The Mail Bag
More than a bit too touchy
Comments (36)
I wonder what the Nigerian FA thinks about Yakubu's late return from the African Cup? Has it offered any form of compensation or suggested reprobation or censure. The Nigerian FA was responsible for Yakubu and he was under its control from the moment he left England up to his return.
Perhaps such things are acceptable to the Nigerian FA? It is a pity the Nigerians are not so sensitive to the problem one of its players created for Everton.
Dick Fearon, Posted 24/02/2008 at 02:50:27
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Gavin Ramejkis
2 Posted 24/02/2008 at 07:48:58
2 Posted 24/02/2008 at 07:48:58
Or you could send them an email claiming to control a £1Bn pound estate that needs someone to help them move from the country and ask them for their bank details for a small slice.........
It is a globally accepted fact that a proportion of the Nigerian income is made up from scams, its just a way of life in that and several other African nations. A throw away statement even if in bad taste shouldnt cause international uproar. Would be quite funny if all european clubs suddenly requested full disclosure of birth certificates of all Nigerian players as I’m sure there are a few "porkies" out there.
It is a globally accepted fact that a proportion of the Nigerian income is made up from scams, its just a way of life in that and several other African nations. A throw away statement even if in bad taste shouldnt cause international uproar. Would be quite funny if all european clubs suddenly requested full disclosure of birth certificates of all Nigerian players as I’m sure there are a few "porkies" out there.
Ant Gird
3 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:06:13
3 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:06:13
I agree with you Peter. It?s really not worth a fight and it was a bit out of place for Moyes to say that. Although he means nothing by it he should just admit his mistake and move on.
I assumed Moyes was meaning that Nigerians are often so big and well-built that it?s hard to believe they are so young sometimes. Maybe I got it wrong.
I assumed Moyes was meaning that Nigerians are often so big and well-built that it?s hard to believe they are so young sometimes. Maybe I got it wrong.
Ken Bartley
4 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:07:33
4 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:07:33
As a local authority employee, I can tell you for certain that within my field of work,Moyes’ comment would have been taken for racism and sat on from a great height.By now he would almost certainly be suspended from duty and awaiting a disciplinary hearing.Just another case of one rule for football and another for the rest of the world!Seems there is a still a lot of ’kicking out ’to do in our national game!
Neil McKinney
5 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:13:26
5 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:13:26
He will have to officially apologise albeit for remarks that most will have not even noticed.
The truth hurts eh?
The truth hurts eh?
Tony Wendle
6 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:16:00
6 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:16:00
Couldn’t agree with you more,Ken.Yet another example of the institutional racism that continues to exist throughout our game and sadly at our own club.Moyes shouldn’t even be thinking like that let alone saying it!
John Whiting
7 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:37:26
7 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:37:26
I abhor Racism in all its forms but after all Moyes is a bloody Scotsman!
Chris Taggart
8 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:44:22
8 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:44:22
Maybe you should have asked for him to be beaten on the arse with a rolled up Guardian as well ken,
Moyes's coment was simply a tounge in chief reference to how Nigerian players in particular sometimes lie about their true age.
His coment ended with "if that is his age he?s still got a good few years ahead of him", suggesting that Nigerian players can continue to play at the highest level despite their advancing years.
A complement if ever i saw one!
Moyes's coment was simply a tounge in chief reference to how Nigerian players in particular sometimes lie about their true age.
His coment ended with "if that is his age he?s still got a good few years ahead of him", suggesting that Nigerian players can continue to play at the highest level despite their advancing years.
A complement if ever i saw one!
Brian Noble
9 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:59:51
9 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:59:51
What a fuss over a totally tongue in cheek remark. But grist to the mill for the ?seeking to be offended? mob in our midst. No doubt Moyes was thinking back to our old goalscoring ?star? Bakayoko who, when subjected to a bone scan, turned out to be ten years older than his birth certificate indicated!
Tom Hughes
10 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:51:05
10 Posted 24/02/2008 at 09:51:05
To call it racism is political correctness gone mad,ill-advised perhaps, but hardly instititional racism. I have visited most coastal african countries, and corruption is absolutely rife. Nigeria is probably the most prolific, it’s almost a way of life. This isn’t racism, just well documented fact. Try getting out of Lagos airport without someone trying to seriously rip you off, and that’s just the officials. Personally, I have probably took far more serious and disparaging stick from workmates for my scouse roots, I never feel the need to play the racism/political correctness card.
