This is a hard one, during his loan period he done really well, he probably only had Artetta to compare against, but now I believe we have a workhorse and clever footballer in the shape of the diminitve Pienaar, which i think we are going to compare Manny against, (why not compare) but I sense the europhia over him coming back is waining, and unless he pulls his finger out, unfortunately I think we save the money and look elsewhere. He has to be near peak fitness, but something is not quite right he is simply not impressing enough for us to take the plunge and sign him.

The whole Fernandes deals are bizarre, it’s hard to place where Mannys head must be since ditching the Toffees last season. After all the third party strings, to sign a six-year contract with Valencia, with a reportedly outlandish release clause (£40m) and then get sent out on loan to a club he’d just turned down, yet played impressively for... it’s like his third party owners were hoping he’d continue his good form and wait for yet another clubs put a big bid in for him.

I’d like to see him impress, but we don’t have the money and the whole deal seems murky. What little we do have in the kitty I hope moysie has already negotiated to sign Pienarr before Kevin Keegan wades into the equation, seems just like the player not so super-kev would want.

Before his return I said he is vastly overated and nothing he has done in the interim has caused me to change my mind.
For that kind of money I do not expect a player to flit in and out of the action.
What I would ecpect is a dominating all action midfield Dynamo.
Manny is most definately nothing of the sort.

Whilst I fully agree he has yet to look like his former self, I'm willing to wait till the end of the season to have a go at him. Don't forget it wasn't long ago people on here were calling for Jagielka to be sold as a flop and now he is looking our best player for the last month or so.

Fernandes has a lot of people to convince after what he did back in the summer-myself included-but I honestly believe that if he is given a chance until the end of the season he will come good. I think that potentially he is the best footballer that we have in our side-Arteta included. Think back to the Arsenal game, surrounded by three of them, and emerging with the ball, making Fabregas look like an amateur, the Manu Utd smasher- you dont become a crap player overnight and I want us to be the side that can make him realise his full potential because if he does come good, he will help greatly when it comes down to the nitty gritty.
How many times have we been undone by a touch of class from the opposition? Fernandes may not be on the pace at the moment, but he is class. And for me it is about time we started to add class rather than endeavour and guts.

Well there had been talk that Borussia Dortmund had upped Pienaar's value to near £8M so I guess its only going to be a case of one from him or Fernandes and I know right now who I favour. Pienaar has proved he would not be out of place in Arsenal's passing side and has a fantastic enthusiastic engine. I will wait until the end of the season to judge Fernandes but he needs to start coming up with some match-winning contributions. We can all see he has the ability and I only hope he uses it to his benefit.

Tony, it was stated that the fee had been agreed when Pienaar signed on loan of £2.5M, which is great business. As for Manny I?d like to give him the rest of the season to pass judgement as he did look class last time, but then he had a bit more time to build his fitness before playing. I agree you don?t turn into a bad player overnight so let?s wait before we pass judgement.

Whenever he is in possession of the ball you can tell he is a quality player.

Yes, he has been giving the ball away a bit recently but there are 2 things that contribute to this:

1. When you are trying to play the creative/killer pass you are trying to play the harder pass so there is a bigger chance you will give the ball away. Next time he gives the ball away look at what he was trying to do. People moan about not playing creative football but then also moan about people giving the ball away when they are trying to be creative.

2. He is on a higher wavelength to alot of the players he’s had to play wth recently. Alot of the players don’t have the footballing brain to realise what he is going to do, like when we had Beardsley.

With Yabubu back and Pienaar to come both of these things should improve with time.

Manny has underperformed my expectations so far. Given he has been playing with a groin problem like Arteta’s I wonder if this caused the dip in crossing quality etc that has been evident from Arteta and Fernandes of late? Obviously, I’d like to see a fit and injury free Manny in the side ASAP so we can see if he is as good as we hope. Hopefully the issues in Valancia last week e.g. legal problems and quarter of million euro fine reported etc. won’t affect his form for us.

