the council and Paul Gregg off with his attitude. Fortress sports fund - "the cheque will be in the bank tomorrow"!!!The man is a compulsive bullshitter.
But I agree with you Johnson would not be my choice either. Give me a Steve Gibson/Randy Lerner anyday ? just not a BK.
I can't honestly say I was a fan of Johnson either but I do get upset about the way certain fans give BK credit when I see the man as a total fraudster.Everything out of the man's mouth is a lie.
He "spoke to Walter every day" about EFC!! It was only the fans who got Walter the boot and he recommended Moyes who BK didnt have a clue about at that point.
Then we have the Kings Dock fiasco which we could have had for £30 million!! But BK pissed the council and Paul Gregg off with his attitude. Fortress sports fund - "the cheque will be in the bank tomorrow"!!!The man is a compulsive bullshitter.
But I agree with you Johnson would not be my choice either. Give me a Steve Gibson/Randy Lerner anyday ? just not a BK.
Jay Campbell
11 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:01:04
11 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:01:04
Offensive material removed by moderator
Dave Wilson
12 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:01:12
12 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:01:12
Despite Sky throwing money at us, despite spending less than anyone else in the prem on players this season, despite getting bigger crowds than say Spurs - just outside the top 10 - we find ourselves saddled with the greatest debt in the clubs history
I cant believe people are comming on here praising the kings dock saboteur
I cant believe people are comming on here praising the kings dock saboteur
David Jones
13 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:31:46
13 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:31:46
Jay Harris, do you play for Accy Stanley??
Dave Whitwell
14 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:29:53
14 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:29:53
Guys, the term rich list is very poorly used he as the list is based purely on the Turnover the clubs generate hence, clubs with bigger grounds, champions league revenue, worldwide merchandising etc will always be at the top of the list despite their financial backing or potential debt!
Eddy Bundell
15 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:29:02
15 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:29:02
The name of this list is misleading, as mentioned by others, it’s based on revenue and not net income/profit. You can be in the top 20 but still lose a lot of money. This thing is meaningless to a club like Everton, it’s more meaningful for clubs like Real Madrid, Barca, MU, etc. I am really puzzled why a firm like Dellyod still publish such rubbish, shouldn’t they come out with something more meaningful like profit, asset base, return on asset, etc?
Alex May
16 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:24:48
16 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:24:48
I can?t comprehend how people can have such simplistic views. How does credit go to BK & co, for doing little more than banking a cheque from Sky every year? Wyness has sold every fixed asset that he could and because of outsourcing everything, our turnover fell to £52M last year. His original target for last year was £65M!
The rich list in itself is largely meaningless. How can our club genuinely be called rich when it loses money every year and has spiralling debts? Rather than looking to give credit to BK/Wyness for doing nothing, you should be blaming them for the state of our balance sheet. After all, that is something over which they have control.
The rich list in itself is largely meaningless. How can our club genuinely be called rich when it loses money every year and has spiralling debts? Rather than looking to give credit to BK/Wyness for doing nothing, you should be blaming them for the state of our balance sheet. After all, that is something over which they have control.
Alex Pat
17 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:41:49
17 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:41:49
The list means nothing. Everton have been mismanaged since the days of John Moores, and even he was not all that good... Remember the new main stand! For the want of a few extra quid, we built a new stand with obstructed views instead of a cantilever stand, then Mr Moores would not stump up the funds to buy Peter Shilton which would have virtually guaranteed at least 2 more championships in the 70s .
So... we are where we are because we don?t have the money to run the club, we have to leave it to others who all have their own agenda. Until we own the club ?a la? Barcelona we either like it or lump it.
So... we are where we are because we don?t have the money to run the club, we have to leave it to others who all have their own agenda. Until we own the club ?a la? Barcelona we either like it or lump it.
Mike Galley
18 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:00:46
18 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:00:46
Hi all. I’m a first time poster, although i have been a regular visitor to the website for quite a while. Anyway, the reason I’m posting is to ask if anyone is aware of the clubs financial position with regards to debt, assets etc. I myself am not, but I am interested/concerned about this subject.
Ian Ankers
19 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:48:17
19 Posted 15/02/2008 at 16:48:17
Some of the negative points raised I am actually agreeing with. You raise some very good points and I do at times question BK?s honesty.
Mike Carlisle wrote:
I?m an emotional agnostic with BK. Somethings I like about him, others I don?t, but one thing I feel is that we benefitted from him getting us out of Johnson?s hands when he first stepped in to help.
Cheers Mike, thats a better way of explaining how I feel than anything I could have come up with!
We do have to look at assets as well. Arteta, Cahill, Yakubu, Johnson, Lescott, Yobo etc. are all very good assets to have from a footballing and financial perspective and none have been forced to move on due to a financial situation. The revolving door has been closed, and decent players are being paid for each season in addition to the ones we already have, am I wrong for giving credit to BK for that? Maybe I am?