Brian Richardson
11 Posted 24/02/2008 at 10:09:58
11 Posted 24/02/2008 at 10:09:58
I think some people need to stand back from this issue and face a few facts. 10 years ago, I read an article pointing out that only TWO players in a Nigerian squad of 21 were found to be the age specified on their birth certificate.
How, exactly, is it racism to point out that Nigeria struggles to keep track of birth dates? When 90% of a Nigerian squad are older than official figures suggest, it is probably fair to say there is a problem.
How, exactly, is it racism to point out that Nigeria struggles to keep track of birth dates? When 90% of a Nigerian squad are older than official figures suggest, it is probably fair to say there is a problem.
Alex May
12 Posted 24/02/2008 at 10:11:33
12 Posted 24/02/2008 at 10:11:33
All Ken has done with his post is highlight the problems with local authorities. I think their pettiness has clearly become ingrained.
Moyes’ remarks are ill-advised as, before the ACN, the Nigerians co-operated in a way that shamed the South Africans. However, to say his comments are racist is nonsense. Making a comment without any foundation may be considered such, but this one is not.
The Yak may only be 25, but he certainly has a ’lived-in’ face if that is the case.
Moyes’ remarks are ill-advised as, before the ACN, the Nigerians co-operated in a way that shamed the South Africans. However, to say his comments are racist is nonsense. Making a comment without any foundation may be considered such, but this one is not.
The Yak may only be 25, but he certainly has a ’lived-in’ face if that is the case.
Nelson Aja
13 Posted 24/02/2008 at 11:01:01
13 Posted 24/02/2008 at 11:01:01
As the son of a Nigerean, I have to admit to a little smile over this fuss. My father faught in the Second World War although when he came to England to train and subsequently work in the NHS in 1978 his birth certificate showed his DOB as 1-1-46! He always told me that the date was the registration of his birth rather than his birthdate, the downside being that if he had survived he would have had to wait into his eighties to have drawn his pension!
I think very few Africans will have been offended by Mr Moyes's remark although it will be fair game for the PC monitors who do so much to HARM to racial relationships.
I think very few Africans will have been offended by Mr Moyes's remark although it will be fair game for the PC monitors who do so much to HARM to racial relationships.
Juan Roman
14 Posted 24/02/2008 at 11:28:14
14 Posted 24/02/2008 at 11:28:14
Of course Moyes didn?t mean anything by it but it most definitely is a form of racism. How about if Brann Bergen mentioned that "The Brits were coming to town and I hope they don?t rape & pillage our people and overthrow us like they?ve done down through history, chuckle chucke." Or how about "I hope those National Front fans don?t ruin the game for everyone else, ha ha." Hilarous isn?t it. Moyes should genuinely apologise for his small error. And don?t be giving me this PC gone mad bullshit ? a licence do do what you want.
Adrian Berrington
15 Posted 24/02/2008 at 11:38:15
15 Posted 24/02/2008 at 11:38:15
Moyes should know that Scots are not good at humour ? just look at Gordon Brown?s purile attempts to be funny.
Oh shit!, Juan, I just realised that?s a racist remark!
Oh shit!, Juan, I just realised that?s a racist remark!
Neil Scott
16 Posted 24/02/2008 at 11:26:42
16 Posted 24/02/2008 at 11:26:42
Well said Nelson.
This is a very clear case of blinkered opportunism where the Nigerian equivalent of Ken or Tony has dismissed context, perspective and common sense in order to make an example of someone they could never possibly match up or relate to because they ’work’ for a government office.
This is a very clear case of blinkered opportunism where the Nigerian equivalent of Ken or Tony has dismissed context, perspective and common sense in order to make an example of someone they could never possibly match up or relate to because they ’work’ for a government office.
Steve Wolfe
17 Posted 24/02/2008 at 12:25:30
17 Posted 24/02/2008 at 12:25:30
Ken, Tony and Juan ? I am embarassed that you support Everton! I'm glad Nelson put it into perspective, you people cause more harm than good, total idiots!!!
Muhammed Ganiy
18 Posted 24/02/2008 at 10:18:55
18 Posted 24/02/2008 at 10:18:55
It’s unacceptable as a joke or not. Moyes went over the bar on this.
Because you are all brits and read several rumour on age discrepancies in Africa gives you no right to question other players.
His comments have sparked off questions on Nigerians and its players.
And someone where simply said Nigeria has a record of all sort with regards crime, cheats et al? So what about England? you talk about other people’s problems and wrap yours under a beautful cultural idiosyncrasis?