My opinion, a matter of attitude, bags of skill and ability, but to me Fernanades looks a bit of a sulk at times, not sure why but I feel he has not lived up to the expectations his country expected, I feel he is allowing this to effect his game. Benfica and Valencia have both released him, the ability is there, you see it in flashes, but mental side seems to be lacking, sort that out and you will see a graet all round player, bit more dedication lad and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

I dont understand the Manny bashing. In my view, only Arteta can rival him in terms of looking truly comfortable on the ball. The rest of our midfield with the exception of Pienaar, cant get rid of it quick enough. Thats why Andy Johnson is spending all game chasing down the corner flags. Its the easiest ball in the game, the hopeful lob into the channel. Fernandes looks first for the pass into feet and ok sometimes it doesnt get there but least its positive. The first 10 times Osman received the ball on Thursday night he lost the ball 6 times, made one square pass and 3 backward passes. That’s why I would have Fernandes every time - but to see the best of him the midfield quality around him needs to improve.

I raved over Manny last season but i agree he has went down in terms of quality but hes still got a genaration in the game so I can tell you for certain he will be good wether it will be for us or valencia.

I dont agree with what your saying Mike i believe when we have th full squad back to fitness you’ve got Arteta Manny Osman (or Cahill) and Pienarr but i hope we sign Manny if we do I cant see a bright future for him.

I've read some threads, saying Cahill and Carsleys dip in form recently. But its no coincidence, it's since the lone wolf in midfield, Manny arrived. When I see him play, he is a lone wolf in midfield.
Some say it's because he is playing out of position. But hang on, what happens when we play Leon Osman out of position on the wing? He gets nothing but stick. Even though Leon gives 100% effort.

Another factor is 442 or 451. We have the midfield players ONLY for 451. Cahill & Ossie are much poorer in a 442 where they can spend less time on freedom to go forward (the stronger part of their game). The same MAY be so for Manny, give him a good run in a Carsley, Manny, Cahill, Arteta, Peanuts/Ossie midfield & we may yet see the best of him.
Problem is of course we have 4 top class forwards.......now if only we could play 452!

Very sad but on his return MF has not cut the mustard. I too was really hoping we would have the quality of his play from last year to watch again.

Maybe Valencia have been right not to selct him. Someone on another thread was having a go at Cahil but MF has been much worse.

At the moment I would rather spend money on Pienaar than MF as I think that he and Osman work really well together.

Let us hope MF comes good and we can see that skill and quality that we saw last season.

RE John Pickles - I think that you are nearly there!
Everyone seems happy with the 3 centre halfs: Yobo, Lescott and Jagielka. And (next to every) everybody slates the full backs. So why not look at switching to a 3-5-2? 3 on form centre backs, the 2 holding midfielders, 3 attack midfielders and the 2 up front - even if 1 of the ones up front is Cahill where he plays in a 451 most of the time anyway) to accomodate Ossie.
Howard; Yobo, Jagielka, Lescott; Arteta, Carsley, Fernandes, Osman/Cahill, Piennar; Yakubu, 1 from 3.
I know this sounds very FM - it is just an observation based on a team that seemingly play better with the 5 man midfield and have 3 good cb’s and poorer fullbacks.

Plus any one of the back 3 could be made captain - maybe an improvement everywhere!

Pretty much the same thread that I got slated for daring to write recently! Now a few games down the line, more of you are asking questions of Manny!

For me, no, he’s not going to make it and certainly not with the price tag he’s currently got attached to him. Pienaar has to be Moyesy’s first tie up in the summer. manny, I can take him or leave him

Is it just me, or does Manny just look as if he couldn’t give a fuck, when he is playing?

For fecks sake the lad is 21, was carted off to Valencia at the last min, where he endured racism, being left out of the team after being played in 6 different positions and was often a scapegoat for the fans after being beat.

He's then whisked back to Liverpool straight into a Carling Cup semi and is now readjusting his fitness and football to his new surroundings. I bet this guy's all over the place ? not to mention his fitness isn't 100% yet.

Look at United: the likes of Nani etc have taken time to settle.

All in all, I?m glad we got Manny ? I?d take a misfiring Fernandes to a lot of other so-called quality midfielders.

Personally, he appears uninterested this time around from what I?ve seen of him thus far. He was pretty ropey against Brann - apart from a cameo dribble. That said he was playing out of position.
Think we should reserve judegment ?til the end of the season. Maybe in a full strength side with Arteta & Piennar (& match fit!) we can get the best out of him. The boy?s talented.. just doesn?t look too fazed right now..