As I said in the thread, rightly or wrongly I believe we are much better off Financially and as a club on the whole since BK took over from Johnson and so I genuinely ask the question to those more ?in the know? than myself:
Who do we thank for that?
Mike Carlisle wrote:
I?m an emotional agnostic with BK. Somethings I like about him, others I don?t, but one thing I feel is that we benefitted from him getting us out of Johnson?s hands when he first stepped in to help.
Cheers Mike, thats a better way of explaining how I feel than anything I could have come up with!
We do have to look at assets as well. Arteta, Cahill, Yakubu, Johnson, Lescott, Yobo etc. are all very good assets to have from a footballing and financial perspective and none have been forced to move on due to a financial situation. The revolving door has been closed, and decent players are being paid for each season in addition to the ones we already have, am I wrong for giving credit to BK for that? Maybe I am?
As I said in the thread, rightly or wrongly I believe we are much better off Financially and as a club on the whole since BK took over from Johnson and so I genuinely ask the question to those more ?in the know? than myself:
Who do we thank for that?
Jay Harris
20 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:05:28
20 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:05:28
David Jones
No - but I used to.
How did you know?
Did you used to play that league too?
No - but I used to.
How did you know?
Did you used to play that league too?
Steve Roberts
21 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:16:09
21 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:16:09
Mike Galley, if you?re interested enough you can download a copy of Everton?s annual financial statements comprising profit & loss account, balance sheet etc for a small fee from the Companies House website.
Jay Harris
22 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:11:42
22 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:11:42
Ian Ankers.
The credit for signing Arteta,Cahill etc rests firmly with Moyes who has worked his tripe off looking for bargains and "the right attitude" in bringing in "bargain basement? players because of the limitations of our board.
As someone said earlier they only have to bank the money from sky once a year.
What have they done with what is supposed to be their real purpose i.e. better marketing and organisation of the club.
They have even left the new stadium development in the hands of outsiders (Tesco developers) but hey lets not go near that one.
What about the new investment that Bill is seeking every day?? Oh I guess the cheque will be in the bank again tomorrow so lets not worry about improving EFC at corporate level.
The credit for signing Arteta,Cahill etc rests firmly with Moyes who has worked his tripe off looking for bargains and "the right attitude" in bringing in "bargain basement? players because of the limitations of our board.
As someone said earlier they only have to bank the money from sky once a year.
What have they done with what is supposed to be their real purpose i.e. better marketing and organisation of the club.
They have even left the new stadium development in the hands of outsiders (Tesco developers) but hey lets not go near that one.
What about the new investment that Bill is seeking every day?? Oh I guess the cheque will be in the bank again tomorrow so lets not worry about improving EFC at corporate level.
Gavin Ramejkis
23 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:11:34
23 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:11:34
Like it or not the only two things keeping Everton where they are at the moment are DM and Sky, BK and KW couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery but will claim they did it all. Despite being openly hostile towards BK and KW and in the past DM when his errors cost matches I would not base this on my hatred of BK and KW but rather on the facts of generated investment - none of which has come from either; KW has cloak and daggered a quick return from outsorucing which is a piss poor business plan for very short term gain and long term loss and BK’s scandalous 24/7, the Sky money is paying for the club and DMs increasing success in the team finishing higher in the league with its subsequent Sky bonus.
Jay Harris
24 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:26:57
24 Posted 15/02/2008 at 17:26:57
Gavin
welcome back.
It?s hard work trying to make the point that we are succeeding despite the board not because of them.
Happy days
welcome back.
It?s hard work trying to make the point that we are succeeding despite the board not because of them.
Happy days
Brian Waring
25 Posted 15/02/2008 at 18:11:38
25 Posted 15/02/2008 at 18:11:38
Spot on Gavin. Also, How can you trust someone who say’s we are going to get something virtually free, only to then find out we could be saddled with another (on top of our aready large debt ) £80m + more debt? Also, if BK is a die hard blue, why didn’t he stand up to agent Johnson, when he was fucking us about? Wasn’t BK a member of the board then?
Baz Rice
26 Posted 15/02/2008 at 19:16:02
26 Posted 15/02/2008 at 19:16:02
Only one league counts and thats the League one...
Barcodes and Spurs miles above us on the rich list, but both would swap in a flash to be 4th in Prem....
Money dont always buy you Honey.....
Barcodes and Spurs miles above us on the rich list, but both would swap in a flash to be 4th in Prem....
Money dont always buy you Honey.....
Toby Dodds
27 Posted 15/02/2008 at 20:17:05
27 Posted 15/02/2008 at 20:17:05
Jay Harris, you are a complete fool, go back to your can of Kestral that you clearly open for breakfast every morning, put on you best tracksuit and fuck off. What do you do for a living? Probably nothing in the financial sector, so how can you critisise?