If Mr Moyes doesn’t have a proof of what he claims or the accussed Nigerians then he should face the legal consequences.
It’s still a shame that some people here still feels he has not done anything wrong, certainly you are not different from a myopic coach who’s leading your team.
Because you are all brits and read several rumour on age discrepancies in Africa gives you no right to question other players.
His comments have sparked off questions on Nigerians and its players.
And someone where simply said Nigeria has a record of all sort with regards crime, cheats et al? So what about England? you talk about other people’s problems and wrap yours under a beautful cultural idiosyncrasis?
If Mr Moyes doesn’t have a proof of what he claims or the accussed Nigerians then he should face the legal consequences.
It’s still a shame that some people here still feels he has not done anything wrong, certainly you are not different from a myopic coach who’s leading your team.
Sean Berry
19 Posted 24/02/2008 at 13:14:21
19 Posted 24/02/2008 at 13:14:21
It saddens me that so many Evertonians should seek to gloss over this racist gaffe by our manager. It merely proves that the progress football claims to have made in kicking this evil out of the game is limited to the PR spin of a few well-placed tee-shirts.
If David Moyes held public office, he would now be looking at life on the dole-instead of which he is hailed as a great humourist and the saviour of our Club.
Shame on Moyes and all who seek to apologise for him.
If David Moyes held public office, he would now be looking at life on the dole-instead of which he is hailed as a great humourist and the saviour of our Club.
Shame on Moyes and all who seek to apologise for him.
Neil Mobley
20 Posted 24/02/2008 at 13:28:01
20 Posted 24/02/2008 at 13:28:01
As Moyes is soon to become a ?resident? of Kirkby, could I suggest that as part of his pennance, he should be made to attend one of Knowsley Council?s regular ?Diversity Seminars??
There he would be taught how to avoid making ?inappropriate remarks? and begin to have his mind cleansed of all racist thinking.
There he would be taught how to avoid making ?inappropriate remarks? and begin to have his mind cleansed of all racist thinking.
Brian Richardson
21 Posted 24/02/2008 at 13:20:15
21 Posted 24/02/2008 at 13:20:15
Muhammed, you represent everything that is wrong with race relations in the world. Moyes facetiously made reference to the fact that around 90% of Nigerian players are in fact older than the official figures suggest (simply because, as Nelson pointed out, births are often registered several years after the actual birth date).
Where on earth did all this nonsense about "crime and cheats" - when exactly did Moyes mention this? Your aggressive and unnecessary response to this worries me a great deal.
As for "proof" that many Nigerians are in fact older than the official figures suggest, take a look at any government website. Dealing with age discrepancies is a major problem, simply because records have not, in the past, been kept.
http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/research/rir/?action=record.viewrec&gotorec=450136
The link above is from a Canadian government website, but a quick Google search will reveal hundreds of other reports on the problems associated with the age of Nigerians - and others in Africa.
Fortunately, the situation is changing and I don’t expect there to be a problem in years to come.
Your bizarre attack on British culture is frightening. When did Moyes attack Nigerian culture? All he did was make a factual statement - albeit with a wry smile - about the prevalence of age discrepancies in Nigeria. I don’t think Yak will be remotely offended, largely because it was a completely unoffensive comment.
Your comments, Muhammed, were far from inoffensive, and you should be ashamed.
Where on earth did all this nonsense about "crime and cheats" - when exactly did Moyes mention this? Your aggressive and unnecessary response to this worries me a great deal.
As for "proof" that many Nigerians are in fact older than the official figures suggest, take a look at any government website. Dealing with age discrepancies is a major problem, simply because records have not, in the past, been kept.
http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/research/rir/?action=record.viewrec&gotorec=450136
The link above is from a Canadian government website, but a quick Google search will reveal hundreds of other reports on the problems associated with the age of Nigerians - and others in Africa.
Fortunately, the situation is changing and I don’t expect there to be a problem in years to come.
Your bizarre attack on British culture is frightening. When did Moyes attack Nigerian culture? All he did was make a factual statement - albeit with a wry smile - about the prevalence of age discrepancies in Nigeria. I don’t think Yak will be remotely offended, largely because it was a completely unoffensive comment.
Your comments, Muhammed, were far from inoffensive, and you should be ashamed.
Dave Turner
22 Posted 24/02/2008 at 13:44:11
22 Posted 24/02/2008 at 13:44:11
Storm in a tea cup much?