As for the transfer fee.. I reckon our 4th place should take care of the £10m Valencia will want to take him off their hands.. ;o)

Whilst I agree that Manny hasn?t yet set the world alight this time around I?d still rather have him in our midfield than not. The lad can tackle, dribble, is quick and pass the ball not to mention shoot! I know this sounds like Carsley?s qualities!!!!

I think we should all get behind him and reserve judgement on him until the end of the season. He?s now only just starting to play regularly and it will take him a bit of time but he showed his class in the liitle cameo of skill that put Joleon away to set up our second goal against Brann. The other thing I like about him is that he always wants the ball and tries to play the right pass.

Let's not judge to quickly as I remember defending Pienaar early on this season when others claimed he wasn?t up to much and look how good he has turned out to be! Let's not go down the RS?s route of claiming every player we sign is ?world class? and then whingeing when they don?t perform. We are EVERTONIANS and we are much better than that!

Nil Satis ....

Baines - too puny, Pienaar -too lightweight , Jagielka - championship player. You bunch of fickle twats! You’ll be licking his arse again as soon as he starts performing! Impatient bastards! If you dont think he’s that arsed look at him when Osman’s strike hit the net against Brann... he loved it!

Poppycock! Give the guy a little while to settle. The standards were set by Fernandes himself which is why it is disappointing not to see him replicate his twinkle toes and powerful shot every game. But for Christ sake, fuck off with your ?judgement? until the season has ended.

Once again, Toffeeweb punters judge too soon. Fernandes has 4 games, some while unfit, the last one carrying an injury. So get rid.

The guy is SPECIAL. Go look at the YouTube videos. Look at the inch-perfect pass he put through to AJ in the Spurs game. If AJ had been any good that night, the pass alone would have given us 3 points!

This guy is a level above the midfielders we have at the moment. Please, one of you come on and say we should buy a carthorse like Downing for £8m instead. Remember he may be off-form, but Class is permanent.

Go back to Valencia now, while he’s off form and offer them £8m and snatch their hand off if they say yes. This bloke will be an absolute star and we need players like him if we have the desire to step up to the big boys.

Never understood what the fuss was about? I wouldn?t have had him back after he shat on us and he was rank against Brann.
If he was available as a free on no more than £1 mill than OK as a squad player.
Someone like Sidwell or even Steve Hunt would be a much better bet.

I’ve said it time and time again Evertonians would rather see players like Carsley in midfield passing sideways and backwards and say he’s had a good game whereas someone like Fernandes who has genuine quality, is a young player and can only get better and tries things on the pitch that I haven’t seen since the great 80s is not good enough.

Thats not me. I realize that if we want to make the step up into champions league football, if we want to see the football improve and we want to become a better team then you buy players like Fernandes. He’s genuine quality and is only going to get better.

I really do believe that people just don’t want him to succeed at this club. I watched the Brann game again the day after and I was surprised with the comments coming his way. After Jagielka, Yakubu and Osman he was our best player. He gave the ball away 3 times in the whole game and looked one of the more likely players to create. And thats being honest. Thats was my assessment after following his game closely in the Brann match.

People have gone on about him continually giving the ball away but if you look at his passing stats thats not the case at all. This is what his passing has been according to the Telegraph:

Chelsea: He made 43 passes completing 81%
Spurs: He made 41 passes completing 83%
Blackburn: He made 27 passes completing 69%
Reading: He made 16 passes completing 75%

In all of those games only the Blackburn game you could say his passing was consistently poor. In all the others his passing was more than acceptable. He was actually our best passer in the Spurs game and second best passer after Arteta in the Chelsea game. I couldn’t get the stats for the Brann game but I’m sure again they’ll be good. People seem to make more of a deal of it when Fernandes loses the ball but if you look past the bias you have towards him then you’ll see his passing hasn’t been as bad as your making out.

How I see it is the Football was poor before he came hear. Its been poor since Yakubu and Pienaar left for Africa. If he had come into settled side with Pienaar, Cahill and Arteta alongside him and in our favored 4-5-1 formation with Yakubu leading the line then I’m pretty sure his form would have been a lot better. Hopefully with our full squad back and playing our best formation he’ll show what we all know he’s capable of.