Jay Harris
28 Posted 15/02/2008 at 21:51:39
28 Posted 15/02/2008 at 21:51:39
Toby Dodds, FYI I am a qualified accountant and a longstanding blue so feel qualified and entitled to say exactly what I?ve said. You on the other hand are the FOOL with nothing to add to the debate apart from schoolboy tantrums.
I can understand idiots like you faliing for Bill?s bullshit. It's the other educated blues who I can't understand but there again I think, unlike you, that everyone is entitled to an opinion and my opinion of you is you?re a smartassed little shithouse who can come on here and tell people to fuck off but wouldn't dare do it face to face.
I can understand idiots like you faliing for Bill?s bullshit. It's the other educated blues who I can't understand but there again I think, unlike you, that everyone is entitled to an opinion and my opinion of you is you?re a smartassed little shithouse who can come on here and tell people to fuck off but wouldn't dare do it face to face.
Jay Harris
29 Posted 15/02/2008 at 22:09:14
29 Posted 15/02/2008 at 22:09:14
Brian Waring
BK has been a member of the board since the decline from the late 80s and was good pals with Johnson until the first buyout battle but then they kissed and made up again afterwards.
Its a shame the Moore?s clan were so disinterested in football that they sold out for a pittance and made Johnson and BK a lot richer than they should have been given their respective poor performances as chairmen.
BK has been a member of the board since the decline from the late 80s and was good pals with Johnson until the first buyout battle but then they kissed and made up again afterwards.
Its a shame the Moore?s clan were so disinterested in football that they sold out for a pittance and made Johnson and BK a lot richer than they should have been given their respective poor performances as chairmen.
Derek Thomas
30 Posted 16/02/2008 at 03:56:18
30 Posted 16/02/2008 at 03:56:18
Our last appearance in the rich list was the equivalent of the mirror they used to show the Emperor his new clothes
And this next one will be much the same.
As some one else said
Not BECAUSE of Bill and Bully but DESPITE them
And this next one will be much the same.
As some one else said
Not BECAUSE of Bill and Bully but DESPITE them
Ian Ankers
31 Posted 16/02/2008 at 11:50:51
31 Posted 16/02/2008 at 11:50:51
Have to say, you lot have changed my opinion on this one! A lot of constructive critisism on this thread which is nice to see. I now see it for how it really is!
My gratitude to Bill and Co. has diminished somewhat!
My gratitude to Bill and Co. has diminished somewhat!
Neil McKinney
32 Posted 16/02/2008 at 12:51:15
32 Posted 16/02/2008 at 12:51:15
Forget the rich list as it is a load of bollox. As many have pointed out above it has nothing to do with profit and therefore is meaningless. If Abramovich wanted all the money he has pumped in to Chelsea back, then they wouldn’t even be in the top 50!
Remember Leeds? Well as was pointed out in the same Sky report, if Man Utd didn’t make the Champions League two seasons running they’d be in serious shit! Football is now a game when you are never far from bankrupcy. The sword of Damocles hangs over the head of every club and Leeds was the perfect example of this. It doesn’t matter how many people you get through the gates, if you want to play with the big teams you have to invest big in playing staff, then if you don’t get into the CL you’re fucked!
BK and KW may be idiots, but the rich list is not a stick to beat them with.
COYB!!
Remember Leeds? Well as was pointed out in the same Sky report, if Man Utd didn’t make the Champions League two seasons running they’d be in serious shit! Football is now a game when you are never far from bankrupcy. The sword of Damocles hangs over the head of every club and Leeds was the perfect example of this. It doesn’t matter how many people you get through the gates, if you want to play with the big teams you have to invest big in playing staff, then if you don’t get into the CL you’re fucked!
BK and KW may be idiots, but the rich list is not a stick to beat them with.
COYB!!
Peter Creer
33 Posted 16/02/2008 at 13:05:07
33 Posted 16/02/2008 at 13:05:07
The rich list means nothing in the real world of football. Winning does. Let?s admit that since DM took over he has been supported by the Board and because of his astute buys we are moving from strength to strength. The success we have had in the Uefa Cup this year was based on the learning that was done during the failure in Europe in 2005.
We are a much better team, in a much stronger position than before. Like it has been said before....who wants to be in the Top 20 if you have to be Newcastle. Continuing to progress like we have will put us there....but let?s remember that being in 4th is more important and getting into Europe consistently is the key to future growth.
Come on you blues!
We are a much better team, in a much stronger position than before. Like it has been said before....who wants to be in the Top 20 if you have to be Newcastle. Continuing to progress like we have will put us there....but let?s remember that being in 4th is more important and getting into Europe consistently is the key to future growth.
Come on you blues!
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But when you look at the numbers, the only reason we actually made the rich list was that we sold our prize asset, one Wayne Rooney...