Dry sense of humour maybe, inappropiate though? Well in hindsight looking at some of the reaction maybe, though I don’t think so.
If what he said is ’racism’ then I fear for this world. I also wonder how long it is till I can’t go watch Ross Noble, Jimmy Carr or pretty much any stand up comedian...
Off the cuff little joke, that is it, nothing more, nothing less. If you can’t handle it, fair enough, your choice, but to go on about ’racism this’ and ’apology that’. Grow up and live in the real world. Ron Atkinson after that Chelsea game it wasn’t.
Dry sense of humour maybe, inappropiate though? Well in hindsight looking at some of the reaction maybe, though I don’t think so.
If what he said is ’racism’ then I fear for this world. I also wonder how long it is till I can’t go watch Ross Noble, Jimmy Carr or pretty much any stand up comedian...
Off the cuff little joke, that is it, nothing more, nothing less. If you can’t handle it, fair enough, your choice, but to go on about ’racism this’ and ’apology that’. Grow up and live in the real world. Ron Atkinson after that Chelsea game it wasn’t.
Tony Williams
23 Posted 24/02/2008 at 14:08:10
23 Posted 24/02/2008 at 14:08:10
I actually thought it was funny as did most people apart from the loony PC brigade. To say it was racist is just plain daft and also completely off topic to what the thread was all about.
The author of the first post asked about possible compensation from the Nigerian FA with Yakubu going missing, which in itself is daft and the issue is over and done with and EFC are up £80,000.00 as they fined the Yak.
Great post by Nelson which just shows all the dogooders overreactions.
The author of the first post asked about possible compensation from the Nigerian FA with Yakubu going missing, which in itself is daft and the issue is over and done with and EFC are up £80,000.00 as they fined the Yak.
Great post by Nelson which just shows all the dogooders overreactions.
Richard Porter
24 Posted 24/02/2008 at 14:29:18
24 Posted 24/02/2008 at 14:29:18
Dick,
Why should the Nigerian FA be to blame for Yakubu’s late return. He left their party in Ghana on time- if he decides to go home for a few days how exactly is the FA to blame?
Why should the Nigerian FA be to blame for Yakubu’s late return. He left their party in Ghana on time- if he decides to go home for a few days how exactly is the FA to blame?
John Sreet
25 Posted 24/02/2008 at 14:34:04
25 Posted 24/02/2008 at 14:34:04
This site is getting weirder and weirder, seems it has become the destination of Evertonians with a grudge to share... Racism?!? You pathetic bunch of morons, political correctness gone mad! Oh yeah, and let's get rid of dark chocolate, milky bars and the milky way for that matter, black holes should be renamed colourlesss holes.... "David Moyes made racist remarks" ? the stupidest comments to date, get a life!
John Gilly
26 Posted 24/02/2008 at 14:40:07
26 Posted 24/02/2008 at 14:40:07
Hold on am i missing something!!! Thought Moyes was talking about a country ? not an ethnic group!! How did racism drop into this category??
Come to think about it, Yak does look a bit older than 25, we could sell him at 29(34)!!!
Come to think about it, Yak does look a bit older than 25, we could sell him at 29(34)!!!
Mike Allison
27 Posted 24/02/2008 at 14:53:09
27 Posted 24/02/2008 at 14:53:09
Once again the ignorant are out in force proving that it really is difficult to tell the difference between a ’race’ and a country.
At worst, you could accuse Moyes of being xenophobic, but there is absolutely no issue of ’race’ at all in what he said, and to describe it as such is ridiculous and harmful to attempts to stamp out genuine problems of racism.
If people are going to talk that sort of rubbish about what Moyes said, people will have stopped listening when it comes to actually needing to do something about a serious incident.
At worst, you could accuse Moyes of being xenophobic, but there is absolutely no issue of ’race’ at all in what he said, and to describe it as such is ridiculous and harmful to attempts to stamp out genuine problems of racism.
If people are going to talk that sort of rubbish about what Moyes said, people will have stopped listening when it comes to actually needing to do something about a serious incident.
Jimmy Jones
28 Posted 24/02/2008 at 14:59:54
28 Posted 24/02/2008 at 14:59:54
Let's wrap it up. Its getting to political & out of hand. He will have to make some sort of apology and lets keep this site Everton Football...
Alex Pat
29 Posted 24/02/2008 at 15:13:43
29 Posted 24/02/2008 at 15:13:43
Christ almighty (blasphemous to some eh?)