What people have to realize it it does take time to settle in. Yakubu, Pienaar and Jagielka prove my point. All three looked out of sorts when they first came yet now are three of the first names on our team sheet. It took Pienaar at least 7 games to get into rhythm whereas Yakubu didn’t really look the part until the Derby County/Birmingham game which was around his 8th start. Jagielka obviously took a lot longer and now look at him. Fernandes has only played 5 games and in those games he’s been injured and trying to catch his fitness. With potentially 20 games left including the Uefa cup I’d expect him to prove a lot of the fans wrong.

Potentially I don’t see a better midfielder at this club and even at this level at 21 years old he’s one of the better mid fielder’s at the club. Only Arteta rivals him for natural ability. Don’t get me wrong Pienaar and Osman are excellent players and everyone knows I’m a big fan of both but Fernandes is on a different level in my opinion and is only going to get better. 8 million which is the reported price would be a snip. If where looking at players like Richardson and Chopra going for 6 million, Scott Parker going for 7.5 million and Reo-coker going for 8.5 million then Fernandes is worth that amount of money.

Knee-jerk reactions here folks.
Fernandes has not sparkled yet but we should bear in mind:

He has played little football this season
He was playing at left-mid on Wednesday
He was carrying a groin injury

Perhaps Fernandes won’t fulfill expectations (due to personality rather than talent) but let’s judge this over 20 games - not 4.

See this was why I was never all that disappointed when he went elsewhere in the summer.

He’s got potential and can be useful at times but a £12 million midfielder???? No Chance.

Dutch, who would you have rather have had? Someone who would come and for a similar price?

How I see it is you invest in talent. People like Leighton Baines and Manuel Fernandes may not be 6 million or 8 million players now but they have the potential to match that tag and even better it.

Stunned!

Dutch what are you talking about? 4 games! 4 bloody games!

He is extremely unfit, injured and has not yet picked up the pace of the Premiership. In my estimation (once fit) he is like for like with Anderson.

If you know your football!

I agree that since his "comeback" he hasn’t set the world alight . However, he has about 20 games to show what he is capable of and return to the form and confidence that he showed last term.

I for one hope that this all happens much sooner rather than later, as we need him, and everyone, fit and confident coming into this crucial period. Until he has played another 6-10 games for us the "jury is still out". Personally I feel we have missed Stevee P’ as much as the Yak and the sooner he is back, the sooner we will start firing again.

I remember some bloke called Yakubu who took a few games to settle in. Who would sell him now?

Give it time.

Lets leave our judgements till the end of the season, I think its far to soon to criticise him. Give him a chance.

Like most of you say. He’s on loan, just give him ’till the end of the season and decide then. Really can’t make anything out of those first matches since his match fitness wasn’t great at all.

Manny is still only 21/22 years old; Osman didnt get a game til he was 23. My point being in time the lad will come good cos we can all see that as a technician he is streets ahead of all our midfielder from Ateta and Penaar. If we let him go it will be a se of letting one of Europe's most promising youngsters slip through the net. Give him a chance.

Guys...Manny has been thrown in the deep end since his return due to injuries/ANC. In a perfect world, I?m sure Moyes would have had him sitting on the bench for the majority of games he's started and slowly bed him in. As it is, his performances haven?t been of the quality we expect but I?m sure he will only get better as his fitness improves.

Manny is a cut above....end of!!!

Is it really that hard to see that when he sprays the ball around he actually has a quality footballing brain. Ok, so maybe a few passes have gone astray, consistency will come. But he?s still a kid and understands the game amazingly well. Combine this with his natural talent and technical ability, and moyes giving him more of a heart, and we?ve got an outstanding, soon to be complete midfielder!!

Had a dream last night, was watching the 2nd leg of the Brann game.

Ball is belted in at opposition keeper, spills left, and Manny brought it down with one leg, approached the keeper, and as the keeper comes out, he lobs it over his head into the net.

Dunno why had the dream, but yeah, if anyone wants an outside bet on first goal this week ;)

I was looking forward to seeing him return again when we re-signed him but the problem that I have with him is he doesn?t seem interested at times and people have gone on about his fitness but he has been here a few weeks now and he should be fit by now. It appears that he doesn?t have any natural fitness to fall back on. I am sure that when Peanuts plays again after his injury, he will show how naturally fit he is and will carry on where he left off; I can?t see that from Fernandes at the moment, but I still hope that he can reproduce some of the performances he did last time.