What is it with these PC morons (offensive to computers?) especially those in local government who cannot govern their own comments (offensive to all local government officers). Moyes ws having a laugh, joke, wittiscism (which is not allowed by the PC brigade of morons) which happened to have a grain of truth in it, like all jokes, put-downs etc... I bet those pathetic PC morons don?t even sing "He?s got red hair and we don?t care" in case it offends someone!! Haa haaa... I?m laughin me bollox off at that one...
What is it with these PC morons (offensive to computers?) especially those in local government who cannot govern their own comments (offensive to all local government officers). Moyes ws having a laugh, joke, wittiscism (which is not allowed by the PC brigade of morons) which happened to have a grain of truth in it, like all jokes, put-downs etc... I bet those pathetic PC morons don?t even sing "He?s got red hair and we don?t care" in case it offends someone!! Haa haaa... I?m laughin me bollox off at that one...
The most dangerous set of people in this country right now are not the terrorists (of any persuasion), not the BNP and their ilk, but the PC brigade who are responsible for quashing the the rights and priveleges of free speech for the common man in this country. They are a blight which has to be eradicated before they turn this country into someting worse than the Orwellian 1984 to which they aspire.
Malcolm Ferrar
30 Posted 24/02/2008 at 15:27:48
30 Posted 24/02/2008 at 15:27:48
It is obvious that Moyes and the Club will need to show some contrition over this matter. Can I suggest that the £80k they recently fined the Yak be paid into a Nigerian charity. In order to facilitate this arrangement, they have only to supply details of a bank account from which the money can be withdrawn and I will ensure that the transaction is facilitated. Thank you goodsirs.
Teddy Draper
31 Posted 24/02/2008 at 16:50:52
31 Posted 24/02/2008 at 16:50:52
Totally bemused by the whole issue, the PC brigade are worming their fucking way into our beloved club now. Scousers are reknowned for our sense of humour, as Bernard Manning said, its just a joke. Please do not let these lunatics run our blue assylum, that's a little joke but no doubt some crazy bastard will pick up on it. Freedom of speech is one of the things we fought for, so Davie lad say what you want and to hell with these type of clowns who criticise you, the country is in the state its in because of the PC brigade, they will be stopping us from farting next.
Ted Edwards
32 Posted 24/02/2008 at 17:39:09
32 Posted 24/02/2008 at 17:39:09
How the hell has this become a race issue? Mr Moyes was critical of a system not a race. Hope he doesn?t complain about a bad call made by a Black ref in the future or that?ll be it...
Michael Kenrick
33 Posted 24/02/2008 at 18:06:18
33 Posted 24/02/2008 at 18:06:18
I have to apologise to you all for this this thread getting hijacked by the racist card nonsense. Turns out that at least two of these messages came from the same source using different names (Sean Berry / Tony Wendle) and providing false e.mail addresses; they now been banned.
Harry Collins
34 Posted 24/02/2008 at 18:12:13
34 Posted 24/02/2008 at 18:12:13
Well said Alex Pat, the PC brigade make me want to puke with their "kiss everybody's arses" attitudes.
It was a tongue-in-cheek joke, no more and no less..
No apologies should be made by Moyes the Club or anybody else.
It was a tongue-in-cheek joke, no more and no less..
No apologies should be made by Moyes the Club or anybody else.
Jason Broome
35 Posted 24/02/2008 at 18:34:07
35 Posted 24/02/2008 at 18:34:07
I am young, I am black & I am astonished.
Why are people getting confused between agism (if at all that), and racism. For me the real racists are those who think black people can’t tell the difference.
DM has brought through more black players in 6 years than every Everton manager combined.
PC brigade until you know what you are talking about... Shut Up!
Why are people getting confused between agism (if at all that), and racism. For me the real racists are those who think black people can’t tell the difference.
DM has brought through more black players in 6 years than every Everton manager combined.
PC brigade until you know what you are talking about... Shut Up!
Michael Kenrick
36 Posted 24/02/2008 at 19:03:27
36 Posted 24/02/2008 at 19:03:27
On further inspection, no less than NINE of the messages on this thread (the most provocative ones) are coming from the same IP address, with presumably the same idiot using nine different names and false e.mails. Somebody is playing silly buggers.
I?m closing this thread.
I?m closing this thread.
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1 Posted 23/02/2008 at 22:42:49
Something like that should do it - plus perhaps an apology to the ageless Yak - that should put them on level terms in recent weeks!